|
|
| Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 (1590976) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
|
| (1590976) | |
Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021 Tuscarora Almanac – November 27, 1910 – The Book of First and Last Runs Manhattan, New York Pennsylvania Tunnel & Terminal Railroad The Hudson River Tunnel is opened connecting the Jersey Meadows with Pennsylvania Station in New York City. The first run is made by a local to Perth Amboy. Service is discontinued on two of the ferry routes operating out of Exchange Place; one to West 23rd Street and the other to Fulton Street, Brooklyn. Sources: “Pennsylvania Railroad Facilities in Color” (Morning Sun Books /2008) by Mr. Robert J. Yanosey “Over & Back” (Fordham University Press /1990) by Mr. Brian J. Cudahy Tuscarora Almanac – November 27, 1926 – The Book of First Runs Bayonne, New Jersey Central Railroad of New Jersey The CNJ places a new bridge in service across Newark Bay connecting Bayonne and Elizabethport, New Jersey. The massive four track structure with the connecting causeways in over three miles long. The center piece is two two-track vertical lift bridges side by side. The north span of the bridge was taken out of service in 1966 after being struck by the freighter S.S. WASHINGTON. The south span remained in service until 1978. Source: Brennan, William J, 1991 Jersey Central Lines In Color, Morning Sun Books Also Included Tuscarora Dispatch No 3: The Orphans of Chrystie Street Preface: Chrystie Street is a thoroughfare on the lower East Side of Manhattan that runs from Houston Street south to Canal Street. It is bordered for all of its length by the Sara D. Roosevelt Park. It’s certainly not the longest street in Manhattan being barely a mile long, if that and yet because of the subway line that was constructed here in the 1960’s the name “Chrystie Street” is known far and wide. Sub-fans from Bora Bora to Walla Walla, and from Perth (Australia not Amboy) to Canarsie have heard of it. Chrystie Street was a play with three acts. The first act began on November 26,1967 with the opening of the subway line connecting the BMT Manhattan Bridge Line with the IND 6th Avenue Line at Broadway-Lafayette Street. A day later the express tracks of the 6th Avenue Line between 34 Street and West 4 Street opened for service. The second act began on July 1, 1968 with the extension of the 6th Avenue Line to 57 Street and the opening of the line between the aforementioned Broadway-Lafayette Street Station and the BMT Centre Street Line at Essex Street. The third and final act came in August of that year and saw the several service adjustments that completed all the new routes and services. The D swapped its daytime Brooklyn terminal with the QB and the QJ .The GG was extended to Church Avenue and the F began rush hour express service on the Smith Street and Culver Lines. The first act is what concerns us here. The opening of the Chrystie Street Subway merged the IND and BMT into a single system known as “Division B.” The IND letter system of route identification was extended to all BMT Lines. It had been used been in use in a limited way on the Southern Section of the BMT since the early sixties. Every subway line including those of the IRT (Division A) was assigned its own color. The November 1967 Edition of the subway map was awash in a kaleidoscope of colors. Almost every subway line had either its route or its’ designation changed. Three of the new lines that were created, the JJ, NX and RJ had very short service lives and because of this are little known. This is compounded by the fact that the subway map frequently had conflicting and incomplete information in the service guide. This is a discussion of those lines. Part 1: The RJ – Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street Line Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, June 28, 1968 The Route: 168th Street – Jamaica Avenue, Queens 95th Street – 4th Avenue, Brooklyn via the Williamsburg Bridge and the Montague Street Tunnel Distance: 21.81 Miles Running Times: 70 Minutes - express 78 minutes – local Stations: 49 Map Color: Red The RJ was listed on the front of the subway map as a “Special Rush Hour Service” which also included the NX, QB and 5 (Thru-Exp). It was a somewhat arbitrary designation as several other rush hour routes were not included. The service guide stated that the RJ ran during the AM rush northbound and the PM rush southbound as a “local” service. The reverse side of the map contained a strip map with the following information: Trains operate during rush hours Mon-Fri. During the PM rush from 6:20 to 6:55 RJ trains operate express along Broadway Brooklyn. Now how could a train that is listed as running in one direction only on the front of the map suddenly start running in both directions by the time it reached the back of the map? More intriguing, how could a train listed as running as a southbound local on the front of the map run as an express on the reverse side. Especially as it would be running express southbound at the same time that the QJ was running express northbound on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. The Broadway Brooklyn Line is a three track line and the center express track can only be used in one direction at a time. As we shall see the RJ ran in both directions in the rush hour and certain trains did run express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. SERVICE DURING THE AM RUSH Northbound service: A total of five trains left 95 Street from 7:46 AM to 8:33 AM. The 7:58 and 8:10 departures ran all the way to 168th Street while the other three terminated at Eastern Parkway. These trains made all local stops. Southbound service: A total of five trains left 168th Street from 5:28 AM to 6:19 AM and ran to 95th Street . The first four trains made all local stops while the last one ran express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line from Eastern Parkway to Essex Street. It was the first southbound express of the day on the line. Note that the southbound service from Jamaica filled a service gap between the last JJ departure to Broad Street at 5:13 AM and the first QJ departure to Brighton Beach at 6:29 AM. SERVICE DURING THE PM RUSH Northbound service: Six trains leave 95th Street from 5:37 PM to 6:25 PM and run to 168th Street. The first five ran express from Essex Street to Eastern Parkway with the 6:14 PM departure closing out the day's express service on the Broadway Brooklyn Line . The last departure at 6:25 PM made all local stops. Note that the northbound service fills a 45 minute gap in northbound QJ service. Southbound service: Five trains leave Eastern Parkway and make all stops to 95th Street. There is no southbound PM rush service from 168th Street. The RJ ended service on Friday, June 28, 1968. Its replacement was an RR Nassau Street – Fourth Avenue Local between Chambers Street and 95th Street via the Montague Street Tunnel. Part 2 : The NX Broadway - Sea Beach Brighton Express Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November, 1967 passengers on the BMT Brighton Line had the choice of three services to Manhattan during the rush hours. There was the “Q” Broadway-Brighton Express between 57th Street – 7th Avenue and Brighton Beach via the north side of the Manhattan Bridge running express on the Broadway Line in Manhattan and the Brighton Line in Brooklyn. There was the “QT” Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel running between Ditmars Boulevard – Astoria and Coney Island (Platform B) via the 60th Street Tunnel and the Montague Street Tunnel. There was also the “M” Nassau Street – Brighton Express which ran in the direction of traffic from Brighton Beach to Chambers Street in the morning rush and from Chambers Street to Coney Island (Platform A) during the evening rush. It ran via the Montague Street Tunnel and ran express on the Brighton Line between Prospect Park and Kings Highway. The most popular of these services was the “Q” as the Broadway Line served both the East and West Sides of Manhattan. It also offered an array of convenient connections; at Broadway – Canal Street with the Centre Street Loop to the Lower East Side and the Financial District, at Union Square with the IRT Lexington Avenue Line and the BMT’s own 14 Street Crosstown Line, at Herald Square with the 6th Avenue IND, at Times Square with the IRT Broadway – 7th Avenue, Flushing and 42 Street Lines and again at Lexington Avenue with the IRT East Side Lines. So popular was this service that whenever the “Q” express was not operating it was the practice to run the Brighton Local via the bridge which was known as the “QB.” The new service plan called for the 6th Avenue “D” train to be the primary Brighton Line service. It would run express on the Brighton Line from about 6AM to 8 PM and enter Manhattan via the tracks on the north side of the bridge and the new Chrystie Street Subway. By contrast to the Broadway Line the 6th Avenue Line ran straight up the center of Manhattan Island and did not have the convenient connections of the Broadway Line. Brighton Line passengers were angered and dismayed at the thought of losing their popular “Broadway via bridge” service and in response to there concerns the Transit Authority proposed two new services both to run from Brighton Beach to 57th Street – 7 Avenue via the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. The new “QB” would run over the more direct route running local on the Brighton Line and then express in Manhattan on the Broadway Line. The other service would run from Brighton Beach south to Coney Island and then north via the express track of the Sea Beach Line and the 4th Avenue Line to Pacific Street. It would then bypass DeKalb Avenue and run express in Manhattan. This would be the “NX.” Both services where scheduled to run five trains each in the direction of peak traffic. The “NX” would operate Monday through Fridays only. Manhattan-bound “NX” trains would leave Brighton Beach from 7:32 AM to 8:21 AM on a twelve minute headway. Brooklyn-bound trains in the PM rush would leave 57th Street – 7th Avenue from 4:47 PM to 5:29 PM, again on a twelve minute headway. The twelve minute headway was determined by the running time on the express tracks of the Sea Beach Line between 8th Avenue and Kings Highway. This was an absolute block. A block being a length of track of defined limits and the absolute means that only one train at a time is permitted in the block. A northbound “NX” train at Kings Highway for instance could not enter the block until the preceding train had cleared the block at 8th Avenue. It was impossible to run service on more frequent intervals and if you wanted to run more “NX” trains you could do it only by extending the service hours. The biggest hurdle that the “NX” faced was operating through the terminal at Coney Island which could delay trains for up to ten minutes. The delays incurred at Coney Island negated whatever advantage was gained from the express run on the Sea Beach Line. The NX – Broadway Express Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, April 12, 1968 The Route: 57th Street – 7th Avenue, Manhattan Brighton Beach, Brooklyn Via the Manhattan Bridge (south side) the 4th Avenue and Sea Beach Lines Distance: 16.52 Miles Running Time: 45 Minutes Stations: 12 Map Color: Light Blue Why did the NX fail? There were several reasons including the aforementioned delay at Coney Island and the absolute block on the Sea Beach express tracks. The service was poorly advertised from the beginning. A brochure entitled “New Subway Routes” was issued just before the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway and it listed many of the new routes;B,D,EE,F,QJ RJ and RR but no mention of the “NX”. Many of the subway cars did not have “NX Broadway Express readings on their rollsigns and displayed “N” signs instead. The TA solution was to have a circular blue medallion with “NX” in white letters on the front of the train. The equipment for the “NX” came from the “N” line. All trains were eight cars long and were a mixture of R-27’s and R-32’s and R-38’s, although not in the same train. (The era of mixing equipment in the same train hadn’t started yet.) Part 3: The EE Queens - Broadway Local First Day of Operation: Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Operation: Friday, August 27, 1976 Hours of Operation: Monday through Friday Approx. 6 AM to 8 PM Terminals: 71st-Continental Avenues, Forest Hills, Queens Canal Street (Broadway), Manhattan (Rush Hour Short Turns) Whitehall Street – South Ferry, Manhattan Route: IND Queens Line between Forest Hills and Queens Plaza, Queens 11th Street Connection and 60th Street Tunnel crossing the East River BMT Broadway Line between Lexington Avenue and Whitehall Street, Manhattan Length of Trip: Forest Hills – Whitehall Street: 13.64 Miles; 48 Minutes Forest Hills – Canal Street: 12.24 Miles; 42 Minutes Marker Lights: Green – Yellow Map Color: Orange Of all the new subway routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway in November, 1967 the “EE” didn’t garner much of the media attention that was focused on some of the other new routes but was a solid and dependable service throughout its nine year run. It was not the first subway route to use the letters “EE” and it was not the first to operate through the 11th Street Connection between the BMT and IND in Queens and yet it became so strongly identified with that line that it is still remembered after over thirty years. History: A roll sign reading for “EE 8th Avenue Local” appeared on the roll-signs of the R-1’s when they were delivered in 1931. It was one of the eight original local routes provided in the initial planning of the IND. It was to be a local service connecting the Queens Boulevard Line in Queens with the 8th Avenue Line in Manhattan via the 53rd Street Tunnel. This first “EE” began operation on April 24, 1937 running between 169 Street, Queens and Church Avenue, Brooklyn via the 53rd Street Tunnel and the Rutgers Street Tunnel during non-rush hours. During the rush hours “E” trains would run between over the same route but would operate express in Queens while “GG” trains provided Queens Boulevard local service. Two months later on July 1, 1937 with the completion of the Crosstown Line the “E” was made a full time service and the “EE” joined the “AA” in temporary retirement. The proposed route the new “EE” would not have been possible prior to 1955. On December 1 of that year the 11th Street (Queens) Connection was opened between the local tracks of the IND Queens Boulevard Line just south of Queens Plaza Station and the BMT 60th Street Tunnel. The connection on the BMT end was made just inside the portal on the Queens side of the East River. This two track connection was signaled “GD1” for the Manhattan-bound track and “GD2” for the Queens-bound track. Initially service over this line was provided by the BMT’s Rt. 1 Brighton Line until 1961. On January 1, 1961 BMT Rt. 2 Fourth Avenue Local took over the service. With the delivery of the R-27 cars in 1960 these trains could also be identified as “RR Broadway-4th Avenue Local.” Service over the 11th Street connection was provided weekdays only from about 6 AM to 7 PM. The opening of the Chrystie Street Line would result in the functional merging of the BMT and IND divisions into a single entity to be known as “Division B.” Virtually every route of the BMT and IND would be changed, discontinued, re-routed or re-designated. There would also be several new routes, including the subject of this chapter, the “EE.” The main Brighton Local service, (QB/QT) which had previously run to Astoria was to be re-routed up the Nassau Street Line and the Williamsburg Bridge to Jamaica. The Fourth Avenue Local which had run to Forest Hills on weekdays from 6AM to 7PM and to 57th Street – 7th Avenue at all other times would now be extended to Astoria. A new service was now needed to run between Forest Hills and Whitehall Street . This new service would be designated “EE” and be called identified as the Broadway Local or Queens-Broadway Local. An early proposal was to call the new service “QM” for “Queens-Manhattan.” A fleet of 176 R-1/9’s was assigned to the “EE” which needed a maximum of 22 eight cars trains during the rush hours. Most of the R-1/9’s came from the 1100-1399 group and had the proper route signs which would read “EE Via Broadway” others however did not and which decals with black letters reading “VIA BWAY” were pasted over the roll sign readings. The “VIA” and the “BWAY” were printed on top of each other in full size letters so it was impossible to fit the complete reading into the roll sign box. Some R-1/9’s simply carried the original “EE 8th Avenue Local” readings. As time went on other car classes showed up on the “EE” the R-38’s and R-40’s were there used on and off in 1969. The March 1970 car assignment called for 106 R-1/9s and 104 R-16’s though by October 1970 this was pared back to 88 R-1/9’s and 88 R-16’s. The R-1/9s’ were ordered off the “EE” by November 13, 1970 with the R-16’s assuming most of the service supplemented by R-38’s and R-40M’s. In the middle 1970’s the subway system was in a state of virtual collapse. Derailments and fires occurred on a nearly weekly basis while virtually every surface on the subway system; including tunnels, stations and cars were covered with graffiti. Punks and hoodlums roamed the subway system and made it unsafe to ride outside of the peak hours. Riders deserted the subway in droves for the new express buses or if they did ride they did so only during the rush hours. Money for repairs was in short supply as well so the Transit Authority decided on severe service cutbacks that included the complete elimination of the “EE” and the “KK.” The last day of operation was set for Friday, August 27, 1976. The last northbound train, left from Whitehall Street at the end of the PM rush with eight R-16’s; 6432,6441,6416,6491,6398,6430,6419,6482. The last southbound “EE” arrived at Canal Street at 8:20PM and had R-38’s 4031-0, 4087-6, 4066-7 and 4050-1. The “EE” replacement was a few rush hour only “N” trains running southbound from Forest Hills in the AM and northbound from Whitehall Street in the PM. Part 4 The JJ-14 : Broadway - Brooklyn Local and JJ - 15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local Of all the routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November 1967 no one has caused more confusion than the route that was known as the "JJ." The New York City Subway Map and Guide issued at the time imparts the following information in the service guide section. The "JJ" (no route name) will operate during the AM rush hours between 168 Street - Jamaica Avenue and Canal Street - Centre Street with "skip stop "B" Stations bound." During the PM Rush service will operate between Crescent Street or Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn and Canal Street in Manhattan. At all other time service will operate between 168 Street - Jamaica and Broad Street. The strip map on the reverse side of the map lists the "JJ" as making all stops between 168 Street and Broad Street with Atlantic Avenue added with an asterisk and some additional information. Monday through Friday during rush hours some trains operate between Atlantic Avenue and Rockaway Parkway via the Canarsie Line. Monday thru Friday during rush hours "JJ" trains terminate at Canal Street. In PM rush hours "JJ" train do not operate between Crescent and 168 Streets. Skip-stop service during the AM rush, 168 Street to Eastern Parkway. Nowhere on the map does it tell you which stops are made and which are skipped. Adding to the confusion was the fact that there were two different systems of route identification in use on the BMT Division at the time. The older system used route numbers and was introduced by at least 1925 while the newer system of route letters began in 1960 with the delivery of the R - 27 cars. The "JJ" was actually two separate services operating at different times between different terminals (for the most part) and using two separate fleets of equipment. One "JJ" covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 14 Broadway- Brooklyn Local while the other covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 15 Jamaica Local. Hereafter I will refer to these services as the JJ-14 and JJ-15 respectively. Chapter 1: The JJ-14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local First Day of Service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Service: Friday, June 28, 1968 Map Color: Orange This service was simply a continuation of the No.14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local which ran during weekday rush hours. There was no change in the route or scheduling. It was a complicated service and much has changed since 1967 which is why I have listed a full description of the terminals. The mileages are as accurate as I can make them and the running time are approximate. Terminals: 168th Street - 168th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens 111th Street - 111th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens Crescent Street - Crescent Street - Fulton Street, Brooklyn Eastern Parkway - Eastern Parkway - Broadway, Brooklyn Metropolitan Avenue - Metropolitan Avenue / Myrtle Avenue Line, Queens Rockaway Parkway - Rockaway Parkway / Canarsie, Brooklyn Atlantic Avenue - Atlantic Avenue - Snediker Avenue, Brooklyn Canal Street - Canal Street - Centre Street, Manhattan Services: 1) 168th Street - Canal Street Lv. 168 St: 7:08 - 8:24 AM ("B" Skip Stop) Lv. Canal Street: 6:58 - 7:38 AM Mileage: 12.65 Running Time: 40-44 Minutes Markers: White - Green 2) 111th Street - Canal Street Lv. 111 St: 6:26, 6:56, 7:07 AM Mileage: 10.28 Running Time: 38 Minutes Markers: White - Green 3) Crescent St. - Canal Street Lv. Crescent St: 5:21, 5: 37, 5:55, 6:12 PM Lv. Canal Street: 4:44, 5:00, 5:16, 5:33 PM Mileage: 7:81 Running Time: 27 Minutes Markers: Green - Yellow 4) Eastern Parkway - Canal Street Lv. Eastern Parkway: 3:05 - 3:43, 4:25 PM Lv. Canal Street: 7:48, 8:42 - 10:18 AM Mileage: 5.96 Running Time: 20 Minutes Markers: White - White 5) Metropolitan Av. - Canal Street Lv. Canal Street: 8:04 AM Mileage: 6.72 Running Time: 24 Minutes Markers: Green - Red 6) Atlantic Avenue - Canal Street Lv. Atlantic Avenue: 8:50 - 9:46 AM, 3:50 - 5:16 PM Lv. Canal Street: 8:11 - 9:12 AM, 3:30 - 4:36 and 5:42 - 6:44 PM Mileage: 6.00 Running Time: 22 Minutes Markers: Green - White 7) Rockaway Pkwy. - Canal Street Lv. Rockaway Parkway: 6:21, 6:41, 6:51 AM, 5:27, 5:43, 6:01 PM Lv. Canal Street: 7:55 AM, 4:52, 5:08, 5:25 PM Mileage: 8.27 Running Time: 30 Minutes Markers: Yellow - Red "B" Skip-Stop Service: JJ-14 trains leaving from 168th Street during the AM Rush operated skip-stop service to Eastern Parkway stopping at 168th Street, 160th Street, Sutphin Boulevard, Queens Boulevard, Metropolitan Avenue, 102nd Street, Elderts Lane, Cypress Hills, Norwood Avenue, Van Siclen Avenue, Alabama Avenue and Eastern Parkway. Equipment and Train Lengths: The original assignment was AB Standards arranged in six cars trains. 84 cars were required for the AM Rush while 48 were needed for the PM Rush. Starting on or about May 9, 1968 R-1/9's from the Queens IND were placed in service gradually replacing the AB's. The roster numbers were 1527 to 1802 with some exceptions. The plan was to have all R-1/9's in service by the time the Williamsburg Bridge Connection opened. The last day of service was Friday, June 28, 1968. The JJ-14 replacement was the KK Jamaica - Bway / Bklyn - 6 Avenue Local. Chapter 2: The JJ-15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local First Day of Service: Sunday, November 26, 1967 Last Day of Service L Sunday, June 30, 1968 Map Color: Orange The JJ-15 was a continuation of the No. 15 Jamaica Local. Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line No.15 trains had run between 168th Street - Jamaica and Broad Street at all times. During the rush hours these trains ran as Jamaica Expresses but at all other times they were locals. After Chrystie Street service between 168 Street and Broad Street would be provided by QJ and RJ trains on weekdays from about 6 AM to 8 PM. The JJ-15 would operate at all other times. Services: 1) 168th Street - Broad Street Monday - Friday Lv. 168th Street 7:32 PM - 5:13 AM Lv. Broad Street 8:28 PM - 6:12 AM Saturday - Sunday - All Times Mileage: 13.66 Running Time: 41 Minutes Markers: Green - Green Equipment and Train Lengths The JJ-15 operated from a common equipment pool with the QB, QJ, and RJ. This pool consisted of R-16, R-27, R-30, R-30 A and for a short time R-11's. Train length was 6 cars in the evening and on weekends, 4 cars during the owl hours and on Sunday mornings. It should be noted that in the days and weeks after the opening of the Chrystie Street Line there was a great deal of confusion and car assignments were not always followed. The 57th Street - 6th Avenue Station and the Williamsburg Bridge Connection both opened on Monday, July 1, 1968. The JJ-15 schedule not affected by this but trains would now be designated as QJ's whether they terminated at Broad Street or Coney Island. Part 5: The Rise and Fall of the “SS” Shuttle Routes One positive consequence of the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway was that all subway routes would now be identified by an alphabetical or numerical designation. Prior to this some trains carried numbers, some letters and others only a name. Depending on the equipment used there might be three different readings for a single route. The subway maps did not always used the same nomenclature as the subway cars. This was especially true of the shuttle routes of which there were seven. The IRT Division had four. The 42nd Street Shuttle between Times Square and Grand Central which ran at all times. The Bowling Green Shuttle between Bowling Green and South Ferry which ran on weekdays from about 6 AM to 7 PM. There was the No.3 145th Street Shuttle that ran along Lenox Avenue between 145th and 135th Streets. Lastly there was the No. 5 Dyre Avenue Shuttle in the Bronx between Dyre Avenue and East 180th Street which ran on weekdays from about 8 PM to 6 AM and on weekends from about 9 AM to 8 AM (approx.) The BMT had the No. 5 Culver Shuttle between 9th Avenue and Ditmas Avenue and the No. 7 Franklin Avenue Shuttle between Franklin Avenue and Prospect Park. The IND Division had the “HH” Rockaway Shuttles between Euclid Avenue and Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway. Weekday midday and evening and on weekends these trains ran between Broad Channel and Rockaway Park. Effective on Sunday, November 26, 1967 the six IRT and BMT shuttles would now be designated as “SS” Shuttle. The Rockaway Shuttles continued to carry “HH” signage. The first subway cars to have an “SS” reading on the roll-signs were the R-32A’s (3350-3649) delivered in 1964. The first subway map to show the “SS” designation was the Chrystie Street edition issued in November 1967. Each route would have its own color: SS – Dyre Av Shuttle – Green SS – Bowling Green – South Ferry Shuttle – Dark Blue SS – 145th Street Shuttle – Black SS – 42nd Street Shuttle – Light Blue SS – Culver Shuttle – Orange SS – Franklin Shuttle – Dark Yellow or Buff A new station known as 148th Street-Lenox Terminal opened on May 13, 1968 and at this time the 145th Street Shuttle became the Lenox Terminal Shuttle. The next subway map had to have been issued after August 1968 as it reflects the service changes of July and August. All shuttle trains would now be identified by the dark green color. The nonmenclature was changed somewhat: SS – E.180th St. – Dyre Av. Shuttle SS – Bowling Green – South Ferry Shuttle SS – Lenox Terminal Shuttle SS – Times Sq. – Grand Central Shuttle SS – 9th Av. – Ditmas Av. Shuttle SS – Prospect Pk. – Franklin Av. Shuttle The Myrtle Avenue El was closed south of Broadway on October 4, 1969. The “M” would now operate between Queens and Manhattan on weekdays from 6 AM to 7 PM. At other times a shuttle would run between Metropolitan Avenue and Myrtle Avenue-Broadway (lower level). This would be designated as the “SS – Myrtle Avenue Shuttle” and it used the dark green color. There were now seven routes using the same designation. This would continue unchanged until August 1972 when the first of Vignelli designed subway maps were produced. There were several changes made. The Lenox Terminal, Dyre Avenue and Myrtle Avenue shuttles were folded back into their parent routes. The shuttles continued to operate but now born the designations of 3, 5 and M respectively. There were now four “SS”’ routes. The Culver Shuttle was discontinued on the night of May 10-11, 1975. We bid farewell to the Bowling Green Shuttle in the early morning hours of February 13, 1977. Now there were just two “SS” routes. They would carry on until June 1979 when the Diamond Jubilee Edition of the subway map was issued. Hereafter both the 42nd Street and Franklin Avenue Shuttles would be identified by the letter “S’ which they use to the present time. (2020). Tuscarora Almanac – November 27, 1910 – The Book of First and Last Runs Manhattan, New York Pennsylvania Tunnel & Terminal Railroad The Hudson River Tunnel is opened connecting the Jersey Meadows with Pennsylvania Station in New York City. The first run is made by a local to Perth Amboy. Service is discontinued on two of the ferry routes operating out of Exchange Place; one to West 23rd Street and the other to Fulton Street, Brooklyn. Sources: “Pennsylvania Railroad Facilities in Color” (Morning Sun Books /2008) by Mr. Robert J. Yanosey “Over & Back” (Fordham University Press /1990) by Mr. Brian J. Cudahy Tuscarora Almanac – November 27, 1926 – The Book of First Runs Bayonne, New Jersey Central Railroad of New Jersey The CNJ places a new bridge in service across Newark Bay connecting Bayonne and Elizabethport, New Jersey. The massive four track structure with the connecting causeways in over three miles long. The center piece is two two-track vertical lift bridges side by side. The north span of the bridge was taken out of service in 1966 after being struck by the freighter S.S. WASHINGTON. The south span remained in service until 1978. Source: Brennan, William J, 1991 Jersey Central Lines In Color, Morning Sun Books Also Included Tuscarora Despatch No 3: The Orphans of Chrystie Street Preface: Chrystie Street is a thoroughfare on the lower East Side of Manhattan that runs from Houston Street south to Canal Street. It is bordered for all of its length by the Sara D. Roosevelt Park. It’s certainly not the longest street in Manhattan being barely a mile long, if that and yet because of the subway line that was constructed here in the 1960’s the name “Chrystie Street” is known far and wide. Sub-fans from Bora Bora to Walla Walla, and from Perth (Australia not Amboy) to Canarsie have heard of it. Chrystie Street was a play with three acts. The first act began on November 26,1967 with the opening of the subway line connecting the BMT Manhattan Bridge Line with the IND 6th Avenue Line at Broadway-Lafayette Street. A day later the express tracks of the 6th Avenue Line between 34 Street and West 4 Street opened for service. The second act began on July 1, 1968 with the extension of the 6th Avenue Line to 57 Street and the opening of the line between the aforementioned Broadway-Lafayette Street Station and the BMT Centre Street Line at Essex Street. The third and final act came in August of that year and saw the several service adjustments that completed all the new routes and services. The D swapped its daytime Brooklyn terminal with the QB and the QJ .The GG was extended to Church Avenue and the F began rush hour express service on the Smith Street and Culver Lines. The first act is what concerns us here. The opening of the Chrystie Street Subway merged the IND and BMT into a single system known as “Division B.” The IND letter system of route identification was extended to all BMT Lines. It had been used been in use in a limited way on the Southern Section of the BMT since the early sixties. Every subway line including those of the IRT (Division A) was assigned its own color. The November 1967 Edition of the subway map was awash in a kaleidoscope of colors. Almost every subway line had either its route or its’ designation changed. Three of the new lines that were created, the JJ,NX and RJ had very short service lives and because of this are little known . This is compounded by the fact that the subway map frequently had conflicting and incomplete information in the service guide. This is a discussion of those lines. Part 1 : The RJ – Fourth Avenue-Nassau Street Line Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, June 28, 1968 The Route: 168th Street – Jamaica Avenue, Queens 95th Street – 4th Avenue, Brooklyn via the Williamsburg Bridge and the Montague Street Tunnel Distance: 21.81 Miles Running Times: 70 Minutes - express 78 minutes – local Stations: 49 Map Color: Red The RJ was listed on the front of the subway map as a “Special Rush Hour Service” which also included the NX, QB and 5 (Thru-Exp). It was a somewhat arbitrary designation as several other rush hour routes were not included. The service guide stated that the RJ ran during the AM rush northbound and the PM rush southbound as a “local” service. The reverse side of the map contained a strip map with the following information: Trains operate during rush hours Mon-Fri. During the PM rush from 6:20 to 6:55 RJ trains operate express along Broadway Brooklyn. Now how could a train that is listed as running in one direction only on the front of the map suddenly start running in both directions by the time it reached the back of the map? More intriguing, how could a train listed as running as a southbound local on the front of the map run as an express on the reverse side. Especially as it would be running express southbound at the same time that the QJ was running express northbound on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. The Broadway Brooklyn Line is a three track line and the center express track can only be used in one direction at a time. As we shall see the RJ ran in both directions in the rush hour and certain trains did run express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line. SERVICE DURING THE AM RUSH Northbound service: A total of five trains left 95 Street from 7:46 AM to 8:33 AM. The 7:58 and 8:10 departures ran all the way to 168th Street while the other three terminated at Eastern Parkway. These trains made all local stops. Southbound service: A total of five trains left 168th Street from 5:28 AM to 6:19 AM and ran to 95th Street . The first four trains made all local stops while the last one ran express on the Broadway Brooklyn Line from Eastern Parkway to Essex Street. It was the first southbound express of the day on the line. Note that the southbound service from Jamaica filled a service gap between the last JJ departure to Broad Street at 5:13 AM and the first QJ departure to Brighton Beach at 6:29 AM. SERVICE DURING THE PM RUSH Northbound service: Six trains leave 95th Street from 5:37 PM to 6:25 PM and run to 168th Street. The first five ran express from Essex Street to Eastern Parkway with the 6:14 PM departure closing out the day's express service on the Broadway Brooklyn Line . The last departure at 6:25 PM made all local stops. Note that the northbound service fills a 45 minute gap in northbound QJ service. Southbound service: Five trains leave Eastern Parkway and make all stops to 95th Street. There is no southbound PM rush service from 168th Street. The RJ ended service on Friday, June 28, 1968. Its replacement was an RR Nassau Street – Fourth Avenue Local between Chambers Street and 95th Street via the Montague Street Tunnel. Part 2 : The NX Broadway - Sea Beach Brighton Express Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November, 1967 passengers on the BMT Brighton Line had the choice of three services to Manhattan during the rush hours. There was the “Q” Broadway-Brighton Express between 57th Street – 7th Avenue and Brighton Beach via the north side of the Manhattan Bridge running express on the Broadway Line in Manhattan and the Brighton Line in Brooklyn. There was the “QT” Broadway-Brighton Local via Tunnel running between Ditmars Boulevard – Astoria and Coney Island (Platform B) via the 60th Street Tunnel and the Montague Street Tunnel. There was also the “M” Nassau Street – Brighton Express which ran in the direction of traffic from Brighton Beach to Chambers Street in the morning rush and from Chambers Street to Coney Island (Platform A) during the evening rush. It ran via the Montague Street Tunnel and ran express on the Brighton Line between Prospect Park and Kings Highway. The most popular of these services was the “Q” as the Broadway Line served both the East and West Sides of Manhattan. It also offered an array of convenient connections; at Broadway – Canal Street with the Centre Street Loop to the Lower East Side and the Financial District, at Union Square with the IRT Lexington Avenue Line and the BMT’s own 14 Street Crosstown Line, at Herald Square with the 6th Avenue IND, at Times Square with the IRT Broadway – 7th Avenue, Flushing and 42 Street Lines and again at Lexington Avenue with the IRT East Side Lines. So popular was this service that whenever the “Q” express was not operating it was the practice to run the Brighton Local via the bridge which was known as the “QB.” The new service plan called for the 6th Avenue “D” train to be the primary Brighton Line service. It would run express on the Brighton Line from about 6AM to 8 PM and enter Manhattan via the tracks on the north side of the bridge and the new Chrystie Street Subway. By contrast to the Broadway Line the 6th Avenue Line ran straight up the center of Manhattan Island and did not have the convenient connections of the Broadway Line. Brighton Line passengers were angered and dismayed at the thought of losing their popular “Broadway via bridge” service and in response to there concerns the Transit Authority proposed two new services both to run from Brighton Beach to 57th Street – 7 Avenue via the south side of the Manhattan Bridge. The new “QB” would run over the more direct route running local on the Brighton Line and then express in Manhattan on the Broadway Line. The other service would run from Brighton Beach south to Coney Island and then north via the express track of the Sea Beach Line and the 4th Avenue Line to Pacific Street. It would then bypass DeKalb Avenue and run express in Manhattan. This would be the “NX.” Both services where scheduled to run five trains each in the direction of peak traffic. The “NX” would operate Monday through Fridays only. Manhattan-bound “NX” trains would leave Brighton Beach from 7:32 AM to 8:21 AM on a twelve minute headway. Brooklyn-bound trains in the PM rush would leave 57th Street – 7th Avenue from 4:47 PM to 5:29 PM, again on a twelve minute headway. The twelve minute headway was determined by the running time on the express tracks of the Sea Beach Line between 8th Avenue and Kings Highway. This was an absolute block . A block being a length of track of defined limits and the absolute means that only one train at a time is permitted in the block. A northbound “NX” train at Kings Highway for instance could not enter the block until the preceding train had cleared the block at 8th Avenue. It was impossible to run service on more frequent intervals and if you wanted to run more “NX” trains you could do it only by extending the service hours. The biggest hurdle that the “NX” faced was operating through the terminal at Coney Island which could delay trains for up to ten minutes. The delays incurred at Coney Island negated whatever advantage was gained from the express run on the Sea Beach Line. The NX – Broadway Express Began service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Ended service: Friday, April 12, 1968 The Route: 57th Street – 7th Avenue, Manhattan Brighton Beach, Brooklyn Via the Manhattan Bridge (south side) the 4th Avenue and Sea Beach Lines Distance: 16.52 Miles Running Time: 45 Minutes Stations: 12 Map Color: Light Blue Why did the NX fail? There were several reasons including the aforementioned delay at Coney Island and the absolute block on the Sea Beach express tracks. The service was poorly advertised from the beginning. A brochure entitled “New Subway Routes” was issued just before the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway and it listed many of the new routes;B,D,EE,F,QJ RJ and RR but no mention of the “NX”. Many of the subway cars did not have “NX Broadway Express readings on their rollsigns and displayed “N” signs instead. The TA solution was to have a circular blue medallion with “NX” in white letters on the front of the train. The equipment for the “NX” came from the “N” line. All trains were eight cars long and were a mixture of R-27’s and R-32’s and R-38’s, although not in the same train. (The era of mixing equipment in the same train hadn’t started yet.) Part 3 : The EE Queens - Broadway Local First Day of Operation: Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Operation: Friday, August 27, 1976 Hours of Operation: Monday through Friday Approx. 6 AM to 8 PM Terminals: 71st-Continental Avenues, Forest Hills, Queens Canal Street (Broadway), Manhattan (Rush Hour Short Turns) Whitehall Street – South Ferry, Manhattan Route: IND Queens Line between Forest Hills and Queens Plaza, Queens 11th Street Connection and 60th Street Tunnel crossing the East River BMT Broadway Line between Lexington Avenue and Whitehall Street, Manhattan Length of Trip : Forest Hills – Whitehall Street : 13.64 Miles ; 48 Minutes Forest Hills – Canal Street : 12.24 Miles ; 42 Minutes Marker Lights: Green – Yellow Map Color : Orange Of all the new subway routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway in November, 1967 the “EE” didn’t garner much of the media attention that was focused on some of the other new routes but is was a solid and dependable service throughout its nine year run. It was not the first subway route to use the letters “EE” and it was not the first to operate through the 11th Street Connection between the BMT and IND in Queens and yet it became so strongly identified with that line that it is still remembered after over thirty years. History: A roll sign reading for “EE 8th Avenue Local” appeared on the roll-signs of the R-1’s when they were delivered in 1931. It was one of the eight original local routes provided in the initial planning of the IND. It was to be a local service connecting the Queens Boulevard Line in Queens with the 8th Avenue Line in Manhattan via the 53rd Street Tunnel. This first “EE” began operation on April 24, 1937 running between 169 Street, Queens and Church Avenue, Brooklyn via the 53rd Street Tunnel and the Rutgers Street Tunnel during non-rush hours. During the rush hours “E” trains would run between over the same route but would operate express in Queens while “GG” trains provided Queens Boulevard local service. Two months later on July 1, 1937 with the completion of the Crosstown Line the “E” was made a full time service and the “EE” joined the “AA” in temporary retirement. The proposed route the new “EE” would not have been possible prior to 1955. On December 1 of that year the 11th Street (Queens) Connection was opened between the local tracks of the IND Queens Boulevard Line just south of Queens Plaza Station and the BMT 60th Street Tunnel. The connection on the BMT end was made just inside the portal on the Queens side of the East River. This two track connection was signaled “GD1” for the Manhattan-bound track and “GD2” for the Queens-bound track. Initially service over this line was provided by the BMT’s Rt. 1 Brighton Line until 1961. On January 1, 1961 BMT Rt. 2 Fourth Avenue Local took over the service. With the delivery of the R-27 cars in 1960 these trains could also be identified as “RR Broadway-4th Avenue Local.” Service over the 11th Street connection was provided weekdays only from about 6 AM to 7 PM. The opening of the Chrystie Street Line would result in the functional merging of the BMT and IND divisions into a single entity to be known as “Division B.” Virtually every route of the BMT and IND would be changed, discontinued, re-routed or re-designated. There would also be several new routes, including the subject of this chapter, the “EE.” The main Brighton Local service, (QB/QT) which had previously run to Astoria was to be re-routed up the Nassau Street Line and the Williamsburg Bridge to Jamaica. The Fourth Avenue Local which had run to Forest Hills on weekdays from 6AM to 7PM and to 57th Street – 7th Avenue at all other times would now be extended to Astoria. A new service was now needed to run between Forest Hills and Whitehall Street . This new service would be designated “EE” and be called identified as the Broadway Local or Queens-Broadway Local. An early proposal was to call the new service “QM” for “Queens-Manhattan.” A fleet of 176 R-1/9’s was assigned to the “EE” which needed a maximum of 22 eight cars trains during the rush hours. Most of the R-1/9’s came from the 1100-1399 group and had the proper route signs which would read “EE Via Broadway” others however did not and which decals with black letters reading “VIA BWAY” were pasted over the roll sign readings. The “VIA” and the “BWAY” were printed on top of each other in full size letters so it was impossible to fit the complete reading into the roll sign box. Some R-1/9’s simply carried the original “EE 8th Avenue Local” readings. As time went on other car classes showed up on the “EE” the R-38’s and R-40’s were there used on and off in 1969. The March 1970 car assignment called for 106 R-1/9s and 104 R-16’s though by October 1970 this was pared back to 88 R-1/9’s and 88 R-16’s. The R-1/9s’ were ordered off the “EE” by November 13, 1970 with the R-16’s assuming most of the service supplemented by R-38’s and R-40M’s. In the middle 1970’s the subway system was in a state of virtual collapse. Derailments and fires occurred on a nearly weekly basis while virtually every surface on the subway system; including tunnels, stations and cars were covered with graffiti. Punks and hoodlums roamed the subway system and made it unsafe to ride outside of the peak hours. Riders deserted the subway in droves for the new express buses or if they did ride they did so only during the rush hours. Money for repairs was in short supply as well so the Transit Authority decided on severe service cutbacks that included the complete elimination of the “EE” and the “KK.” The last day of operation was set for Friday, August 27, 1976. The last northbound train, left from Whitehall Street at the end of the PM rush with eight R-16’s; 6432,6441,6416,6491,6398,6430,6419,6482. The last southbound “EE” arrived at Canal Street at 8:20PM and had R-38’s 4031-0, 4087-6, 4066-7 and 4050-1. The “EE” replacement was a few rush hour only “N” trains running southbound from Forest Hills in the AM and northbound from Whitehall Street in the PM. Part 4 The JJ-14 : Broadway - Brooklyn Local and JJ - 15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local Of all the routes spawned by the opening of the Chrystie Street Line in November 1967 no one has caused more confusion than the route that was know as the "JJ." The New York City Subway Map and Guide issued at the time imparts the following information in the service guide section. The "JJ" (no route name) will operate during the AM rush hours between 168 Street - Jamaica Avenue and Canal Street - Centre Street with "skip stop "B" Stations bound." During the PM Rush service will operate between Crescent Street or Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn and Canal Street in Manhattan. At all other time service will operate between 168 Street - Jamaica and Broad Street. The strip map on the reverse side of the map lists the "JJ" as making all stops between 168 Street and Broad Street with Atlantic Avenue added with an asterisk and some additional information. Monday through Friday during rush hours some trains operate between Atlantic Avenue and Rockaway Parkway via the Canarsie Line. Monday thru Friday during rush hours "JJ" trains terminate at Canal Street. In PM rush hours "JJ" train do not operate between Crescent and 168 Streets. Skip-stop service during the AM rush, 168 Street to Eastern Parkway. Nowhere on the map does it tell you which stops are made and which are skipped. Adding to the confusion was the fact that there were two different systems of route identification in use on the BMT Division at the time. The older system used route numbers and was introduced by at least 1925 while the newer system of route letters began in 1960 with the delivery of the R - 27 cars. The "JJ" was actually two separate services operating at different times between different terminals (for the most part) and using two separate fleets of equipment. One "JJ" covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 14 Broadway- Brooklyn Local while the other covered the services of the former BMT Route No. 15 Jamaica Local. Hereafter I will refer to these services as the JJ-14 and JJ-15 respectively. Chapter 1 : The JJ-14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local First Day of Service: Monday, November 27, 1967 Last Day of Service: Friday, June 28, 1968 Map Color: Orange This service was simply a continuation of the No.14 Broadway - Brooklyn Local which ran during weekday rush hours. There was no change in the route or scheduling. It was a complicated service and much has changed since 1967 which is why I have listed a full description of the terminals. The mileages are as accurate as I can make them and the running time are approximate. Terminals: 168th Street - 168th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens 111th Street - 111th Street - Jamaica Avenue, Queens Crescent Street - Crescent Street - Fulton Street, Brooklyn Eastern Parkway - Eastern Parkway - Broadway, Brooklyn Metropolitan Avenue - Metropolitan Avenue / Myrtle Avenue Line, Queens Rockaway Parkway - Rockaway Parkway / Canarsie, Brooklyn Atlantic Avenue - Atlantic Avenue - Snediker Avenue, Brooklyn Canal Street - Canal Street - Centre Street, Manhattan Services: 1) 168th Street - Canal Street Lv. 168 St: 7:08 - 8:24 AM ("B" Skip Stop) Lv. Canal Street: 6:58 - 7:38 AM Mileage: 12.65 Running Time: 40-44 Minutes Markers: White - Green 2) 111th Street - Canal Street Lv. 111 St: 6:26, 6:56, 7:07 AM Mileage: 10.28 Running Time: 38 Minutes Markers: White - Green 3) Crescent St. - Canal Street Lv. Crescent St: 5:21, 5: 37, 5:55, 6:12 PM Lv. Canal Street: 4:44, 5:00, 5:16, 5:33 PM Mileage: 7:81 Running Time: 27 Minutes Markers: Green - Yellow 4) Eastern Parkway - Canal Street Lv. Eastern Parkway: 3:05 - 3:43, 4:25 PM Lv. Canal Street: 7:48, 8:42 - 10:18 AM Mileage: 5.96 Running Time: 20 Minutes Markers: White - White 5) Metropolitan Av. - Canal Street Lv. Canal Street: 8:04 AM Mileage: 6.72 Running Time: 24 Minutes Markers: Green - Red 6) Atlantic Avenue - Canal Street Lv. Atlantic Avenue: 8:50 - 9:46 AM , 3:50 - 5:16 PM Lv. Canal Street: 8:11 - 9:12 AM, 3:30 - 4:36 and 5:42 - 6:44 PM Mileage: 6.00 Running Time: 22 Minutes Markers: Green - White 7) Rockaway Pkwy. - Canal Street Lv. Rockaway Parkway: 6:21, 6:41, 6:51 AM, 5:27, 5:43, 6:01 PM Lv. Canal Street: 7:55 AM, 4:52, 5:08, 5:25 PM Mileage: 8.27 Running Time: 30 Minutes Markers: Yellow - Red "B" Skip-Stop Service: JJ-14 trains leaving from 168th Street during the AM Rush operated skip-stop service to Eastern Parkway stopping at 168th Street, 160th Street, Sutphin Boulevard, Queens Boulevard, Metropolitan Avenue, 102nd Street, Elderts Lane, Cypress Hills, Norwood Avenue, Van Siclen Avenue, Alabama Avenue and Eastern Parkway. Equipment and Train Lengths: The original assignment was AB Standards arranged in six cars trains. 84 cars were required for the AM Rush while 48 were needed for the PM Rush. Starting on or about May 9, 1968 R-1/9's from the Queens IND were placed in service gradually replacing the AB's. The roster numbers were 1527 to 1802 with some exceptions. The plan was to have all R-1/9's in service by the time the Williamsburg Bridge Connection opened. The last day of service was Friday, June 28, 1968. The JJ-14 replacement was the KK Jamaica - Bway / Bklyn - 6 Avenue Local. Chapter 2 : The JJ-15 Jamaica - Nassau Street Local First Day of Service: Sunday, November 26, 1967 Last Day of Service L Sunday, June 30, 1968 Map Color: Orange The JJ-15 was a continuation of the No. 15 Jamaica Local. Prior to the opening of the Chrystie Street Line No.15 trains had run between 168th Street - Jamaica and Broad Street at all times. During the rush hours these trains ran as Jamaica Expresses but at all other times they were locals. After Chrystie Street service between 168 Street and Broad Street would be provided by QJ and RJ trains on weekdays from about 6 AM to 8 PM. The JJ-15 would operate at all other times. Services: 1) 168th Street - Broad Street Monday - Friday Lv. 168th Street 7:32 PM - 5:13 AM Lv. Broad Street 8:28 PM - 6:12 AM Saturday - Sunday - All Times Mileage : 13.66 Running Time : 41 Minutes Markers: Green - Green Equipment and Train Lengths The JJ-15 operated from a common equipment pool with the QB, QJ, and RJ. This pool consisted of R-16, R-27, R-30, R-30 A and for a short time R-11's. Train length was 6 cars in the evening and on weekends, 4 cars during the owl hours and on Sunday mornings. It should be noted that in the days and weeks after the opening of the Chrystie Street Line there was a great deal of confusion and car assignments were not always followed. The 57th Street - 6th Avenue Station and the Williamsburg Bridge Connection both opened on Monday, July 1, 1968. The JJ-15 schedule not affected by this but trains would now be designated as QJ's whether they terminated at Broad Street or Coney Island. Part 5: The Rise and Fallof the “SS” Shuttle Routes One positive consequence of the opening of the Chrystie Street Subway was that all subway routes would now be identified by an alphabetical or numerical designation. Prior to this some trains carried numbers, some letters and others only a name. Depending on the equipment used there might be three different readings for a single route. The subway maps did not always used the same nomenclature as the subway cars. This was especially true of the shuttle routes of which there were seven. The IRT Division had four. The 42nd Street Shuttle between Times Square and Grand Central which ran at all times. The Bowling Green Shuttle between Bowling Green and South Ferry which ran on weekdays from about 6 AM to 7 PM. There was the No.3 145th Street Shuttle that ran along Lenox Avenue between 145th and 135th Streets. Lastly there was the No. 5 Dyre Avenue Shuttle in the Bronx between Dyre Avenue and East 180th Street which ran on weekdays from about 8 PM to 6 AM and on weekends from about 9 AM to 8 AM (approx.) The BMT had the No. 5 Culver Shuttle between 9th Avenue and Ditmas Avenue and the No. 7 Franklin Avenue Shuttle between Franklin Avenue and Prospect Park. The IND Division had the “HH” Rockaway Shuttles between Euclid Avenue and Rockaway Park or Far Rockaway. Weekday midday and evening and on weekends these trains ran between Broad Channel and Rockaway Park. Effective on Sunday, November 26, 1967 the six IRT and BMT shuttles would now be designated as “SS” Shuttle. The Rockaway Shuttles continued to carry “HH” signage. The first subway cars to have an “SS” reading on the roll-signs were the R-32A’s (3350-3649) delivered in 1964. The first subway map to show the “SS” designation was the Chrystie Street edition issued in November 1967. Each route would have its own color: SS – Dyre Av Shuttle – Green SS – Bowling Green – South Ferry Shuttle – Dark Blue SS – 145th Street Shuttle – Black SS – 42nd Street Shuttle – Light Blue SS – Culver Shuttle – Orange SS – Franklin Shuttle – Dark Yellow or Buff A new station known as 148th Street-Lenox Terminal opened on May 13, 1968 and at this time the 145th Street Shuttle became the Lenox Terminal Shuttle. The next subway map had to have been issued after August 1968 as it reflects the service changes of July and August. All shuttle trains would now be identified by the dark green color. The nonmenclature was changed somewhat: SS – E.180th St. – Dyre Av. Shuttle SS – Bowling Green – South Ferry Shuttle SS – Lenox Terminal Shuttle SS – Times Sq. – Grand Central Shuttle SS – 9th Av. – Ditmas Av. Shuttle SS – Prospect Pk. – Franklin Av. Shuttle The Myrtle Avenue El was closed south of Broadway on October 4, 1969. The “M” would now operate between Queens and Manhattan on weekdays from 6 AM to 7 PM. At other times a shuttle would run between Metropolitan Avenue and Myrtle Avenue-Broadway (lower level). This would be designated as the “SS – Myrtle Avenue Shuttle” and it used the dark green color. There were now seven routes using the same designation. This would continue unchanged until August 1972 when the first of Vignelli designed subway maps were produced. There were several changes made. The Lenox Terminal, Dyre Avenue and Myrtle Avenue shuttles were folded back into their parent routes. The shuttles continued to operate but now born the designations of 3, 5 and M respectively. There were now four “SS”’ routes. The Culver Shuttle was discontinued on the night of May 10-11, 1975. We bid farewell to the Bowling Green Shuttle in the early morning hours of February 13, 1977. Now there were just two “”SS” routes. They would carry on until June 1979 when the Diamond Jubilee Edition of the subway map was issued. Hereafter both the 42nd Street and Franklin Avenue Shuttles would be identified by the letter “S’ which they use to the present time. (2020). |
|
|
| (1590997) | |
Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 14:29:15 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021. What would eventually become the "Brown (R)" route (95th-Chambers) I would bring back as I would move the (R) there permanently, EXCEPT I also do work at Canal Street that would include re-opening the abandoned northbound platforms at Canal and Bowery (with northbound (J) trains returning to that platform) so that (R) trains with whatever track re-work was necessary could then use Canal Street as a terminal coming from Bay Ridge, usually using what would become the "southbound express" (current northbound) track to terminate with the "northbound express" track only used during rush hours.This (R) would operate out of East New York and would have scheduled "yard run" trains that end and begin at Broadway Junction making all current J/Z stops there (these would be in the official schedules). Late nights and weekends, this (R) would be extended to Metropolitan Avenue where it would absorb the current late night and weekend (M) shuttles. As part of this, the (W) would become the full-time line to Astoria while the (N) would full-time replace the (R) to 71-Continental. The (W) would mainly terminate at Whitehall while some overflow (W) trains would continue via 4th Avenue local to 9th Avenue OR Bay Parkway on the (D) (also to/from Bay Parkway on yard runs). Late nights. the (N) would operate via the tunnel as it does now while the (W) would run from 34th or Times-Square to Astoria. (Q) would be unchanged by any of this. |
|
|
| (1591001) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Sat Nov 27 15:03:51 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021. The book on the TA standards manual from 1970 that was reprinted in recent years had two crucial errors that distorted the impressions of what the 1967 colors were.I have old Pantone swatches and color selectors of the 1960's and '70's (back when it went by the PMS initials which would have been for much if not all of the '60's), as well as the 1972, '73 and '74 subway guides. '73 seems the one most pertinent here. The 1970 standards manual insisted that blue was PMS 312 and green was PMS 354. But in my examination of all the maps I have, the green in its color balance had more in common with PMS 355 which, after 1979, became the colors for the three Lexington Avenue lines. PMS 312 would also be used for the JFK Express, so it thus appears the blue used on the 3, 8, E and M lines would have been more consistent, in its tint and texture, with PMS 306. (Everything else was correct - dark yellow being PMS 130, orange PMS 165, red PMS 185, magenta PMS 239, dark blue PMS 300, and black PMS Process Black (though, after the 1972 map revision, that color seemed to alternate with PMS 401). |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1591002) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Nov 27 15:34:59 2021, in response to Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 14:29:15 2021. Why does lower Manhattan need more service? Office-to-residential conversions have long been the trend. With a pandemic accelerating WFH, a brown "R" is even more useless today.I'll take Stephen Bauman's posts over yours any day, because at least he uses statistics as guide. You can't help but let your biases lead you around by the nose. |
|
|
| (1591006) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 16:12:48 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Nov 27 15:34:59 2021. This has more to do with making Broadway a lot easier and eliminating a lot of problems on the (R), which is notorious for being backed up:In this new format the (W) would mostly go to Whitehall, but especially during peak hours about half of the (W) trains would continue to Brooklyn via the tunnel and 4th Avenue to 36th. Anyone out of Bay Ridge or Sea Beach specifically looking for the Broadway line stations in lower Manhattan would still be able to do a same platform transfer anywhere between 36th and Court between the (R) and the (W) trains that do run to/from either 9th Avenue or Bay Parkway (those would mainly be overflow (W) trains that can't terminate at Whitehall). Also, this (R) would have stops no more than 2-3 blocks from the corresponding Broadway Line stations in lower Manhattan and those specifically looking for the World Trade Center can walk through the underground concourse at Fulton Street. The (N) and (Q) between Brooklyn and Manhattan would be virtually unchanged in this (only difference would be the (N) going to 71-Continental) and without the (R) clogging things up, even with more (W) service along Broadway overall Broadway would run more efficiently. The (N) would still run via the tunnel at night as it does now. |
|
|
| (1591007) | |
Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 16:20:09 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 16:12:48 2021. Adding:In this, I should have clarified the (J) train would permanently terminate at Chambers Street with the (R) being a 24/7 line. It would be designed where on weekdays (excluding (R) trains that are continuing to or coming from Broadway Junction because it's a scheduled yard run with those in service since the (R) in this would be based at East New York yard), passengers would transfer between the (R) and (J) at Chambers if they are going northbound and at Canal or Chambers if going southbound. This would not apply to late nights and weekends when the (R) would at all times be running to Metropolitan Avenue as it would absorb the current (M) shuttles. |
|
|
| (1591008) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 16:22:56 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021. dude. if that's all yours...holy thorough examination of a particularly juicy bit of deep brooklyn transit data, batman.having lived adjacent to both the brighton line and the sea beach line i sure as hell would have endeavored to ride that nx. well at least i did get to commute on the express routings of the j, n and d trains. express from broadway junction to marcy avenue was about the coolest. although it was always satisfying to enter 59th street the express track when riding the n. especially if a local was there. the interplay was exciting in a rail fan sense. same with the interplay between locals and expresses from kings highway to prospect park. loved the times express would pass three locals and get to prospect park first. did get a few rides on the west end express tracks too, now and then. all cool real life b.m.t. fun. rolling express over new utrecht avenue late at night was nice. amidst the towers of manhattan the subway entrances for b.m.t. always seem like the path home. |
|
|
| (1591010) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 17:10:13 2021, in response to Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 16:20:09 2021. clunky as it is, the r does give bay ridge a one seat ride to midtown. why jack that up? |
|
|
| (1591012) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 17:28:36 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 16:22:56 2021. N Train: It is mine based on much research and personal experience. I was careful to note my references. The opening of the Chrystie Street subway and its immediate aftermath were chaotic and confusing to put it mildly. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1591021) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 19:13:49 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 17:10:13 2021. Most riders usually bail for the express the first chance they get, especially from the (R) to the (N) as the (N) goes over the Manhattan Bridge and skips all the local stops (plus DeKalb). Pols had been previously lobbying for a split of the (R) because of how often it gets delayed and other factors. The few who are that lazy that they would endure a long ride to midtown on the (R) would likely adjust.Getting the (R) off Broadway likely makes it much better for the other lines on Broadway, plus, QBL would gain 24/7 Broadway service in this. |
|
|
| (1591027) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Nov 27 19:48:14 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021. Too expensive, more cars, crews and dispatchers required. |
|
|
| (1591028) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 20:17:41 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 19:13:49 2021. "the few who are that lazy.."many do just stay on. saw it when i lived near the 86th street station. i dig hitting the express too but plenty of people get those seats and relax for the ride. |
|
|
| (1591029) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 27 20:31:34 2021, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 27 11:28:35 2021. It took a while, but I finally realized the JJ didn't run 24/7 back in the day. About the only time it didn't operate was during midday hours on weekdays. The QJ covered the Broadway-Brooklyn and Jamaica portions by itself. That 1967 TA map only stated, "Other times" when it ran between 168th St. and Broad St. It could have said, "Evenings, nights and weekends," to make it more specific. |
|
|
| (1591035) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 27 21:32:17 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 20:17:41 2021. In the olden days, when I used to ride the subway, I'd often take a local just to get a seat, especially if I wasn't in any hurry. If I had occasion to do it again, now that I'm older, I'd be even more inclined to favor a local over an express if I could get a seat. My body just doesn't take the jouncing around hanging on a pole the way it used to-- and the expresses aren't that much faster that the discomfort is worthwhile.In particular, staying on a Queens Blvd local towards Jamaica was often worthwhile as the train would quickly empty as it progressed, and by the time it got to 71-Continental, the E that I needed to finish the ride was usually empty enough if not to get a seat, at least to have a decent place to stand such as the end of an R-160 cab car for the few stops remaining. In some cases, I knew that I was going to be standing around Jamaica anyway waiting for one of the infrequent trains back to Carle Place, so the express wasn't worth it |
|
|
| (1591042) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 28 00:25:50 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by ntrainride on Sat Nov 27 20:17:41 2021. True, but this is about a much bigger picture:We all know about the long-running problems of the (R) as it is now. This essentially splits it up with the (W) becoming a full-time line, replacing the (R) as the Broadway local in Manhattan. One compromise could be on weekends (except late nights when the (N) would be a 4th Avenue local running via the tunnel as it is now) ALL (W) trains terminate at 9th Avenue on the (D) and give (R) riders a same platform transfer anywhere between 36th and Court. This is about making the (R) a more efficient line in Brooklyn for the most part, and why outside of yard runs during the week this (R) as I would do it would be via Nassau to Canal Street, where it would terminate. |
|
|
| (1591046) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 07:01:47 2021, in response to Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 16:20:09 2021. I don't like the way the R runs, which I think is mostly a function of poor dispatching, but no one will go along with chopping up the J/Z on weekdays forcing Wall Streeters from east of Myrtle Avenue or ENY thru Jamaica to transfer. |
|
|
| (1591051) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 28 08:25:18 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 07:01:47 2021. This would southbound be (mostly) a simple, cross-platform transfer at either Canal or Chambers and northbound the same at Chambers (the (R) in this scenario would mostly terminate on what would become the "southbound express"/current northbound track at Canal). It would be set up where the train that is beginning at Chambers (J/Z northbound) or Canal (R southbound) would be waiting for passengers to transfer and would leave immediately AFTER the train that is terminating at the next stop (either direction) leaves and does the necessary track crossings (this would not apply when the (R) train coming in is coming from/going to Broadway Junction on a scheduled yard run nor would this apply to late nights and weekends when the (R) would be extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the (M) shuttles).The idea is you would go right to the other train without waiting for the most part. Basically, this new version would be a split train running from 95th-Bay Ridge to Jamaica Center for the most part with a simple, cross-platform transfer in the middle. This is really as noted about fixing the notorious problems the (R) has had on Broadway. Moving it to Nassau would fix a lot of issues on the Broadway line with the (W) becoming the 24/7 replacement for the (R) as the Broadway local (though the (N) would still operate via the tunnel late nights). |
|
|
| (1591058) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 10:10:56 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 28 08:25:18 2021. Why are you disrupting the J train for the R's train's problems ?Focus on the dispatching issues with the R train without ripping the rest of the BMT apart. |
|
|
| (1591061) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 10:47:00 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 27 21:32:17 2021. that's always been one of the benefits of a robust local/express train service infrastructure. the "pump-and-flush" dynamic, when efficiently executed does result in seats becoming available at every express stop. maybe it can only work in new york city but it does work well here.all i was saying in an earlier post was there are good reasons for continuing the one seat ride r train from 95th street in bay ridge through manhattan. |
|
|
| (1591062) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 11:04:07 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 28 00:25:50 2021. 1. availability of easy transfer to express trains running along the same route is good.2. availability of a one seat ride from the furthest reaches of the rail transit covered city territory is good. hmmmm. guess my view of it is, making the r stop being a through train makes it a less efficient line in brooklyn. it ain't a toy train set. in our fair city people arrange their whole lives around, say, having the availability of a seat on a train going to work |
|
|
| (1591063) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 11:07:46 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 10:10:56 2021. Thank You!Wally is indeed inconveniencing J line riders. An M line rider who wanted to go to Fulton or Broad St. would have to take the M to the J to the R. |
|
|
| (1591064) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 12:20:12 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 11:07:46 2021. if all that transferring is done voluntarily, fine and dandy.when i lived near the kings highway (at that time) d train station and had a job on rewe street in east williamsburg i used to get sick of taking the d to the f to the l to graham avenue and walk to vandervoort avenue to rewe street. so i would do it brooklyn style: d to prospect park to franklin shuttle to dean street, walk to the b48 on classon avenue and take it to lorimer and grand street to either the b54 or the b59. all the connections were timely and easy. so i'm all for using those options...at my discretion. just don't screw up the outer boro commuter patterns for a projected "greater systemic good" if there are other approaches to the problem. |
|
|
| (1591066) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 12:40:56 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 12:20:12 2021. I grew up in that area and the B48 from Prospect Park to the B53/B59 was certainly the better way to go. |
|
|
| (1591072) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 13:24:07 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 11:07:46 2021. Imagine making a rat-infested sewer passing for a subway station like Chambers be both a regular terminus and a transfer point. |
|
|
| (1591073) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 13:25:22 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 12:40:56 2021. yeah...i just enjoyed riding the shuttle for a few stops. taking it to dean street instead of jumping on the bus right at prospect was fascinating for numerous reasons. |
|
|
| (1591075) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Nov 28 13:35:23 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 13:24:07 2021. whenever i used chambers street i could barely see it over all the history that has gone on there. i metaphorically put on my "spectacles", ala the real oz stories so it all looks "green". the history in the city hall turf is dense.i'm so gone when i see chambers street station i think "wow, such a modern useful subway station! new york certainly is improving." hey, it is cool that for a while crowded downtown tenement dwellers could take a "super express" train out to the ocean beaches. |
|
|
| (1591076) | |
Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27 |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 28 13:43:17 2021, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for November 27, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Nov 27 20:31:34 2021. I rode on a JJ exactly once, a round trip from Elderts Lane to 168th St. and back, on a Sunday in March of 1968. It was an R-27/30 consist and there was a train of BMT standards on the middle track at 160th St. that was signed as a Broadway-Br'klyn L'c'l. |
|
|
| (1591087) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 15:15:10 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 13:24:07 2021. Indeed.Insane using Chambers as a terminal. I hated that when I worked the J on weekends for overtime. |
|
|
| (1591117) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Nov 28 21:47:08 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Nov 28 11:07:46 2021. Agreed!That idea is so idiotic. Leave the "R" as it is, for what it is worth. The passengers can simply walk a few blocks, for crying loud! The "J" should be left alone too. Besides, Chambers Street and all underground stations northward are just simply horrible, and forget about using either Chambers or Delancey-Essex as a terminal. -William A. Padron ["{B}"] |
|
|
| (1591130) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 06:47:38 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by William A. Padron on Sun Nov 28 21:47:08 2021. Actually, Essex is an M Shuttle terminal late evenings. I don't know what hapened to that on weekends. That saves them a transfer at Myrtle if headed uptown, which most people are.But we don't need to create new transfer points where none exist now. |
|
|
| (1591133) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 29 07:06:05 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 06:47:38 2021. Actually, Essex is an M Shuttle terminal late evenings. I don't know what hapened to that on weekends. That saves them a transfer at Myrtle if headed uptown, which most people are. But we don't need to create new transfer points where none exist now. Joe: It's the other way around. Late night "M" train terminates at Myrtle Avenue. On weekends the "M" terminates at Essex Street from about 7/8 AM to 11 PM. On weekdays the occasional "M" train might wander down to Chambers Street if there is a backup on the 6th Avenue Line. If that is the case they reverse on the tail track south of the station like the old No.10. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1591136) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 07:39:28 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Nov 29 07:06:05 2021. OK, I skimmed over the pdf schedule too fast.They only go to Chambers to get out of the way. They would terminate at Canal if they could. But to chop the J at Chmabers is nuts. They should investigate what is wrong with R train performance, which is not acceptable. They have been running trains between South Brooklyn and Forest Hills since the late 1950's, but for the last 10 - 15 years, too stupid to know how. Weekends are just as bad as weekday rush hour. |
|
|
| (1591142) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by The Silence on Mon Nov 29 09:13:30 2021, in response to Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Nov 27 14:29:15 2021. One thing no one has brought up... why the fuck is Wally sticking the R with ENY's shorter trains?And I don't even want to think about the workout the interlocking north of Chambers is going to be getting every day |
|
|
| (1591145) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 10:17:36 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by The Silence on Mon Nov 29 09:13:30 2021. From 9/12/01 to 9/26/01, the 4th Avenue local and Sea Beach lines got J & M trains with R & N suspended, so 480', but that was a stop gap. |
|
|
| (1591156) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 29 11:58:25 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Nov 27 21:32:17 2021. The MTA doesn’t think getting a seat is important. They don’t realize that many choose their route or mode of travel to get a seat. |
|
|
| (1591176) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Nov 29 14:46:32 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 07:39:28 2021. The (R) train performance is EXACTLY why I would make this change:Getting the (R) off Broadway and moving it to Nassau would improve things a lot. The idea of Canal being the terminal for the (R) as I would do it here was not possible prior to the work done in the late 1990's-early 2000s that eliminated the old crossover at the south end of Canal Street to allow for trains to run through the tunnel. Plus, Canal for years used to actually be a terminal for trains coming off the Williamsburg Bridge, especially pre-Christie, so its not like it could not become a terminal again (only this time coming from Bay Ridge). Terminating the (J) at Chambers admittedly isn't ideal, but Chambers has four tracks and the (J) can terminate out of the way of the (R) in this case doing it the way I can and vice versa at Canal for the (R). Sure. it may inconvience SOME passengers specifically looking for current (R) stops in Manhattan, but this is about the overall picture in improving (R) service and essentially splitting it with the (W) with the (W) taking over as the full-time Broadway local would make much more sense to me. |
|
|
| (1591178) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 15:19:40 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Nov 29 14:46:32 2021. You don't screw up one route to "fix" another when their paths don't even cross. You drill down to the root cause of the incompetence, find it, and solve it. You may like the J train to terminate at Chambers, but the passengers do not. |
|
|
| (1591180) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 29 15:34:11 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 07:39:28 2021. Why are there so many problems on this route since the "R" has the Montague St tunnel all to itself? Service was much better on the "R/RR", when it shared its Broadway route with the "QT" and the "TT" from Nassau St. |
|
|
| (1591182) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 15:41:40 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 29 15:34:11 2021. That is the $10,000 question. It must come down to sloppy or bias dispatching somewhere.I once waited a few years go on a Saturday afternoon at "Pacific Street" for 40 minutes. One D and N after another came along. When the R did come, it was not that crowded. If you watch the southbound countdown clock at 86th Street, with alleged 12 minute intervals, they are very uneven, like 6 minutes, 18 minutes, 13 minutes. |
|
|
| (1591187) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Nov 29 18:17:08 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by The Silence on Mon Nov 29 09:13:30 2021. The idea (again!) is this would be doing something some pols had been screaming for given the poor service of the (R), especially in Brooklyn:Splitting the (R) into two lines with the (W) becoming full-time and replacing the (R) on Broadway. As noted, SOME (W) trains, especially during peak hours when Whitehall CAN'T turn all of the (W) trains that would be running would continue to Brooklyn, either to 9th Street or Bay Parkway on the (D) (and further if necessary, during rush hours (W) trains to/from Bay Parkway can run express in the reverse peak direction along the West End). This would give Bay Ridge riders a same platform transfer anywhere between 36th and Court Street for those who need lower Manhattan on the Broadway Line (and even then, this Nassau (R) would be making stops in most cases no more than 2-3 blocks from the Broadway Line stations, plus at Fulton you can walk underground to reach the World Trade Center). Yes, I'm aware of this (R) being 480 feet instead of 600 feet, though I believe you can actually run nine-car, 540' trains with a narrow fit as it is on most of the Nassau Line (and when needed, Broadway-Brooklyn) stations other than Metropolitan Avenue used to handle eight-car trains of 67-foot Standards that made for 536 feet. Nights and weekends all (R) trains that are going to Metropolitan in this would have to be 480' but weekdays and in peak hours when running to Canal or Broadway Junction they could be 540' or nine cars. |
|
|
| (1591191) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 18:51:30 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Nov 29 18:17:08 2021. You are making assumptions about 9 car trains that do not exist and still cutting capacity 10%. Just because they once handled 8 67' cars doesn't mean they can handle 9 60' cars where the doors are closer to the ends, and there is no leeway left. Metro Ave would need a complete rebuild.Without having any idea why the R trains run poorly, you are proposing "solutions", including messing up the J train, which already gets stabbed by M trains at Essex and Myrtle Avenue. People do not need another headache of sweating out transfers at Chambers St. Then you want to extend the W, which would replicate the R train's problems. |
|
|
| (1591192) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Mon Nov 29 18:54:48 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Nov 29 18:17:08 2021. it's not the downtown stations. it's the village, and 14th street, and times square and midtown. on one plodding but resolute train.in brooklyn they cool wit dat. |
|
|
| (1591213) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 29 22:52:16 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 18:51:30 2021. The J is prime to take over the 4th Avenue local servicesHell,you can run it now as.a support service for the 4th Ave local. Instead of waiting 15 to 20 minutes IN REAL TIME , J service operating along with R services will cut back waiting times. Fact remains,too many merges along the R keeps it jacked everyday Run the W through the tunnel, leave the R to Whitehall. Run the J/W to 95 st and call it a day No more problems. |
|
|
| (1591227) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 06:41:12 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 29 22:52:16 2021. Would mess up Jamaica-bound J and Astoria-bound W, the latter being the pre-1987 R, with no yard at either end."Too many merges" along R route has been the case since 1957. Stupid dispatching has not. |
|
|
| (1591236) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Nov 30 08:23:21 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 06:41:12 2021. And this version of the (W) I would do (that would replace the (R)) would have about half the trains continue to Brooklyn, some to 9th Avenue, others at Bay Parkway. You could set that part up with either a yard at 9th Avenue that is exclusive for the (W) OR all yard (W) runs are in-service to Bay Parkway where they drop out (likewise, in this, all Nassau (R) yard runs are in-service from/to Broadway Junction and would ne noted in the schedules as such).Eliminating the (R) from Broadway, even if you add some (W) trains on 4th Avenue to 36th (about half the (W) trains during the week and all of them on weekends) would make the (R) far more efficient in Brooklyn, which is why I would move the (R) to Nassau even if it meant shortening the (J) to Chambers (and again, with limited exceptions in this scenario passengers simply would be able to walk across the platform at Canal southbound/Chambers northbound to switch trains). |
|
|
| (1591239) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 09:01:08 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Nov 30 08:23:21 2021. You are still making as mess with both the southern and eastern divsions of the BMT with no clue as to what is wrong with the R. Ther is no reason to make J passengers transfer at Chambers because the R is fucked up.Saying the R is messed up is not diagnosing the problem, yet you come up with "solutions" without knowing what the problem is. |
|
|
| (1591243) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Nov 30 09:52:18 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 09:01:08 2021. STOP IT, WALLYHORSE!!!You are simply "trespassing" with your idiotic, way off-base suggestions. I dare you to go out there on the road, and you see what the "R" is really experiencing out there. And do not go by what you see from looking at the map to make your own "looney" views seemingly to work, which they do more harm than good. Me? I like my direct one-seat ride on the "J" between Delancey-Essex [my transfer for the "F"] and Broad Street [where my office is]. Leave the "R" out of the equation. -William A. Padron ["[E]"] |
|
|
| (1591246) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition) |
|
|
Posted by zac on Tue Nov 30 10:00:48 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently (addition), posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 29 15:19:40 2021. And why couldn't it terminate at Broad St anyway? The line was built to accommodate both trains terminating at Broad and loop trains AND Chambers St trains AND Canal St trains.But the whole idea is ridiculous anyway. They eliminated Nassau St trains coming out of Dekalb Ave years ago. Why? Because they were mostly empty. When I commuted I would occasionally take an M train from Dekalb, only if it were already in the station, up to Chambers for the 4/5. And the reason I did that was that the Q was crowded and I was standing and the M was empty. Most people got off at Jay and Court too. So few people were going to Manhattan that I can see why they just canned it. I also once or twice took it the other way if I were downtown for whatever reason (probably J&R until they went belly up) and it was even more empty. |
|
|
| (1591247) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Nov 30 10:01:38 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by Edwards! on Mon Nov 29 22:52:16 2021. Run the W through the tunnel, leave the R to Whitehall.Run the J/W to 95 st and call it a day. Extending the "J" through that much longe runabout route from Jamaica Center to 95th Street would not solve the problem, and just makes it worse. From experience, there are long waits for the "J", particularly with some of the delays in the AM rush hour I have been seeing on the Manhattan-bound runs trying to cross over the Willy B. No matter what, the "R" would always be associated as the 4th Avenue Local service, and substituting with a different letter such as the "W" will disrupt and confuse the passengers. You are still going to have issues with what goes on the BMT Broadway line between Canal and 57th-7th, particularly when you have three routes ["N", "R", "W"] all jockeying into the 60th Street Tube. -William A. Padron ["[Lex]"] |
|
|
| (1591248) | |
Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Nov 30 10:05:29 2021, in response to Re: Moving the (R) to Nassau Street permanently, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Nov 30 09:52:18 2021. Diagnose the R.It is likely getting delayed by an Astoria-originating train before it enters the tunnel to Manhattan. Terminating at Whitehall accomplishes nothing except it would not magnify the delay south of there. But then Wally wants to mess around with the W and the J, and the W becomes the pre-1987 R, which didn't work either. The J is an innocent by-stander, already regularly stabbed by the precious M at both Essex and Myrtle with merges and overtakes. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
