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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 15:11:29 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 12:33:59 2015.

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No surprise there. Stupid doesn't disappear just because one changes hats, and as long as the bakhsheesh is received, nobody cares about the actual project/product.
The great glory of "IT" especially decades back was that the straights mostly couldn't do the work/make the machines behave thus creating a high paying employment niche for sandal and jeans wearing types who otherwise couldn't "fit in".

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 25 15:40:40 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:08:18 2015.

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I guess, people have less grounds to complain about a ROW that's already there, for the most part.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 15:54:16 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Apr 22 12:50:08 2015.

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Co-Op City is over a half mile from the subway.

I honestly don't see bicycles being as widespread as people would like them to be. First of all, it requires a certain level of physical fitness, and second of all, it requires streets to be bike-friendly (and redesigning streets to be so will likely have adverse impacts on traffic).

As for Utica, it's not "most" of the route that's within a mile of Nostrand Avenue. For starters, the Nostrand Avenue Line doesn't go south of Avenue H, and on top of that, the whole area east of Utica is over a mile from Nostrand.

And I really don't think LIRR service will be the determining factor in Downtown Brooklyn's revitalization. Considering its proximity to Manhattan, as well as the multiple subway lines to whole swaths of the city, it's definitely not going to be dependent on the level of service running along Atlantic Avenue.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 15:56:23 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 25 15:40:40 2015.

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well, for starters, the MTA owns it--no need to purchase ROW.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 15:58:13 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 15:54:16 2015.

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Would an extended Nostrand subway sent down Flatbush make more sense ?

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 15:59:17 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 22 17:13:56 2015.

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Why couldn't they have just had it terminate at Kings Highway? (Or assuming the plan was to stop at Church, D, and H, cut it to Avenue D?)

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 16:10:40 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Apr 23 07:38:26 2015.

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Actually, if you're talking about distance to a subway station, you have to narrow the catchment area a little bit. It's only a half mile if you're at 23rd Street itself (or another street that leads to an entrance to an 8th Avenue Line station).

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Jace on Sat Apr 25 16:26:45 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 20:52:06 2015.

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Mainly due to no power. There was some damage to lights and electrical equipment as some water did get in but not enough to flood the tunnels.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 25 16:27:05 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 14:40:23 2015.

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FALSE! The High Line adds more value than any rail transit line.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 16:47:42 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 15:58:13 2015.

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Doesn't it face the same issue as far as Utica with respect to the water table, though? I personally think the Utica subway is very necessary, at least up to Avenue H.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 17:00:08 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 15:56:23 2015.

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That's the problem.
They are sitting on it,instead making it available for neighborhood use.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 17:29:45 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 17:00:08 2015.

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You do understand "not invented here", right. Despite the fact that MTA in theory is a single political entity, the stupid turf competition persists. Taxpaying residents (citizens or not they all pay sales taxes and via rent real estyate taxes) do not give a damn what colors the trains/buses are painted or what the initials NYCT, Mabstoa etc stand for. All they want is top get from A to B in a reasonable time. In my dreams, the Metrocard would be good for ALL service within the 5 boros no step up or surcharge over "subway fare".

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 25 17:41:59 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 22:51:16 2015.

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You'd be suprised to see the reverse commuting crowds that board trains at 125th st & Fordham. At 125, folks that work in Westchester & Fairfield & New Haven Counties and live in the upper east & west side of Manhattan get car service & Yellow cabs to the station. Between 8 & 9 AM, the tk 1-3 platforms get packed snug for Harlem & NH line trains. Usually Tk 3 is the only track available for North Bound moves with an occasional Hudson Line train going up Tk 4. Revenue & Deadhead moves north make for an impressive conga line. If one train shits out, then all bets are off!

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Re: (N) extension into The Bronx

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Apr 25 17:53:47 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Apr 24 22:14:04 2015.

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Rikers I think can be doable if you put enough barbed wire in select spots where anyone who would attempt to climb it to get to the subway would think VERY long and hard about doing so.

The main purpose of this connection is that it would be the only such line that goes to The Bronx directly from a borough other than Manhattan. This line would also serve Jacobi Medical Center, which currently does not have any subway service. It also probably would be the easiest to build of ALL the extensions (especially if all elevated even though I have it going underground after Food Service Drive) and probably would have the least objections.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 17:58:33 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 15:11:29 2015.

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Heh. It's still like that. Only difference is they did away with the glass windows so the wigs wouldn't have a heart attack seeing what they gave millions of dollars worth of toys to. :)

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 18:08:00 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 17:29:45 2015.

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Oh yeah...I got you..

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:21:58 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 07:49:02 2015.

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If that imbalance were true, they would not blackout off-peak tickets reverse peak.

I quoted figures that were published in the 2013 Hub Bound Report. The following appears on page IV-1: MTA Metro-North Railroad Planning Department exit/entrance counts at Grand Central Terminal

That should remove any doubts about their impartiality if not their accuracy. Regarding MN's fare policy: there are many irrational quirks that serve to depress demand.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:29:50 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Apr 25 09:51:02 2015.

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SI is counted. Sen. Marchi did not succeed in seceding from the City.

This is the borough breakdown of the residents living more then 2.0 miles from a subway entrance:

Bronx - 2.3%
Brooklyn - 1.5%
Manhattan - 0.0%
Queens - 72.0%
SI - 24.1%
Total - 99.9%

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:50:38 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 15:54:16 2015.

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First of all, it requires a certain level of physical fitness,

Riding a bike between 1/2 to 1 mile, on level ground, does not take a high degree of fitness.

second of all, it requires streets to be bike-friendly (and redesigning streets to be so will likely have adverse impacts on traffic).

The basic access inhibitor are the limited access highways. Incidentally, they are also an inhibitor for access to the proposed Coop City-Amtrak station.

Building ped/bike overpasses with gentle grades will cost around $100M. There's already are bike lane on the other side of the I95 moat that cuts off Coop City.

BTW, I incorrectly stated that the closest stops were Pelham Bay Park and Buhre Ave. Mr. AlM did note my error and stated the Baychester and Dyre Ave Stops.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:57:58 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Apr 25 16:10:40 2015.

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What I've done is set a compass to 1/2 mile according to a map scale. I then drew 1/2 mile radius circles around every subway entrance.

If you want a minimax walking distance to that station, multiply the radial distance by sqrt(2) or 1.414. That places the maximum walking distance within these circles at 0.7071 mi.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 19:01:41 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jace on Sat Apr 25 16:26:45 2015.

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I rode through that tunnel from Brooklyn the day or day after it re-opened. The odor of raw sewage wafted into the train, when the train left Borough Hall.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 19:09:14 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 25 17:41:59 2015.

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White Plains is the major job center for reverse commuters living in Manhattan and the Bronx. Fairfield and New Haven Counties are not. The proposed NH line into Penn Sta, does not go to White Plains.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Sat Apr 25 19:15:48 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 21:44:33 2015.

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Rye Playland is also a popular destination with Bronx residents who need to use the New Haven Line.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 25 19:37:42 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 19:09:14 2015.

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"Fairfield and New Haven Counties are not."

Maybe not "Major" but Stamford Locals & New Haven trains draw substantial crowds.The standard barometer is the amount of dead head cars on those trains. Between 8 & 9am at 125 each train has all cars open

"The proposed NH line into Penn Sta, does not go to White Plains."

I'm well aware of that, thank you.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Apr 25 20:22:55 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:29:50 2015.

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"Total - 99.9% "

Huh?

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Apr 25 20:48:52 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:50:38 2015.

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Most people other than millenials would not regularly ride bikes to commute. Bikes are a pain in bad weather, cold weather (i.e., 8 months of the year), hot and humid weather, and at night. Bike riding makes you sweat -- great idea to show up sweating for morning meetings. It has nothing do with fitness. It has to do with comfort and convenience.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Apr 25 20:50:52 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 19:09:14 2015.

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Fairfield and New Haven Counties are not. - yes, partly because of lack of convenient reverse transit. The new stops would remedy this, and increase the ability of Bronxites to get jobs in CT.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 21:12:25 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 25 16:27:05 2015.

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Well we really have no way of knowing that unless it is converted to rapid transit use.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Apr 25 21:21:44 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:19:37 2015.

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What a crock.


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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 25 21:29:40 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Sat Apr 25 20:22:55 2015.

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24.1% of those New Yorkers who live more than two miles from the subway live in Staten Island.

72.0% of those New Yorkers who live more than two miles from the subway live in Queens.

etc.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 25 21:30:46 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 21:12:25 2015.

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I disagree.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 22:20:26 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Sat Apr 25 20:48:52 2015.

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Most people other than millenials would not regularly ride bikes to commute

Median age for Citibike users at some commuter stations.

Grand Central: 42
Penn Sta: 40
PABT: 40

Bike riding makes you sweat -- great idea to show up sweating for morning meetings

Exertion level depends on speed. Exertion varies with the square of the velocity relative to air. A 6 mph will not cause a sweat; a 20 mph pace will. That 6 mph pace means the 1/2 to 1 mile ride will be completed in 5 to 10 minutes.



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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by K. Trout on Sat Apr 25 22:53:13 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 11:55:53 2015.

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A tunnel connection could be built in ENY between either Fulton st or Broadway Bklyn lines..or to the Brighton using unused bell mouths..enabling thru routing to NYCT lines within the CBD and beyond.


To which bellmouths are you referring? I've heard of ones to connect the Fulton St subway to ENY (I think to the Jamaica line), but not any others.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 23:28:03 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by K. Trout on Sat Apr 25 22:53:13 2015.

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DeKalb was rebuilt during the 50s..leaving tunnels unused.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Tramrunner on Sat Apr 25 23:45:30 2015, in response to De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Apr 22 09:35:14 2015.

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Very promising and logical plans. I'd wish him luck!
Does he plan to make Utica Avenue Line underground or elevated? Is it going to terminate at King Plaza? If Yes, why not extend Lines 2, and 5 to Kigs Plaza?

As of LIRR, does he plan to add more tracks, stations, or just to add more trains?
That's gret, but will LIRR dispatchers like it, especially for a subway price?

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Tramrunner on Sat Apr 25 23:54:12 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Tramrunner on Sat Apr 25 23:45:30 2015.

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A of transfer point at Livonia Avenue, I think there is a straight sense. Don't know why wasn't it build before. But the way, is it the the only place where subway interface with the outer world of railroads? Afaik there is one more on 3rd avenue and 37 street near Costco. Is it still in use?

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 00:25:05 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 22:20:26 2015.

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your exertion specs make no allowance for individual body characteristics or ambient temperature. I miss biking, but down to one eye I am not willing to be in traffic.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 26 00:41:12 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 00:25:05 2015.

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your exertion specs make no allowance for individual body characteristics or ambient temperature.

One expends less energy biking than walking the same distance. The reason is that unlike walking, one is not supporting one's weight. The only resistance on flat, level ground at a constant speed is air resistance.

Unlike most exercises, biking provides its own forced air cooling. One would remain cooler biking than walking, expending the same amount of energy. The person would be going faster and have more air contact one's body.

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Re: Extending the (N) to The Bronx

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Apr 26 02:21:12 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 11:56:03 2015.

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That is possible, but I still like the idea of this extended (N) going to Jacobi Medical Center since that area does NOT have subway service at the moment.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Apr 26 02:26:42 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Apr 23 18:41:58 2015.

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Right:

Also, looking at the actual High Line on Google Maps, it may have been too narrow to use as a right of way for subway unless such a line went express from Hudson Yards all the way to 14th with no stops in between anyway.

What I could see happening is if a new Madison Square Garden is built where some have suggested (28th-30th Street and 9th-10th Avenues), you could see a (7) station added that runs from 28th-30th streets to handle new MSG crowds (and such would be within reasonable walking distance of the other lines, especially if the 25th Street entrances on the 8th Avenue line are made into full-time entrances)..

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 26 05:47:01 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 15:56:23 2015.

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Whoa, the MTA owns the Bay Ridge branch? I thought CSX or some private railroad owned it. And everything from the Hell Gate bridge and north, is Amtrak territory, no?

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 26 06:08:59 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 21:12:25 2015.

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The High Line as a park is a much more attractive neighborhood feature than as an elevated rail line (to the general public, anyway).

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 26 06:20:46 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 19:09:14 2015.

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In the grand scheme of things, Fairfield County is nowhere near as big a center of reverse commuting as White Plains. But it is significant. The morning trains to Stamford are fairly full. There is a reason why there are 9 outbound NH trains between 6:59 and 8:10 instead of the usual 4 trains per hour of mid-day. More of those would run deadhead if they didn't have a need to carry passengers.

Note by the way that there are roughly the same number of outbound Harlem line trains in the AM rush.



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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by AlM on Sun Apr 26 06:28:32 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 26 00:41:12 2015.

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What are the bicycle injury and death rates per mile of travel for bicycling compared to walking? The anecdotal evidence (yes, I know that's an oxymoron) I have would suggest they are far higher.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 26 06:49:17 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 26 00:41:12 2015.

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Layman's terms...riding a bike is cool...promotes exercise, and great for the environment.
We get that...

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 26 07:46:23 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 21:12:25 2015.

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Well we really have no way of knowing that unless it is converted to rapid transit use.

We know it because property values greatly appreciated once the High Line became inoperative and appreciated further when it became a park.

Chelsea and the Meatpacking District were dumps when trains ran there and that didn't change until it became certain that nothing was ever gonna run there again.
That only happened in the late 80's when the West Side Line was severed from the High Line in order to run Amtrak into NYP.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sun Apr 26 07:56:01 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:50:38 2015.

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Who the F is going to use a bike to get to a station? Liberal fantasyland again.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 26 07:59:08 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by AlM on Sun Apr 26 06:28:32 2015.

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It's fairly difficult to get accurate statistics regarding bicycle miles traveled. Ditto for pedestrian miles. Vehicle miles traveled is computed by looking at gasoline tax revenue and inspection mileage. It's a bit more reliable.

In its first year Citibike users traveled 14.7 miles with no fatalities. There have not been any Citibike rider fatalities period. Their mileage statistics are more reliable because each bike has GPS tracking and there are accurate origin-destination data. That's the type of utility riding most resembles the 1/2 to 1 mile ride to subway.

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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Apr 26 08:17:05 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Sun Apr 26 07:56:01 2015.

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Who the F is going to use a bike to get to a station?

Local bus ridership statistics for 2014 are out. 2013 to 2014 comparison.

Brooklyn: -1.6%
Bronx: +1.5%
Queens: -1.5%
Staten Island: +1.9%
Manhattan: -5.8%



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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Apr 26 08:26:43 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 18:50:38 2015.

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Bike riding is a virtuous endeavour worth promoting.

However, it's not a mass transit policy.

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