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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 24 19:12:31 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 24 02:41:58 2015. Isn't it true the 63rd Street tunnel was the ONLY one not the least bit impacted by Sandy ? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 19:17:49 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 17:45:05 2015. but the extension is ultimately more practicalWhat's your definition of "practical"? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 19:54:17 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Fri Apr 24 00:14:15 2015. Certain uuterborough branches can be added without a manhattan trunk. The extension down Utica Av is an example.Presently, most #4 service terminates at Utica while #3 service goes to N/Lts. A Utica Av branch would allow #3 service to operate down Utica while #4 service can operate to N/Lts all without the addition of a Manhattan trunk line. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 19:59:15 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by VictorM on Fri Apr 24 12:21:12 2015. Good point. The Manhattan entrances to the 60 St tunnel are far enough away from the East river that the river water would not have reached it. At the Queens end, the portals also relatively far from the East River so that the possibility of water entry would be diminished. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 20:01:47 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jace on Fri Apr 24 13:40:22 2015. Joralemon is the oldest of the East River tunnels. How did it escape damage? |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 20:13:07 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 24 02:02:33 2015. Like the property devaluation along the route of Hudson Bergen Light rail? |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 20:36:32 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 19:17:49 2015. Can better serve as a conduit to and from that area over the long term. As others have pointed out, an LIRR stop there just isn't as convenient, plus you have to fight for a near permanent slot at Penn Station. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 20:52:06 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 20:01:47 2015. Joralemon is the oldest of the East River tunnels. How did it escape damage?It didn't. Service between Borough Hall and Bowling Green was out for about a week. |
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Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 20:52:13 2015, in response to Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 24 07:26:19 2015. Maybe the will do the right thing and get rid of the EPA and its useless regulations designed to choke the world.Sure, as long as you don't have people breathing air, drinking water, or eating food. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Fri Apr 24 21:05:55 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Apr 23 17:32:26 2015. Ditto for the running Metro North into Penn Sta.So you want to see MNR Fordham have even more packed reverse peak platforms and see the Bx12 SBS more crowded? Fordham is currently the only station in the Bronx to get MNR New Haven service. Penn station access would increase New Haven line service access in the Bronx for those going to Westchester and Connecticut. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 24 21:38:16 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 24 18:46:14 2015. You are proably correct. Twp #$%^&@@#$* cut from similar cloth. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 21:44:33 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Fri Apr 24 21:05:55 2015. So you want to see MNR Fordham have even more packed reverse peak platformsQuantify "packed". Fordham is currently the only station in the Bronx to get MNR New Haven service. Penn station access would increase New Haven line service access in the Bronx for those going to Westchester and Connecticut. How many Bronx residents work in Westchester or Connecticut? How does that compare with the number of Bronx residents working in the Bronx or Manhattan. Hint: 226,315 Bronx residents work in the Bronx and another 191,620 work in Manhattan, according to the 2010 census. How many do you think work in Connecticut? The number of Bronx residents working in New Haven County is 56. How much more do you suppose Fairfield County is? City residents work either in their home borough or in Manhattan. Concentrating transportation resources to service this population means that 90% of the population can be served with for 10% of the cost. It will take 90% of the cost to serve the remaining 10% of the population. If you want to serve the most people with what little capital is available, start with the heavily used travel patterns. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Apr 24 22:14:04 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Apr 23 04:15:37 2015. Some kind of Bronx/Western Queens route would certainly be convenient for me, but I can't see this happening. Apart from the usual objections to any extension of the Astoria el, would the Corrections people allow a subway stop on Rikers? I strongly doubt it. Or any structure, even without a stop, that might be climbable. And any bridge from there to Hunts Point would need to be high enough for ships to pass under, which would mean steep grades, unless it was a drawbridge. The route you describe would be very nice (just the connection it would provide between the 2/5 and the 6, without going down to 125th St., would be very attractive) but it won't happen. And I think the Queens transfer you have in mind would be between 36th St. and 39th Ave. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 24 22:35:26 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 21:44:33 2015. Actually MN reported around a year ago that reverse commuting had risen to nearly equal inbound ridership. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 22:41:38 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Apr 24 22:14:04 2015. Well, if we venture into fantasyland again, we could have an FRA-compliant Triboro RX cross the Hell Gate bridge into the Bronx. I don't think an Astoria stop will be possible, unfortunately, but some Bronx stops (like the ones proposed for MNRR, or even the same ones) and 1 or 2 stops in Queens should be doable. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 22:51:16 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 24 22:35:26 2015. From the 2013 Hub Bound Report: Metro North in/out counts at Grand Central. (Appendix III p. III-22)hr,in,out 7:00am,19500,2530 8:00am,52402,2379 9:00am,33242,1283 Actually MN reported around a year ago that reverse commuting had risen to nearly equal inbound ridership. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:11:56 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 24 17:46:12 2015. IAWTP |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:17:35 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 24 19:08:55 2015. Any shuttle need to have subway fares. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:19:37 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 20:13:07 2015. Different place, different culture. You have an incredible increase in values now from the High Line. Replacing it with transit would be a downgrade in the eyes of many. |
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Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:20:53 2015, in response to Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 24 07:26:19 2015. "EPA and its useless regulations designed to choke the world."It's the pollution doing the choking. I guess you want our cities to all be like Beijing. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:22:39 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 21:44:33 2015. Boy you don't know your geography. New Haven js about 50 miles farther away than Greenwich. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:24:19 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 22:51:16 2015. This ignores all the reverse commuting from 125th and the Bronx stations, which is what we are talking about. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 23:36:36 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:22:39 2015. I know the geography. I also know what the the number pool of potential reverse commuters from the Bronx to Westchester and Fairfield counties. I want to know how many commuters constitute "packed" by the standards of people urging building additional rail facilities for them. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 00:03:31 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:24:19 2015. This ignores all the reverse commuting from 125th and the Bronx stations, which is what we are talking about.Could you quantify "all"? |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 00:43:49 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 16:56:45 2015. No one ever intends to balance the budget from the two major parties. |
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Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Sat Apr 25 00:46:18 2015, in response to Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 24 07:26:19 2015. The EPA is very important. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 00:55:59 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 17:23:00 2015. A stripper version of the F22 would be very useful. One of the dangers we face is not being able to field enough units in a specific theater to be successful. A simulated air battle with China over Taiwan (by a defense think tank for the Pentagon) had 28 F35s fighting 72 Chinese J10s and none of the F35s made it home despite taking out almost 50 fighters.We might be better off with a second round of 4th gen fighters to buy us time. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 01:03:46 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 00:55:59 2015. I'll just offer a thought since I work in the "industry" now. The old ways of war have changed. The enemies have good radars now that will spot those planes and find them. The reality now is drones and cyberwarfare and all the money blown on more of the same old same old ain't going to win the future wars.Today, the reality is cruise missiles and drones when you need to do a fast takeout and enough "reach" to get there to deliver them. All we're doing with Lockup and the others is pissing away a LOT of money for wars that no longer work the way they used to, and keeping the usual suspects' bank accounts full. Our potential major adversaries already have the plans downloaded from our military contractors so that if we even build them, they already have their countermeasures in place to take them out as soon as they lift off the ground. We should be spending our money on what DoD calls "national technical means" and we're not putting shit into that angle because of the same old, same old mentality. We CAN prevail, but it's seriously time to start investing in the NEXT war rather than the past ones. Seriously. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:04:06 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 19:54:17 2015. I don't see the IRT service being extended down Utica Avenue. The Z could be a different story. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:08:18 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 22:41:38 2015. This is easier to do than Utica Avenue. |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:25:33 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 01:03:46 2015. You mean like what the Russians are doing with the Su-24? An Su-24 was fitted with an electronics package that made a US destroyer go dark for almost 90 minutes. I think the military is working on the next war, but some of those weapons are illegal under today's treaties (such as space based lasers). |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 02:08:49 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:25:33 2015. Yeah, but reality these days is that nobody follows the rules. That's why we really need to "think different" and electronics is the next battlefield.First thing that will happen when the next war comes ashore is that America will go dark. Then the water stops running, and lots of other things stop and no Fox News either. Then what? Planes ain't gonna solve that. Seriously. You can already see the signs of what's to come and meanwhile, the Military Industrial Complex wants to sell us another helicopter cum bomber. Nope. Fail. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 02:57:27 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 00:03:31 2015. When I made the comment about near equilibrium at MN I was thinking back to an NYT series on transit around NYC several years ago. My first hit from a search returned this from 2008"For the first time in the history of the Metro-North Railroad — a quintessential commuter link between the city and the leafy suburbs to the north — fewer than half of its riders are suburban commuters who take the train to Grand Central Terminal in the morning and head home at night, according to data compiled by the railroad. Shifts in regional employment patterns and a sustained effort by the railroad to attract new types of riders and fill underused trains are major reasons. A seat on Metro-North that once would have belonged almost exclusively to suburban stockbrokers and office workers may now be occupied by an immigrant home health aide heading to work in White Plains, a retiree from Chappaqua attending a Broadway matinee or a Bridgeport, Conn., resident going to work at an insurance office in Stamford." So, my point remains, its not your fathers commuter railroad. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 03:14:13 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 02:08:49 2015. Generals (and their vendor bribers) have always tried to win the next war just like the last one, and no surprise, they never do. Some of us remember Billy Mitchell and Charles De Gaulle, both of whom were pilloried in their respective military establishments because they proposed "new thinking". They were demoted and the armies in question lost early parts of the war until they wised up to the new realities.Rail content, the Russian Empire figured out after watching the US Civil War that they needed non compatible rail guage to prevent Germans et al from invading by rail. Heinz Guderian used tyanks, no rail guage issue. Bottom line, buying the hardware to win the last war is and always has been a waste. So, even if you wanty to play defense hawk, the current purchase regime is insane. In the last budget round the "deficit hawk" party inflated the DOD appropriation to include equipment the Pentagon said it did not need or want--but was produced by vendors in favored red states. We could have a full 4 track trunk SAS for what they insist on wasting. If we just went back to how BART was built--mostly dDOD vendors supplying cars, computer control, etc, most of which in typical DOD fashion failed to meet specs, was late in delivery, and way over contracted pric--we should be able to get the money as long as the red state folks think they are getting their fair cut of the baksheesh. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 07:49:02 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 22:51:16 2015. If that imbalance were true, they would not blackout off-peak tickets reverse peak. On MN, there is much more to traditional commuting than just GCT. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 07:50:47 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Apr 24 23:36:36 2015. Did it occur to you that some MN NH commuters want to commute to NYPS than GCT ? We are going to hazve to remove some people from GCT to accommodate LIRR passengers on the Lex. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 07:52:11 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 02:57:27 2015. A seat on Metro-North that once would have belonged almost exclusively to suburban stockbrokers and office workers may now be occupied by an immigrant home health aide heading to work in White Plains, a retiree from Chappaqua attending a Broadway matinee or a Bridgeport, Conn., resident going to work at an insurance office in Stamford."I think you misinterpreted the article. Traditional inbound commuters may constitute half MN's daily ridership. It does not follow that half its ridership are reverse commuters. Only 1 in 3 of the non-commuter examples cited is a reverse commuter. One is an off-peak inbound rider and the other is an intra-state CT commuter. The reverse Bronx to Westchester commuter is going from the Bronx to White Plains. That's not a a trip that the proposed East Bronx stations on the MN to Penn Sta would support. They are linking to the New Haven Line not the Harlem Line. The total number of Manhattan and Bronx residents who work in Connecticut is under 10,000 according to the census. That population represents less than 1% of the journey to work trips for New York City residents. Approximately 900,000 NYC residents live beyond 2 miles from a subway entrance. That's the population that should have first crack at new rail services. Blowing money to provide additional access for non-city residents who already have access is a ploy to deny NYC residents transportation funding. |
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Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 07:52:14 2015, in response to Re: NYT Article -Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Dj Hammers on Sat Apr 25 00:46:18 2015. But unpopular in North Dakota given so many jobs given to dangerous fracking practices and all the associated carcinogens. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Apr 25 09:02:12 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 24 19:59:15 2015. The 63rd St tunnel has entrances on Roosevelt Island.RI was inundated during Sandy. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Apr 25 09:20:07 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by SMAZ on Sat Apr 25 09:02:12 2015. The head house at RI might have been built waterproof. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Apr 25 09:51:02 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Apr 25 07:52:11 2015. Approximately 900,000 NYC residents live beyond 2 miles from a subway entrance.Just want to check, is Staten Island counted or uncounted? |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Apr 25 10:25:56 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Fri Apr 24 14:24:18 2015. agreed. seems like a waste of regional transportation facilities to cut off direct semi-long distance passenger rail access to downtown Brooklyn. keeping it lirr, opening woodhaven, the corridor could still be considered a "super express" line through the heart of a densly developed "inner city" region, out-expressing the A train, yet still allowing for a passenger to board at, say, nostrand avenue and travel to mineola or long beach or wyandanch without changing trains. a city this size, those travel options should be sop. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 10:26:40 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by AlM on Sat Apr 25 09:20:07 2015. Well obviously the new South Ferry one was not ! |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 10:28:17 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by ntrainride on Sat Apr 25 10:25:56 2015. It needs to be a hybrid rapid transit/commuter rail service, which is a concept this country has a problem modelling. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Apr 25 11:48:35 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 10:26:40 2015. Considering how big that hole must have been to have sucked up so much money, I doubt there was any possibility of plugging it to keep out flood waters! |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 11:55:53 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 10:28:17 2015. I suggested such a service some time ago using the LIRR from Brooklyn to Far Rockaway and Hempstead only.These two routes would use new 65ft rail cars for flexibility... hybrid technology to enable on the fly voltage changes(600 to 750 plus) Air bag suspension for platform height differentials,ATO,ATC,ATS...a mixed suburban/rapid transit seating interior. A tunnel connection could be built in ENY between either Fulton st or Broadway Bklyn lines..or to the Brighton using unused bell mouths..enabling thru routing to NYCT lines within the CBD and beyond. |
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Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 12:33:59 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 25 03:14:13 2015. If we could just get the usual suspects out of their new-found "computer security" business, we'd be a lot better off. They're doing a worse job on that than the cottage industry they replaced. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 13:10:46 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by R30A on Sat Apr 25 11:48:35 2015. And sucking up more money to rebuild it than build it, even after adjusted for inflation. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 14:38:52 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by JAzumah on Sat Apr 25 01:04:06 2015. However, since bellmouths already exist for an IRT branch down Utica and it was. in fact part of the proposals of the 1970s, it would be the 3 or 4 that would go down Utica. How would get the Z doe Utica anyhow. If it were to be diverted to a new subway which would have to be constructed starting in the area of Bway/Myrt it would deprive the Jamaica line of its present level of service whereas extending the 3 or 4 would not diminishIRT service at all. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 14:40:23 2015, in response to Re: De Blasio Want To Expand The Subway, posted by italianstallion on Fri Apr 24 23:19:37 2015. Only the unintelligent! |
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