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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1181410) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed May 7 18:50:28 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Wed May 7 16:57:06 2014. I ask again, where are these refugees coming from? Because I don't see any countries that Jews are fleeing from en masse.Because many of them who needed to flee did so. And the majority of them went to a country called Israel. If Israel isn't the state which Jews of all stripes can emigrate to, where do you propose they go? And if Israel stopped being the Jewish state it is now and turned against its population, where do you propose the Jews go then? Jews today face a lot less risk of oppression and violence than plenty of other demographics that aren't having artificially controlled countries set aside for them. The US has gotten better about it, but Jews still face it around the world. And just because other demographics haven't created their own countries (and others have, or at least tried, BTW) doesn't mean that doing so is wrong or that those other demographics don't want it. I pointed this out to draw a parallel between a Christian majority electing a Christian theocracy that infringes on the rights of non-Christians and a Jewish majority electing a Jewish theocracy that infringes on the rights of non-Jews (which you seem to support). I wouldn't necessarily want to live in a theocracy, but my point is that it is THEIR country, not MINE. THEY voted to make it a Jewish state, and that is their business. And for a supposed theocracy, it treats its non-Jewish citizens amazingly well. Oppressed demographics are getting together and doing something about their situation all the time, yet it's only the Jews who have demanded an artificially controlled country for their exclusive use. When you can point to the Romani State on a map or show me which chunks of North America have been set aside as nation-states in the modern sense of the term which are reserved for the exclusive use of various First Nations, then the insistence on a dedicated Jewish State will seem less odd. Wow, that's a lot of qualifications just so you can exclude the Native American tribes who are semi-autonomous and even have their own governments. And otherwise, you're still wrong about Israel being for Jews "exclusive use" (the Muslim Arabs and Christians living there most likely will disagree with you). As for a dedicated state for a demographic, not odd at all. Go to a map, and look for Yugoslavia. Or Czechoslovakia. Or count how countries have the word "Sudan" in them. Thankfully, society has moved on since then. So you're claiming we need to go through all manner of political nonsense to create and enforce a dedicated Jewish State™ because antisemitic genocide campaigns that are not currently happening might potentially happen again in spite of 70 years of gradual historical progress, and if they do then we can't trust any other countries to accept refugees because the relatively primitive people of the 1940s didn't. Society hasn't moved on as much as you think it has. Just look at the Republican party, and how our government has been getting progressively less effective over the past 20 years. Look at our attitudes towards immigrants, from people who were probably descended from immigrants themselves. And considering how many genocides of other demographics have occurred since then, historical progress is questionable. Why wait for a genocide to start before doing something, and finding out that you're still just as unwanted as before? So then, you admit that Israel is a product of money and connections - effectively, a "might makes right" approach - and not because there is any genuine legal or moral need for a dedicated Jewish State™ after all? Now who's using the shreddable straw man. Are you honestly expecting somebody who has a genuine need for a Jewish state not to use whatever legal resources at their disposal to obtain it, like buying property, building settlements on it, and convincing politicians to take up the issue? Or should they just stand on hill and sing "We Shall Overcome"? |
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