|
|
| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1182708) | |||
 |
|||
| Home > OTChat | |||
|
[ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ] |
|
||
|
Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sun May 11 18:41:59 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Sun May 11 16:45:53 2014. Nice dodge. Would a Christian majority cause an unacceptable loss of Israel's Jewish character or not?Not a dodge. I'm not concerned with a Christian majority, I'm concerned with how Israel deals with it. Apples to oranges. A single private home is not a country, and giving special consideration to a friend is not the same as giving special consideration to any stranger who happens to perform certain rituals regardless of all other factors. No it's not. You're promising to provide shelter to a persecuted person if the same faith, because you've experienced, or knows someone whose experienced, the same persecution. This statement is open to multiple interpretations which range from unpleasant to disgusting. I'd hate to assume, so please clarify exactly what you mean by it. Would the people who are experiencing these atrocities think that the overall situation is getting better because segregation was stopped in one place? I used countries in Europe as an example of how much better the planet was doing. That former Soviet territories are now modern democracies hardly supports your claim that historical progress is being reversed no matter where in the world they might be. Of the "modern democracies" (if you can call them that), only ONE of them has free and fair elections. I used countries in Europe as an example of how much better the planet was doing. That former Soviet territories are now modern democracies hardly supports your claim that historical progress is being reversed no matter where in the world they might be. Except the point is Asia isn't really moving forward, and it's much bigger than Europe. You claim that historical progress is being reversed. That the countries you hold up as examples of the trend have, in fact, progressed from completely horrible to slightly less horrible which is sort of the opposite of what you suggest. If you had to live in China but could pick the era, choosing today over the 1960s would be a no-brainer. Over the past 70 years, China went from bad to really horrible and back to bad, unless you were an Uighur or Tibetan, in which case it went from OK to bad. Myanmar went from 'ehhh' to bad to not so bad. Except if you were Muslim in which case it went to horrible. Pity about the Muslims in Myanmar. If only there was a state that was specifically created to provide a guaranteed haven for people facing religious persecution because they believe God told them not to eat pork. Gee, you mean there are no Muslim countries which take other Muslims? You asked for signs of progress, I gave you the end of the Soviet Union. You demanded an ex-Soviet country in Asia and I offered you one. Now you say that's not enough. You said there was progress in Asia, you provided the remnants of the Soviet Union and examples in Europe. I said the majority of the new countries from the Soviet Union, among others in Asia, aren't all that great. You provided ONE example, possibly 3, out of a possible 8, and expect that to be representative of Asia. Am I led to believe you accept my point that the Republicans' failures to roll back progress in the country they control despite concerted efforts to do so serves as evidence that historical progress is not, in fact, being reversed? I missed it. A couple of your points were right, but since abortion rights are being eroded away, and since a very large portion of the population has not rejected their toxic ideology, I would call that a mixed bag. If you concede that current policies are not fixed products of human nature and attempting to change them is not a futile endeavour, then we can consider this point settled. Only until a better solution is implemented. Until then, changing the current policies is not a good idea. That Nazism has been diminished from the guiding principle of an entire country to a universally despised and frequently banned position across the planet represents a fundamental change not consistent with the idea that human nature is fixed and unchanging. It actually hasn't been banned that frequently, and unfortunately, it's possible it's not even universally despised. And if the German economy were to collapse into what is was like during the Weimar Republic, I wouldn't bet against the rise of a hateful philosophy akin to Nazism. For that matter, the creation of Israel is not consistent with that idea either. You talk about how much work went into achieving that goal while at the same time declaring bigger and better goals to be futile because human nature can't be changed. No, I'm saying that human nature hasn't changed nearly enough for those goals to be practically implemented. Yes, and that they limit who can enter and stay by their subscription to a particular religion is a bigoted double standard not consistent with the idea of equality that has been embraced across the civilised world. Their first priority is to protect their people. Whether they can handle more is debatable, but considering their size and resources, it's understandable that they don't take on the world's refugees. You haven't yet answered why Judaism makes 100,000 refugees easier to accommodate even while saying Israel can take in them but not a tenth as many of any other religious persuasion. It doesn't make them easier to accommodate, it fits with the goal they set for themselves when they founded Israel. As for the "tenth as many", I already answered that. Incidentally, I notice you passed over this bit: And that's exactly my point. The persecuted refugees have to go through a more difficult process and risk being turned away, while the non-persecuted Jew gets fast-tracked through the whole thing. Any comments? Answered elsewhere. I didn't feel like duplicating. |
|
|
|