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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1181558) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 13:59:57 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 11:23:36 2014. Nope, they're 2 very related concepts.Only if you're advocating for the "Arab people are inherently incapable of democracy" position. I can't be bothered to look up exactly who expressed that position recently. Again, why don't you try looking for Yugoslavia, Czeckslovakia, etc. No, that's an apple. I asked for an orange. Again, at the time they blah blah blah blah At the time, it sucked to be anybody but a rich straight male WASP. It is no longer the 1940s. Neither the Holocaust nor the circumstances under which Israel was founded give them justification for turning away a refugee who shows up in Tel Aviv simply for being Romani/North Korean/Muslim Chinese/whatever today. Would you still leave your fate in the hands of those very same countries? Here in 2014, I trust Germany a lot more than either America or Israel. Or would you take action to make sure there will be one place that would never close their doors to your demographic? I'd rather make sure there's a place that won't close its doors to any demographic that's fleeing oppression. Once that's done, I'd work on creating another such place. After decades of countries closing their doors to you, your immediate response is "I want a country of my own so I can close my doors to everyone else?" Your view is like from someone who has never known what it's like to have the world turn their back on you. Yuh huh. At least one of the demographics I belong to faces at least as much discrimination as Jews do today. Hey, you're the one who stated it, not me. Any other deliberate exaggerations? Don't pretend you don't understand how language works. How are the non-Jewish citizens of Israel curtailed? Forced birth control? Forced abortions? Limits on number of children? Right of return— no goyim need apply. That and the need for a "two state solution" to enforce a Jewish majority, which will doubtless become a "three state solution" if Christianity starts offering a 20% bonus on all good deeds or whatever convinces people to change religions. Gee, that sounds awfully familiar! It sounds just like - the creation of Israel! And they've opened their doors to a worldwide population defined by their choice in food, holidays, and mandatory days off? You've missed the point. Of course, I think it's safe to assume the "line down the middle" is figurative. Ah, so you do understand figurative language. Then how come my use of the word "exclusive" confused you? It's more of a country than a geographical area, but yes. A country is a geographical area contained within specific borders. And the fact that they (d)evolved into what they are now is a sign of historical progress? No, but the fact that racism, sexism, homophobia, and bigotry of all sorts is at an all-time low in spite of their best efforts is. Except for one of them, none of them have a guarantee that you will be allowed into the country. That's a problem everybody in every country should be trying to change. I've had a fairly extended "debate" over this with Chris and I think Spider Pig— the idea of exclusive birthright citizenships (you may not leave the country you were born in without special dispensation) is absurd and obsolete. Except for Israel... No, Israel turns away every oppressed demographic save one. How many Chinese Muslims or Saudi Christians or Afghan atheists or North Koreans of any religious persuasion manage to find safety in Israel? ...(which didn't exist at the time) and maybe South Africa (which was still a colony)... I don't know when you are, but for me it's 2014. Israel exists, South Africa is an independent country, most countries are generally OK with Jews, and Germany bans pro-Nazi advocacy. ...all of them have blocked your demographic at least once. My demographic? Which one? How many of them are you even aware of? But you'd still trust them to take you and your family if your demographic found it necessary to pack up and leave en masse? There are plenty of countries to flee to if it came to that. Though it's funny you should ask what country I'd flee to— I doubt Israel would accept me and there are no countries established for the purpose of accepting people with my leanings on the topic of religion. Or you can make sure that there is one place that will never shut their doors to you and your demographic. You missed the point. That countries consider themselves reserved for the use of specific demographics (and will turn you away if you're not the right one) is the problem you're trying to solve— and abandoning the idea of residency discrimination by demographic is a lot better than making sure there's at least one country for every demographic. After all, if Israel is set up as the Jewish State™ and all other countries turn away Jews, then where do the Reform Jews go if Israel decided it's now Orthodox-only? What happens if Israel becomes a dictatorship for reasons completely unrelated to religion, or decides to discriminate based on criteria other than religion? So they should wait until the next oppression and genocide before they discover they're all alone again? No. If they've got enough power, money, and connections to create a country, they should create a country that will accept anyone fleeing from genocide. Why should they? Your view is like from someone who has never known what it's like to have the world turn their back on you. |
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