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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1181752) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 19:51:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 13:59:57 2014. Only if you're advocating for the "Arab people are inherently incapable of democracy" position.No, I'm advocating for Israel not incorporating a population sworn to its destruction. No, that's an apple. I asked for an orange. You need your eyes checked, because what you have is another apple. At the time, it sucked to be anybody but a rich straight male WASP. It is no longer the 1940s. Neither the Holocaust nor the circumstances under which Israel was founded give them justification for turning away a refugee who shows up in Tel Aviv simply for being Romani/North Korean/Muslim Chinese/whatever today. They made it explicitly clear from the very beginning that it was a Jewish state and it would accept any Jew. Why should they then be obligated to take in any refugee that bangs on their door? BTW, it turns out they do have a naturalization policy, but no refugee policy. Here in 2014, I trust Germany a lot more than either America or Israel. Good for you. I'd rather make sure there's a place that won't close its doors to any demographic that's fleeing oppression. Once that's done, I'd work on creating another such place. Go for it. After decades of countries closing their doors to you, your immediate response is "I want a country of my own so I can close my doors to everyone else?" Their immediate response was to create a place for their people. If they had the size and resources of the US, or Canada, or Russia, maybe they could've created a country for all refugees. But they don't, so they won't. Don't pretend you don't understand how language works. Maybe you ought to lay off the deliberate exaggerations in the straight statements of your main point. Right of return— no goyim need apply. See above about size and resources, and that they never claimed to be anything other than a Jewish state. That and the need for a "two state solution" to enforce a Jewish majority, Back to the apple. which will doubtless become a "three state solution" if Christianity starts offering a 20% bonus on all good deeds or whatever convinces people to change religions. Generating your own line of shreddable straw men? And they've opened their doors to a worldwide population defined by their choice in food, holidays, and mandatory days off? You've missed the point. They've opened the doors to those of their religion, yes. Just like others have opened the doors to their demographics. A country is a geographical area contained within specific borders. OK, fine. Israel is a geographical area set aside for an entire demographic's worldwide population— a house party to which all of Demographic A is invited, not merely a line down the middle of the house to prevent disputes between its two residents. Because the lines were drawn when Israel was created. Much like the lines were drawn for the Czech Republic at its creation, leaving a majority of Czechs in it (See? Israel isn't the only one.). No, but the fact that racism, sexism, homophobia, and bigotry of all sorts is at an all-time low in spite of their best efforts is. In the US, yes. In Europe and other Westernized countries, probably. In the whole world? NOT SO MUCH. That's a problem everybody in every country should be trying to change. I've had a fairly extended "debate" over this with Chris and I think Spider Pig— the idea of exclusive birthright citizenships (you may not leave the country you were born in without special dispensation) is absurd and obsolete. Good luck changing the human race. No, Israel turns away every oppressed demographic save one. How many Chinese Muslims or Saudi Christians or Afghan atheists or North Koreans of any religious persuasion manage to find safety in Israel? How many of those people have tried to go to Israel? I don't know when you are, but for me it's 2014. Israel exists, South Africa is an independent country, most countries are generally OK with Jews, and Germany bans pro-Nazi advocacy. My demographic? Which one? How many of them are you even aware of? Since you seem to be the one having problems with language now, let me be more explicit: if you were a Jew, and you just lost members of your family and people you know to the Holocaust because they weren't allowed to emigrate, you'd still trust those nations to take you and everybody like you in if you became refugees again numbering in the hundreds of thousands? And since this is a hypothetical situation where you don't like Israel's Law of Return policy, we'll leave that out and you'll have to go through the hoops just like everyone else. There are plenty of countries to flee to if it came to that. That's good - for YOU. What happens if you're going to be in a group like you that numbers in the 6 digits? How many of those countries you mentioned have a record of taking in that many refugees in a short span of time? And BTW, those countries have proved that they WON'T follow through on their refugee policies at least once, when it comes to your group. After all, if Israel is set up as the Jewish State™ and all other countries turn away Jews, then where do the Reform Jews go if Israel decided it's now Orthodox-only? What happens if Israel becomes a dictatorship for reasons completely unrelated to religion, or decides to discriminate based on criteria other than religion? While were going with worst-case hypothetical scenarios which have no bearing on the present, what happens if an asteroid the size of Mt. Hebron were to slam into Israel and wipe it off the face of the planet? No. If they've got enough power, money, and connections to create a country, they should create a country that will accept anyone fleeing from genocide. See above about size and resources. Your view is like from someone who has never known what it's like to have the world turn their back on you. No, I think you have that overly trusting view pretty much cornered. |
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