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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1181794) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:15:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 19:51:36 2014. No, I'm advocating for Israel not incorporating a population sworn to its destruction.Which you believe includes all/most Arabs. You need your eyes checked, because what you have is another apple. So you can't tell the difference between two warring populations dividing their homeland and one country declaring itself a homeland available to anyone on the planet who meets specific arbitrary criteria? They made it explicitly clear from the very beginning that it was a Jewish state and it would accept any Jew. Why should they then be obligated to take in any refugee that bangs on their door? Once again, my point sailed right over your head. OK, suppose you're one of the Jews fleeing from the Nazis. You go to country after country looking for somewhere safe only to be turned away. Your reaction to that appears to be "that's perfectly right and perfectly justified except that they did it to me." Their immediate response was to create a place for their people. As I said. While perfectly expected as an immediate response, it only perpetuates the same problem. See above about size and resources, and that they never claimed to be anything other than a Jewish state. If size and resources are a problem, then a gay Ugandan who will be killed in his home country should take precedence over a Jewish Canadian who thinks he'd get a more prestigious job in Israel. And announcing that you have a double standard is not the same thing as justifying it. Generating your own line of shreddable straw men? How so? If Christians became a majority in Israel, wouldn't the same arguments apply as they do to Muslims? They've opened the doors to those of their religion, yes. Just like others have opened the doors to their demographics. The point is that a population that has suffered a long and painful history of being excluded and turned away should know better than to exclude and turn away. Because the lines were drawn when Israel was created. Much like the lines were drawn for the Czech Republic at its creation, leaving a majority of Czechs in it (See? Israel isn't the only one.). Yes, and how many people who have distant Czech ancestry or identify as Czech are granted "right of return" to the Czech Republic in spite of never having been there? In the US, yes. In Europe and other Westernized countries, probably. In the whole world? NOT SO MUCH. In the whole world, quite a lot. Last I checked, the world includes Western countries, so unless you're claiming the rest of the world has somehow gotten even worse it's a net gain. Moreover, you held up the Republicans as an example that historical progress is being reversed, so you should really be concerned with bigotry in the US— they can't roll back the tide of history even in the country they control. Good luck changing the human race. Thank you. You know you can try doing that too, right? I don't think the Nazis were defeated by people who dismissed them as unchangeable human nature. In fact, the Holocaust would never have happened if a lot more people were a lot less inclined to see bad things as fixed aspects of the human race. How many of those people have tried to go to Israel? If your policy is clear, you can't blame people for accepting it. Point is, would Israel accept them or not? If you were a Jew, and you just lost members of your family and people you know to the Holocaust because they weren't allowed to emigrate, you'd still trust those nations to take you and everybody like you in if you became refugees again numbering in the hundreds of thousands? And Israel can accept that many refugees in such a short time span? Of course, it's moot— I can't have just lost anyone I know in the Holocaust because the Holocaust didn't happen within my lifetime or even that of my parents. If you are proposing that I were in the 1940s, then the entire endeavour becomes moot. That's good - for YOU. What happens if you're going to be in a group like you that numbers in the 6 digits? How many of those countries you mentioned have a record of taking in that many refugees in a short span of time? So Israel can take in hundreds of thousands of refugees in a short time span, but only if they're Jewish? What, does Judaism give you lower per-turn upkeep? Make you tastier to the Foundation? While were going with worst-case hypothetical scenarios which have no bearing on the present, what happens if... ...antisemitism flares up again and produces another genocide campaign? No, I think you have that overly trusting view pretty much cornered. Figures. I'm a fan of a good ironic echo, but you missed the point entirely and let it go to waste. |
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