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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 12:58:41 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 12:46:59 2009. Personally, I think that rapid transit to LGA is overkillHow so? For an airport that handles 23 million pax per year, having no rail service is a travesty. (Lambert-St. Louis airport handles significantly fewer passengers, yet has two light rail lines going right to its terminals.) if you really want to provide a decent service, create an LIRR spur from SHEA to LGA; alternatively, in the event that the City's newest Queens crush actually sees development, branch the Flushing Line, although I'm much more iffy on this, because of the burgeoning development in Flushing and the relatively easy fix with the money that would be blown on an LGA extension of a proper northern Flushing Line terminal Both are reverse spurs and would slow down travel. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 13:04:00 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Dec 26 12:26:38 2009. I'd like to see some light-rail development in NYC. I think the city made a huge mistake in permitting its trolley routes to be motorized during the mid-20th centuryThat would be on Fiorello and Robert. If not for they, then perhaps the conduit-powered PCC would have been in cities other than Washington DC, I'd say. The trolleys were slow, yes, but no more so than today's buses, and they were (and are) much more environmentally friendly. LRV's burn no fossil fuels and emit no greenhouse gases. They have longer service lives than buses, require less maintenance per seat mile, and their tracks and other infrastructure are relatively easy (and inexpensive, compared with subway construction) to build Leave the "climategate" rhetoric out of it, because there are many actual plusses to streetcars. (Leave 5th Avenue for the buses, though; that was their traditional denizen, and as such a curiosity.) |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Dec 26 13:15:41 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 13:04:00 2009. I did point out some other plusses to streetcars, right there in the text you quoted. But the environmental benefits of zero-emission streetcars cannot be blinked, regardless of which side of the "global warming" fence you're on.I agree that Fifth Avenue should remain as it is, although I never understood why the Central Park East segment is a one way street, whereas CPW is two-way... |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Dec 26 13:26:13 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Dec 26 12:12:39 2009. There is no such thing as a "benevolent dictator". Totalitarian rule is, by definition, malevolent and oppressive.That is a matter of opinion. I tend to agree, but it's not that black and white. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 13:50:19 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 11:26:19 2009. The OB line is not a circuitous routing. Yes, in the Glen Cove area and east of Locust Valley the line is slow with plenty of curves, but other than that it has the potential to be a very fast line with a very straight alignment. There's plenty of population to serve between Glen Cove and Roslyn, and you've got south shore level density between Roslyn and Mineola.I live on the PW line too and yeah, one seat to downtown would be nice, but it's far from necessary I agree. I'm not saying build every one seat ride available, but a well deserved upgrade to the OB line will boost the ridership to the levels it really can achieve. Til the time such upgrades can be made, yes, put it on that model with 3 peak trains to NYP. Did the studies account for a 2nd track to Ronkonkoma? If not, then there's another future project that will boost the number of trains. MU service from Babylon via Central Branch is speculation, but we can't speculate? Intra-island service is needed and where else are you going to run those trains to after Mineola? Turn them around on a center track in the middle of rush hour? I don't think so. It may be difficult to develop on LI now, but little by little you'll see it happen. And who said anything about OB HSR? You're making an idiot out of nobody but yourself when you say stupid things like that. All I said was electrify it and bring MAS up to normal electric line level. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 13:59:28 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 26 01:37:15 2009. Goodbye western terminal capacity...at least anything that goes anywhere meaningful. Any service boosts after ESA and NYP fill up will have to go to LIC or GASP BUSHWICK! hahahahaha! Imagine that! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:12:31 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 12:46:59 2009. You don't want to use a subway to get to the airport? Fine, take a cab. Take NY Airport Service. But just because you don't like carrying bags on the train doesn't mean it shouldn't be built. Under that logic JFK Airtrain is useless because you have to carry your bag on the subway or the RR to get to the Airtrain. And serving LGA via the LIRR!? Are you nuts? Have for forgotten that NYP is already at capacity? There's no way in hell the RR could ever provide the headways necessary for an effective airport service. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:14:38 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 11:31:56 2009. Who said I'm trying to send trains everywhere? Have you forgotten that there's 2 colleges and the biggest office park in all of Nassau County, not to mention LIJ, that would be served by this one extension? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:19:16 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Q46 LTD Glen Oaks on Sat Dec 26 05:11:30 2009. A subway extension would be great because you'll see use in both directions during rush hour. You've got Manhattan bound travelers and then you've got folks going to the university and to Lake Success |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:22:54 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 08:00:18 2009. I think Nassau county should be left to the LIRR and NJ left to NJT and PATH. You're trying to do too much with the subway and it won't be able to handle it all. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:39:13 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 25 23:19:59 2009. I was mistaken about what you were saying for the NEC. I thought you meant it started at Dyre and then ran via the NEC the rest of the way to ManhattanAnd pardon me for my opposition to your PW line idea. I just see no rationale behind it. First of all the subway should really just be handling the city, especially before it starts serving Nassau County, which should be left to the RR. A transfer at NYP to the subways is not that difficult and it allows Northern Queens and NW Nassau access to the rest of the region and nation. The costs far outweigh the benefits. As for SI, you don't think the north shore SIRT should be rebuilt? Also, my reasoning for eliminating bus express bus service to downtown is because anyone working downtown could just be using the ferry that is already paid for in full. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:39:56 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 25 23:32:40 2009. Exactly! That's why threads like this are so great! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:44:04 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Dec 26 12:26:38 2009. I still think Bay Ridge line should be used as a beltway rail service between Bay Ridge and New Rochelle. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:47:23 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009. Tren Urbano extended to Convention center. Carolina extension built as Tren Urbano and NOT BRT. Airport line from Minillas to Carolina via the airport, possibly extended to Guaynabo from Minillas later on. Roosevelt Av subway line from Bayamon to the airport. Light rail along Monserrate Av and up PR8 to Hato Rey.Tren Del Sur Commuter rail from San Juan to Aguadilla, where the ROW is almost entirely still available except for in San Juan. C'mon, you guys all knew it was a matter of time before I posted something about Puerto Rico. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:15:01 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 13:59:28 2009. Any service boosts after ESA and NYP fill upThat's 60 trains during the busiest inbound hour, according to LIRR. More than enough. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:16:09 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:12:31 2009. Under that logic JFK Airtrain is useless because you have to carry your bag on the subway or the RR to get to the Airtrain.I have taken LIRR to/from JFK AirTrain; it is much preferable to going via the A/E/J/Z. Just like it's silly to have the bus to LGA from Manhattan double as the 125 St crosstown. And serving LGA via the LIRR!? Are you nuts? Have for forgotten that NYP is already at capacity? There's no way in hell the RR could ever provide the headways necessary for an effective airport service. This is coming from the poster who assures me that LIRR can handle rapid service frequency? Anyhow, you might have heard some talk about this, but there's this new terminal being built by LIRR called ESA. They project 24 tph capacity. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 15:20:40 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:15:01 2009. And what about people who work in downtown Brooklyn? What about the people in Brooklyn who work on the island? Like I said, you've got the A, C, and J. You don't need the Atlantic Av line. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 15:24:39 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:16:09 2009. Where did I ever even hint that LIRR can handle rapid service frequency? Answer: No where.ESA...so what? If everyone can start playing nice, LIRR will shuffle some things around, ESA will get filled and MN will get some slots into NYP for NH trains. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 15:33:02 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:22:54 2009. You're trying to do too much with the subway and it won't be able to handle it all.The subway is a higher-capacity solution than the railroads you propose leaving areas just outside the city boundary to. There *is* core capacity that is massively underutilized. Commuter railroads are for pissant suburban villages that cannot justify any main sequence railroad (subway, regional rail, inter-regional rail, inter-city rail, high-speed rail), but are still in the orbit of somewhere big enough to justify some sort of railroad. There's a need to acknowledge where the urban/suburban boundary is now. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:34:50 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:14:38 2009. Have you forgotten that there's 2 colleges and the biggest office park in all of Nassau County, not to mention LIJ, that would be served by this one extension?Funding. You need a lot of funding for the TBM. Ridership projections? Branching problem? The current end of the Hillside Av Branch being at 179 St? Lower density? Might well be better to aim at an LIE light rail to hit Queens Center-Woodhaven Blvd, Rego Park-Junction Blvd, 90-something St, 108 St, NY Hospital Queens-Main St, Queens College-Kissena Blvd, 164 St, Utopia Pkwy, Francis Lewis Blvd, Queensborough Community College-56 Av. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:37:40 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 13:50:19 2009. The OB line is not a circuitous routing.We're talking about the same alignment? The one that takes the great circle route? The one that doesn't accord with the applicable principle that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line? Everything has the potential to be a very fast, very straight line, if you throw enough money at it. The question is whether throwing that money at the Oyster Bay Branch would be wasteful compared to other options. The Branch was built in a different time for a different purpose as part of a different alignment. There's plenty of population to serve between Glen Cove and Roslyn, and you've got south shore level density between Roslyn and Mineola. It's not merely a question of density, which in most of the areas is rather low. It's rather the question of whether LIRR provides a faster, cheaper commute to get where people in those areas want to go. The answer to that question is found by looking at the loading on the trains. I'm not saying build every one seat ride available, but a well deserved upgrade to the OB line Why is it, in your opinion, well deserved? By what criteria do you measure this desert, and is it an absolute or relative measure? Did the studies account for a 2nd track to Ronkonkoma? Yes; it is thought to be necessary or nearly so for the ESA upgrades to Ronkonkoma service to be implemented, along with Third Track. MU service from Babylon via Central Branch is speculation, but we can't speculate? You can speculate, but LIRR has no plans to electrify, and the ESA service increases proposed are already massive overkill. Everyone knows where the overcrowding problems on LIRR are: reverse peak trains and the easternmost 4 cars on NYP peak trains. Intra-island service is needed It certainly is. But LIRR was not designed with that in mind. It is essentially a commuter railroad. This wouldn't be so bad but for the fact of where most people in Nassau and Suffolk Counties work. Only mixed use walkable development near transit hubs will result in a role for LIRR in more commutes, and that's not on the radar. and where else are you going to run those trains to after Mineola? Turn them around on a center track in the middle of rush hour? I don't think so. The peak directional service? Send it to HPA and/or LIC or else terminate it at Jamaica. It may be difficult to develop on LI now, but little by little you'll see it happen. It's been a few years now, and no progress. Let's see some evidence of progress and I'll reconsider. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:42:34 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 12:58:41 2009. For an airport that handles 23 million pax per year, having no rail service is a travesty.In design of the airport, yes. But the question is about what to do in the coming years, and whether it's a big spending priority ahead of many other projects. Both are reverse spurs and would slow down travel. That is the case, but those seem like the only feasible things other than maybe a Flushing-LGA AirTrain, which is also reverse for a good chunk of travelers. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:49:13 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 15:20:40 2009. And what about people who work in downtown Brooklyn? What about the people in Brooklyn who work on the island?Simple. They can take subway. More frequent, cheaper service. Like I said, you've got the A, C, and J. You don't need the Atlantic Av line. The Atlantic Line is very much underutilized. The fastest, direct connection between two hubs is being run at a frequency barely fast enough to stave off rust, metaphorically speaking. It is important to put that wasted resource to good and frequent use, which means that LIRR should stick to what its mission is: commuter rail. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:51:10 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 15:33:02 2009. There *is* core capacity that is massively underutilized.Yes! Especially within city limits, I might add, even more than outside them. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:57:45 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 15:24:39 2009. Where did I ever even hint that LIRR can handle rapid service frequency?Here. Namely: LIRR needs the Brooklyn line and it is definitely not running empty or anywhere near that. And don't post 2tph as if that's all the line runs all day. Both AM and PM rush hour you have trains coming as often as every 5 minutes, and the longest time between trains I can find is 25 minutes, and that's only once. The line is VERY important for the LIRR and losing it is not a possibility. Please get an idea of what you are talking about before posting lies ESA...so what? Imagine that. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 16:05:31 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Dec 25 22:47:24 2009. but you'll never get me on FBA.Yes, at least we agree on the real reason for our disagreement: nostalgia. For one you've got people working in downtown Brooklyn. Are these people not allowed to take the subway? Second, the west end terminal capacity is needed now and will always be needed, end of story. LIRR has no shortage of western terminal capacity. Not now, not in the foreseeable future. They actually have a shortage of EMUs to run the service that they propose, no doubt because it's overkill. 3rd, if you believe in magic, commuter rail to downtown would have to be via FBA. First, with the WTC debacle and the FBA renovation, that train left the terminal a few years ago; it's not coming back. Second, people will have a fast, cheap ride to downtown and better connectivity. With the subway. That line should never EVER be taken from LIRR. There is no 11th commandment saying that LIRR should be allowed to largely waste a precious resource of value to millions for the benefit of a few thousand who desire longer one-seat rides. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 26 16:14:22 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 10:21:28 2009. Here's a screenshot of the version for older 386 machines and 256 Megs of memory ... runs from a CDROM, no hard disk required OR you can just leave windows on the hard disk and run this completely separately. Since the entire thing runs off the CD, it's impossible for a virus to do any writing at all ... that's security and then some.
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Posted by Q46 LTD Glen Oaks on Sat Dec 26 16:27:53 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:19:16 2009. Yes but the NIMBY would flip out about Union Tpke and houses getting torn up for the line. You put a 3 track light rail on the street ( for express peak service) and you kill the Q46 with a faster ride |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Dec 26 16:34:32 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 23 20:17:14 2009. And the Lexington el was running, when the tracks were closed, west of Bridge- Jay, on March 5th, 1944. The Brooklyn Bridge tracks could only handle wooden el cars, not steel subway cars. And where would you put the track structures? The 2 former tracks are now the left vehicular lanes in each direction. |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Sat Dec 26 16:42:03 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009. I guess I'll chime in:An expansion of the Grand Boulevard and Concourse Subway from three tracks to four tracks, with 161 St - Yankee Stadium converted to an express stop. The (B) would run via local and terminate at Bedford Park Blvd, while the (D) runs via express and is extended eastward via Burke Ave, Gun Hill Rd, and Bartow Ave to a new terminal at Bay Plaza. The extension features four new stations: Burke Ave (connection to (2) train), Boston Rd (connection to W60/W61 buses), Seymour Ave (connection to (5) train and Bx31 bus), and Baychester Ave - Bay Plaza. The combined expansion and extension of the Concourse Line will ensure complete renovation of the entire line, plus stimulation of demand by way of the (D) extension, combined (B)/(D) service on Concourse, and connection to various local buses; the connection to the (5) at Seymour Ave may also lure some express bus riders onto the subway. *** Regarding SAS, I also believe a branch via 3rd Ave in The Bronx to Fordham Plaza should be built. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 16:43:18 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:37:40 2009. I'm talking about the one and only OB branch. I don't know if your confused, but take a look at it on google maps. The line is damn near arrow straight from the curve at Nassau to Roslyn, and is fairly straight through Glen Head to Sea Cliff, overall a good portion of the line. Yes, the line cuts a little north between OB and Locust Valley, but it's hardly a circle. If anything, you're talking about the West Hempstead line. And what was this different purpose and different alignment when it was built?"It's not merely a question of density, which in most of the areas is rather low. It's rather the question of whether LIRR provides a faster, cheaper commute to get where people in those areas want to go. The answer to that question is found by looking at the loading on the trains." -First of all, take a look again. The area is almost as dense as the PW line between Manhasset and Port Washington, which gets significant ridership. And as I said before, south of Roslyn, the density is at the same level as the south shore. Just look at google maps satellite view. And you're right, the answer currently is no, LIRR does not do what those people want. Why? Because the line is painfully slow for no reason at all, so everyone who can instead drives to either Syosset or Manhasset. Electrify it and you'll see ridership numbers jump. That's all that needs to be done. No straightening out no nothing else. Electrify, that's all. And BTW, LIRR was in fact originally designed with intra-island commuting services. There were trains running from Oyster Bay to Valley Stream via Mineola/CLP/WH, trains from Greenport to Bridgehampton via Manorville, etc. That infrastructure was all destroyed with no vision for the future, and is now sorely needed today. That's why I'm saying discounting things that aren't currently on the table is a BIG mistake and will only serve to screw us in the future. HPA and LIC aren't where people want to go. Brooklyn, however, is a destination. Some of these massive development projects stall for years at a time, but Wang owns the Coliseum so it's not like he's just some hopeful with no other ties to the area. If there's any hope of development in that area, it's through him. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 16:47:33 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Dec 26 16:34:32 2009. I'm not the one calling for restoration of the el on the Brooklyn Bridge. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 26 16:49:35 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 10:21:28 2009. And here's a screenshot on a modern machine with only 768 megs of memory of the latest version running from a DVD. Again, nothing on the hard drive other than the existing Windows install which I no longer use, everything runs in memory and *cannot* be infected and the DVD cannot be written to. A USB stick can be used if you want to store stuff online. The plan is to have the system connect to a cloud server for storage and retrieval. Sorry you have doubts, but everything I offer is very much for real ... Proposed price per copy is under $20, and for corporate/military use, a toolkit is provided to make your own so you can be certain of the safety and origin of each and every piece before distribution ... I think it's a major step forward, but getting financing to put it all together and get it out there is not yet happening. And here's a video done on that video editor: |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 16:53:25 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:49:13 2009. So now instead of just having a RR ticket, those commuters must now also have a metrocard? Let's do the math. A Monthly ticket is $200 from Mineola to FBA. Mineola to Jamaica is $150 plus $89 for a monthly metrocard. That's not cheaper.Atlantic line should never EVER be taken from the RR, period. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 17:02:02 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 16:05:31 2009. Nostalgia? Get the F out of here if you think I'm going off anything but nostalgia. Please, that's insulting. The facts are simple, the RR needs that line for future capacity (HPA/LIC are not places people want to go, Brooklyn is). Replacing it with a subway service will cost these commuters MORE money, and it will NOT save them any time. The only people who are saved time are those living between Jamaica and FBA. People coming from/going to points east of Jamaica still have to wait for the LIRR, plus now they're losing their one seat ride. Sounds like a total downgrade of service to me. The ONLY people who benefit are those living and working west of Jamaica.Millions vs a few thousand? Spare us the bullshit. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 17:05:50 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:57:45 2009. You are great at turning peoples words around. That statement is simply showing what LIRR is doing CURRENTLY. Guess what, it's even more hectic on the mainline! So if I had posted mainline headways as they currently are am I all of a sudden claiming that LIRR can run rapid service everywhere? No! Am I suggesting that they should? NO! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 17:10:35 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:34:50 2009. That completely misses Lake Success, a giant source of reverse commuters that currently have HORRIBLE mass transit access. And I was suggesting it as operating via LIE to Queens College, then down to St Johns, then over to Lake Success. It would operate elevated via the LIE and at grade along the LIMP ROW, so that's a portion of the branch not requiring a TBM.As for branching, I was proposing this as a branch off a new super express operating along the LIRR main line which would be tied into SAS...hey...it's a wish list! |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 17:13:04 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 15:33:02 2009. Yes, infrastructure wise the subway absolutely is higher capacity, but with all the people it is serving plus all the people it would be serving as it closes in on the Nassau County border, will there still be enough space to effectively serve Nassau County residents? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 17:46:09 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 15:33:02 2009. Commuter railroads are for pissant suburban villages that cannot justify any main sequence railroadSo you'd ride a subway over 50 miles? I think not. NJ Transit's NEC serves cities rather than suburbs. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 17:48:56 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Q46 LTD Glen Oaks on Sat Dec 26 16:27:53 2009. What houses are getting torn up? Elevated over LIE to Queens College, TBM under St Johns and Union Tpke to Francis Lewis Blvd, and then at grade along LIMP ROW, then TBM to Lake Success. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 26 20:00:27 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 14:39:13 2009. Fair enough. I agree that the city needs to be well-covered by the subway (of service to NE Queens would have been covered by my idea).But I do think that the 7 suffers from terrible overcrowding with a lot of it coming at the very first stop. It needs relief. Perhaps that relief can come in the form of a rush-hour LIRR service that can short-turn somewhere in Queens and operate in addition to the existing PW service. The Murray Hill station has space between the two tracks. Perhaps a turn-back track can constructed there so trains can terminate at Flushing and relay on that track. What I would really like to see, though, is for Murray Hill (or possibly Broadway which is elevated over a wide space) to be rebuilt into a three-track station with a pocket track for this "7 relief" service. It could even be operated into Grand Central terminal as part of the LIRR ESA services. "As for SI, you don't think the north shore SIRT should be rebuilt?" Of course I do. I just think it and the existing south shore SIRT should go beyond St. George and into Manhattan. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 20:28:51 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 26 20:00:27 2009. But I do think that the 7 suffers from terrible overcrowding with a lot of it coming at the very first stop. It needs reliefIs it more crowded than Tokyo's subways?  |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 20:39:01 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 26 20:00:27 2009. I definitely agree with trying to ease crowding on the 7. I know the RR is looking into reopening Elmhurst station. I've also wondered if it would be possible to add another few trains that would operate from Bayside (Bay interlocking can be used to turn the trains). |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Dec 26 21:06:44 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 26 16:49:35 2009. Just out of sheer curiosity, did you write the OS from scratch or did you fork the source code and window manager from an existing open source operating system? Plus, what makes your setup different than running a Live CD of another existing open source OS? Coincidentally, I could easily see this set up for set-top boxes in corporate use, but I don't see this for home use.**Well, it doesn't run Photoshop and iTunes, duh. :-) |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Dec 26 21:22:14 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 15:37:40 2009. The question is whether throwing that money at the Oyster Bay Branch would be wasteful compared to other options.In private chats, I discussed the idea of electrifying the Oyster Bay Branch with 25kV catenary primarily to kill off the entire diesel network. Presuming future electrification, eventually the diesel fleet will become smaller and smaller, with higher capital costs and operating costs as less units are needed, and eventually the point may come where the LIRR isn't interested in maintaining a few locomotives for the meager ridership to Oyster Bay or Greenport. Only mixed use walkable development near transit hubs will result in a role for LIRR in more commutes, and that's not on the radar. I happen to work in Garden City, and arguably, via Mineola station, it's really the only place that's walkable from an LIRR station with offices nearby. As a matter of policy, it would be nice to see some trains from the East* stop there, but as you pointed out, since choice riders are unwilling to ride a shuttle bus, most LI employment destinations are useless for commuting even for those near the railway. The sad part is that Long Island's town and village governments are unwilling to develop anything resembling a TOD whether for residential and commercial real estate out of the desire to pander to local residents who fear "more crowding" and turning into the county on one's west border**. It's sad that there's no equivalent of Metropark, Stamford, or White Plains on Long Island. *Coincidentally, it's the best point to transfer for mall employees headed to Roosevelt Field. The downside is that the riders who would do that don't earn enough to pay for the railroad fares and those that do can buy a car regardless of their driving skills. **Queens suffers from this too, hence why many residents of Eastern Queens successfully secured down zoning to keep out multi-family dwellings. Of course, in all three counties, the illegal apartment seems to be the market's means of dealing with the lack of real estate properties. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 26 21:33:09 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Dec 26 21:06:44 2009. It derives from the latest BSD 8.0 kernel, and required quite a bit of modification in order to function without the need to write. Gnome was also modified for the purpose and the whole thing runs entirely in memory. Hundreds and hundreds of modifications plus optimization, compressed MFS file system and the ability to remote mount a server, all from a DVD which is bootable. No installation whatsoever to hard disk although it will allow you to READ ONLY from the hard disk if you want if there's a Windows system on the hard disk and the hard disk is still on the machine. Otherwise no hard disk at all required or it can be run on a totally infected machine that won't even boot.No iTunes, but it DOES have gtkpod which will allow you to sync or use an iPod or iPhone, also supports Palm and RIM devices, bluetooth, etc. Comes with the FULL version of the latest GIMP which runs rings around Adobe's stuff, and about 700 other full applications. It does all the MS Office stuff right down to power point, comes with fully loaded CUPS printing, games, will actually run old fashioned DOS stuff (can't do that on Windows anymore), has WINE to run Windows apps, and even will boot on a Macintosh too. It's not envisioned as a "home computer" although it's the perfect thing to let the kids surf the intertubes on without worries about what they might do to the machine but yes - it's PRIMARY intended use is for netbooks, laptops in a corporate "travel" environment, military and commercial use as well as in medical use to comply with the strictest of HIPAA regulations. It's designed to connect to an ISP with home page and remote file system, or with a secure USB stick for any storage needs. And like I said, the actual product is the toolkit which would allow a commercial user to make spsecialized, custom disks for their own distribution - the OS is merely the output product of the tool. But yeah, the names are different but we DO Photoshop and iTune like stuff. Only downside is gaming, but somehow I think corporate users will appreciate that lacking. :) |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Dec 26 21:35:51 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 26 12:31:45 2009. Queens railway, as you colorfully call it,Eh, it makes more sense given that a sizable bit of the trackage runs under Northern Blvd, Broadway, and Hillside Avenues... Mostly our capacity problems in NYCT have to do with terminals, and there it is a capital issue, but pretty much only there. Presuming current operating rules (i.e no key-by and passenger fumigation at terminals*), how much more can be squeezed out of the Queens Railway if we improve the terminal design? *Isn't the easiest way around this is for crews to have both crews on the train when the run ends on the Northbound platform in lieu of having the T/O walk from one end to another? |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Sat Dec 26 21:36:12 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 25 20:30:18 2009. I have no problem either, except that you are just not open to a concept that you didn't think of yourself. If you can't get what I'm sayin, and this is the second time I'm saying this, just let it go. I know you are capable of doing it. Just don't respond. YOUR respnse makes no sense to me because you are keeping your mind closed to things you refuse to consider. Bye. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sat Dec 26 21:46:29 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009. http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104471795667235493331.00047ba9b630305e803ab&ll=40.762991,-73.981762&spn=0.063579,0.154324&z=13Here's my map with extensions drawn off the end of the existing lines. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 26 22:07:00 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 26 20:28:51 2009. Is any subway line (or commuter rail line for that matter) in New York more crowded than Tokyo's subways? If not, does that mean we should build nothing? Are you saying we should just accept our system for what it currently is and just leave it that way? I hope not. |
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