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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Dec 24 01:11:36 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009. Wish list, huh? New three and four track elevated lines in Brooklyn, along Kings Highway(3), Utica Avenue(3), Fifth Avenue(3) and Linden Boulevard(4). New four track tunnel connection from Sea Beach line to Newark. Streetcar lines replacing bus lines. And stuff... |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 24 03:02:54 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by kp5308 on Wed Dec 23 19:42:09 2009. Them's Cighton words, chum :Dyour pal, Fred |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 06:02:33 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 23 19:21:12 2009. Allentown extension. (Connect with SEPTA there.)Reinstitute trains like the Queen Of The Valley, Scranton Flyer and Black Diamond on Amtrak, too . . . |
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Re: TEAR DOWN ASTORIA (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Dec 24 06:56:20 2009, in response to TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Dec 23 19:49:57 2009. And this is the other solution: comprehensive redevelopment. Could probably fund the line that way too... ;-) |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 08:13:53 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 23 20:00:47 2009. Turn all the remaining els into subways. (Except for the IRT at 125th Street, the new els in the Rockaways and the F at Smith/9th.) Since the Brighton (technically i.e. mostly), Sea Beach and Dyre Avenue line aren't els, they stay above ground; same with the former LIRR Rockaway line through Ozone Park, Howard Beach and Broad Channel. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 10:20:09 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Dec 23 20:32:42 2009. Like Beech? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 10:22:39 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Nilet on Wed Dec 23 15:20:19 2009. By the time we have all of that, travel except for vacations will be obsolete and the lines will be empty because everyone will be telecommuting and teleconferencing. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 10:40:48 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 10:22:39 2009. How do you "telecommute" and "teleconference" manufacturing and agriculture? |
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Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:05:24 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list?, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 23 18:53:14 2009. Wrong, it was the other way around. The first plan in the late 60s was to go down Flatbush and extend the New Lots Line to Starrett City. Then it was changed instead to two lines, one down Nostrand to Ave W, and another down Utica to Kings Plaza and the New Lots extension was abandoned.Of course there were earlier proposals for Utica And Nostrand Lines also. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:08:16 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by italianstallion on Wed Dec 23 20:16:35 2009. The station purposely was built away from Ditmars so the line could turn onto Ditmars and be extended. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 24 11:14:19 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by randyo on Wed Dec 23 18:50:07 2009. The original plan was for the Archer Av Line to operate over a reclaimed portion of the LIRR ROW.Yes, that is correct. Well, except for the 'reclaimed' part, I guess. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:40:44 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 10:40:48 2009. Yes, there are a lot of farmers riding the subways.I wasn't talking about freight. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 12:01:29 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 14:07:51 2009. According to the MTA there is.From 2003 to 2006, the New York Metropolitan Transportaion Council performed a long term comprehensive transportation planning study for Southern Brooklyn (but also included short term improvements to including all modes of travel except air (but including freight) in which NYC DOT and the MTA participated. One feature of the study was to have much community participation. I must have attended ten of those meetings which turned out to be a complete waste of time and $6 million because absolutely nothing was accomplished. A wish list was created which included some of the ideas included in this thread. The MTA stated that they had no money to consider any rapid transit improvements. The community agreed but responded we are talking about 30 years into the future so why can't there be a wish list when the money does become available?. The MTA responded that other than was aleady started, they had no intention of considering even studying the need for any other new lines and that included reactivating the Bay Ridge Line where the right of way already exists and only station, track and equipment would be needed. Not only that, they also refused to consider any bus route changes brought forth by the public for the short term. So what happens? The entire conclusion of the study was to propose some bikeways and conclude after an economic study that any new ferry services could not pay for themselves and therefore should not be built. They were completely ignored and now the City is once again considering a demonstration of new ferry lines which Congess has appropriated funds for. Now $6 million doesn't buy much these days, but any other use of that money would have been more worth while. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 24 12:11:46 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009. Tear down the (V) train! |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 24 12:14:00 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:08:16 2009. So that explains it. I never knew that. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Dec 24 12:52:53 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Dec 23 17:17:19 2009. Actually, there is an error in that FNY page. The page says that both Woodhaven stations closed in the 1960's. The upper level Woodhaven station closed in 1962 but the lower one closed in 1976, only to speed service on the Atlantic branch. |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Dec 24 13:01:06 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Dec 23 20:00:15 2009. Cool, I am so glad I started this post. It is so interesting what people are thinking. |
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Posted by caine515 on Thu Dec 24 14:01:16 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by lrg5784 on Wed Dec 23 13:54:04 2009. the only ones i can see are these 3:extension of "7" line to Javits Center LIRR to Grand Central Terminal "Q"-2nd avenue subway. 96th St to 63rd-they will run out of money for anything other than this. |
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Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:06:44 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:05:24 2009. The original plan predates the 1960s and it's documented. That's why Flatbush Av station is built with 2 outside platforms. It was never intended to be a permanent terminal although that's the way it turned out. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:08:53 2009, in response to TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Dec 23 19:49:57 2009. The way the economy is now, if money is found to do the extension, it will be done in order to provide JOBS!!!! |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:10:35 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Dec 23 20:00:15 2009. Some of those were actually proposed when the IND was planned. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Dec 24 14:18:37 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:08:53 2009. You don't know Astorians - they will lay down in the street, tie themselves to the bents, and do whatever it takes to stop that El from expanding. It simply will never happen. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 14:24:27 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:08:53 2009. Yeah, that worked in the Bronx, right?The people who vote on these things already have jobs. Unless unemployment reaches 40-50 percent, when the jobless outnumber the employed, don't expect much to change. Boy, could this country use a 10 year reign of a benevolent dictator. Get rid of the crap, restore the democracy. It worked in Rome for 300 years! |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 24 14:32:24 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Dec 24 12:52:53 2009. The upper level Woodhaven station closed in 1962 but the lower one closed in 1976, only to speed service on the Atlantic branch.Thank you for the note. From the web, it looks like the Rockaway Branch station closed either on June 8 or 9, 1962. The Atlantic Line station looks to have closed on January 10, 1977. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 15:48:04 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by BMTLines on Thu Dec 24 14:18:37 2009. It will if their very survival depends on it! |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:02:45 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 14:24:27 2009. No such thing as a benevolent dictator. What's needed is a strong president with no left-wing tendencies that sticks to the Constitution and actually leads instead of follows.As for Rome, after Julius, the Caesars varied between figureheads and outright dictators for about as long as the empire lasted. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:09:17 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 11:40:44 2009. You can't telecommute and teleconference the financial sector either. I also mentioned manufacturing. Your unlikely portrayal has the city emptied, and nobody riding NJT or LIRR either. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:10:02 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 23 19:50:29 2009. They're already capable of better than that. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 16:41:33 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:02:45 2009. I was referring to the Republic. Under Roman law, a consul could be given dictatorial powers for a period of 6 months to a year in times of national crisis. Which was odd, since the Roman Senate really never had any official powers. |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Ed Alfonsin on Thu Dec 24 16:45:40 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:02:45 2009. Don't forget that Julius Caesar was never an emperor. Augustus was the first (who screwed up the calendar by adding an extra day to August after he changed its name to honor himself).To keep on topic, "Jersey" (as in "New Jersey Transit") is an alternate earlier English form of "Caesar," which makes New Jersey the only state named after a Roman leader. Merry Christmas and keep the voltage flowing in 2010. Ed Alfonsin Potsdam, New York |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 17:06:40 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Ed Alfonsin on Thu Dec 24 16:45:40 2009. Don't forget that Julius Caesar was never an emperor.That's the sort of factoid that we history buffs like to use to demonstrate outr awesome knowledge of the past and to ridicule the ignorant masses who don't know any better. Augustus was the first Oh, no. I thought you were part of the club, but this renders you ineligible. Augustus never took the title of Caesar, he always attempted to maintain the facade of Republicanism. When he wasn't serving as Consul, he was addressed as Principes, Latin for "first citizen", which technically gave him no powers (in reality, he ran the show entirely until he died). |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by BMTLines on Thu Dec 24 18:45:12 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 15:48:04 2009. Trust me - will never happen. Seriously there is too much opposition to it and I cannot see a scenario where Astoria's survival will ever depend on expansion of the El.Besides it will only serve people traveling between Manhattan and LGA - there is nothing in it for Astorians. A stop on 21st Avenue/Steinway or Ditmars/Steinway would be useless since the Steinway shopping district is about a mile away between 30th Ave and Broadway |
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Posted by Gene B. on Thu Dec 24 19:22:02 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Grand Concourse on Wed Dec 23 20:00:15 2009. I like the idea of connecting the E WTC terminal to the BMT Broadway line as you suggested. However, I would like to see a line run from Bay Parkway up 8th Avenue to Washington Heights instead of to Queens. That would be a one-seat service that was in the BMT's plans (thwarted by Hylan) to build north of 57th street through to the Upper West Side. |
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Caesareans (was: Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Ed Alfonsin on Thu Dec 24 20:23:25 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 17:06:40 2009. I wasn't ridiculing anyone, just clarifying. (I've been doing the same thing for the last week with the people who think we're ending the first decade of the twenty-first century next week.) Educating is not ridicule, though it's hard not to laugh at the numbers of people who think Joan of Arc was Noah's wife.Augustus was emperor; I think you'll find "Imperator" on coins. I didn't say he used "Caesar" as a title though he may have changed his name later in life to incorporate the Caesar family name. Of course, later rulers in Rome and elsewhere, did use "Caesar" ('Kaiser' in German and 'Tsar' in Russian are the same word). "Principes" is plural, so it's doubtful he used that form. Some of this stuff is like explaining how the BMT had northbound and southbound trains on the same track going from Chambers to Broad. 8-) Merry and Happy regardless. Ed Alfonsin Potsdam, New York |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 24 20:27:45 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 24 17:06:40 2009. princeps is the correct spelling |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by 156n3rd on Thu Dec 24 21:30:40 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:10:02 2009. Fine, but they're BLAH to loo at, yuk! |
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 24 22:20:10 2009, in response to Future expansion wish list?, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Dec 23 13:49:32 2009.  Click the above graphic to view the map, and here for the guide explaining it all. And for those who'd prefer a list: *7 extended to 23 St-11 Av *CityTicket expanded to all off-peak hours providing residents in outlying areas an easier way to get around *Queens Boulevard Line extended down Hillside Avenue *Jamaica Line expanded to four tracks to increase attractiveness *Express tracks restored on Sea Beach *Second Avenue Subway built full length/width, and then some. *Lower Montauk put to better use to give riders along the Myrtle Avenue Line another place to bail for an actual line. *Too many more to list here, look at the map |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Thu Dec 24 22:21:15 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Thu Dec 24 11:14:19 2009. Why not over it? A modern El like Airtrain will not be so noisy. |
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Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 23:00:20 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion pipe-dream list?, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 24 14:06:44 2009. I never disputed that. We were talking about the plans of the 1960s, not the plans before then. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 23:02:15 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 16:09:17 2009. You don't think that telecommuting and teleconferencing will be more prevalent in the future with fewer people having to go to the office 5 days a week or go to the office at all? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 24 23:05:45 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 24 22:20:10 2009. Nice map despite the (G) truncation. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 24 23:13:46 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 23:02:15 2009. Not in Olog's world ... :)
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Posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 24 23:15:36 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 24 23:05:45 2009. Thanks. It had to be done to get the on weekends, but as a trade off, longer trains and more frequent service.
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:31:15 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kriston Lewis on Thu Dec 24 22:20:10 2009. 7 extended to 23 St-11 AvNope, not good enough. Got to go to Weehawken at least to connect with HBLR. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:31:58 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Dec 24 23:02:15 2009. No. Not with hackers eavesdropping and stealing company secrets . . . |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:33:15 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Dec 24 23:13:46 2009. We're already at the place where terrorists have hacked our military drones. Security's going to make all of this teleconferencing and telecommuting the domain of richer and richer . . . |
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Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:39:27 2009, in response to Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Ed Alfonsin on Thu Dec 24 16:45:40 2009. Don't forget that Julius Caesar was never an emperorHe was given the title "Imperator". (That title existed in the Roman Republic too.) To keep on topic, "Jersey" (as in "New Jersey Transit") is an alternate earlier English form of "Caesar," which makes New Jersey the only state named after a Roman leader False. The name "Jersey" is of Viking origin, with Celtic influence. Got two in a row wrong. Do you just invent this stuff in your head? |
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Re: Caesareans (was: Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:44:10 2009, in response to Caesareans (was: Re: TEAR DOWN THE ASTORIA EL (Was: Future expansion wish list?), posted by Ed Alfonsin on Thu Dec 24 20:23:25 2009. Educating is not ridiculeIt is if you're amiss in your facts. Of course, later rulers in Rome and elsewhere, did use "Caesar" ('Kaiser' in German and 'Tsar' in Russian are the same word) Modern German renders Caesar as "Cesar" (pronounced "Tsezar"). "Kaiser" is indeed cognate with the Latin pronunciation for Caesar though. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 24 23:45:20 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by 156n3rd on Thu Dec 24 21:30:40 2009. Who cares how they look. I just worry about how they run. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Dec 25 00:44:50 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Wed Dec 23 14:19:44 2009. I'm not so sure that the LIRR can afford the loss there. |
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