|
|
| Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven (309839) | |
 |
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 18 of 22 |
||
|
| (311565) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 12:01:43 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 11:27:13 2016. Not true. All along Cross bay there is no reduction in bus lanes."Your statement is not true. Two alternatives were put forth. One with narrowing the lanes and the other with keeping the lanes the same width but eliminating all left turn bays. To accomplish to first, the speed limit would have to be lowered to 20 or 25 mph because faster speeds would not be safe. A tractor trailer currently barely fits into the existing traffic lanes. The second option would greatly delay traffic as cars would be stuck vehicles d any car making a left turn at numerous cross streets. The second option is what they appear to have picked. Not too big of an issue. Traffic on cross bay is roughly half what it is at the peak of Woodhaven, so I don't see why the left turns would be that big of an issue. "To say lanes are not being removed throughout is plainly misleading since lanes are being removed for 3.5 out of the 4 miles between Queens Blvd and Rockaway Blvd," And why only count the 3.5 out of 4 miles between Queens Boulevard and Rockaway Boulevard? because it allows you to mislead? Oh wait! I know! because you are trying to make the number look artificially big. Either way, it is 3.3 out of those 4 miles. But... 3.3 out of the 10.8 total miles of the total Woodhaven-Cross Bay Blvd route. Who is being misleading here? "Trottenberg stated that depending on the results of Phase 1, they will then decide whether or not to proceed with Phase 2. When I spoke to her on March 4th, I asked her why I never received a response to my letter suggesting they only go ahead with Phase 1 (with modifications) and drop Phase 2. She told me "you might get what your wish." That doesn't sound to me like Phase 2 is a definite. The federal funds necessary have not yet been procured." Sounds like a professional trying to assuage a nutjob that keeps annoying them. |
|
|
| (311566) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 12:03:13 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 11:29:36 2016. Assuming there is a net total of more cars going on the Van Wyck, that could be true.Not a safe assumption to make. |
|
|
| (311567) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Mar 15 12:17:45 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:31:11 2016. There are three choices from Sherpshead Bay to Woodside and vicinity. (1) The BQE (2) Pennsylvania/Jackie Robinson/Woodhaven/Queens Blvd/ BQE to Woodside or (3) Belt to Woodhaven to Queens Boulevard.I made that trip daily for nine years and knew at which times of the day which one was the best route depending on traffic conditions. I used all three of this routes also (4) Ocean Parkway as a fourth alternative. A fifth was Ocean Avenue to Empire Blvd to Rogers/Bedford to the BQE which I also used at times. None of them are as good as Nostrand Ave ==> Kings Highway ===> Howard Ave ===> Eastern Parkway Ext. ===> Bushwick ===> Jackie Robinson ====> Myrtle Ave ===> 80th Street ===> Metropolitan Ave ====> 69th Street, right into Woodside. Probably a lot better than any of your five options during the day and evening. |
|
|
| (311568) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:27:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 21:37:00 2016. Looks like you can't read, not me.You say you didn't "say anywhere the THE purpose is to speed up buses." But that is exactly what you said HERE: I asked what the purpose of exclusive lanes and you responded: "Speed up buses AND make them more reliable by reducing interference from other vehicles." You used the words "SPEED UP BUSES." Now you deny you said that. Definite or indefinite article has nothing to do with anything. Why do I waste my time with your utter nonsense and backtracking? |
|
|
| (311569) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:29:27 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 11:29:14 2016. I did and 24 hour data IS NECESSARY FOR A PROPOSAL ENCOMPASSING 24 HOURS.How many times do I have to state the exact same thing? And you claim to understand data collection and analysis. You are just a bad joke. |
|
|
| (311570) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:50:52 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 11:41:08 2016. Obviously false in your mind. You are the one who is making obviously false statements not me.A proposal for the peak hour requires peak hour data. A proposal for the peak three hours requires three hour peak data. A 24 hour 7 days per week proposal requires 24 hour 7 days a week data and if there are seasonal fluctuations additional data is also needed. To say that a 24 hour 7 day a week proposal only requires data for one peak hour a day IS TOTALLY FALSE. That much is plainly obvious. What you say about not having to analyze parallel routes but "just looking at it" makes no sense. So you are now saying that SBS increased the average trip length now? That may make sense if ridership went up. BUT IT WENT DOWN. So you must np e saying that SBS discouraged short distance trips. If so, where did they go? Certainly not to parallel routes. So they must have gone to car services. That certainly doesn't signify success. And talking about bus travel time savings you are only considering the times on the buses. You are ignoring extra walking distances and the greater possibility of missing a bus and waiting for the next one. SO YOUR TEN PERCENT REDUCTION is skewed and doesn't tell the entire story such as those with longer trips by passengers previously using the Limited and now switching to the local since the introduction of SBS. Anyone traveling to Kings County and Downstate Medical Center, two heavy traffic generators were just some of the populations who were hurt. They obviously did no calculations when they eliminated Avenue L and residents had to fight for a year to get it back. And when the closest SBS stop is a half mile away, SBS is not accessible. The counts certainly do exist. They are right here: http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/05/mta-incompetently-operating-b44-b36-part-2-2/ |
|
|
| (311571) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:52:51 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 11:41:51 2016. So you are saying that every road, paved or not is a HIGHWAY.If that is the case, why just not use the word "road"? Are you saying roads and highways are synonymous? |
|
|
| (311572) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:58:09 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Tue Mar 15 11:53:37 2016. So for example Broadway in Manhattan including the portions used as a pedestrian plaza from curb to curb is considered a "highway"? Is that how you read it? |
|
|
| (311573) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:07:22 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 12:01:43 2016. Your quotes are all screwed up. You stated the first line. Not me.So you are accusing yourself of not making a true statement. Where do you see traffic on Cross Bay being half of Woodhaven? And where did they choose Option 2 for Cross Bay to eliminate left turn bays? If you are going to make statements, you need to back them up. No option has yet been chosen. Counting both bridges which accounts for a good percentage of the route is thoroughly misleading. It makes perfect sense to consider Woodhaven Boukevard as a separate entity when speaking about Kane's being eliminated which is what I have done. "Sounds like a professional trying to assuage a nut job that keeps annoying them." Thanks for finally admitting that DOT tells people what they want to hear even if it is not true proving they cannot be trusted. |
|
|
| (311574) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:08:09 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:27:24 2016. "Looks like you can't read, not me."No. "You say you didn't "say anywhere the THE purpose is to speed up buses."" Correct. I did not. "But that is exactly what you said HERE: I asked what the purpose of exclusive lanes and you responded: "Speed up buses AND make them more reliable by reducing interference from other vehicles."" Correct. That is exactly what I said. "You used the words "SPEED UP BUSES."" Correct. "Now you deny you said that." Incorrect. I never said that speeding up buses was not a purpose of bus lanes. "Definite or indefinite article has nothing to do with anything." It has a great deal to do with this. The fact that you do not know the difference is key to your misunderstanding of this issue. Speeding up buses is A reason for bus lanes. Speeding up buses is not THE reason for bus lanes. "Why do I waste my time with your utter nonsense and backtracking?" Why are you functionally illiterate? |
|
|
| (311575) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:08:32 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 12:03:13 2016. If Woodhaven is slowed down to the point that it is no longer faster than the Van Wyck, it is quite a safe assumption to make. |
|
|
| (311576) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:10:05 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:29:27 2016. "I did and 24 hour data IS NECESSARY FOR A PROPOSAL ENCOMPASSING 24 HOURS."No. 24 hour totals are absolutely useless for anything at all. looking at full day data is really only useful for identifying the peak. "How many times do I have to state the exact same thing?" Somewhere between 0 and infinity. The number of times you say something does not change the fact that it is just absolutely wrong. "And you claim to understand data collection and analysis." Yes. "You are just a bad joke." Nice self projection buddy :) |
|
|
| (311577) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:17:55 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Mar 15 12:17:45 2016. I did try Ocean Ave to Kings Highway, Howard, Eastern Parkway, Bushwick, Jackie Robinson to Woodhaven Queens Boulevard, BQE, Broadway many times.On other occasions I used Woodhaven to 63 Avenue to 80 Street to LIE. Service Road to 69 Street to Woodside. Both cases were time consuming and slower than Woidhaven except when Woodhaven was severely backed up. They were far from quick and no faster than the other alternatives I outlined. The problem was not the traffic because the streets were not heavily used. The problem was the lack of traffic signal synchronization and frequent turns causing many extra red signals. Kings Highway is not synchronized in the peak direction. You just stop for a red light about every three blocks and that greatly increases the travel time over the alternatives I mentioned. |
|
|
| (311578) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:24:22 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:08:09 2016. Let's put this in context.I stated that bus speeds would not be made faster during the off-peak so there is no reason to have them. You responded that speeding up buses is not the only reason for bus lanes. So I asked you whether the purpose of a bus lane during the off-peak was to slow down cars. You responded it wasn't. So you still never answered the question why bus lanes are necessary in the off-peak. So to summarize, you state speeding up buses is a purpose of bus lanes but admit bus speeds would not improve during the off-peak as a result of bus lanes. So answer the question why do we need bus lanes in the off-peak instead of talking in circles. |
|
|
| (311579) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:29:12 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:50:52 2016. "Obviously false in your mind. You are the one who is making obviously false statements not me."LOL. "A proposal for the peak hour requires peak hour data. A proposal for the peak three hours requires three hour peak data. A 24 hour 7 days per week proposal requires 24 hour 7 days a week data and if there are seasonal fluctuations additional data is also needed." No. Peak data is what is needed. "To say that a 24 hour 7 day a week proposal only requires data for one peak hour a day IS TOTALLY FALSE. That much is plainly obvious." Plainly obviously false. Do you still not understand what peak means? "What you say about not having to analyze parallel routes but "just looking at it" makes no sense." You don't HAVE to analyze anything. You just keep on repeating that the MTA/DOT doesn't analyze specific things that you claim they should. You don't have to do any deep analysis to see that when SBS route ridership has gone down, the parallel routes ridership has gone down similar amounts, sometimes substantially moreso. "So you are now saying that SBS increased the average trip length now?That may make sense if ridership went up. BUT IT WENT DOWN. So you must np e saying that SBS discouraged short distance trips. If so, where did they go? Certainly not to parallel routes. So they must have gone to car services. That certainly doesn't signify success." No. I am saying none of those things. I am saying that the B44 SBS project almost certainly has resulted in longer distance riders taking the SBS buses over the local buses. "And talking about bus travel time savings you are only considering the times on the buses. You are ignoring extra walking distances and the greater possibility of missing a bus and waiting for the next one." Walking distances are not significantly greater. Possibility of missing a bus is not greater either. "SO YOUR TEN PERCENT REDUCTION is skewed and doesn't tell the entire story such as those with longer trips by passengers previously using the Limited and now switching to the local since the introduction of SBS." No. No reason to assume passengers will switch to the local. "Anyone traveling to Kings County and Downstate Medical Center, two heavy traffic generators were just some of the populations who were hurt." No, they weren't hurt. Just because you are lazy does not mean that some would not prefer a faster ride that lets one off two blocks away. "They obviously did no calculations when they eliminated Avenue L and residents had to fight for a year to get it back." A. It is not obvious that they did not do calculations. B. They didn't have to fight for a year to get it back. "And when the closest SBS stop is a half mile away, SBS is not accessible." Not true. I have certainly walked a half mile to bus stops on many occasions. "The counts certainly do exist. They are right here:" Those aren't real counts. For counts to be believable they must have been taken by someone who has not demonstrated the inability to count to 4. Hell, even in the comments, people are showing how your counts are absolute bullshit. |
|
|
| (311580) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:30:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:52:51 2016. "So you are saying that every road, paved or not is a HIGHWAY."I'm not saying that. NYSDOT is. "If that is the case, why just not use the word "road"?" Why not? "Are you saying roads and highways are synonymous?" In many uses, yes. |
|
|
| (311581) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by fdtutf on Tue Mar 15 14:32:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 13:58:09 2016. Legally, yes. The language there is pretty plain.Note also that such a publicly maintained way does not have to be paved in order to qualify as a "highway." |
|
|
| (311582) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:33:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:10:05 2016. "24 hour totals are absolutely useless for anything at all. looking at full day data is really only useful for identifying the peak."That statement shows your total incompetence. One lane out if four is being removed from general traffic 24/7. In order to determine if that is justified, one must first compute how many rely on those general traffic lanes on a 24/7 basis when the lanes will be ineffect. One must also figure out how many daily bus passengers there are to determine how many could possibly benefit. SO YOU NEED 24 HOUR COUNTS TO DETERMINE THE FORMER, not only to calculate the peak hour. We still do not have 24 hour counts for vehicles other than buses using the road. All we have are limited counts at selected intersections. Those counts tend to indicate that only 20 perecent of vehicle users are riding the bus when 25 percent of the road will be taken away for exclusive bus use. Bus riders account for one third of the users during the peak hour and far fewer during the period 24 hour period when the proposal would be in effect. |
|
|
| (311583) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 14:36:54 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:30:33 2016. Actually, it's not even the NYSDOT, it's the state legislature. |
|
|
| (311584) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:37:21 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:07:22 2016. "Your quotes are all screwed up. You stated the first line. Not me."Missing an opening quote. I left in my statement for context. "So you are accusing yourself of not making a true statement." No. You typed what you are calling an accusation. "Where do you see traffic on Cross Bay being half of Woodhaven?" NYSDOT. "And where did they choose Option 2 for Cross Bay to eliminate left turn bays?" The Woodhaven plan they published. "If you are going to make statements, you need to back them up. No option has yet been chosen." Possible they didn't settle entirely on it. "Counting both bridges which accounts for a good percentage of the route is thoroughly misleading." How? It is purely accurate. "It makes perfect sense to consider Woodhaven Boukevard as a separate entity when speaking about Kane's being eliminated which is what I have done." What the hell is Kane's? "Thanks for finally admitting that DOT tells people what they want to hear even if it is not true proving they cannot be trusted." You gotta do something when raving lunatics have you surrounded. |
|
|
| (311585) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:38:06 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:08:32 2016. No it is not. |
|
|
| (311586) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:41:14 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:24:22 2016. IT ENHANCES RELIABILITY BY AVOIDING MOST POTENTIAL TRAFFIC INTERFERENCE.EXACTLY WHAT I SAID THE TIME YOU QUOTED ME. |
|
|
| (311587) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:54:25 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:33:19 2016. "That statement shows your total incompetence."LOL. "One lane out if four is being removed from general traffic 24/7." Yes, in some places at least In order to determine if that is justified, one must first compute how many rely on those general traffic lanes on a 24/7 basis when the lanes will be ineffect." No. you use peak hour counts to determine impact on capacity. "One must also figure out how many daily bus passengers there are to determine how many could possibly benefit." No, again, as the peak hour riders will disproportionally be the ones who benefit, full day counts are fairly useless. "SO YOU NEED 24 HOUR COUNTS TO DETERMINE THE FORMER, not only to calculate the peak hour." Yeah, but the former is an absolutely useless statistic. "We still do not have 24 hour counts for vehicles other than buses using the road." Yes. But as they are both useless and functionally unobtainable we never will. "All we have are limited counts at selected intersections." Yes. Those counts tend to indicate that only 20 perecent of vehicle users are riding the bus when 25 percent of the road will be taken away for exclusive bus use. "Bus riders account for one third of the users during the peak hour" Yes. "and far fewer during the period 24 hour period when the proposal would be in effect." We don't have those counts, but they don't matter anyway. |
|
|
| (311588) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:56:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 14:33:19 2016. AACK. One slipped through again"Those counts tend to indicate that only 20 perecent of vehicle users are riding the bus when 25 percent of the road will be taken away for exclusive bus use. " NO. They do not. They say that ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. But that said, even if they did, that is not necessarily an indication that a bus lane would be unjustifiable. 80-20 is not that far from 75-25. |
|
|
| (311589) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:02:51 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:29:12 2016. The B46 is the closest parallel route to the B44 when you consider the north and southern terminals, yet 2014 data shows paid ridership on the B44 declined by twice the amount of decline for the B46. So your assertion that parallel route declines are similar to SBS declines IS NOT EVEN CORRECT. Even if it were true, it is certainly not a point to brag about because SBS ridership should be going up not declining if the routes are successful.I certainly understand what the peak hour means and understand it is of limited use when evaluating a proposal being in effect for 24 hours not only for one hour. "I am saying that ...SBS...resulted in longer distance riders taking the SBS over local buses." Yes that makes sense if their origin and destination is near an SBS stop. It would not be true for riders getting on or off at Avenue R for example or those with a destination on New York Avenue. But long distance passengers are not the only ones who matter. New York Avenue service was cut in half and those users have to also be considered. Walking distances are certainly greater for Avenue R users as well as Avenue L users before that SBS stop was added. Those switching from the B54 to the B52 changing to the B44 also have longer walking distances as many others. And you are Eden denying that getting a receipt before you board increases the likelihood of missing a bus possibly wiping out all your possible SBS time savings. Not everyone is able bodied enough to be able to walk a half mile especially during inclement weather when it is especially inconvenient. I wouldn't expect you to believe any counts I take because your mind is made up and you have no intention of changing. AND YES THEY ARE REAL COUNTS even if you don't believe them. |
|
|
| (311590) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:14:40 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:37:21 2016. It should have been "lanes" not "Kanes"So anyone that does not agree with DOT's nonsense is a "raving lunatic". And besides she was talking to me in private so she had no reason to lie unless that is all she does. Since there are no cross streets or traffic signals on the bridges which differ greatly from the rest of the streets being discussed, it makes perfect sense to treat them separately. Treating every part of the bus route as being equal would be totally misleading. If you are going to insist that traffic volumes on Cross Bay are half of what they are on Woodhaven, you need to provide a source. Merely saying "NYSDOT" is insufficient. And you have to look at traffic densities not only volumes. The six lanes of the main roadway on Woodhaven carry similar amounts of traffic to the six lanes of Cross Bay in Howard Beach which is what matters not the bridges, since bus lanes are not proposed there. They did not pick an option for Cross Bay and for you to say they did is wrong. |
|
|
| (311591) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:15:08 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:38:06 2016. Wrong! |
|
|
| (311592) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:18:04 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:41:14 2016. But if buses are not currently delayed by traffic during the off-peak, and they are not, reliability will not be improved by eliminating other traffic. Other SBS bus routes with exclusive lanes have not seen increases in rely ability. The B44 for example bunches just as much as ever as my traffic counts show. |
|
|
| (311593) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:21:57 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:54:25 2016. So according to you what happens in one hour out of 24 hours is all that matters and we can safely ignore and not collect any data for 23 out of 24 hours because such data would be meaningless or nearly meaningless.I have never heard such stupidity in my entire life. I take that back. It is just as stupid as saying all left turns should be banned everywhere which was another statement you made and will probably deny. |
|
|
| (311594) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:26:10 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:02:51 2016. "The B46 is the closest parallel route to the B44 when you consider the north and southern terminals, yet 2014 data shows paid ridership on the B44 declined by twice the amount of decline for the B46."There are other routes than just the B46 you know. "So your assertion that parallel route declines are similar to SBS declines IS NOT EVEN CORRECT." No. It is correct in general. "Even if it were true, it is certainly not a point to brag about Because SBS ridership should be going up not declining if the routes are successful." Who is bragging about it? The other routes went up, so its all good! "I certainly understand what the peak hour means and understand it is of limited use when evaluating a proposal being in effect for 24 hours not only for one hour." Ok, fine, you understand what a peak hour is. I guess the issue is you don't understand what it represents. "Yes that makes sense if their origin and destination is near an SBS stop. It would not be true for riders getting on or off at Avenue R for example or those with a destination on New York Avenue." Avenue R stop riders can get on somewhere else. Those on New York Avenue can walk from Rogers. "But long distance passengers are not the only ones who matter." Nobody said they were. "New York Avenue service was cut in half and those users have to also be considered." And most of them can walk to Rogers. Or take the local. Who says they aren't being considered? "Walking distances are certainly greater for Avenue R users as well as Avenue L users before that SBS stop was added." Yeah, they'll have to walk a little longer. Probably 1/4-1/3rd mi on average. Or they can take the local. Not that big of a deal. "Those switching from the B54 to the B52 changing to the B44 also have longer walking distances as many others." The B52 has a great connection to the B44 SBS. The B54 is not a long walk. "And you are Eden denying that getting a receipt before you board increases the likelihood of missing a bus possibly wiping out all your possible SBS time savings." They usually wait for you. Nobody in their right mind is against off board fare collection. "Not everyone is able bodied enough to be able to walk a half mile especially during inclement weather when it is especially inconvenient." Not everybody is. They still have the local. "I wouldn't expect you to believe any counts I take because your mind is made up and you have no intention of changing. AND YES THEY ARE REAL COUNTS even if you don't believe them." lol. No they aren't. I don't trust such counts on people who are any of the following: A. Demonstrably unable to see. B. Dishonest. C. Demonstrably unable to count. You win 3/3! Just one of the three is enough to throw out your numbers. |
|
|
| (311595) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:28:55 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 14:56:19 2016. No. Using 80-20 and 75-25 would both be wrong because the proportion of bus users to other users varies during different parts of the day and not studying each time period separately as well as weekends and seasonal fluctuations would be an overly simplistic analysis. During the peak hour other vehicle users outnumber bus users by 2 to 1. That means during the peak three hours that number could be 2.5 or 3 to 1. During the midday it could be 5 to one and in late evenings it could be 7 or 8 to 1. Traffic on Woodhaven is moderate during the late evening. It is not light. Reducing a lane would make it heavy slowing down cars and gaining no benefit for bus riders.That is why one hour data is grossly insufficient in studying this proposal. |
|
|
| (311596) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:30:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:14:40 2016. "It should have been "lanes" not "Kanes""OK. "So anyone that does not agree with DOT's nonsense is a "raving lunatic"." No. "And besides she was talking to me in private so she had no reason to lie unless that is all she does." Being in private behind closed doors makes lying to lunatics more necessary for ones safety. "Since there are no cross streets or traffic signals on the bridges which differ greatly from the rest of the streets being discussed, it makes perfect sense to treat them separately. Treating every part of the bus route as being equal would be totally misleading." Not misleading at all. "If you are going to insist that traffic volumes on Cross Bay are half of what they are on Woodhaven, you need to provide a source. Merely saying "NYSDOT" is insufficient." NYSDOT is not insufficient. Look it up. You have the tools to do so. "And you have to look at traffic densities not only volumes. The six lanes of the main roadway on Woodhaven carry similar amounts of traffic to the six lanes of Cross Bay in Howard Beach which is what matters not the bridges, since bus lanes are not proposed there." No, whatever metric you use, Cross Bay is half the vehicles of much of woodhaven. "They did not pick an option for Cross Bay and for you to say they did is wrong." They picked one to publicly display on their proposed layout. |
|
|
| (311597) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:31:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:18:04 2016. "But if buses are not currently delayed by traffic during the off-peak, and they are not, reliability will not be improved by eliminating other traffic."Faulty assumption. They surely are on occasion. "Other SBS bus routes with exclusive lanes have not seen increases in rely ability. The B44 for example bunches just as much as ever as my traffic counts show." Just plain false. And for that matter, you don't have traffic counts, so it is made up too. |
|
|
| (311598) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:32:12 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:15:08 2016. Just because you keep repeating something does not make it any less false. |
|
|
| (311599) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:34:39 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:21:57 2016. "So according to you what happens in one hour out of 24 hours is all that matters and we can safely ignore and not collect any data for 23 out of 24 hours because such data would be meaningless or nearly meaningless."I did not say that. you'd want to look at certain other times of the day to make sure you don't have different peaks in specific areas. "I have never heard such stupidity in my entire life." I guess one doesn't technically hear the voices in their head. "I take that back. It is just as stupid as saying all left turns should be banned everywhere which was another statement you made and will probably deny." Correct! I never made that statement. Yes, it is a safe assumption that I will deny that I made statements I never made. Kudos to you. |
|
|
| (311600) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:34:49 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 22:00:18 2016. Wow. Before 1978 the only way to get from Brighton Beach to Bay Ridge was by taking many indirect bus routes. The B21 or B68 to the B1, transfer to the B34 and transfer again to the B64 or else take the subway first to Downtown Brooklyn. Now the trip can be made directly with the B1 bus. I would call that an improvement.To get from Borough Park to Midwood you used to have to take the B11 which ended at 18th Avenue, to the B8 to the B68 to the B6. Now that trip can be done entirely with the B11 which has seen its service levels steadily increase over the years. I would call that an improvement. What have you improved, Lincoln McMahon? |
|
|
| (311601) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:42:16 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:34:49 2016. LOL. Nobody had to take the subway to downtown brooklyn.You think those are ground shattering developments? LOL |
|
|
| (311602) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:50:30 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Mar 14 21:35:42 2016. Well I certainly know you are neither a transportation planner or an engineer.It is not my job to show how this plan hurts more than it helps or helps more than it hurts. THAT IS THE JOB OF THE MTA and DOT. And they have woefully failed in showing how this plan helps more than it hurts. They clam to be using traffic forecasting models but have refused to tell us what those models show. That is because either the models are not statistically valid or they actually show more are hurt than helped. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON FOR KEEPING THE RESULTS SECRET. The meaning of that paragraph is as follows. I was stating that capacity isn't the only consideration. If it were, we could ban all turns and greatly improve capacity but that wouldn't serve anyone well because people do need to turn. And going from 12 lanes to 8 is slightly less tha a 33 % reduction in capacity when you consider turning movements and also consider increases in green time for through traffic. But you also must consider increased travel times and distances for those having to bake their turns elsewhere. That is why I stated capacity is not the only consideration. |
|
|
| (311603) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:55:47 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 15:50:30 2016. "Well I certainly know you are neither a transportation planner or an engineer."No you don't "It is not my job to show how this plan hurts more than it helps or helps more than it hurts." It is if you are making the absurd claim that it hurts more than it helps. "THAT IS THE JOB OF THE MTA and DOT." No. Their job is to provide the best service they can, not simply say how to. "And they have woefully failed in showing how this plan helps more than it hurts." You keep saying that. Does not make it true. "They clam to be using traffic forecasting models but have refused to tell us what those models show." No, they have told us what they show. Reduced traffic. "That is because either the models are not statistically valid or they actually show more are hurt than helped. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON FOR KEEPING THE RESULTS SECRET." Only in your head. "The meaning of that paragraph is as follows. I was stating that capacity isn't the only consideration. If it were, we could ban all turns and greatly improve capacity but that wouldn't serve anyone well because people do need to turn." Nobody is saying capacity is the only consideration. "And going from 12 lanes to 8 is slightly less tha a 33 % reduction in capacity when you consider turning movements and also consider increases in green time for through traffic." Yes, if they were going from 12 to 8, but they aren't. "But you also must consider increased travel times and distances for those having to bake their turns elsewhere." Yes, but those distances aren't very long. "That is why I stated capacity is not the only consideration." Nobody ever said it was the only consideration. |
|
|
| (311604) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:05:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:26:10 2016. There are other routes than the B46, but you won't use it because it doesn't show what you want it to show but using it is better than the B43 which does not cover the lower portion of Brooklyn or the B49 which doesn't cover the upper portion. Still rather than picking and choosing parallel routes, it makes better sense to compare SBS routes with the borough wide average which I previously did. But you chose selected parallel route for your analysis in order to get the numbers you wanted. That is not how you should plan.The only SBS bus routes where ridership went up were in the Bronx. That is not one out of five boroughs. Peak hour represents what is happening in the peak hour and nothing else. It means traffic is lighter in other hours, not that the percentage of bus riders to other users remains the same during other hours. And where can Avenue R riders board the SBS? Either at Kings Highway or Avenue U. Both stops are about 9 minutes away walking briskly. Twelve or 15 minutes for those with walking difficulties. That is greater than their time savings with SBS unless they are traveling all the way to Williamsburg Plaza in which case they may still save a minute or 2 but would probably still choose the local so as not to have to walk that much. And walking from Rogers to New York Avenue takes six minutes, also about equal to their SBS time savings so these people probably would still choose the local. Bus operators are instructed not to wait fir passengers getting receipts. If he waits he is violating procedure and get in trouble. Yes people who are not able bodied and cannot walk long distances do still have the local. Many also previously ripoff the faster Limited and now have slower trips. I am certainly able to count having done it many times professionally. You are the only me being dishonest here by cherry picking your data to prove your preconceived thoughts even if it defies all logic. |
|
|
| (311606) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:28:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:30:24 2016. Quit making things up and assuming. I was not with her behind closed doors. Who else were you callng raving lunatics if not the Woodhaven residents who oppose SBS? If you think bridges with no cross streets should be treated the same as one with cross streets from a transportation planning perspective shows you know nothing about planning or engineering. No their public display showed both options. I looked up NYSDOT+Woodhaven+cross+bay+ volumes and all I got was a 2011 NYSDOT report that didn't show any traffic volumes in NYC. Wickipedia stated that Cross Bay carries 30,000 vehicles per day but failed to give a citation so I don't know what it us referring to. If you are alleging Woodhaven is twice as heavily used, you need to come up with a citation. I am not going to waste any more of my time on it. |
|
|
| (311607) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:31:04 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:31:46 2016. Yes there can be an accident but we can't make 24/7 plans based on the chance of an occasional accident.I do have B44 traffic counts showing SBS buses bunching but I won't even bother looking for them because you already stated I can't count. |
|
|
| (311608) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:33:01 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:32:12 2016. I can say the same about you. As long as you keep repeating traffic will move faster with fewer lanes dies not make it any more true. Or that you can justify a 24/7 proposal with one hour counts. Or it would be a great idea to ban all left turns everywhere. None of that is true no matter how many times you say it. |
|
|
| (311609) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 16:34:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:05:33 2016. "There are other routes than the B46, but you won't use it because it doesn't show what you want it to show but using it is better than the B43 which does not cover the lower portion of Brooklyn or the B49 which doesn't cover the upper portion. Still rather than picking and choosing parallel routes, it makes better sense to compare SBS routes with the borough wide average which I previously did. But you chose selected parallel route for your analysis in order to get the numbers you wanted. That is not how you should plan."B41 is down a lot more. As is the B49. Perhaps ridership towards the south end of the line is down a lot more? The numbers certainly don't show that the problem is the SBS conversion. "The only SBS bus routes where ridership went up were in the" Bronx. That is not one out of five boroughs. Actually the Bronx would be one out of five boroughs. However... The only SBS routes where ridership went up were the ones in Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island. The one Brooklyn route went down. The queens route is too new to have statistics. So you are correct. Manhattan, the Bronx, and Staten Island is 3 out of the 4 boroughs which had SBS services. "Peak hour represents what is happening in the peak hour and nothing else. It means traffic is lighter in other hours, not that the percentage of bus riders to other users remains the same during other hours." Correct. But since the road is being engineered to BETTER HANDLE PEAK TRAFFIC, there is no reason to believe such will not be able to handle OFF PEAK traffic. "And where can Avenue R riders board the SBS? Either at Kings Highway or Avenue U." YES! You answered the question yourself! I'm proud of you. "Both stops are about 9 minutes away walking briskly. Twelve or 15 minutes for those with walking difficulties." Reasonable estimates. "That is greater than their time savings with SBS unless they are traveling all the way to Williamsburg Plaza in which case they may still save a minute or 2 but would probably still choose the local so as not to have to walk that much." Certainly possible. So you have demonstrated that the most harmed rider by the B44 SBS might actually be helped under some situations, and are not minimally harmed regardless. Glad to see you support B44 SBS! "And walking from Rogers to New York Avenue takes six minutes, also about equal to their SBS time savings so these people probably would still choose the local." Who says they are all walking from New York to Rogers avenue? Those who previously had to make that walk no longer have to! "Bus operators are instructed not to wait fir passengers getting receipts. If he waits he is violating procedure and get in trouble." That is obviously not what is happening. I suspect it depends on how they are doing schedulewise. "Yes people who are not able bodied and cannot walk long distances do still have the local." Yup. "Many also previously ripoff the faster Limited and now have slower trips." No idea what you could possibly mean here. "I am certainly able to count having done it many times professionally." You have clearly lost that skill. "You are the only me being dishonest here by cherry picking your data to prove your preconceived thoughts even if it defies all logic." It may be hard for you to discern which of your multiple personalities is the dishonest one, but I assure you, I am not one of your personalities. My voice is not coming from inside your head. |
|
|
| (311610) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:36:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:34:39 2016. "I did not say that. you'd want to look at certain other times of the day to make sure you don't have different peaks in specific areas."Congratulations. You know realize that the peak can be at different times on different on different parts of the roadway. Still does not change anything. Figured you would deny our conversation about banning all left turns after you had tine to realize what a dumb statement it was. I have better things to do than sort through hundreds of links in order to find it. |
|
|
| (311611) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 16:36:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:28:59 2016. "Quit making things up and assuming. I was not with her behind closed doors."LOL. You were the one who said that, so it wasn't an assumption on my part. "Who else were you callng raving lunatics if not the Woodhaven residents who oppose SBS?" You specifically. Although some of your QPTC friends seem to fit the bill as well. "If you think bridges with no cross streets should be treated the same as one with cross streets from a transportation planning perspective shows you know nothing about planning or engineering." Nobody is saying they should be. "No their public display showed both options." Not the one I saw. "I looked up NYSDOT+Woodhaven+cross+bay+ volumes and all I got was a 2011 NYSDOT report that didn't show any traffic volumes in NYC. Wickipedia stated that Cross Bay carries 30,000 vehicles per day but failed to give a citation so I don't know what it us referring to. If you are alleging Woodhaven is twice as heavily used, you need to come up with a citation. I am not going to waste any more of my time on it. " Try searching using more general terms. |
|
|
| (311612) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 16:38:35 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:31:04 2016. "Yes there can be an accident but we can't make 24/7 plans based on the chance of an occasional accident."There can be congestion outside of accidents you know. Hint: If you pretend that traffic is so bad that a lane cannot be removed from service, it is hard to pretend that traffic is so light it will not delay buses. "I do have B44 traffic counts showing SBS buses bunching but I won't even bother looking for them because you already stated I can't count." Good! You are learning! |
|
|
| (311613) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:39:29 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 15:42:16 2016. If no one had to take the subway to downtown Brooklyn, please tell me which bus routes you would have taken in 1977 if you were alive back then which you weren't, to get from Ocean Parkway and Brighton Beach Avenue to Fourth Avenue and 86th Street? Hint. I already gave you the answer.And they were certainly ground shattering developments, about ten bus routes changed the same day for the better. |
|
|
| (311614) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 16:41:35 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:33:01 2016. You're right. You can say the same thing about me.Except I didn't say the first or third thing. Every time you say that I said them does not make the fact that I didn't say them any less true. The second however is true. And however many times I say it does not change the fact that it is true. It would be just as true if I never said it at all. (Of course, that assumes that the one hour counts are in fact the peak hour.) |
|
|
| (311615) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 15 16:43:48 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 15 16:36:33 2016. "Congratulations. You know realize that the peak can be at different times on different on different parts of the roadway. Still does not change anything. "I never said it wasn't potentially different on different parts of the road. I have no reason to assume it is though. "Figured you would deny our conversation about banning all left turns after you had tine to realize what a dumb statement it was." I never said banning all left turns was a good idea. "I have better things to do than sort through hundreds of links in order to find it." Translation: "I looked, realized you didn't say such, now I am trying to save face." |
|
|
|
Page 18 of 22 |
||