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“It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007 That's what one guy said as he walked out of the waiting room of the Elizabeth station. It wasn't just him. I smelled it too.Anyway, here's Friday's Trip & Pics I picked up breakfast at McDonald's and sevened it on the 8 trai-- I mean, ate it on the 7 train. Looking at my watch, I knew the upcoming connection would be cutting it close. Taking a suggestion from South Ferry, I went to Penn Station to ride the bilevels on the 10:28 out of Penn. I got to Penn via the 7th Avenue IRT, and arrived at 10:26. As it was on Tuesday, the train was on Track 13. I boarded via the LIRR track 13 entrance nearest the 7th Avenue Subway and boarded the nearest car, since it was departure time. I started moving forward from one car to the next, going all the way to the car behind the locomotive. The train seemed to stretch forever! Strange thing was that the first few cars were completely empty, with no physical barrier to keep me from going into the next car forward, even in the empty cars. When the train arrived at Newark Penn, the car I was in stopped well past the fence about ¾-way down the platform. It was at that point I realized that if this car wasn't platforming (though it technically was, but the doors didn't open, and the aforementioned fence would prevent anyone on the platform from going that far forward anyway), it certainly wouldn't platform in Elizabeth, so I started moving back. I moved back to the first car I could find that had other passengers aboard and took a seat. As the train left, I heard the conductor talking to some of the other people in the car, telling them to move back. He then says, “You can’t just raise the bar and go anywhere you want!” At that point, I should have said, “Bar? What bar? I didn’t see any bar,” but I didn't. (Though it was true that I saw no bar when moving past where it was when I walked back.) I moved back and got off at Elizabeth. After a brief shoot there, I took the train to Newark, and walked over to Broad Street station. After a few pics there, I walked over to the Washington Park station, where I caught a car to NWK Penn Station. The car was playing the “You must have a valid ticket to ride this train…” announcement ad nauseum. I got my I.D. out, just in case. When we got to NWK Penn, the popo were a no show. I then took the PATH, the whole PATH, and nothing but the PATH. NWK to WTC, WTC to HOB, HOB to 33rd. It took 65 minutes to do the whole thing. I then ate at the Manhattan Mall and went home. This is where the train stopped in Elizabeth.  What was this abandoned rail line?  Yet another bilevel train  Acelaaaaaaaah…   Newark    |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 21 17:32:46 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. What was this abandoned rail line?The Central Railroad of New Jersey's main line. The original Raritan Valley Line, which ran out of Jersey City (today's Liberty State Park) and connected to other railroads like the Reading (in Bound Brook NJ, Bethlehem and Allentown PA). Trains ran on this line to places like Scranton, Harrisburg, Philly, Chicago, St. Louis and Washington DC (even to Toronto, when the LVRR used it prior to building its own main line through NJ). But instead of keeping it active, like the former PRR and E-L main lines, NJDOT let it rot. HBLRT operates on its ROW in Bayonne into JC. This is what the ROW looked like towards its end.  |
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Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Fri Sep 21 22:31:17 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 21 17:32:46 2007. The Aldene Plan of 1967. It did end the CNJ in Jersey City and Bayonne by rerouting trains into Newark but it set in motion the PATH we've today and ultimately led to the HBLR. The West Side Avenue line utilizes part of the former direct line to Newark and the old Jersey Central Terminal still stands in Liberty State Park. Communipaw Junction was in this area. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Fri Sep 21 22:49:52 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. Nice pics! Is that one toward the end a pic of the Newark City Subway or of the Newar Light Rail? |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 01:52:01 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. Excellent report!! Was the 10:28 the bilevels for ya??? (its the interval I caught them at... so I bet it was).. Under Elizabeth, it's the Central NJ Railroad which occupied the clocktower building you see towards the side of the Trenton platform.. There used to be a 4-track ROW (and that's as much as I know about that spot).. I'm certain that used to be Central NJ Rail... teh clocktower is AW3SOM3!! |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 01:53:20 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 21 17:32:46 2007. Thanks for that info. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 01:56:47 2007, in response to Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by E Line Fan on Fri Sep 21 22:31:17 2007. I know all that.How exactly did it "set in motion the PATH we've today" when that's existed exactly as McAdoo built it aside from the WTC station? The Aldene Plan was a PRR idea. It's done nothing good for passenger rail in NJ. Nothing. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 01:57:34 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 01:53:20 2007. No problemo. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 02:01:03 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 01:52:01 2007. Didn't mean to harp on your choice of intervals, but with all the hoopla the bilevels have been making with their inception into more frequent service I sure thought it was worth the McChicken to atleast try and WAIT for one if you're practically there inside of a half-hour of its departure... I suggested it only with the hopes of helping another brah find a set and ride a consist some of us still have yet to capcha. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by JBar387 on Sat Sep 22 04:39:47 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 21 17:32:46 2007. Thanks for that Info, I'm kinda suprised that they don't think of light rail for the row. I don't know if there is a need for it. But it would make a nice idea. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by JBar387 on Sat Sep 22 04:42:19 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. Nice Pics and Report! |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Sep 22 07:22:41 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 21 17:32:46 2007. Got a date on that vintage pic ? It seems sometime after Aldene but before cessation of service on that line.Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by PATHman on Sat Sep 22 18:51:25 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. The second to last pic pwns. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 20:43:20 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. Just to wake the thread up again: Here are a couple of postcard views of the old PRR westbound station in Elizabeth. Pity this is gone, a true pity . . . these are classy views.   |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by hhp664 on Sat Sep 22 20:59:10 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 01:56:47 2007. It worked well until people rediscovered the rails. i remember when 2 and 3 cars arrow 1 sets would run the lenth of the corridor after aldene. Now we have 10 and 12 cars sets and the bi level cars. However this is what? 40 years later. The only thing it did was close the CNJ down earlier. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 21:21:09 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by hhp664 on Sat Sep 22 20:59:10 2007. No, it never worked well. People were "rediscovering the rails" during the 70s oil crisis. NJ's going nuts trying to funnel all main lines into the PRR High Line, which is a disaster in and of itself.The only reason that the main line closed down was due to NJDOT favoritism. Note that the E-L system stayed intact while the CNJ had to be diverted onto the LV and PRR. Further damaging the CNJ was having service cut back into New Jersey (funny how the PRR got away with operating outside PA with its name, but the CNJ couldn't operate in PA with the name CNJ). |
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The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...") |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:15:04 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by hhp664 on Sat Sep 22 20:59:10 2007. "i remember when 2 and 3 cars arrow 1 sets would run the lenth of the corridor after aldene."That is way before my time, but I just cannot believe that the NEC was ever like that judging by just how heavily used it is today - sometimes it seems more like a heavy rail rapid transit line than a commuter rail line. Speaking of which, what were the original Arrow I's like? Did they have funky seat colors like the A-3's used to have (orange/black and blue/green? God I miss those seats! The all-brown is just... blah!) |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 23 00:25:17 2007, in response to The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks..."), posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:15:04 2007. The Arrow Is are still rostered...they are now Comet IBs. Here is a pic of a Comet 1B (ex-Arrow I) that is now a trailer. Hope this helps. |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:30:25 2007, in response to Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...''), posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 23 00:25:17 2007. lol, I know all about that! Rode them plenty of times too. I was asking about them in their ORIGINAL EMU configuration... ;-) |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 23 00:36:58 2007, in response to The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks..."), posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:15:04 2007. I remember them when they were electrics, and I thought they were really neat! Nicely air conditioned, at the time I did not appreciate the old MP54's. Dumb kid was I! Forgot the seat colors, but the car body walls were a nice shade of blue. Good acceleration. One of my expensive yet favorite early ralifanning experiences was taking the Sunday afternoon 3:34 train to Trenton. A guaranteed 4 car set of Arrow I's, not always crowded. Hard to believe how ridership has gone up today. And you had no near the frequency of service then either. We are a much more mobile society today then we were then. |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 23 00:42:33 2007, in response to Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...''), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Sep 23 00:36:58 2007. There were only about 30 of them. One was wrecked early. It was sitting in Sunnyside Yard for years, smashed in at one end, looked like it had an encounter with a GG1 and lost! They were using it as a parts source obviously. It was visible from the 43rd St. overpass. Used to ride my bike over there from Greenpoint at least once a week. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Bill West on Sun Sep 23 01:58:03 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 21:21:09 2007. Don’t know if you’re on top of this one too or not but CNJ’s dual names were an unsuccessful attempt to get out from under some incredibly abusive taxes. Both states wanted full corporate income tax on the earnings obtained in the other state. Sort of like if you lived in NJ, worked in PA and each state took 30% of your paycheque. NJ was also the state that assessed RR property at 200% of market value for calculating property tax while industrial and residential property was only the fair value.Another possible factor in the Aldene plan was that a cruise ship fire in the Caribbean had capped a severe Coast Guard clamp down on wooden ships, so CNJ’s ferries had to go and there was no way the railroad could afford to replace them. NYC had craftily used the ICC to get out of the West Shore service while PRR and E-L had long ago turned to tunnel service on their routes. Only the CNJ needed a solution and PRR’s track was the closest answer. Bill |
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Re: "It always stinks in (is pretty in) Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Sun Sep 23 02:23:20 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 20:43:20 2007. Very nice pics and I agree. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 02:42:20 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Bill West on Sun Sep 23 01:58:03 2007. All about right, except that the E-L didn't have a tunnel to Manhattan and instead relied wholly on PATH and bus from Hoboken. People have also postulated that the PATH connection was what saved Hoboken; but Erie Terminal and Exchange Place also had the PATH connection and did not survive.Funny how CNJ had to worry about the taxes but PRR didn't though, right? |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Bill West on Sun Sep 23 04:32:50 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 02:42:20 2007. It was PATH’s tunnel I thinking of for E-L. The tax jurisdiction is I detail I have wondered about too, could it be to do with incorporation/head office? or maybe the Pennsy was just sufficiently far back from insolvency to be able to put up with the abuse.Bill |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 04:45:14 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by JBar387 on Sat Sep 22 04:39:47 2007. I'm kinda suprised that they don't think of light rail for the rowYou wound me, sir. Light rail has been thought about for that ROW since the early 90s. Remember the Newark-Elizabeth Rail Link, the "other Newark Airtrain"? The NCS extension to the former DL&W Broad Street Station was to have been the first segment of same. "Newark Light Rail" was supposed to have been named Newark-Elizabeth Light Rail. The plans went through a multitude of proposals, including user wish lists for extensions to Plainfield (via the CNJ four-tracks-and-greater ROW) and Summit (using the Rahway Vallely RR main line through Kenilworth, Union and Springfield). Jeff Warsh, Warrington's predecessor, even went so far as to mention a tunnel under Newark Bay to connect the HBLRT with the NELR. I myself didn't like merely using Elizabeth as the terminus, which would have been quite a waste. (Of course, the tunnel idea got my hopes up for seeing commuter rail on the line again, possibly running to Hoboken via the current freight-only tracks and the National Docks branch.) Warrington stabbed that project, though, declaring it "complete" when the segment to "NBS" was finished. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 04:47:07 2007, in response to Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by E Line Fan on Fri Sep 21 22:49:52 2007. Is there a difference between the two? The timetable for both says "Newark Light Rail", as do the vehicles.Should be self-evident that it's the segment to Broad Street Station. Not even the extension of the NCS onto the former Erie Orange Branch features street-running, although it does have a number of grade crossings. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by JBar387 on Sun Sep 23 08:50:49 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 04:45:14 2007. Sorry if I wounded ya, I could never find much information on this line. I must of passed Elizabeth hundreds of times either traveling to Philly or to Monmouth Park and always wondered about those tracks. But every time I would do a serch it would never turn up much, If anything. |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by Franklin-Nassau on Sun Sep 23 11:28:27 2007, in response to The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks..."), posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:15:04 2007. The arrow-1's were certainly nicer than the MP-54's they were replacing but they had one disadvantage! When they broke down (which was frequently) the crews had a hell of a job getting them going again. I remember one morning commute (must have been 1969 or so) when the engineman had to operate from the second pair with the conductor up front calling signals. 15mph from Metuchen to Newark with the whole railroad behind us cursing.At least they were air conditioned. However the 2-3 seating was not appreciated. F-N |
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Re: The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks...'') |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 24 22:38:18 2007, in response to The NEC way back when (was Re: ''It always stinks..."), posted by JohnnyMints on Sun Sep 23 00:15:04 2007. Count the MP54s. Nice shot by Joe Korman. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by JBar387 on Wed Sep 26 01:07:04 2007, in response to “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Sep 21 17:17:42 2007. Now that I know what to look for, I turned up some good history!    1995 Here is theSite Link for these four  Including a wreck that happened on November.4,1972 From what I read the line close forever in 1976 Wreck Link |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 05:11:15 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by JBar387 on Wed Sep 26 01:07:04 2007. From what I read the line close forever in 1976Not exactly. Conrail used the line as a secondary until the late 80s; and NJT used to use it to shuttle Comet IIs to/from the Elizabethport shops. (Of course, the yards down at Elizabethport are still very much active, as is the new intermodal yard just south of Jersey Gardens Mall.) The CNJ as a railroad was gone forever by 1976, though; that's when These here linked photos are from the early 80s (not sure, but it might be 81).   |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 26 05:41:11 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 05:11:15 2007. No sign of maintenance there. :(I'm pretty sure it was CNJ that I used to take to get down to Fort Monmouth ... Red Bank, Asbury Park, that area ... no? Can't remember the railroad other than it was decrepit and slow but DID get you there according to the schedule ... I remember a change at Newark so just took PATH there whenever I had to get there, and there was a walk involved. Kinda hazy on the rest though. But I *do* remember "Manasquan, Red Bank, Deal, Asbury and Bradley Beach" (which is where I got off to be met by a jeep) and I'm pretty sure the locos had that "Lady Liberty" thing under all the schmutz and OLD, OLD pullmans with windows that didn't work. CNJ was it? Used to pass the Hammarlund plant (and did a LOT of Army radio work with them) and I'm pretty sure that too was Red Bank but after all these years, still hazy on it all. INTERESTING ride though - the railroad *I* rode was in pretty miserable shape in the early 70's. :( |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 06:19:59 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 26 05:41:11 2007. I'm pretty sure it was CNJ that I used to take to get down to Fort Monmouth ... Red Bank, Asbury Park, that area ... no?That's the New York & Long Branch. Shared by CNJ and PRR back in the day. CNJ's segment ran through Elizabethport, Bayway, Carteret, Sewaren before Perth Amboy. After 1967, the CNJ ran out of Newark Penn, so if you remember taking the PATH there, you're memory's right on track. If those photos of the CNJ main line from the 80s look bad, look at the pic from the '00s in the first post of this thread. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 26 06:30:00 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 06:19:59 2007. That'd be IT then ... THANKS! It was *the* train to Fort Monmouth, that's what I went down there for. And lest anyone think I'm claiming "veteran" back in "'Nam" ... nope. I was classified "1Y" for the draft then ... dunno what it meant, but that was what it was. However, being a republicam back then, did the "patriotic thang" as a civvie and was DAMNED good at what I did. I signed a "lifetime no disclosure" so that's that. But I put in a LOT of time at Monmouth after leaving the teeyay since my lottery number "came up" and I got sent down to Fort HAMILTON since the reporting location down by Wall St got "blowed up by terrorists" (and we STILL had our rights back then DESPITE a "terrorist attack on New York City at Whiteall St" and yet NONE of the bullsquirt imposed on us HERE and NOW) ... :(I worked at Monmouth for Signal Corps work, AFRS and a few other "RF things" as a "civil contractor" and gave the military a very PRACTICAL "lightning detector" and other interesting toys I cannot talk about. Was also responsible for the first "single-transistor chip integrated FM modulator" which could fit on the end of a pin. Didn't involve myself with bombs and their direction, but was pleased in my "60's sensibilities" of the time that NOTHING I did contributed to casualties. However, as a civvie ... never got any credit for what I did and what DOD patented as a result of what I did. But is all good. So forgive me when things turn political. If you wanna know where *I* am *really* at ... read up on Eisenhower ... read up on GOLDWATER. There I be's ... "government should just LEAVE people the phuck alone ... there's plenty of ENEMIES out there, go bother THEM." :) |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 26 07:21:40 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by JBar387 on Wed Sep 26 01:07:04 2007. Nice shot with the GG1 in the second pic! |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 26 07:27:58 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by South Ferry on Sat Sep 22 02:01:03 2007. Yeah. I knew about the 10:28 bilevel run. Since I saw the set on Tuesday waiting on Track 13, I had a pretty good idea of where they'd be on Friday's 10:28 departure. That, and I saw a couple of people running into the LIRR's entrance to Tracks 13 and 14, so it was a pretty good guess as to where they were then. |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 26 07:35:57 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by JBar387 on Sat Sep 22 04:39:47 2007. I'm kinda surprised that they don't think of light rail for the ROW.Oh, really? |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by kp5308 on Wed Sep 26 08:03:36 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Sep 23 02:42:20 2007. PRR did indeed "worry" about the taxes, like all the others operating in NJ. Because of the volume of freight moving toward the N Jersey/NYC area up what is now the NEC (has it really been that long?) PRR was not in the precarious position that CNJ was, so the government thought. Of course, that mindset almost sank the whole industry. All this was near the end of the fully regulated era, which ended with the Staggers Act (1980). |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 09:08:33 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by kp5308 on Wed Sep 26 08:03:36 2007. Staggers is a mixed blessing. On one hand, freight is having a great upturn; on the other hand, speeds aren't improving, nor is passenger service. Staggers also helped along the mega-merger phenomenon to the point of there being a mere five Class Is. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Sep 26 10:01:31 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 21:21:09 2007. Are you saying it would have been a better idea to keep the CNJ path to Jersey City and divert trains to Exchange Place? |
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Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by JBar387 on Wed Sep 26 10:04:30 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 05:11:15 2007. I stand corrected, You are right on that. |
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Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Wed Sep 26 12:17:23 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?” (Friday’s Trip & Pics), posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 26 07:35:57 2007. Has NJT set anything firm on The Union County Light Rail yet? The station list shows a station for Spring Street in Midtown Elizabeth. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Sep 26 12:21:28 2007, in response to Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?" (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by E Line Fan on Wed Sep 26 12:17:23 2007. This article or section contains information about a planned or expected public transportation infrastructure.It may contain information of a speculative nature and the content may change dramatically as the construction and/or completion of the infrastructure approaches, and more information becomes available. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by kp5308 on Wed Sep 26 13:13:13 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 09:08:33 2007. The Staggers Act was written in large part to deregulate the pricing structure railroads were forced to use to try & sell transportation. Back then, as a whole, the freight railroads were returning less than 2% on investment, consequently not attracting much private capital for improvements. The pricing flexibility after the bill was passed basically saved the freight railroads from becoming nationalized, which was a real possiblity back then. The idea was not to raise speeds or make improvements to passenger service, but to try & give the system a chance to save itself as a private, for-profit industry.As far as the merger movement, Staggers is somewhat resposible, in that the improving financial health of the industry attracted capital for these acquisitions. But, the ultimate decision rests w the ICC/STB. Just ask John Reed, Santa Fe chairman when the ICC shot down the SPSF merger. I really don't think the Feds actually knew what they were putting into motion when they passed that bill. It was named for a retiring Congressman, Harley Staggers, as a farewell gesture. He had nothing to do with the bill! |
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Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?"Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Wed Sep 26 13:15:12 2007, in response to Re: “It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?”Now that I know what tolook for, posted by JBar387 on Wed Sep 26 01:07:04 2007. Nice Pics! Actually in 1976, Conrail succeeded a group of banrupt railroads - among these were the C.N.J., the Erie-Lackawanna and the Penn Central. Since then, railroads have further consolidated. In the West, Southern Pacific, which nearly merged with A.T.S.F. and would've created SPSF is now Union Pacific while Santa Fe has merged with Burlington Northern creating BNSF. On the railroads Union Pacific has merged with, the U.P. name has gradually replaced the former name. The Burlington Route (C. B. & Q.) has kept part of the former name: Great Northern and Northern Pacific made Burlington Northern and the Santa Fe makes today's BNSF. CSX has consolidated in the South. Today, basically, there are four main, large freight railroads and a passenger railroad. Quite a difference from 1971 when Amtrak was started and 1976 when Conrail followed. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?''Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by kp5308 on Wed Sep 26 13:47:33 2007, in response to Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?"Now that I know what tolook for, posted by E Line Fan on Wed Sep 26 13:15:12 2007. Ya can't leave out the Canadians, 'specially Canadian National, which reaches all the way to N'Olans. Remember back in the 90's when Santa Fe & CN were talkin' merger? That put pretty much a hold on "Super-Mega-Mergers". |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?''Now that I know what tolook for |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 26 17:20:03 2007, in response to Re: "It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?"Now that I know what tolook for, posted by E Line Fan on Wed Sep 26 13:15:12 2007. "On the railroads Union Pacific has merged with, the U.P. name has gradually replaced the former name."It was said that to show the Union Pacific - Southern Pacific merger was a marriage of equals, they took the first half of one name and the second half of the other, and called the new railroad Union Pacific. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 26 17:26:40 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 22 01:56:47 2007. According to _Railroad Ferries of the Hudson_ by Raymond Baxter and Arthur Adams, the Aldene Plan "was conceived by the New Jersey State Highway Department's Deivision of Railroad Transportation"; and the CNJ's old ferries and weak financial condition made them desperate to get out of the ferry business. |
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Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Sep 26 22:39:15 2007, in response to Re: ''It always stinks in Elizabeth! What is that smell?'' (Friday's Trip & Pics), posted by Michael Wares on Wed Sep 26 17:26:40 2007. I'm not discounting the highway department of NJDOT's role, of course; but the PRR's role was a big one too. Check out this PDF . . . one of the proposals on there was to keep Exchange Place open and reroute all CNJ trains in there, so that they'd have a PATH link on the waterfront. (Exchange Place, under the New Jersey RR, was the CNJ's first waterfront terminal location, before they were able to bridge across Newark Bay into Bayonne.) |
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