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(321952)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 08:59:26 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 10 22:23:24 2017.

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Read again. 8 1/2 foot trucks are allowed only on qualified highways.

"Qualifying or access highways" are Through and Local Truck Routes, and Queens Boulevard is a Through Truck Route. "Except in a city not wholly included within one county" implies that the rest of the paragraph does not apply to New York City, where trucks are confined to designated Truck Routes and are not allowed other highways with 10 foot lanes.

(321953)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 10:06:31 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by JerBear on Tue Jan 10 16:35:13 2017.

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And that includes the time the bus is stopped at the Jamaica Ave stop and the Metropolitan Ave stop, even though those are not "between Jamaica Avenue and Metropolitan Avenue"?

As Stephen described, a data point is collected every 30 seconds or so (with some gaps), and the distance from the next downstream stop is estimated by latitude and longitude. It's hard to gauge dwell time unless it's really long. For example, on 10/22/2014, bus 199 was 32.7 feet upstream of the Jamaica Avenue stop at 8:56:48; at the stop at 9:00:28, 9:01:00, and 9:01:31; and was next recorded 121.5 feet upstream of the Myrtle Avenue stop at 9:04:41. In my analysis, I tried to find a similar upstream distance from Jamaica Avenue and and Metropolitan Avenue as start and end points, so it includes dwell time at Jamaica and Myrtle but not Metropolitan.

(321954)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:17:32 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 10 18:13:27 2017.

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I have heard that argument numerous times before. It is just not convincing. If it were everyone would not be driving faster than 25 mph.

The only reason you're not convinced by it is that it gets in the way of what you want to do (drive as fast as you want).

There is no reason to assume that if this were true, everybody would slow down. People drive at the speeds they do for any number of reasons, and circumspice, this is not at the top of their list.

(321955)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:22:24 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 10 18:11:04 2017.

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Okay, so goverment bears some responsibility for safety as do auto manufacturers. Why you are leaving airlines off the hook is beyond me.

I'm not leaving airlines off the hook, you doofus! Learn to read.

But the pedestrian and cyclists bear no resonsibility. Both can go out at night wearing all dark clothing and have no responsibilities to look out for vehicles. They can just walk down the street regardless if they are in a crosswalk or not or the color of the signal.

Essentially, yes. They are not engaged in an inherently dangerous activity, so the responsibility devolves onto those who are.

In the case if cyclists, they do not need any reflectors or lights BECAUSE IT IS THE COMPLETE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE AUTMOBILE DRIVER TO SEE THEM AND KNOW THEY ARE THERE.

You're forgetting about pedestrians. Cyclists need reflectors and lights so that pedestrians can see them. (Bells, too.)

If a pedestrian jumps out unexpectedly from between two parked cars and is struck, it is because the driver was traveling too fast even if he is with the speed limit.

You're really obsessed with this silly canard. How often do pedestrians jump out unexpectedly from between two parked cars? Hint: Not nearly as often as you think.

If that is how all pedestrians think, we would have a thousand times the number of crashes and fatalities that we have now. It's a good thing that the vast majority of pedestrians KNOW THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES and have more common sense than you have. When you get killed behaving the way you do, you won't be able to tell me the car driver was wrong. WAKE UP for your own sake.

It's unfortunate that you can't tell the difference between a moral argument and practical advice. You know nothing about how I behave.

(321956)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:22:39 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Wed Jan 11 02:15:09 2017.

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BINGO.

(321957)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:23:21 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Wed Jan 11 02:15:06 2017.

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Safety is the responsibility of the party who introduces the hazard in the first place.

EXACTLY.

(321958)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 11 10:25:09 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 10 18:08:38 2017.

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Heroin sales?


(321959)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:27:06 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 08:59:26 2017.

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So what would happen if the lanes on Queens Boulevard were reduced to nine feet wide? That would bring two sections of the law into conflict with each other (the one defining Queens Boulevard as a Through Truck Route, and the one prohibiting vehicles wider than 96 inches in lanes narrower than ten feet).


(321960)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 11 10:29:57 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 10 18:13:27 2017.

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I have heard that argument numerous times before. It is just not convincing. If it were everyone would not be driving faster than 25 mph.

Other factors also need be considered.


Straw man argument. No one is arguing that, because a pedestrian struck at 30 mph has a good chance of being killed, that no speed limits on any roads where pedestrians are present should ever be greater than 25 mph.





(321961)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 10:59:35 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 10 12:26:52 2017.

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The entire street space is no allocated to automobiles. Bikes don't need bike lanes in order to be permitted to use the streets. So your comment is just wrong.

A "perfectly usable" sidewalk does not mean it is optimal. It could be crowded or cracked. That does not mean it cannot be used.

(321962)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:05:06 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by JerBear on Tue Jan 10 08:22:15 2017.

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We are talking about two freight trains a day.

I never said there are only three lanes throughout the entire corridor. I said there are only four through lanes on Woodhaven except where the LIRR crosses in two places.

When were you there recently? The only places where there are extra lanes are the right and left turn lanes. All other places where the road widens have been striped off and a lane was also removed southbound between Union Turnpike and Myrtle so now there are only seven lanes there instead of eight.



(321963)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:12:01 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 10 14:10:46 2017.

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Not true. But that doesn't mean that all planners are experts either. And I am not talking about myself either.

(321964)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:21:22 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by JerBear on Tue Jan 10 15:03:21 2017.

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No you shoukd judge it when it is complete. But when you pick and choose your data as DOT does, you can just make a failure appear to be a success. They can get away with this because there are not enough people asking questions. And when they do, they don't get answers. The media also accepts whatever DOT states as if it were gospel.

If you know anything about models, you know if garbage goes in garbage comes out. It's not like DOT has inspired confidence in the past with virtually every project behind schedule and most over budget. The Belt Parkway project is three years behind schedule. The should be completing the landscaping now, yet there are still unfinished bridges.

Yes it is difficult to make accurate traffic volume predictions, but other predictions are obvious like through traffic being forced to use the slow service lanes because of inadequate capacity on the main road during rush hours. It just stands to reason that if four lanes are inadequate during rush hours, three lanes will be less adequate. Traffic will be shifted to neighborhood streets and other already slow roadways like the Van Wyck and BQE, making travel slower for anyone in a car or truck.

(321965)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:27:25 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Tue Jan 10 14:13:47 2017.

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Well maybe 10 mph is still too much. My cars average speed now is only about 9 mph now if I don't use any highways. If my trip partially includes the use of a highway, it goes up to 12 mph and if traffic on the highway is moving, then it's 17.

So how low do we need to make the average speed so there are no fatalities? Is it 5 mph?

(321966)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:39:25 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Tue Jan 10 12:31:12 2017.

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I never asserted that they should. I was merely talking what is being considered.

I agree that someone who uses the road for a few blocks should not be considered the same like someone who uses the road for a long distance. By the same token, someone taking the bus for just a few blocks should not be considered the same as someone traveling from Rockaway to Queens Blvd.

Yes, passenger or trip miles would be the way to go. If you are looking only at the corridor portion of the trip, I would think that a bus passenger's trip length would be similar to a car vehicles trip. But if you are looking at total trip distance, I would think the average car trip would be longer since trips are based on the time they take, rather than the distance traveled. Anything over an hour becomes inconvenient for a regular commute.

Having said all that, the numbers of people in cars still greatly outweigh the numbers in buses in this corridor like at least four to one. So one minute lost or gained by a bus passenger equals about four minutes gained or lost by someone in a car when measuring total trip time. So if this plan causes the average bus passenger to save ten minutes but the average car to lose two minutes, you haven't improved anything.

(321967)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:45:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 10 19:10:08 2017.

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And if the pedestrian gets hit at 30 miles per hour because he was crossing illegally and wasn't watching the road, why do all motorists have to suffer?

I am simply tired of the inference that every passenger fatality is the fault of the driver. There are better ways to improve safety like through better education and not waiting for pedestrian crossings to be totally obliterated before bent restriped.

It's the same like punishing all gun owners because of the actions by a few. Guns should not be in the hands of mentally unstable individuals, just like irresponsible drivers should not be on the road.

(321968)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:52:36 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:17:32 2017.

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No I don't drive as fast as I want. I drive as fast as I feel is safe.

Often I drive well below the speed limit when I believe it is dangerous to go faster like at night in a rain when pedestrians and cyclists are extremely difficult to see especially when they appear when you don't expect them like the cyclist a few weeks ago who was between the center double yellow line without lights or reflectors and wearing dark clothing.

Sometimes I feel they are on a suicide mission. Of course if I had hit him, you would have said that I was wrong and had no business operating a motor vehicle because cyclists and pedestrians are always correct and the motorist is always wrong.

(321969)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:58:50 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Wed Jan 11 10:29:57 2017.

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Yes and that is exactly what DeBlasio promised that the DEFAULT speed limit would be reduced to 25 mph, and that any road warranting a higher speed limit would have it retained. But slowly within the following three years the speed limit on virtually every single roadway was reduced to 25 mph except for a few parkway and highway service roads and roads in what amounts to suburban areas.

In Brooklyn for example every north south roadway is now 25 mph and there is not a single highway alternative. It isn't so bad in Queens because in many cases you can use a highway for long distances. In Brooklyn, you have to travel as much as ten miles at a limit of 25 mph or average speed of below 10 mph.

(321970)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:09:34 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Wed Jan 4 23:43:07 2017.

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In almost all cases they do. But avoiding a collision is not always possible and that is when there is an accident and someone gets hurt or killed. That's what you hear about.

Yesterday there were three pedestrian fatalities in Brooklyn. Each one was on the news. Not a single word about all the millions of pedestrians that crossed safely that day because that was not news.

That's not to say those fatalities were okay. But it is unfair to automatically fault the motorist in every instance when most all of them do take adequate precautions except for the few maniacs out there who have no regard for human life.

(321971)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:13:16 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 10 19:06:24 2017.

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Well how wide is a tractor trailer? I took a picture from my car on Cross Bay Blvd showing a tractor trailer taking up virtually the entire ten foot lane with perhaps nine inches on each side.

I took that picture because DOT proposed to make the lanes even narrower, but dropped that idea when they realized the foolishness of it. From what I know, that vehicle was operating legally on that street.

(321972)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:20:09 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 10 22:23:24 2017.

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Sounds to me as if such roads were narrowed to nine foot width lanes, 102 inch wide trucks plus safety devices would no longer be allowed.

Funny that DOT never mentioned that when they proposed to narrow the width of lanes on Cross Bay Blvd to squeeze in a bus lane.

(321973)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jan 11 12:33:55 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:45:55 2017.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr
And if the pedestrian gets hit at 30 miles per hour because he was crossing illegally and wasn't watching the road, why do all motorists have to suffer?

Motorists have to suffer because it's the law. A green light does not give the driver license to hit everything in its path.

1146. Drivers to exercise due care. (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law to the contrary, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian, or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary. For the purposes of this section, the term "domestic animal" shall mean domesticated sheep, cattle, and goats which are under the supervision and control of a pedestrian.

(321974)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jan 11 12:37:06 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:13:16 2017.

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Well how wide is a tractor trailer? I took a picture from my car on Cross Bay Blvd showing a tractor trailer taking up virtually the entire ten foot lane with perhaps nine inches on each side.

One of the many regulations not enforced by NYPD are truck weight, length and width limitations.

(321975)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by R30A on Wed Jan 11 12:46:59 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:58:50 2017.

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Yes. DeBlasio did exactly what he promised.

(321976)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Wed Jan 11 13:00:44 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:20:09 2017.

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102 inch wide trucks plus safety devices would no longer be allowed.

102 inch wide trucks are illegally on all NYC streets -- for a long time.

(321977)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:00:52 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:45:55 2017.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr
And if the pedestrian gets hit at 30 miles per hour because he was crossing illegally and wasn't watching the road, why do all motorists have to suffer?

Do you realize that you've just asserted that crossing illegally and not watching the road should be punished by death?

I am simply tired of the inference that every passenger fatality is the fault of the driver. There are better ways to improve safety like through better education and not waiting for pedestrian crossings to be totally obliterated before bent restriped.

And I'm tired of the inference that motorists should be able to drive as fast as they want, and the hell with the consequences.

It's the same like punishing all gun owners because of the actions by a few. Guns should not be in the hands of mentally unstable individuals, just like irresponsible drivers should not be on the road.

An apt analogy. Just as mentally unstable people are not the only ones (or even a large share of the ones) who kill and injure other people with guns, your "irresponsible drivers" are not the only ones (or even a large share of the ones) who kill and injure other people on the road.

(321978)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:02:58 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:52:36 2017.

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No I don't drive as fast as I want. I drive as fast as I feel is safe.

There's little, if any, difference in practice.

Often I drive well below the speed limit when I believe it is dangerous to go faster like at night in a rain when pedestrians and cyclists are extremely difficult to see especially when they appear when you don't expect them like the cyclist a few weeks ago who was between the center double yellow line without lights or reflectors and wearing dark clothing.

Or the one you nearly hit on Second Avenue because you weren't looking?

Sometimes I feel they are on a suicide mission. Of course if I had hit him, you would have said that I was wrong and had no business operating a motor vehicle because cyclists and pedestrians are always correct and the motorist is always wrong.

You're putting them in a certain measure of danger simply by operating a motor vehicle. Your share of the responsibility is correspondingly much higher. Don't like it? Don't drive. That's the bargain.

(321979)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:04:21 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:58:50 2017.

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In Brooklyn for example every north south roadway is now 25 mph and there is not a single highway alternative.

You'd never know it to look at the traffic on the north-south streets in Crown Heights. 40-50 mph isn't uncommon at all.


(321980)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:04:43 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Jan 10 21:15:55 2017.

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No, 102" wide trucks are allowed on all truck routes if they are carrying household goods, or on truck routes within a mile of an interchange (which covers a lot of Queens Boulevard) if not.
Ignoring 53' trailers, because....don't get me started...what you wrote only applies to 48' trailers and doubles/twin 28'-6" tandem trailers (which I'm sure you know - just clarifying for others). It doesn't apply single unit trucks and to other Semi-Trailer/Combination trucks, per DOT.

(321981)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:07:57 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:52:36 2017.

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No I don't drive as fast as I want. I drive as fast as I feel is safe.
So if you feel it is safe to do 100mph in a 65mph zone, you do 100mph?

(321982)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:10:51 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by AlM on Wed Jan 11 10:25:09 2017.

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Can't be. At the very least they generate highway/bridge/tunnel toll revenues.

(321983)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:12:23 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 10:59:35 2017.

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That does not mean it cannot be used.
Duh. You left out a word. We're talking about PERFECTLY usable. His point stands.

(321984)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:14:04 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:27:25 2017.

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Why use average speed?

(321985)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:18:40 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:00:52 2017.

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crossing illegally and not watching the road should be punished by death?
No, it's not that it SHOULD be, but rather that it IS. Just like trespassing onto RR property. Trespassing is a minor offense. It certainly shouldn't be punishable by death. But sometimes it just IS.

(321986)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:20:01 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:13:16 2017.

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Well how wide is a tractor trailer?
What length? Are are you talking about how wide it IS or how wide is it allowed to be?

(321987)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:25:59 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 10 17:15:25 2017.

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It came to over 50 Gig. That was for just for the historical data that's available on the MTA site. I just don't have the disk space to download all the data for a proper analysis within its sampling constraints.


bump for Stephen Bauman

How much space would you need?

(321988)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:37:08 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:18:40 2017.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr
That hasn't anything to do with the statement BrooklynBus was making. He was whining that motorists shouldn't have to be burdened with slowing down to protect pedestrians, which essentially is a moral stance asserting that motorists' right to go faster trumps pedestrians' right to stay alive.


(321989)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:42:44 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:39:25 2017.

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I never asserted that they should.

Of course you did, by counting up all the automobile users, no matter how long they stay on the street, and weighing them against all the bus users, no matter how long they stay on the street. By not adjusting for levels of individual usage, you're implying that all users count equally regardless of usage.

I agree that someone who uses the road for a few blocks should not be considered the same like someone who uses the road for a long distance.

Then stop doing it.

By the same token, someone taking the bus for just a few blocks should not be considered the same as someone traveling from Rockaway to Queens Blvd.

Correct: What we really need are passenger-mile figures for both modes.

Having said all that, the numbers of people in cars still greatly outweigh the numbers in buses in this corridor like at least four to one.

And you're right back to ignoring levels of usage.

So one minute lost or gained by a bus passenger equals about four minutes gained or lost by someone in a car when measuring total trip time. So if this plan causes the average bus passenger to save ten minutes but the average car to lose two minutes, you haven't improved anything.

Of course you have: You've improved bus service.

What you meant to say is that there is no net improvement across all modes. And the numbers you gave (ten minutes vs. two) assume five times as many automobile users as bus users, which I think is unlikely.

(321990)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:43:22 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:14:04 2017.

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Because it gives his argument more force. He thinks.


(321991)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:44:28 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:12:01 2017.

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But that doesn't mean that all planners are experts either. And I am not talking about myself either.

Well, yeah, we knew that when you mentioned planners.


(321992)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:58:00 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 13:37:08 2017.

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burdened with slowing down to protect pedestrians
You mean universally slowing down, i.e. in all conditions, including those when no pedestrians are present.



(321993)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by JerBear on Wed Jan 11 14:19:11 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:05:06 2017.

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Late summer I think. Have they striped it off since then? I'll have to borrow the car and go drive down there.

(321994)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 15:17:26 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:58:00 2017.

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Of course, for obvious reasons.


(321995)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 15:24:38 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 10:27:06 2017.

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So what would happen if the lanes on Queens Boulevard were reduced to nine feet wide?

Whoever designed it would be open to losing their engineering license, and would potentially be liable for damage or injury caused by being sideswiped by a truck.

That would bring two sections of the law into conflict with each other (the one defining Queens Boulevard as a Through Truck Route, and the one prohibiting vehicles wider than 96 inches in lanes narrower than ten feet).

The part of the law specifically mentioning 10 foot wide lanes also specifically excludes New York City.

(321996)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 15:31:40 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 12:20:09 2017.

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Funny that DOT never mentioned that when they proposed to narrow the width of lanes on Cross Bay Blvd to squeeze in a bus lane.

The proposed lane width on Cross Bay is 10-11 feet.

(321997)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 15:34:09 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Wed Jan 11 13:00:44 2017.

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102 inch wide trucks are illegally on all NYC streets

Incorrect.

Federal STAA vehicles (pdf) not exceeding 13′6″ in height, 8′6″ in width, 48' trailer length, and the lower of the bridge formula weight or 80,000 pounds, moving household goods can travel on interstates and truck routes. STAA vehicles not moving household goods are limited to one-mile access to and from the exit.

And what about 102" wide buses, of which there are many on Queens Boulevard?

(321998)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 11 15:35:27 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Jan 11 13:04:43 2017.

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Ignoring 53' trailers, because....don't get me started...what you wrote only applies to 48' trailers and doubles/twin 28'-6" tandem trailers (which I'm sure you know - just clarifying for others). It doesn't apply single unit trucks and to other Semi-Trailer/Combination trucks, per DOT.

The lane width doesn't give two s#!tz about your trailer length.

(321999)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by AlM on Wed Jan 11 15:54:31 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 11 11:58:50 2017.

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OK, I didn't realize this discussion was limited exclusively to NYC and had no bearing outside the city.



(322000)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 16:15:15 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 10 18:08:38 2017.

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Treatment of serious, easily preventable diseases. That registers as economic activity because money changes hands, but society would be much better off if these diseases were prevented and the treatment were unnecessary.


(322001)

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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 11 23:02:17 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Wed Jan 11 16:15:15 2017.

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So you subscribe to the broken window fallacy.

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