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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 11:09:58 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Dec 26 23:47:53 2009. The Atlantic Branch is going to become what you hate most after the ESA opens...a shuttle service..Not to long after that,FELLA..it's going BACK TO THE NYCT I think that's how it's going to go down, so we might as well start thinking ahead to that. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 11:22:11 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:52:23 2009. Which would generate more trips, St Johns and Lake Success combined, or Queensborough Community College?Well, as I said, we know about CUNY's expansion plans, we know that QCC is a huge trip generator (the most in Eastern Queens for the bus, I think) and we also know that many trips to Lake Success are by car, and that those drivers are less willing to change modes of transportation since they're not already taking it. An el over the LIE is not going to be much of a NIMBY problem, especially on the section between Queens Blvd and Van Wyck, which is where the line would be elevated. Just look at the LIE in that area. Trust me, it's a problem. Park City, Lefrak City, a brand new luxury condo tower going up at the new shopping mall by Vornado, many apartment buildings....it's a problem, especially since a lot of these are co-op owned, so your el directly hurts their net worth. As for the LIMP ROW, I'm talking about using the section between the Clearview and the GCP. Again, you will be mauled on two sides. First for messing with parkland, which isn't exactly the greatest route for any mass transit to begin with. Second, because there are homes in those areas worth in excess of $1 million, and people who, believe you me, are connected to Queens politics. There definitely is a space issue from Winfield to the west, not sure how that would be overcome other than TBM. I agree. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:19:23 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:09:42 2009. You tell me, you're the one insisting that Oyster Bay is so incredibly out of the way and that the line should be forgotten.Run a few trains per day, peak direction, maybe peak period if that works outs. Cut the rest of the service in accordance with reasonable service interval-loading guidelines. Chalk it up as a loser and dedicate the limited funds to more productive ends. Other than that the alignment from Mineola to Sea Cliff is fairly straight and can handle higher speeds than what are currently reached. Given the small demand, there is no need for multimillion dollar upgrades. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:20:27 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:34:42 2009. How about full time city ticket?It doesn't increase the service to rapid transit standards. it's still the same paltry service intervals, which are likely going to be reduced even further once ESA is operational. This is Brooklyn and Queens we're talking about in between two hubs - commuter rail headways won't do. However, if the commuter RRs are going to continue to schedule trains based on politics, off-peak fares should be adjusted downward to fill up those political extra trains. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:29:08 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:25:59 2009. Face it, the RR built the OB line primarily to serve riders traveling from that area to NYC.Or maybe they built it to get to CT and MA and RI. Who knows? The reality is that it's an awful alignment to get to Jamaica. And in 2010, given proximity to other lines and the fact that most people drive to the train, why spend tens or hundreds of millions or maybe even billions (this is MTA, after all) to shuffle around ridership? As for Brooklyn, I'm saying it's more expensive for riders whose destination or origin (not both) is between Jamaica and FBA. I'm confused. Aren't the origin and the destination usually different? Except for a railfan, maybe? Are you saying that LIRR's customers who get off at ENY or Nostrand Av are the concern? If so, it's ridiculous to hold up progress for that small a crowd, assuming that they don't already have metrocards. Plus, here is another reason why continued LIRR operation holds the line hostage to progress. One way fare from Nostrand Av to East NY is $4.50 off peak/$6.50 peak. The monthly is $149. So how are these people saving money compared to a flat $2.25 fare and $89 monthly? And that's ignoring the rather infrequent service with LIRR completely. And again, what about capacity? I'm not talking about 25-30 years down the road, I'm talking 100 years. In 100 years, I hope that the debates are about rapid transit....on Mars! Still, I think that you are just ignoring the fact that LIRR's continued operation is hampering progress and better quality of life for many people. Brooklyn and Queens need this service now. If you want to look at population, Nassau County's has declined over the last 40 years, while NYC's has grown. And more people live in Brooklyn alone, by far, than in all of Suffolk County. NYCT taking over the Atlantic Line west of Jamaica is a huge net good for everyone. Until that happens, there is only paltry, expensive service at massive subsidy rate under LIRR. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:31:38 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:37:56 2009. The outrage is because people whose needs are met by the Atlantic line will now have to pay more because now they'll have to get a monthly metrocard.You are ignoring the reality that most FBA riders already have metrocards. And further, the ones who don't are a negligible population relative to NYCT takeover ridership. Facts are facts. If the RR bleeds so much money, then why not convert the entire damn system out to Ronkonkoma to subway? LIRR does bleed money. Look at their budget if you don't believe me. Ronkonkoma does not merit rapid transit service simply based on ridership. But Brooklyn and Queens do. That's your fallacy. Loading of trains, not politics, should decide service. Look 100 years into the future and you don't think the Brooklyn line will still be needed for western terminal capacity You are ignoring the transit needs of the biggest city in the country - over 8 million people - regarding a rail line that runs in Brooklyn and in Queens because of your worry about 100 years from now. 100 years from now, as I just said, I hope that capacity issues on interplanetary if not interstellar transit are the issue. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:33:38 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Dec 27 17:12:35 2009. The RR isn't necessarily missing out on the ridership, they're just riding other lines. OB line riders are using the PW and PJ lines, but the OB line can get those riders back by electrifying so that there's more direct service and run times are faster.Again, I view this as useless. Overall, ridership remains pretty much the same, as you say. We just shift which stations, at probably a few hundred million or so. Not practical, in my view. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:50:11 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Dec 27 21:58:13 2009. Out of sheer curiosity, has Queens Village been rezoned?Not yet, I think, though there has been a lot of activity in the surrounding areas. At all events, I would hope that density limits adopted make sense especially on the major thoroughfares and near rail. IIRC, my old neighbourhood, Cambria Heights, was rezoned to considerably more restrictive zoning preventing any hopes of being anything more dense than one and two family homes. You recall correctly. Also, there was Laurelton, St Albans, and Hollis rezoning too. I think that Laurelton rezoning leaves some avenues for development, albeit nothing substantial. They're really limiting their futures, alas. It depends on the corridor that one travels. This is a good point. I was unclear about the 'belt'. Actually, I was thinking of the Clearview alignment as a spur off the LIE line to Hillside Avenue. Oh, I see now. Still, I'd rather leave that for a possible Hillside Av branch extension. I don't think the apartments and condos near Bay Terrace are so deserving... It's relatively dense, co-ops too; I think the only condominiums are Bay Club and the Bay Terrace Townhome Condos. But they like that QM2/2A up there, even if it costs an arm and two legs. The silly MTA takeover was really a lost opportunity to cut a lot of these now-MTAB express routes. Now we'll have to do it by stepping up fares, hopefully radically. Maybe if there's Ft Totten development someday, although I doubt it will come to pass. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:00:26 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:33:38 2009. Well if it comes to shutting the line down or electrifying it, I say electrify it. But for now, I agree, the money could be better spent elsewhere. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:07:07 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:19:23 2009. It's not that demand is small, it's just that the line is really inconvenient for its slow service. The lines scheduling is really weird, I wonder if more consistent scheduling would yield more ridership. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 13:09:07 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:00:26 2009. I wouldn't shut it down, but rather trim back service to meet the demand, which would mean cutting most service. Same goes for the West Hempstead Branch. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:37:37 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:29:08 2009. I was saying if your origin is on one side of Jamaica and your destination is on the other side, then conversion to subway is more expensive. Example, you live in East New York and work in Roslyn, or you live in Carle Place and work at Metrotech.And your example of Nostrand to ENY is totally unreasonable because they can just take the A/C. Any combination except for FBA/Nostrand to Jamaica is unreasonable because it's all served by the subway. The line already runs every 30 mins off peak, how often do you think it needs to be running? Especially with A/C/J right next to it. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:50:47 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:31:38 2009. What facts? You have no facts it's all speculation.And I'm not denying that the RR bleeds money. My suggestion for converting to subway all the way out to Ronkonkoma IS based on ridership. Have you ever ridden a Ronkonkoma train during rush hour? I used to commute regularly on SATURDAYS and that train was SRO, even after Farmingdale. So load based, under your suggestions, it seems we should convert that to subway as well. Not taking the future into account is what leaves us with no CRRLI, no intra-island infrastructure, and it's what's going to keep LIRR from being able to meet potential needs of the island in the future. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 14:00:18 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:07:07 2009. It's not that demand is small, it's just that the line is really inconvenient for its slow service. The lines scheduling is really weird, I wonder if more consistent scheduling would yield more ridership.It's not just small. It's very small. That's one of the facts that I think you've lost sight of, just how small LIRR ridership is, and especially how small it is on the Oyster Bay Branch. In the ESA documents, they surveyed AM peak loading. The Babylon routes were busiest, but even there, we're talking about only 29k people. Oyster Bay Branch ridership was about 1800 people, or about 300 people per AM peak train, if you split them evenly; I've not counted the East Williston train, by the way. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:01:47 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:20:27 2009. Actually, the line operates every 30 mins, hardly paltry. Also, I'm told that one of the standing proposals is to run service every 15-30 mins off peak if they do in fact run the line as a scoot service once ESA is done. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:14:02 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 11:22:11 2009. Oh please! You really don't think people working in Lake Success would switch to the subway? We're not introducing a new bus, it's a rail line. And you've also ignored the fact that St Johns would also be served. Again, which do you think will garner more ridership; St Johns + Lake Success, or Queensboro Community College? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 14:19:45 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:50:47 2009. What facts? You have no facts it's all speculation.Read it over, more carefully. Then look at the documents referenced, all of which are available to you. Have you ever ridden a Ronkonkoma train during rush hour? I used to commute regularly on SATURDAYS and that train was SRO, even after Farmingdale. So load based, under your suggestions, it seems we should convert that to subway as well. Loading/demand determines service intervals. When the service intervals demanded exceed the capability of commuter rail, then it's time for rapid transit. Your anecdotal observations are not much evidence. My suggestion for converting to subway all the way out to Ronkonkoma IS based on ridership. In the ESA documents, LIRR states that the AM peak load on the Ronkonkoma routes was about 18,000. I think that either you've misapprehended the facts, or else we simply disagree about the difference between rapid transit and commuter rail. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:31:54 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 13:09:07 2009. I've actually thought for a while now that the WH-CLP ROW should be rebuilt and the WH line should run intra-island service only (Valley Stream-Nassau Hub). IINM, most of the service already runs as a shuttle only between Valley and WH. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:36:41 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 14:00:18 2009. Oh so now the entire RR is a small operation, moving a fairly insignificant amount of people? The LIRR is the busiest commuter rail service in North America. LIs survival depends on it. All you're doing is looking at numbers as they are and not looking at the reason for the numbers being that way. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:39:47 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 14:19:45 2009. Hey, you said based on loads, so I'm going off my experiences. But show me those facts, because there are no documents showing these imaginary numbers for who's going to ride this new rapid transit service between FBA and Jamaica. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Dec 28 15:43:37 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 14:19:45 2009. When the service intervals demanded exceed the capability of commuter rail, then it's time for rapid transit.Commuter rail isn't a main sequence rail system. It's an oddball. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 28 18:20:11 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 10:31:27 2009. Pretty much. The technology of the multis was developed along with the PCC tech and there are some differences which, if I remember, can be found in a book called "PCC, The Car That Fought Back" the authors of which I can't recall at the moment. |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 18:54:11 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Dec 28 15:43:37 2009. Commuter rail isn't a main sequence rail system.Will the gentleman from the Midlands explain that statement in depth? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:09:15 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 13:37:37 2009. I was saying if your origin is on one side of Jamaica and your destination is on the other side, then conversion to subway is more expensive. Example, you live in East New York and work in Roslyn, or you live in Carle Place and work at Metrotech.Cry me a river for those dozen people (if that). In planning, one has to look at the net time-cost savings and you can't privilege people you prefer. By your reasoning, there was some guy living in Port Washington who commuted to Far Rockaway via the old LIRR Rockaway Branch so that should have held up NYCT takeover there too. And your example of Nostrand to ENY is totally unreasonable Why? Two stations right next to each other on mostly empty trains and the fare is $4.50-6.50 one way. That's what's unreasonable. Any combination except for FBA/Nostrand to Jamaica is unreasonable because it's all served by the subway. How do you get from Downtown Brooklyn to Jamaica by subway? Several ways, mostly convoluted. LIRR has an alignment that isn't much used at all that could be pressed into service to benefit many people. Your opposition is purely driven by sentiment. Think of the imaginary guy who lives in Roslyn and commutes to East New York? What about the guys who want to get from one transit hub in Jamaica to another in the same City in Downtown Brooklyn? You don't give any consideration to them because of your evident biases. The line already runs every 30 mins off peak That's 2 tph middays. How many NYCT lines run 2 tph middays? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:09:41 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:01:47 2009. Actually, the line operates every 30 mins, hardly paltry.By commuter rail standards, that's great. By NYCT standards, it's awful, considering that the service interval is only 20 minutes even during late nights, let alone middays. Also, I'm told that one of the standing proposals is to run service every 15-30 mins off peak if they do in fact run the line as a scoot service once ESA is done. But why would they do that if according to you, LIRR needs this western terminal capacity so badly? The real fact of the matter is that if ESA lives up to projections, LIRR will have a lot more western terminal capacity than it knows what to do given its ridership and amount of rolling stock. |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 21:34:59 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 12:50:11 2009. At all events, I would hope that density limits adopted make sense especially on the major thoroughfares and near rail.The safest route would involve simply upzoning Jamaica Avenue where the commercial activity exists while leaving Hillside as is, and locking down current zones to more restrictive versions of current regulations. I think that Laurelton rezoning leaves some avenues for development, albeit nothing substantial. From layman's cursory glance, the zoning allows the commercial only district to have some degree of medium density allowing for both commercial and residential development. It may be limiting, but presuming no further development of rapid transit, it certainly makes some sense. I'm rather surprised that the Pathmark was snuck into the community in a manufacturing zone... Oh, I see now. Still, I'd rather leave that for a possible Hillside Av branch extension. Despite being an interested party and inheritor of a property on Hillside Avenue, I've been lukewarm to the idea of the Hillside Extension, and in my drunker moments, I look at turning most of the bus network into Southeastern Queens into a streetcar network with tunnels for transfers into the subway. Regardless, I look at this light rail line as a half-assed light rail replacement for the Q88, so it may be useful as a shortcut for some of the locals who work on the other side of the hill, but from my anecdotal experience, the Q88 isn't one of those massively crowded routes begging for more capacity... But they like that QM2/2A up there, even if it costs an arm and two legs. I don't think I've ever seen anything as confusing and annoying as a former private bus line express bus routing. Just out of sheer curiosity, I wonder what has the worst impact on operating costs, the QM2/2A/3, or paying for runs from ESA to turn at Great Neck and telling the locals to make due with a local bus. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:36:04 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 18:54:11 2009. Seconded.Main sequence reminds me of stellar evolution, not rail transit! |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:36:08 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:39:47 2009. so I'm going off my experiences.Anecdotes are interesting; they rarely count for much evidence in the face of contrary statistical weight. because there are no documents showing these imaginary numbers for who's going to ride this new rapid transit service between FBA and Jamaica. Think of it this way: Given that NYCT has several million rides per day and LIRR has several million rides per month, and given that NYCT runs at rapid transit headways at a flat $2.25 fare while LIRR runs at commuter rail headways at peak fare of $8 to get between two major transit hubs both within the City of New York, would you think that there would be much more ridership for the NYCT service? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:36:37 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:14:02 2009. You really don't think people working in Lake Success would switch to the subway?To quote myself in the post that you responded to, Well, as I said, we know about CUNY's expansion plans, we know that QCC is a huge trip generator (the most in Eastern Queens for the bus, I think) and we also know that many trips to Lake Success are by car, and that those drivers are less willing to change modes of transportation since they're not already taking it. Again, which do you think will garner more ridership; St Johns + Lake Success, or Queensboro Community College? Given that I do not see a Union Tpke line as feasible, the latter. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:38:03 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:36:41 2009. All you're doing is looking at numbers as they areThanks. That's what I aim to do. The alternative is wishful thinking. 1800 AM peak riders on the Oyster Bay Branch; that's what LIRR reported. So do you really think it's worth hundreds of millions of dollars to try to double that? If you do, okay then - be a spendthrift with taxpayer money. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:38:12 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:31:54 2009. I've actually thought for a while now that the WH-CLP ROW should be rebuilt and the WH line should run intra-island service only (Valley Stream-Nassau Hub).The West Hempstead Branch alignment is almost as useless as useless gets. I have myself entertained thoughts of doing something more useful with it, but the reality is that it's good for a few peak trains per day with people within walking distance using it, and that's really it. Nassau Hub service might be nice, but I'm skeptical that formidable NIMBY forces can be overcome and also skeptical of further large scale development there. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 22:38:29 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 21:34:59 2009. Your observations on the zoning issues are sound. I would add, though, that if they leave in a little play in the joints, if you play your lots right, you can really surprise the community board with something as of right now and then, and the reaction is just, "What the fu...."The more convoluted the zoning map, the easier to pull such a trick. I'm rather surprised that the Pathmark was snuck into the community in a manufacturing zone... I'm sure you mean the "Pathmark Plaza"....Springfield & Merrick Blvds? That was not done as of right. Way before my time, but it was a big political battle. The endgame involved the City Council essentially making an exception, which it did, that allowed a food store of that size - Pathmark - to be the complex's anchor tenant. By contrast, nearby Springfield Gardens Plaza, done by Forest City Ratner around 2001, was as of right. Despite being an interested party and inheritor of a property on Hillside Avenue Nothing wrong with that! I look at turning most of the bus network into Southeastern Queens into a streetcar network with tunnels for transfers into the subway. I just don't see it happening. There is pretty good penetration with the LIRR; if that could be turned into something beneficial for the area, that would do a world of good, at least in terms of knocking off chunks of commute time. Regardless, I look at this light rail line as a half-assed light rail replacement for the Q88 The LIE one, that is? I wouldn't say that, although there is a lot of overlap, to be sure. Just out of sheer curiosity, I wonder what has the worst impact on operating costs, the QM2/2A/3, or paying for runs from ESA to turn at Great Neck and telling the locals to make due with a local bus. All you'd have to do really would actually be to run more local bus service, especially on the Q13/16/28 I would think. Maybe run some current express trains on the Port Washington Branch local. I lived there and did the local bus/LIRR deal. More reliably faster, albeit much more expensive. Then again, most of my neighbors were doing pretty well, and if not, the bus gets to Main St with a free transfer there. My former neighbors, though, they have political clout far in excess of their numbers. I'll add that I have a friend who lives in Flushing. Great view and when you look toward College Point Depot and the expressway there, the sight of so many buses, mostly deadheading I guess, is maddening! |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 22:52:57 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 22:38:29 2009. Here's a decent NYT real estate piece on the details I left out on Pathmark Plaza. |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 23:18:36 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 22:38:29 2009. I'm sure you mean the "Pathmark Plaza"....Springfield & Merrick Blvds?Yes, that small shopping centre. The opening of that unit basically changed our shopping habits to where we no longer had to go to Nassau County as often for food shopping. IIRC, that PathMark was the best supermarket in the area, and that oddly, that PathMark is in better condition than the one closest to me here in Nassau county. BTW, isn't "Springfield Gardens Plaza" the Home Depot? There is pretty good penetration with the LIRR The theory behind the streetcar network was that while the LIRR would serve the long-distance needs, the streetcars would basically be a local service for ferrying around the carless to Jamaica and for those who still needed the subway. Of course, together, both are expensive capital projects, while you're right in noting that the LIRR would cut commute times, it's pretty expensive for operating purposes. Sadly, our three door, 85 ft cars with OPTO operation will never happen... I lived there and did the local bus/LIRR deal. More reliably faster, albeit much more expensive. The fun part is that express bus users get the $45 weekly that costs $56.75 for Zone 3 users and doesn't come with free transfers to NYCTA. Even Metro-North's weekly for $50.50 isn't as good as deal as the express bus weekly. |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Tue Dec 29 00:33:37 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Dec 28 23:18:36 2009. Yes, that small shopping centre. The opening of that unit basically changed our shopping habits to where we no longer had to go to Nassau County as often for food shopping.That was the goal, after all, so at least they hit the mark. Once they got Floyd Flake on board, that clinched it, no doubt. He is the Lord of Southeast Queens. BTW, isn't "Springfield Gardens Plaza" the Home Depot? Originally intended to have a multiplex anchor, and to be far more grand, if you can believe that. Not sure what happened, though, since obviously Forest City Ratner spun it off into something quite different. The theory behind the streetcar network was that while the LIRR would serve the long-distance needs As you know, I also favor conversion to rapid transit, which solves another set of problems in one stroke. The fun part is that express bus users get the $45 weekly that costs $56.75 for Zone 3 users and doesn't come with free transfers to NYCTA. Even Metro-North's weekly for $50.50 isn't as good as deal as the express bus weekly. You've put your finger on the best deal in transit. I was definitely envious even being able to afford the difference. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Dec 29 05:11:43 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by 33rd Street on Sat Dec 26 06:19:29 2009. I really would love at least a set up like 135th for the 2/3.At least then the E would have a connection to Brooklyn in case there's some emergency on 8th Av or something or the R needs to get to Lower Manhattan, but there's some problem on Broadway. Even if it's non-revenue, the flexibility would be very beneficial overall like the 63rd St tunnel is for the E and R if their respective tunnels have problems. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Dec 29 05:15:54 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Dec 26 08:00:18 2009. My idea is that the A and C would remain express from Hoyt to Utica. Once the W splits off from the Fulton line, then the C resumes as the local to Euclid. Thus the W would have no impact on the A/C lines.The T would basically replace the M from Chambers to 36th and then take over the R to Bay ridge and being 24/7 it would be a perfect 'parallel' line to the 4/5. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Dec 29 05:19:17 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Concourse Express on Sat Dec 26 16:42:03 2009. Totally agreed about making the Concourse line 4-tracks and turning 161st-Yankees stadium into an express stop and extending the line to run under the 2/5 lines. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Tue Dec 29 05:42:48 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Dec 25 15:55:30 2009. Personally I would rather the Q go to Astoria and the N to 125th/8th av via 2nd av and 125th. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:10:38 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:38:12 2009. Well who knows, maybe if we're lucky things will change in the future and the hub will be Long Island's White Plains |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:12:22 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:38:03 2009. As I said, there definitely is better ways to spend the money. I was simply suggesting a way to boost ridership on the line. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:30:08 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:09:15 2009. A dozen people? There are only 12 people riding from Nassau/Suffolk counties, destined for downtown Brooklyn? There's only 12 people living near the Atlantic Av line working on LI? You clearly have no concept of reality. And you're calling me biased....what a joke.The reason your example of someone traveling from Nostrand to ENY is ridiculous is because they can already take an existing subway. And I already said that for people trying to travel between Jamaica and Brooklyn a solution would be to introduce full time city ticket (hey, it would be a super express compared to other subway lines, so a premium fare is fair). As for the frequency, every 30 mins off peak is probably enough given that very few trips along this line can not be completed by subway. And as I mentioned before, the RR is considering running the line at 4tph. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:31:17 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:36:08 2009. I already suggested full time city ticket. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:33:08 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:09:41 2009. I've said repeatedly that the capacity is needed in the FUTURE, not right after ESA. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:35:26 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Dec 28 21:36:37 2009. You want to see a train at QCC so bad that you'll completely ignore anything else. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 30 08:50:59 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Dec 28 14:14:02 2009. The subway will never reach Nassau or Westchester Counties. (It only looks like it's in Richmond County thanks to the rolling stock.) |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by trainsarefun on Wed Dec 30 23:34:40 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Dec 30 03:35:26 2009. Again, to quote myself in the post that you responded to,To quote myself in the post that you responded to, Well, as I said, we know about CUNY's expansion plans, we know that QCC is a huge trip generator (the most in Eastern Queens for the bus, I think) and we also know that many trips to Lake Success are by car, and that those drivers are less willing to change modes of transportation since they're not already taking it. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by David Fairthorne on Thu Dec 31 00:02:16 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 23 20:00:47 2009. What I'd like to see in a quasi-realistic sense...I don't know New York well enough to comment in detail, but these ideas do seem "quasi-realistic". As a general rule, the trouble with spur lines is that if a line has many branches it becomes more difficult to operate reliably, and the maximum trains per hour may have to be reduced. That's why very busy systems like the Moscow subway have just one route per line. The Pelham line already has an awful lot of stops, and any extension would add even more; perhaps you could consider closing a few of the least busy stations (E 143 St is one of them). |
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Re: 34th Street Crosstown Line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Dec 31 01:50:16 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Dec 23 15:22:46 2009. As said before on this:If we were to have such a line, I think that would serve better as an elevated line that perhaps could in turn be extended into Queens via a new, rail-only bridge that perhaps could become the Queens Super Express, first stopping above ground with connections to the E/G/V/7 at 23rd/Ely/Court Square and then going non-stop to a terminal using the never-used upper level of Roosevelt Avenue (with tracks that also would lead to the Jamaica Yards). On the Manhattan side, the stops would be 1st-2nd Avenues, Park-Madison Avenues (MetroCard transfer to the 6), Broadway-7th Avenues (MetroCard transfers to the B/D/F/N/Q/R/W/V/1/2/3) and 8th-9th Avenues (MetroCard transfers to the A/C/E) before at 10th Avenue turning and becoming a 10th Avenue El that would stop at 39th-42nd Street (including a transfer to the 7 if there is a stop at 41st/10th on that line), 50th-53rd Streets, 62nd-65th Street and a terminal at 72nd Street/Broadway and a transfer to the 1/2/3 there. The likelyhood of that isn't much, but to me is the best way of doing a 34th Street crosstown. |
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Re: Future expansion wish list? |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Dec 31 01:54:00 2009, in response to Re: Future expansion wish list?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 26 16:14:22 2009. Is that really from an old 386 computer?I have a Pentium 4 from 2001 with 512MB of RAM that became obsolete this year (I can still use it for basis stuff, but not much else at this point). |
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