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What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Mar 14 21:45:19 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by R33 9139 on Mon Mar 14 09:18:15 2005.

Speaking of using logos, there's that coffee shop near the exit of the E/V trains do they have permission from the MTA to use those exact logos and now that it's the V did they make it Cof(V)(E)e?

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Metropod on Mon Mar 14 21:49:33 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

i really think the MTA is going a bit overboard with this. it'sone thing to intentionaly break cpoyright laws, it another to do it without knowing it existedaed

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 14 21:51:39 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by AlM on Mon Mar 14 19:28:53 2005.

I disagree. I think it looks very close - close enough to cause a problem.

Well, it will be up to a judge. If the judge rules in his favor, the guy can keep his sign.

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?


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Re: Even better one

Posted by Metropod on Mon Mar 14 21:52:09 2005, in response to Re: Even better one, posted by Arrow III MU on Mon Mar 14 16:40:44 2005.

who do you chase after, poular show whose logo looks like a tribble with a Q tatto, or a small bagel shop. they have thier proties mixed up

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Mar 14 21:54:12 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Mar 14 17:59:25 2005.

That's what I'd like to know

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 14 21:59:06 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Metropod on Mon Mar 14 21:49:33 2005.

The owner knew exactly what he was doing.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BMTLines on Mon Mar 14 21:59:56 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 14 21:51:39 2005.

Well, it will be up to a judge. If the judge rules in his favor, the guy can keep his sign.

In an ideal world that would be true - but the MTA has deep pockets and can afford to tie the small bagel shop up in court for years and even drive them out of business in the process.

What concerns me even more is the attitude of the MTA with respect to the memorabilia. Does this apply to Redbird memorabilia only? What about pre-1940 BMT memorabilia?

The MTA is going too far here!

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:12:26 2005, in response to What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?, posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Mar 14 21:45:19 2005.


I want that rich, brown JMZ blend.

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by vengence on Mon Mar 14 22:14:22 2005, in response to Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:12:26 2005.

French Vannila style....light n sweet...in a Great One Mug...

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:15:58 2005, in response to Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?, posted by vengence on Mon Mar 14 22:14:22 2005.


You mean that 6th Ave blend? (B)old, (D)ark (F)rench (V)anilla? I heard it's only served on weekdays.

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:20:56 2005, in response to Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:12:26 2005.


A blend of (J)amaican and (M)orrocan beans. I hear it has a lot of (Z)ip.

OK, I'll stop now.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Mon Mar 14 22:22:36 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

Dang, you guys beat me to the punch. :) Here's a blog anyway on the bagel place

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BMT Dude on Mon Mar 14 22:25:52 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 09:06:04 2005.

Paul, as a goy would say....Oy, what da hell is a shmear???

:-D

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Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?

Posted by M15 to South Ferry on Mon Mar 14 22:27:14 2005, in response to Re: What about the Cof(F)(E)e shop at 51st?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:15:58 2005.

Catchy - you should copyright it asap :)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by 7 to Main St on Mon Mar 14 22:35:32 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

Just seen this on tv, WTF is MTA thinking.

I find it wrong for what there doing. The bagel shop looks freaken AWESOME in its decor, and if the bastard MTA wins, whats gonna happen to the shop? Bye Bye I guess, which is not right.

I find it rediculis that the MTA sells its stuff, yet bitch's if its used in the right, yet there "wrong". Why dont they go sue some of the museum sites because there running MTA cars, I mean, if you can buy MTA official stuff, and get sued for using it, why should the bagel shop be the only one f'ed over?

Also, wtf, they said if the store continues, they got to pay MTA everything. So how do they expect the store to stay in business?

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 14 22:42:58 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by jabrams on Mon Mar 14 21:00:17 2005.

To get a trademark they have to use those letter/color combinations "in commerce." If they just keep them in reserve, I would say they cannot get a vaild tradmark on them.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:45:56 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Richard Rabinowitz on Mon Mar 14 22:22:36 2005.


Even if the MTA makes 'em fork over some dough (no pun intended), the publicity alone will more than make up for it.

BTW, didn't anyone notice the irony of a couple of guys with Arabic names making bagels?

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 14 22:47:52 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:45:56 2005.

America, what a country!

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:49:27 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 14 22:47:52 2005.


Right here on Jamaica Ave, our bagel joint is run by Koreans. The really funny thing is that their bagels are good.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:54:57 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by 7 to Main St on Mon Mar 14 22:35:32 2005.


The MTA has a point. However, a quick deal between them and the MTA, like an annual licence fee is all that's called for. In fact, this may be a way for the MTA to raise additional revenues:

F Line Bagels

BQ Burgers

R & W Sex Toys & Erotic Clothing



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by 7 to Main St on Mon Mar 14 23:03:19 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:54:57 2005.

What fee, half the price of a bagel goes to MTA? How much you think this place even makes.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Mar 14 23:16:48 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 09:06:04 2005.

Paul, I think that's unfair. If there is a violation of intellectual property copyright then there is only one side. If the bullets are not copyrighted, then I'd say it's a whore different story.

30 odd years ago, my family had a business in Ozone Park. The name of the business was the same as a relatively famous snack food. When we moved to Howard Beach we had a new sign made up for the store. Instead of using our previous logo, the sign maker used an owl that looked very much like the trademark owl of this famous snack food. We promptly received communication from an attorney that we were infringing on their trademark and we had no choice but to have the sign re-painted. Sheets Happen

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 14 23:22:02 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by BMT Dude on Mon Mar 14 22:25:52 2005.

what da hell is a shmear???

A secondary meaning of shmear is a bribe. Perhaps, this whole affair is an attempt to get Uncle Al to place another phone call for a fee? :=)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 14 23:42:46 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 14 23:22:02 2005.

Uncle Al sells MIGHTY pricey crim chiz ... :)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by the joe on Tue Mar 15 00:39:42 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

There is a bar right by the Broadway in astoria on the N called 'Broadway station' - with an N bullet.

I guess this is why the MTA has so many lawyers on it's payroll...

..lawyers that are obviously sleeping on the job, as these businesses have been around for awhile now.

If the press really wants to MTA bash, they oughta look into that little aspect of this situation...

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by G1Ravage on Tue Mar 15 01:19:27 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by 7 to Main St on Mon Mar 14 23:03:19 2005.

The proceeds the MTA makes go to the Transit Museum, according to the news report.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by G1Ravage on Tue Mar 15 01:20:47 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

Well, the legal reason for this is because while people OBVIOUSLY will know this isn't a subway station, they could think it's in some way owned or related to the MTA.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Mar 15 01:22:34 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Mar 14 23:22:02 2005.

I thought a "shmear" was the buttering of the bagel.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 06:29:03 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Train Dude on Mon Mar 14 23:16:48 2005.


Frankly, if all the MTA's problem is with the use of the bullet on the sign in front, then the owners should change the sign. The brothers were complaining about the $1000 they spent on the memorabilia, but I don't think the handholds are the problem. I also don't think their tiles inside are a problem, especially the "F Line Bagels" written in tile.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BIE on Tue Mar 15 06:42:31 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 06:29:03 2005.

It's the signage and the uniforms.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 06:57:13 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by BIE on Tue Mar 15 06:42:31 2005.


I didn't notice the uniforms. What are they wearing?

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 07:03:50 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 06:57:13 2005.


The Post had a follow-up story this morning. A lawyer for the bagel shop owners said that the MTA and the owners will probably sit down and break bread and discuss the proper amount of tribute due the MTA.

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/42538.htm




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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Metropod on Tue Mar 15 07:35:47 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Mar 14 21:59:06 2005.

but he didn't know about the whole commercial use thing

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 15 07:45:10 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Mar 15 01:22:34 2005.

I thought a "shmear" was the buttering of the bagel.

That is its primary definition and its meaning in this case. Clearly, "shmear" and the english "smear" have a common root. There isn't much difference in meaning between the two: to spread or daub with a sticky, greasy or dirty substance.

Like the english "grease", there is a secondary definition of petty bribery as opposed to the secondary definition of the english "smear": to villify. One might "shmear" the maitre d' at a crowded restaurant to get seated quickly.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 07:58:18 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by jabrams on Mon Mar 14 20:55:07 2005.

"Does every "Subway Sandwich Shop" pay a royalty to the MTA for their reproductions of subway maps?"

The copyright on the old subway maps expired decades ago. The MTA does not have any claim to them. But Doctors Associates (Subway Sandwich shops) does hold the copyright on their wallpaper design.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 08:04:43 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Metropod on Tue Mar 15 07:35:47 2005.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 15 08:05:16 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 15 07:45:10 2005.

'Clearly, "shmear" and the english "smear" have a common root.'

In Danish, 'smor' (with a slash through the o, pronounced like the German o-umlaut) is the actual word for butter. Hence 'smorrebrod' (buttered bread) as the name for open-faced sandwiches in Danish.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Max Roberts on Tue Mar 15 08:22:01 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

Can you really trademark a letter of the alphabet in America? If so, I'm off to do the rest of the alphabet all in light blue bullets, so that if the 2nd Av Subway ever opens in my lifetime, the MTA will have to pay me to use them.

How about changing the font? Or the colour slightly? Presumably the name is OK, its just the bullet that infringes.

If someone over in London opened a store called "Victoria Line Jellied Eels" I wonder whether TfL would try to get them. Probably, but I don't think they would succeed.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 08:25:35 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 06:57:13 2005.

"What are you wearing? You DO realize that you've just invited all of the AOL chat rooms to swagger on yonder ... the PROPER answer to the question is ALWAYS "a black teddy" ... in THIS case however, the answer was a black baseball cap with a genuwine Teeyay bullet.

I have an entirely DIFFERENT take on all this as usual ... heh. Here we have the state of new york (no 'capitols' deserved) as usual PUNISHING business for taking advantage of the benefits of BEING in new york ... so the subway system has LOGOS ... they're *PUBLIC* logos ... last I noticed, you wouldn't be USING them if you weren't IN TOWN. Nobody out of town would GET it ... hell ... "Subway sandwich shops, Inc" makes some money playing with NYC subway concepts - after all, you don't have to ever have set foot in new york to *know* that BMT is a subway. :(

Is MTA suing THEM? Nope. They're not taxpayers. And the TAXPAYERS own them damned logos ... "WE the people" ... here goes new york again, punishing businesses for showing off their pride in new york's subway and using what is a FRIGGING JOKE to the locals (c'mon ... F train? G train? SERVICE SUCKS! (whine, whine, wimper, it's real)) ... :(

If's like "I HEART NEW YORK" ... and "MADE IN NEW YORK" ... ANYBODY remember THEM?

OUR company, PROUDLY located in the hills of upstate new york, wanted to put the "Made in New York" logo on our SOFTWARE. Ain't many software companies actually turning a profit in New York as it is, and the EuroLeetCoders are KICKING OUR ASSES. :(

That's why I hired in Europe this last round ... double :(

We got threatened by the state TOO for appropriating an TRUTHFUL article, and upon NOT being able to contact anyone within "State Economic Development" to tell us WHO to ask for a permit. They told us, "we're not doing that anymore" ... but when we used the logo, WOOHOO did we get spanked. I guess Albany isn't part of new york. :(

NOBODY gets to use "I [heart] New York" either ... that TOO is verboten. Rauss! (frump) ... and in case the word ain't gotten out, "Big Apple" is also dead. This WHOLE THING is *SO* stupid ... and TYPICAL "political appointee" for this state. Doesn't AL D'AMATO get ENOUGH vigorish? :(

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 15 08:53:24 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 08:25:35 2005.

...but not the "Little Apple", the moniker of Manhattan, Kansas. Home of the mighty K-State Wildcats! More to the point, IAWTP.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 08:57:41 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Max Roberts on Tue Mar 15 08:22:01 2005.

Max,

You are missing the point.

The MTA uses the symbols (a/k/a bullets) in particular number/letter/color combinations in order to represent the services they provide for which they are paid (the fares). They also issue publications (maps, brochures etc) which utilitize these symbols. Publications can be copyrighted and since the symbols as used by the MTA are somewhat unique to the MTA they can claim rights to them.

The use of the F symbol by the bagel shop in the white letter on orange disk motif was an obvious attempt (don't tell me they didn't know) on the part of the Assad brothers to capitalize on the subway and its imagery (the tiles on the walls).

I read the part about the fact that they bought $1,000 of subway memorabilia to decorate the store. I don't think any of that is causing the problem (I think it is just an attempt of the Assads to divert attention from the real problem). There is a Deli in Staten Island that actually has a R1/9 subway car inside. Ellens Stardust Diner in Manhattan has a recreated subway car as the storefront. In neither case are they using any MTA symbols in their businesses.

As for Subway sandwich shops using B.M.T. as part of their menu. The legal (copyrighted) usage of the letters as related to the NYC subway stopped when the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Company went out of business in 1940 as the City of NY took over the operations. The same goes for the Interborough Rapid Transit Company (IRT). In fact these days (although they keep trying) the MTA doesn't even use IRT, BMT and IND as official designations.

For the Subway shops B.M.T actually means B (this one I don't remember) M = meat, T = Tomato. Oh and as I mentioned in other postings the copyrights on the old subway maps expired decades ago so that is why they used it in their wallpaper (and then copyrighted it).


"Can you really trademark a letter of the alphabet in America? If so, I'm off to do the rest of the alphabet all in light blue bullets, so that if the 2nd Av Subway ever opens in my lifetime, the MTA will have to pay me to use them."

If you copyright them it means that you intend to use them in print or other medium. You can't just copyright something and never use it.



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 08:58:44 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Metropod on Tue Mar 15 07:35:47 2005.

Yeah, heaven forfend a business in new york be able to USe that for an advanatage, no matter how ill-conceived. :(

And ALLAN, shame on you ... I thought you were at least a little "pro-business" ... I don't see how it reflects poorly on the politicos, I've passed this story along to the second floor with the angle I'm expressing here. MAYBE if they was in Joisey or Conecticut I could see the MTA getting a bit miffed ... I don't see it the same way as China selling knockoff shirts on Canal Street (have there been any prosecutions THERE?) with the wonderous, PATENTED MTA map ... gimme a break. Damned business is paying NYS and NYC taxes ... they EARNED the use of what they PAID for in taxes. :(

I just don't SEE this the same way you guys do - how DARE the MTA turn around and sue us who pay the TAXES for the slackers in that dump in Brooklyn ... more chiefs than indians? Hatchet deserves to be swung ... but at JAY street, not Smith.

Morons at the MTA should be PROUD that a business takes such pride in their broke-ass subway that they'd HONOR it on the front porch. Morons. :(

And *I* am a businessman - this ain't liber-rail spout. :(

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Tue Mar 15 09:00:15 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 15 08:05:16 2005.

Interesting.

Einstein's bagels advertises giving you a bagel with a shmear of cream cheese.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Alex L. on Tue Mar 15 09:04:18 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 08:57:41 2005.

For the Subway shops B.M.T actually means B (this one I don't remember) M = meat, T = Tomato. Oh and as I mentioned in other postings the copyrights on the old subway maps expired decades ago so that is why they used it in their wallpaper (and then copyrighted it).

It being a sandwich shop, one would imagine that B stands for Bread.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 09:10:57 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 08:57:41 2005.

Allan, buddy ... you're really INTO this ... I'm impressed.

OK ... legally, it's "commercial use" indeed ... it IS an appropriation of a trademark without authorization ... but it's also PUBLIC property, and corporations are PEOPLE under New York State law ... this is *SO* typical of why new york is wiping up the ASS of Alabama. :(

The "Trademark" I thought was to keep people from selling maps and protecting new york against "foreign competition" ... not that I can even CONCEIVE of the legality of "we the people" owning intangibles in restraint of trade OF OUR PHUCKING OWN! :(

The businesspeople are NOT selling transportation services - I'll bet they ain't even selling MEATBALLCARDS ... last I checked, bagel stands ON the subway are no longer, so what's the PRIME DIRECTIVE basis of a trademark infringement/copyright suit in "resulting in market confusion?" Is George ELMER Paturkey and his fiefdom of republicans above the law? The state had no right to patent/copyright those items in the FIRST place - that they were allowed to is amazing, byut the BAD taste in prosecuting a LOCAL for using them is profoundly stupid and will result in griveous ecomonic damage to this state ...

HINT TO REPUBLICANS: MORE TAXES, FEWER JOBS

Lemme put it to you THIS way ... HEWLETT PACKARD ripped off our software company for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Our name has been ripped off in foreign lands where the courts no longer recognize the United States (we decided not to be part of the world court) ... I could go on and on. Piracy and trademark theft go on unabated every day. OK, so pyhrric victory - MTA squashes those "damedn towelheads" like a grape ... the benefit? Could you explain what THAT would be?

THIS is STUPID ... LET the damned towelheads have the logos - make them spend a saturday riding an arnine and let them off. They've shown CREATIVITY ... and YOUR assholes gave them better publicity than I ever could have at Young and Rubicam for MILLIONS. Your agency is a ship of fools ... and you DESERVE the head-knocking y'all gonna get for this whenever Paturkey returns from his fund-raising junket. :(

Nothing personal ... but how DARE the MTA go after LOCALS. :(

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Max Roberts on Tue Mar 15 09:18:35 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 08:57:41 2005.

No, no, my point is that just because a rich company decides to pay to trademark something, it doesn't mean that it can be trademerked, at least in the UK. So there are 3 issues, at least there would be here.

Is the trademark valid. Is it distinctive enough for the creator to have eclusive rights to using it?

Is the trademark merely a piece of generic information, or a mere fact. It is a mere fact that the F train serves the district. For example, if I were to write a guidebook to NY and use NYC Subway bullets, could MTA insist a payment.

Is there a passing-off issue? Is the establishment trying to make itself appear to be an official MTA eating place?

In this case, I would argue that the Bullets were not a valid trademark and had been granted in error, that letters in coloured bullets are merely a generic means of presenting differentiated information (take a look at the Zapf Dingbats font, I use these every day in my lectures), and that the use of these in a store name is mere advertising its proximity to an NYC Subway line.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Allan on Tue Mar 15 09:20:44 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 08:58:44 2005.

"And ALLAN, shame on you ... I thought you were at least a little "pro-business""

Unca Kevin - I work for the 2nd largest financial institution in the U.S. ($1.1 Tillion in assets) so I am quite "pro-business". I am not, however, in favor of someone trying to make money on someone elses easily recognized symbols (even if it has nothing to do with the goods and services provided by the copyright holder).

If you are going into business you are supposed to check out all aspects to make sure you are not violating any law. If you don't then you are either a poor businessperson or a dishonest one.

As for the the Assads (the Bagel shop owners) I would like to think they fall into the first category but am leaning towards the second.

I have to be on the side of the MTA on this one.




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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 09:27:29 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 15 08:53:24 2005.

It's damned sad actually ... After the thirty plus years whwen *I* worked for the "MTA" and the realroad THUCKED ... "only reason anyone goes on the subway is to *DIE*" ... here the MTA finally has something SUFFICIENTLY proud of for a COMMERCIAL enterprise to make the rickety-rack subway (ever BEEN to Smith9th? Ever SEEN the "wreckage above" from street level? AGGGH!) and HONOR it by incorporating their location as part of a theme?

Any *OTHER* place than new york would take political PRIDE in "wow, we're doing OK if businesses are USING us for our mutual advantage - they stuff our coffers, WE get recognition for all the work we've done the past few decades!" ... PERFECT photo-op for TWU and the politicos.

AH ... but *THIS* is new york ... small-minded pencil dicks with so LITTLE to do for what the taxpayers are paying them in abundance that they have to do *THIS* ... ummmm ... fare hikes needed owing to taxpayer WASTE? Ummmmmm ... I think I just spotted something that needs a bit of budget trimming. :)

It'd be ONE thing if they were mass-marketing goods at the expense of the MTA gift-shop ... if this really *IS* the excuse for all this, then the museum can pyth up a rope for another penny. I can OPERATE subway trains at Branford and Kingston ... and can I at Court street? Methinks not ... you're the weakest link, byebye. :(

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Peter Rosa on Tue Mar 15 09:30:38 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Max Roberts on Tue Mar 15 08:22:01 2005.

so that if the 2nd Av Subway ever opens in my lifetime

It won't.

If someone over in London opened a store called "Victoria Line Jellied Eels"

Bleccch!!

My LIRR/NYCT blog



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 09:42:06 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Tue Mar 15 07:03:50 2005.

They shouldn't have to pay a *DIME* as I've tried to illustrate in other threads ... If government can hold a copyright, then maybe we have ADDITIONAL rights to use the subway under FTC regulations for consumer fraud. OK, a bit far-fetched and TOO "strappie" but still ...

Any COMPETENT lawyer has the argument that the BASIS of the "infringement" has no LEGAL merit at all. Bagels are NOT what you buy from a meatball card machine. The "towelheads" do NOT give rides (at least I hope not) ... so where is the ...

"MARKET CONFUSION?"

Those two words are the whole basis of the law ... that someone might be MISLEAD into buying from a fraudulent USER of another's property.

Can ANYBODY tell me how they INFRINGED? :(

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