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(64468)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:26:18 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Allan on Thu Mar 17 08:12:26 2005.

Just for giggles, let's take another tack on this issue ...

Does the MTA license "dining services" in its various properties (sorta like NEDICK'S in the good old days) to use MTA logos as a means of "making it more official a vendor", thus worthy of PREMIUM rent? I'm trying to find a priory where the MTA makes food concession determinations which involves the licensing of that logo for food service purposes ... some basis by which these guys are ripping off the MTA for some food service "branding" thingy ... THAT would be something "spongeworthy" as an argument.

I understand that the MTA went and copyrighted, patented, yada yada but I find it HIGHLY offensive that a government agency would engage in prior restraint of trade without some worthy purpose other than jacking up the taxpayer ... I mean, we're talking COMMERCE here, not political subdivions and authorities. Why did they do that in the first place? It's not like the subways (and associated paraphernalia) are proprietary or private property. Or are we dealing with minds SO small that somebody decided to do that so that the "adult entertainment" couldn't do a film called "Going (D)own on Senator Joe?" :)

But don't mind me ... as the signals go dead, the tunnels fill with smoke and "you can't get there from here" ... it kinda irks me that THIS is an issue the MTA lawyers would be involved in. Shouldn't they be suing Bombardier or marking documents "top secret" that have Al Damato's "While you were out" slips? Or something USEFUL? Strikes me as a potential cost savings ... :(

(64469)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:29:54 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:26:18 2005.

OOooooo! And ANOTHER thing ... did MTA license Viacom/CBS for Dave Letterman to have that animated D TRAIN "bumper" with full orange background bullet in the window of the cartoon R68 rolling down the rails? Anybody sue CBS yet?

Like I said, this story not being settled for a dollar by now is the kind of thing that goes a *LONG* way at a Senate hearing where MTA is hat in hand looking for subsidy "because WE create jobs upstate" ... this episode is a grenade with the pin out hat in hand before UPSTATE republicans for money.

THIS story should have NEVER made the press ... it's talked about QUITE a bit in Albany on a "these people need ANOTHER spanking? What kinda MORONS are on the MTA board to be pulling this?"

MTA dumb as box of bowling balls. :(

(64470)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:36:54 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 08:21:04 2005.

Heh. I actually DID a Wimpy's in the East End ... after that, I stuck with the Indians and the Chinese. Heh. I think it was the blood pudding did it for me - with chips of course. :P

I'm of Scottish heritage - I'd rather the jellied eels - they beat a haggis HANDS down! (grin)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 08:49:28 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:36:54 2005.

"I'm of Scottish heritage - I'd rather the jellied eels - they beat a haggis HANDS down! (grin)"

Well, Selkirk is in Scotland, of course (8-) !

I'm English, but I quite like haggis. A good Burns Night dinner (haggis with tatties and neeps, and whisky of course) is fun. Not wild about black pudding. Have only had jellied eels the once, even though I am a more-or-less Londoner, but quite liked them too. Got them at Tubby Isaacs, the best-known jellied-eel stall in the East End.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 09:05:25 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 08:49:28 2005.

YES! Tubby's! Went there, didn't partake. Folks on this side of the puddle will NEVER get it, but it's quite YOUR "Nathan's" :)

Fortunately, I live in (just to complete the hysterics) the TOWN OF NEW SCOTLAND, Albany county. Heh. Getting fine single-malts, Walker's shortbread and marmelade and all is a cinch. However finding decent SCONES, fuggedabouddit. :(

But I'm not into that much - I'm more Tex-Mex, Carribean and French dining myself. And we've got a Chinese place to DIE for - and I say that as someone who lived in the city - the folks here in town can kick ANY NYC Chinese restaurant's BUTT. Ed Koch WAS wrong ... sure the guys up here where gingham kilts ... but there *IS* Chinese food upstate. It just ain't to be had in ALBANY. (grin)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Max Roberts on Thu Mar 17 09:06:19 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 08:49:28 2005.

Must admit to never having tried jellied eels, despite every day on the way to school walking past a stand that sold them opposite Peckham Rye.

Worse still, I prefer my haggis without Scottish poetry. Having lived in Scotland for a year, I can categorically state that all the legends about bad food and bad diet in Scotland are correct.

Black pudding I love, but the British are sometimes quite squeamish about it. In Belgium last year, after being unable to get a satisfactory translation from a waiter, I ended up with two enormous whole black puddings, some salad, and a big dish of apple sauce. Daunting, but it enjoyable once I got started. Someone else on another table was completely stumped, and ended up with raw minced steak in a bagette (called Americain for some reason). Her face was a picture when I told her hapf way through what she had been eating.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 09:13:10 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Mar 14 22:49:27 2005.

The first Mexican food place I ever saw in Europe was in Amsterdam. It served raw herring tacos......

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 09:14:08 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 08:49:28 2005.

However, I really don't like bagels much - too chewy.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 17 09:23:14 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 06:32:28 2005.

I forgot the two feet of snow.:)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 09:33:52 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 17 09:23:14 2005.

Well, this is the Bronx I'm talking about - 12 inches was NEWS ... no, it was the usual 2-4 inches on top of ice from the rain that turned to snow ... at oh-dark-hundred in the morning and nine degrees, that bus (think it was the 20) wouldn't make it up that hill on Bailey Place ... pretty steep from there up to Fort Indepenence ... any schmutz, and fuggedaboudda bus ... they come DOWN, they no go UP. Pretty sure it was the 20 ... or the 12, but I think it was the 20. Did its turnaround at 231st at the el ... Mosholu Parkway out to the east ...

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Mar 17 10:35:59 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 08:26:18 2005.


Why did they do that in the first place? It's not like the subways (and associated paraphernalia) are proprietary or private property.

First, they must enforce their rights over the trademarks, or they will lose their rights.

Second, they *are* a proprietary or private property that happens to be owned by the public (State and/or City). They have trademarks that identify them to the public, and that the public associates with their product and/or service. You may say that it is hard to confuse a Bagel Shop with a Subway Enterance. But that is not so. Many new subway stops are being built into what would otherwise look like a corner store, just so they can have a place to put elevators to make their lions accessible.

Anyway... It is proper for them to have recognisable service marks, and it is proper for them to protect them from misuse.

Anyway... It is also proper for them to reach an agreement with the Bagel Shop so that they may live long an prosper.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Mar 17 10:48:52 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Thu Mar 17 09:13:10 2005.

Sounds good to me...

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 10:53:59 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Mar 17 10:35:59 2005.

Politically (and THIS trumps all) ... up here among LEGISLATORS, this whole thing is a MAJOR embarassment. After all, new york has cultivated QUITE the "yeah, we got your business right here" image, and this little battle here is making QUITE the bit of headway in "if they're going to crush a mom and pop over a stupid logo, then let them make tennis shoes and earn their fare hike THAT way." I tell ya, the POLITICOS are NOT impressed with this little ditty. Not ONE bit ...

Right, wrong, legal or indifferent, MTA stepped on a Claymore here. :(

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:34:22 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Arrow III MU on Mon Mar 14 16:27:25 2005.

You do not even have to change the colors that much. Look at the store SND's logo's.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:37:00 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Mar 14 12:59:22 2005.

I can't wait until all the OS's, servers, browsers, fonts, etc. can recognize those enclosed alphanumerics characters!

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 17 11:47:13 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:34:22 2005.

You do not even have to change the colors that much. Look at the store SND's logo's.

Or CB2, although in a slightly different typeface and the B running on the Crosstown line.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:49:23 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 15 08:05:16 2005.

Ooh! Buttered Toast!

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Re: Even better one

Posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:58:19 2005, in response to Re: Even better one, posted by Arrow III MU on Mon Mar 14 16:40:44 2005.

Then, when the orange Q was still running; you had a sticker from a rapper known as "Big Noyd" shwoing a yellow Q bullet and "Queensbridge" on a black background with a white line above; just like an MTA sign.

Perhaps once that colored version of the line is retired; then the copyright is suspended?

(64620)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by #7 Flushing on Thu Mar 17 13:51:23 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by #7 Flushing on Wed Mar 16 13:41:48 2005.




Catch all your sporting events here! Wow didn't know the MTA carried cable TV!

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BIE on Thu Mar 17 14:11:26 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by #7 Flushing on Thu Mar 17 13:51:23 2005.

MTA should look into this. Since the N Train is involved, S.B.Fred should be sent to serve the papers.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 17 16:49:57 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 09:33:52 2005.

Fuggedabout everybody-out-and-push, too.:)

I think it's safe to assume there weren't any cows mooing anywhere.:)

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"`E's a bloomin' genius, `e is!" Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by ntrainride on Thu Mar 17 21:04:18 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 17 09:05:25 2005.

"Folks on this side of the puddle will NEVER get it, but it's quite YOUR "Nathan's" :)"

See, it's cracks like that...I read it as you saying "golly, ain't ah a clever sombitch!!?" It sounds like you wish to announce that, of course!, you "get it", but us dimwits will remain clueless. As if the concept of a localized specialized slightly esoteric fast food chain was a terribly complex notion. Gee Whiz.

You're quite full with yourself. And you seem to feel there's a need for you to ej-u-ma-kate most folks you converse with on this board. I can deal with it or ignore it, mostly, except for when your "scorn" for duh Kommenfolk becomes hard to bypass. But here's a flash: you're not as clever as you think you are.

Reply, don't reply. I don't give a sheet.


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Re: ''`E's a bloomin' genius, `e is!'' Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BIE on Thu Mar 17 22:10:56 2005, in response to "`E's a bloomin' genius, `e is!" Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by ntrainride on Thu Mar 17 21:04:18 2005.

Selkirk has more brains in his toe than you have in your head. Call S.B.Fred or Chris R and get a clue on how to be "right" with class.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 18 01:25:27 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Mar 17 16:49:57 2005.

Nope ... no cows loose in the Bronx. Too many restaurants wanting a discount. And as far as get out and push, that's a formidable hill. Anyone trying to push a bus up that icy hill would be under it in an instant. They didn't even TRY. :)

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Re: ''`E's a bloomin' genius, `e is!'' Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Mar 18 01:39:41 2005, in response to "`E's a bloomin' genius, `e is!" Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by ntrainride on Thu Mar 17 21:04:18 2005.

Heh. Dewd ... don't bust a blood vessel. There's only ONE Tubby Isaac's. But then you knew that. :)

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Re: MBTA votes to make the T Free for 3 months

Posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 06:28:51 2005, in response to Re: MBTA votes to make the T Free for 3 months, posted by Allan on Mon Mar 14 15:03:04 2005.

Any official subway maps from before 1964 have passed into the public domain, because they weren't renewed (go here to check). Anything after that (unless it's from before 1989 AND has no copyright notice) is copyrighted by the MTA, and thanks to Disney will remain copyrighted indefinitely.

As for the Subway wallpaper, they have no copyright over it, as long as it's a reproduction of the original public domain map (thanks to Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.).

Anyway, I think what's being talked about here is trademarks; there's no way someone could copyright a letter in a circle and have it stand up in court.

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Re: MTA Demands slice of the action at Brooklyn bagel shop

Posted by Eric B on Fri Mar 18 17:04:56 2005, in response to Re: MBTA votes to make the T Free for 3 months, posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 06:28:51 2005.

The wallpaper map never was an official MTA map. Someone else drew that for their own purposes. (I never even saw it before the restaurant). I don't know when Subway restaurant began; but if it was during or before the period of 1973-6 (which that wallpaper map reflects; with the single "K" service and other things); then it may have just been created by or for Subway itself, and the copyright would be owned by Subway or whoever they leased it from.

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Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while...

Posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 17:26:37 2005, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:US_22_U_turns.jpg

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Re: Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while...

Posted by JohnL on Sat Mar 19 02:20:52 2005, in response to Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while..., posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 17:26:37 2005.

Have you any idea what this means?!

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Re: Even better one

Posted by Metropod on Sat Mar 19 09:36:06 2005, in response to Re: Even better one, posted by Eric B on Thu Mar 17 11:58:19 2005.

copyrights have time lengths

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Re: Even better one

Posted by BIE on Sat Mar 19 09:53:31 2005, in response to Re: Even better one, posted by Metropod on Sat Mar 19 09:36:06 2005.

No they do not.

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Re: Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while...

Posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Mar 19 10:32:46 2005, in response to Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while..., posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 17:26:37 2005.

Those are a series of U-turns on a segment US-22 in Springfield, NJ which is a nightmare to drive because of all the stores and strip malls and heavy traffic. But aside from the 'A' bullet, the colors of the other ones don't match the TA colors.

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Re: Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while...

Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Mar 19 10:35:31 2005, in response to Re: Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while..., posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Mar 19 10:32:46 2005.

And their presentation styles and fonts don't match either; plus, they're not used in a way that would attract paying customers by leveraging recognition of MTA logos, livery or trademarks.

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Length of Copyright

Posted by Alex L. on Sat Mar 19 11:16:30 2005, in response to Re: Even better one, posted by BIE on Sat Mar 19 09:53:31 2005.

Yes it does:

HOW LONG COPYRIGHT PROTECTION ENDURES

Works Originally Created on or after January 1, 1978

A work that is created (fixed in tangible form for the first time) on or after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is ordinarily given a term enduring for the author's life plus an additional 70 years after the author's death. In the case of "a joint work prepared by two or more authors who did not work for hire," the term lasts for 70 years after the last surviving author's death. For works made for hire, and for anonymous and pseudonymous works (unless the author's identity is revealed in Copyright Office records), the duration of copyright will be 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter.


Works Originally Created before January 1, 1978, But Not Published or Registered by That Date

These works have been automatically brought under the statute and are now given federal copyright protection. The duration of copyright in these works will generally be computed in the same way as for works created on or after January 1, 1978: the life-plus-70 or 95/120-year terms will apply to them as well. The law provides that in no case will the term of copyright for works in this category expire before December 31, 2002, and for works published on or before December 31, 2002, the term of copyright will not expire before December 31, 2047.


Works Originally Created and Published or Registered before January 1, 1978

Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the date a work was published with a copyright notice or on the date of registration if the work was registered in unpublished form. In either case, the copyright endured for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the copyright was eligible for renewal. The Copyright Act of 1976 extended the renewal term from 28 to 47 years for copyrights that were subsisting on January 1, 1978, or for pre-1978 copyrights restored under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), making these works eligible for a total term of protection of 75 years. Public Law 105-298, enacted on October 27, 1998, further extended the renewal term of copyrights still subsisting on that date by an additional 20 years, providing for a renewal term of 67 years and a total term of protection of 95 years.

Public Law 102-307, enacted on June 26, 1992, amended the 1976 Copyright Act to provide for automatic renewal of the term of copyrights secured between January 1, 1964, and December 31, 1977. Although the renewal term is automatically provided, the Copyright Office does not issue a renewal certificate for these works unless a renewal application and fee are received and registered in the Copyright Office.

Public Law 102-307 makes renewal registration optional. Thus, filing for renewal registration is no longer required in order to extend the original 28-year copyright term to the full 95 years. However, some benefits accrue from making a renewal registration during the 28th year of the original term.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc

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Re: Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while...

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 19 11:35:39 2005, in response to Yeah, well the New Jersey Department of Transportation has been doing it for a while..., posted by SPUI on Fri Mar 18 17:26:37 2005.

You provide an excellent example as to why trademark law and court cases are very narrow. If you just slightly change the design, you are not infringing. That's why I doubt the bagel shop is infringing. Unfortunately, they probably can't afford a good lawyer.



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Re: Length of Copyright

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 19 11:41:22 2005, in response to Length of Copyright, posted by Alex L. on Sat Mar 19 11:16:30 2005.

But what if it is not a copyright, but rather a registered trademark.

Is that different?

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Re: Length of Copyright

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 19 14:57:31 2005, in response to Re: Length of Copyright, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 19 11:41:22 2005.

"Is that different?"

Clearly. I believe you can keep a trademark as long as you actively use it. I can't cite law, but Coca-Cola's trademark isn't expiring any time soon.

Or even longer, you don't see anyone starting a paper called "The New York Times" on the grounds that after 150 years the trademark has expired.






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Re: Length of Copyright

Posted by Alex L. on Sat Mar 19 19:50:35 2005, in response to Re: Length of Copyright, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Mar 19 11:41:22 2005.

How long does a trademark registration last?

For a trademark registration to remain valid, an Affidavit of Use ("Section 8 Affidavit") must be filed: (1) between the fifth and sixth year following registration, and (2) within the year before the end of every ten-year period after the date of registration.  The registrant may file the affidavit within a grace period of six months after the end of the sixth or tenth year, with payment of an additional fee.

The registrant must also file a §9 renewal application within the year before the expiration date of a registration, or within a grace period of six months after the expiration date, with payment of an additional fee.

Assuming that an affidavit of use is timely filed, registrations granted PRIOR to November 16, 1989 have a 20-year term, and registrations granted on or after November 16, 1989 have a 10-year term.

This is also true for the renewal periods; renewals granted PRIOR to November 16, 1989 have a 20-year term, and renewals granted on or after November 16, 1989 have a 10-year term.


http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm#Application015

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Metropod on Tue Mar 22 22:51:15 2005, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Mar 15 10:46:22 2005.


this might make or break the brothers case

"The fair use doctrine refers to an aspect of U.S. copyright law that provides for the licit, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under certain, specifiable conditions. The term "fair use" is unique to the United States; a similar principle, fair dealing, exists in some other common law jurisdictions.

Fair use makes copyrighted work available to the public as raw material without the need for permission or clearance, so long as such free usage serves the purpose of copyright law, which the U.S. Constitution defines as the promotion of "the Progress of Science and useful Arts" (I.1.8), better than the legal enforcement of claims of infringement. The doctrine hereby attempts to balance the interests of individual copyright holders with the social or cultural benefits that follow from the creation and distribution of derivative works. Insofar as this doctrine protects forms of expression that might otherwise be enjoined as copyright infringing, it has been related to First Amendment free speech protections in the U.S. Constitution."



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 13 11:53:26 2007, in response to MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by heypaul on Mon Mar 14 06:09:42 2005.

Will history repeat itself?



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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 13 11:56:28 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 13 11:53:26 2007.

Hahaha, Oh No!!!!

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:08:52 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon Aug 13 11:53:26 2007.


Since we all know the MTA monitors this site, I'd say yup.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by R30A on Mon Aug 13 12:10:32 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:08:52 2007.

the MTA needs to be sued for bringing frivilous law suits.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Aug 13 12:12:45 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:08:52 2007.

Who knows? Maybe the owners paid the MOBSTERS MTA their cut.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:23:15 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by R30A on Mon Aug 13 12:10:32 2007.


It's not frivilous. The MTA does technically own the rights to these symbols and has every right to defend it. But it's really bad press, taking on a little guy's store for just using a letter in a colored circle.

Incidentally, the owner of this store could prevent any legal action by changing the color the N circle is in. If you ever notice non-MTA advertisements which use these symbols, you'll notice that it's usually a letter/color combo which does not exist in the subway system (like an oragne C or a purple 2).

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 13 15:00:15 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:23:15 2007.

Agreed.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by BIE on Mon Aug 13 15:08:14 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Allan on Mon Mar 14 09:52:22 2005.

This kind of shit is why we need copyright reform.

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by JohnL on Mon Aug 13 15:26:21 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 13 12:23:15 2007.

The problem is that if the MTA doesn’t defend its intellectual property, it loses it.

That said, the lawyers could come to a resonable accommodation, with a license to use the trademarked symbol being available for a sum which won’t put the shop out of business.

(475972)

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 13 15:31:38 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by JohnL on Mon Aug 13 15:26:21 2007.

True. And if some businessperson can trample MTA's rights today, why not trample yours tomorrow?

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Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 13 15:32:34 2007, in response to Re: MTA Demands Slice of the Action at Brooklyn Bagel Shop or Else, posted by BIE on Mon Aug 13 15:08:14 2007.

No, it's an example of why copyrights are good.

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