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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Apr 4 18:25:29 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 18:43:59 2012.

And where are your stats that show that people that currently drive from their driveway to their work's parking lot, will abandon that to take a bus to a train station to wait for a train to take them to another train station to a bus that will bring them to work? And that of course assuming we have buses at all the stations that go to all the hundreds of spots people can work on Long Island.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Orion in Chains on Wed Apr 4 20:08:33 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 4 13:09:44 2012.

I see trains run over it at 40 mph everyday. The track was replaced
in 2010, so I don't see the logic of crawling at 20 between Fresh Pond and LIC

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Apr 4 22:27:14 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 4 13:09:44 2012.

"The condition of the track between the junction of the Bushwick Branch and LIC itself is low, and trains (in my experience) don't top 20 MPH over it."

The few times I took the train through there it did seem to mosie on through at rather a pedestrian pace.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...


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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Apr 4 22:33:10 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Apr 4 10:38:57 2012.

"It is time for LIRR to spend an outrageous sum , then cost over runs , for a low profile diesel, low profile multi-level coaches with extremely reclined seating to fit through the 63Rd St. tunnels.

Problem solved, end of topic!"


Then they could invest in some genetic engineering of smaller, more compact passengers to fit the smaller coaches.



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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Apr 4 22:33:39 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 4 13:09:44 2012.

is that why they go slow? I figured it was to avoid problems with people crossing the tracks. Going slower makes the difference between having a 12-9 or not.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 5 00:01:46 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Avid Reader on Wed Apr 4 10:38:57 2012.

Don't think it's possible to make any kind of multilevel car with a maximum height of 12' 8" that'd be comfortable to ride in.

$7 billion for ESA is already an "outrageous sum", especially for a project that was supposed to be $3 billion to begin with (and that was way too much in and of itself).


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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 5 01:34:20 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Apr 4 09:37:00 2012.

Hmmm... First, I wasn't really talking about current HPA users in the last post, where I said provide scoots from Jamaica to GCT for diesel people.

But since you mentioned them, it means you will be forcing upon them something that they didn't have to do. Those people didn't ride to NYP. Instead of sitting down except for the last two stops (HPA to GCT), they will have to stand from Jamaica. They may be small in numbers but that won't be popular.

By the time ESA opens, Brooklyn will likely be a scoot service. Maybe they can run the electric trains from less crowded branches to function as Jamaica-GCT (or NYP) scoots as well.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 5 01:43:17 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 5 01:34:20 2012.

hopefully,this will be the first stage of a NYCT assumption of the city portion Atlantic Branch..

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 5 06:52:53 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Apr 5 01:34:20 2012.

They wouldn't have to stand any more than they do on current Penn Station trains when going to GCT. As for Flatbush, it will become much less used, but there will still be a need for it. People going to Lower Manhattan will probably still chose the Brooklyn line, although yes, it will be less used than now.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 5 06:56:43 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by J trainloco on Mon Apr 2 23:45:18 2012.

Again, there will be some. FIRST, CURRENTLY there are only about 2 or 3 full trainsets of HPA people if you put them all together that NOW use the service. That number will only get smaller with GCA. I didn't say it will be completely zero. Second, they can still go to LIC. Third, many of those people already take Penn Station trains, it's a short walk up to the "west 42nd St area" from there that they don't even need to use the subway AT ALL. Fourth, it's only one subway station away from Penn if they do. Fifth, see point one.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 5 06:59:40 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Wed Apr 4 17:08:58 2012.

You take the LIRR because you have to, not because you like it.

Correct. A foamer would take it any time he can. I HATE taking the LIRR to the city, and avoid it most of the time when possible. I never said it wasn't a necessary evil for plenty of people.

The nonsense you are giving me are Eisenhower-era cliches with no foundation.


LOL!!! You are hysterical.
In any event, you haven't put forth one piece of solid data or information to support anything you have stated either, other than hurling insult after insult. It's comical.

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Apr 5 08:06:39 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 2 21:50:33 2012.

Fine, but then why was the rest of the line so badly shortchanged? Not even cheap wooden platforms like at Rego Park near the end of the Rockaway line era.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 08:59:04 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 5 00:01:46 2012.

Comfort?
Comfort?
LIRR riders don't need no stinking comfort!

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 09:04:55 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Apr 4 22:33:10 2012.

It's great when simple BRAIN STORMING can solve multi-billion dollar problems.

link


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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 09:05:53 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 09:04:55 2012.

Try again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ovq79_VEc

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 09:06:09 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Avid Reader on Thu Apr 5 09:04:55 2012.

Try again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ovq79_VEc

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Apr 5 10:16:23 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by Mitch45 on Thu Apr 5 08:06:39 2012.

Lol. Because even at the busiest station...Fresh pond....5 passengers a day was a good day?

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 5 12:46:26 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Apr 4 13:44:48 2012.

There's no real need for it, with the M train nearby.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by tunnelrat on Thu Apr 5 12:54:27 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 5 01:43:17 2012.

never gonna happen.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Apr 5 14:19:14 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 5 12:46:26 2012.

The M is a ways away from there. In any event.....the old Glendale station was much closer to LIRR yard than the old Fresh Pond station.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 5 15:56:52 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 5 01:43:17 2012.

With a separate platform near Johnson Avenue siding, NYCT fare-control can be set up, but I think it physically impossible to saw it off the LIRR and append to the "B" Division, unless you do something with the Rockaway Line at Woodhaven.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 5 16:21:17 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Apr 4 18:25:29 2012.

You can ask that of Helena Williams, Brookhaven Town, & Suffolk County. They are the ones who want this service. I don't live in Long Island anymore.

Evidently you (conveniently) forgot the makeshift shuttles that were set up a few years ago for south shore shuttles running east of Speonk when a county road closed. They were quite popular, ridership dropped off when the road re-opened, but they were criticized for being too hasty and not extending service to Mastic for connecting with more buses. They ran a deficit of $1M per year, which is about the same as the Greenport Scoot, but performed a lot better.

If you want any political support for east end service, you better come up with non-Manhattan markets, because that is has already cost you the payroll tax, and more debt financing, which affects the entire MTA.

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Thu Apr 5 18:03:30 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Apr 5 10:16:23 2012.

About as many as Mattatuck

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 5 20:29:10 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 5 16:21:17 2012.

You can ask that of Helena Williams, Brookhaven Town, & Suffolk County. They are the ones who want this service. I don't live in Long Island anymore.


Let's see the stats. Your claim, let's see it.

Evidently you (conveniently) forgot the makeshift shuttles that were set up a few years ago for south shore shuttles running east of Speonk when a county road closed. They were quite popular, ridership dropped off when the road re-opened

Of course, as when the road reopened, that was much more convenient, so no surprise ridership dropped off when the road reopened. So we have to close roads to get people to do this? And none of that ran in Brookhaven town.

They ran a deficit of $1M per year, which is about the same as the Greenport Scoot, but performed a lot better.


Oh, you mean till ridership dropped off because the more convenient road reopened.

If you want any political support for east end service, you better come up with non-Manhattan markets, because that is has already cost you the payroll tax, and more debt financing, which affects the entire MTA.

I don't have to come up with anything, as I would never use it. Until there are north south lines, there isn't a prayer of the LIRR ever not being mainly a railroad that runs east west with the city in mind.




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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 5 20:39:42 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 3 16:57:30 2012.

You are in no position to judge HPA will be useless after ESA.

Oh, you mean like your position to judge it wouldn't? And you call me a "foamer" for being realistic about it's less viability at that point? It's foamers that have railroad fantasies like people giving up their more convenient cars on intra island travel, and unrealistic ideas on station use. This is the first time I ever heard anyone call someone a foamer or railfan fanatic for saying certain types of services are unrealsitic or for suggesting stations will close. LOL.

After coming up with ridiculous excuses like the cost of TVM's (they can removed in a day),


???????????????????????????????????????

Where have I even mentioned TVM's, much less talked about their cost?

????????????????????????????????

then can't answer about diesel train patrons changing onto crowded ESA trains at Jamaica, you have no arguments left.

Didn't answer? I said the ESA trains will be no more crowded than Penn Station trains, and no one has a problem with them, so why would GC trains be so much of a problem?

I am afraid it's you with no arguments left when you have to hurl insults, make up things I never even mentioned (like TVM's), and just have a totally nasty tone throughout the whole thread.



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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 5 21:05:05 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by tunnelrat on Thu Apr 5 12:54:27 2012.

never say never...

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:30:24 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by J trainloco on Sat Mar 31 19:06:26 2012.

How about in Richmond Hill?

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:41:04 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 19:55:14 2012.

(Like)

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Re: Sunnyside Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:54:46 2012, in response to Re: Sunnyside Re: Long Island City..., posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 2 01:00:37 2012.

That'd be great to have a station in that area if they can find a way to connect it with QBP and QNS PLZ

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:58:20 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 2 21:01:07 2012.

Might as well just buy boats and paint the word "Tunnel" on the side of all of them at this point

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:09:24 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 3 17:07:49 2012.

And what do they get from keeping HPA open? A station that they've gotta keep maintaining when most of its ridership base has been switched over to ESA. I'm not big on closing stations, but even with the development going on in LIC/Greenpoint, the immediate area around HPA is swallowed up by rail/road infrastructure with limited space remaining for development. There are only 3 good sized parcels that could be converted to office/residential space. I'm 50/50 on shutting it down. If those sections are turned into offices then I'd say keep it open.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:12:16 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Apr 1 17:02:50 2012.

How about the factor that it eliminates the added monthly cost of taking the subway? Money speaks too ya know. Again, I'm 50/50 on it

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:14:46 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 17:40:40 2012.

Agreed, if I'm on the east side already, I'll generally take the 7 train to Woodside (If I lived on any line but the PW, I'd take the 7 to HPA and connect there if the schedule was right)

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:20:22 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Apr 2 22:01:44 2012.

Agreed 110%. Hicksville is another place that could really be a place for redevelopment, even if the LIE and NSP are right up the road. Mineola also has the added perk of being the county seat. And FWIW, Great Neck sees a good amount of reverse peak riders and Hempstead could be another example of a White Plains type location. Now if only we could get the central rebuilt, the area around NCC would be ripe for this type of development.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:20:56 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Apr 2 21:02:28 2012.

Yeah, I've also seen a lot of chamis get on the 3-something to Patchogue

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:27:48 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Apr 2 21:06:34 2012.

I'm more concerned with the development going on in the area. While I agree that most east side riders will have switched to ESA, the station may discover a newly found meaning in service any office buildings that have sprung up in the area. Maybe not necessarily 6 years from now, but perhaps 10 years.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:29:17 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 20:12:55 2012.

Honestly, it's pretty easy to gauge it.

Via ESA
-Less cost
-Easier connection

Via HPA
-Faster (supposedly)

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:30:33 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 18:50:07 2012.

And what's the expected travel time Jam-GCT via ESA?

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:33:49 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Apr 4 18:16:28 2012.

You're far from a foamer Chris, I know that personally, but at the same time you are far from being able to see the future. Some people will certainly value the opportunity to have a 15 minutes of peace on the ride between HPA and Jam more so than the cost savings of riding ESA, and vice versa. I tend to agree with you that most people will go to ESA, but the truth is that none of us really know and Joe V is 100% right in that regard.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:40:37 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by J trainloco on Mon Apr 2 23:45:18 2012.

Please, W42nd St = Penn Station

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:44:48 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 3 17:16:13 2012.

Enough with calling each other foamers. Neither is a foamer, both of you guys are making very valid points.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:52:01 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Mar 31 19:56:03 2012.

LIC is pretty much oceanfront (riverfront) property, which I'm betting will go almost exclusively to the residential developers. Offices will be tucked further back, closer to HPA. While it is only half a mile from LIC to HPA, eliminating a station where offices can be developed is short sighted and it's something we criticize all the time when we talk about places like the Nassau Hub. Still, if it comes down to HPA vs Lower Montauk, I say goodbye HPA!

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:54:26 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 17:46:36 2012.

The trains will probably be empty anyway even with HPA there

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 04:55:55 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 18:38:54 2012.

The trains will already be empty regardless of whether or not HPA is closed. Reopening the Lower Montauk stations may cost money, but it brings service to an area that has nothing right now. That's called investing

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 05:44:31 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 3 10:53:09 2012.

I would probably just say reopen them all at the same locations, save for Penny Bridge.
Richmond Hill: even though it's the easiest to reopen is probably the most useless
Glendale: Residential area, just makes sense
Fresh Pond: Excellent location
Haberman: Has both residential and industrial areas so you have inbound and outbound potential, and it's still a short walk to UPS

I think the problem everyone is having is seeing this as strictly a problem of getting people from those areas into Manhattan. What about people going to those areas? What about reverse commuters? What about people riding within the area (Richmond Hill/Glendale) to Maspeth or LIC? If it were to be done as light rail I'd probably suggest a couple of in between stations as well

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Re: Long Island City...

Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 6 07:09:19 2012, in response to Re: Long Island City..., posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:30:24 2012.

In that area it's an elevated flanked on either side by streets. It could be extended over either street.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 6 07:16:37 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 2 19:51:33 2012.

With all these billions floating around,we could have had a Union Station already,with both the Hoboken Division and Atlantic Avenue Branch going to Manhattan.

1. LIRR already had an East River tunnel at 63rd street.
2. NJT sure didn't seem like they were trying to build a new Lower Manhattan tunnel.
3. Where were you planning on putting this?

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 6 07:19:48 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 2 20:17:56 2012.

It's thanks to NYC that there aren't any rail bridges going into Manhattan after all; their big anti-steam ordinance that didn't help anything anyhow once gasoline and diesel power started to dominate.

How do Metro-North and Amtrak's Empire service access NYC then?

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 6 07:21:15 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 03:58:20 2012.

Why? They don't even use the car float operations they've already set up.

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Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City...

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Apr 6 08:04:47 2012, in response to Re: Glendale Re: Long Island City..., posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 5 01:43:17 2012.

HELL NO! Downtown Brooklyn is becoming more and more of a destination, why take the LIRR out of there? It's going to create a two seat ride, add 20-30 minutes to the commute for anyone going to Brooklyn, and force them to tack on a subway fare to their expenses. Likewise for the reverse peak riders.

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