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Re: 3rd Avenue El

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 20 16:55:20 2008, in response to Re: Design your own IND Re: G Train to be cut back to Court Square permanently, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 20 11:52:12 2008.

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That is all true, however:

We were dealing with completely different attitudes when the 3rd avenue El was torn down in 1955 in Manhattan, and even to some degree in 1973-'74 when the Bronx portion was torn down.

If anything, given enviormental concerns as well as traffic congestion in Manhattan that is only going to get worse even if congestion pricing takes effect over the next 30 years or so, I would now be exploring ways to build a new, four-track, mostly two-level Third Avenue El that would be built to BMT/IND standards with locals on the lower level and express trains on the upper level (and would be built in addition to the SAS). This El I would do similar to the SAS as far as having stations that are three blocks long (possibly allowing in fact for 12 car trains instead of the customary 10), with express trains actually starting in perhaps a lower level of the SAS station at Hanover Square or even the new South Ferry 1 station and locals after the express El trains leave the SAS tunnel, which I would likely have around Chatam Square or so, with perhaps Canal Street/The Bowery the start point for local trains on this new 3rd Avenue El. The rest of the stops I would have something like this:

Houston Street/Bowery (Local, transfer to the current J/M/Z tains via MetroCard or in system depending on distance, north exit at Houston)
St. Marks Place (Local, MetroCard transfer to the 6/R/W, north exit at St. Marks Place)
14th Street (Express stop, direct transfer to the L/SAS, MetroCard transfer to the 4/5/6/L/N/R/W at Union Square via north exit at 14th street, with also a south exit at 12th street)
23rd Street (Local, exits at 20th and 23rd)
34th Street (Local, exits at 31st and 34th)
42nd Street (Express, transfer via north exit at 42nd to the 4/5/6/7/S/SAS, also a south exit at 39th street)
53rd Street (Express, transfer via north exit at 53rd street to the 6/E/V/SAS, also a south exit at 50th street)
60th-63rd Street (Express, transfer via south exit at 60th street to the 4/5/6/N/R/W, transfer via north exit at 63rd street to the F/Q)
72nd Street (Local, south exit at 69th street for Hunter College, north exit at 72nd street)
86th street (Local, south exit at 83rd street, north exit at 86th street, MetroCard tranfers to the 4/5/6/SAS)
96th Street (Local, exits at 93rd and 96th streets)
106th Street (Local, exits at 103rd and 106th streets)
116th Street (Local, exits at 113th and 116th streets)
125th Street (Express, south exit at 122nd street, north exit at 125th street with a MetroCard transfer to the 4/5/6/SAS).

From there, the 3rd Avenue El would continue to the Bronx, joined by a Bronx branch of the SAS to run the old route of the Bronx part of the 3rd avenue El.

Of course, there would be a TON of opposition to it, but given the enviormental concerns caused by automobiles in particular, if you can educate people into the long-term benefits of such a line, I think in a few years there actually would be a chance of getting this through, especially given the population in New York is likely going to continue to expand over the next 20 years or so to mind-boggling levels that might make such an additional line necessary anyway.

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