|
|
| Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail (768794) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 4 of 12 |
||
|
| (769735) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:07:05 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:02:58 2009. Port Jefferson has a rather large parking lot, one very large for a diesel only station.Port Jeff's lot is usually full the times I have been there. Isn't it also a lot you need a permit for? |
|
|
| (769736) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:08:33 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:07:05 2009. Not sure about the one near the yard. The front one by the station house, yes, I believe it's permit only. |
|
|
| (769737) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:10:04 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Apr 13 10:47:15 2009. Truthfully, the MTA's plans for the Port Jeff line were half baked. Anything short of electrifying all the way to Port Jeff itself would be useless. None of the most recently scrapped plans went all the way to Port Jeff. Anything short of that would just make the remaining diesel only stations ghost towns, and make an "artificially" busy station, ala Ronkonkoma, to whatever station electrification would have ended at. There were plans to end it at Smithtown, Kings Park, or Northport on several differing proposals, all falling short. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (769738) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:10:43 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 11:54:45 2009. You never know, if gas ever spikes again ... Besides, long term issues aren't really definable. Traffic in 20 years might make restoration far more politically doable then. |
|
|
| (769739) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Apr 13 11:13:00 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:10:04 2009. There were plans to end it at Smithtown, Kings Park, or Northport on several differing proposals, all falling short.Yes, that was the folly. The yard problem was easily solved, but they had to go all the way, instead of creating a KO effect, and even worse, one that leaves an intrinsically busy station (i.e., without even counting those driving more than 10 minutes) like Stony Brook still beyond the third rail. |
|
|
| (769740) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:13:02 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 13:08:11 2009. Port Jefferson isn't the busiest station on the line. Stony Brook is, and the college is part of the reason why. Electrification which stops short of Stony Brook is a waste. And as long as you're electrifying to Stony Brook, you might as well finish the job and do it to PJ. |
|
|
| (769741) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:16:40 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Hart Bus on Mon Apr 13 10:31:16 2009. "One it would destroy the residential nature of the community"A yard the size that was proposed would not destroy anything. I hear that kind of argument over and over in lots of contexts and it it's always silly. I could understand concern about having a bunch of diesels idling all night and having a large diesel fueling operation. But a relatively modest electric yard wrecking a community? It's laughable. "Two was if this yard, which would be an easy "put in" for Huntington trains, what is the incentive to electify to PJ?" That's also silly. Electrification to Port Jeff will occur if and when the railroad sees demand and funding, not where a yard is located. It's possible that Port Jeff would function somewhat like Port Waahington: there would be heavy service to Huntington, and some subset of the schedule would continue east. All you acomplish with these arguments is to help stop LIRR from doing anything. Then of course you can conveniently blame the railroad instead of yourself or your neighbors. Frankly, I think you don't want any improvements at all to the line, but you pick your advocacy carefully so it looks like you support electrification, when in reaity, you don't want anything at all. Sort of like the wolf wearing sheep's clothing. |
|
|
| (769742) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:18:18 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 15:29:08 2009. The Ronkonkoma line is overtaxed as it is, and can't really expand service due to the single track segments (another short sighted problem not rectified in 1987). If LI continues to expand eastward (and it will as affluent folks flee the urbanizing segments of Nassau) then the LIRR must consider electrification expansions east, to Port Jefferson on the North Shore and to Sayville/Patchouge on the South Shore. Making the main line MORE convenient is not really an answer. The issues with the Ronkonkoma line are so bad that the LIRR can't run 30 minute bidirectional off-peak service on it once ESA opens, like they can on the Babylon. It can't handle any more traffic. |
|
|
| (769744) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:22:22 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:22:40 2009. We're not talking about stealing riders back, we're talking about absorbing new ones. Electrification to Ronkonkoma fundamentally changed the communities that line directly served. Populations exploded. This line can't handle any more. Port Jefferson electrification must be re-considered, and full electrification, with a yard in Port Jefferson itself. |
|
|
| (769746) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:23:54 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:10:04 2009. "Anything short of that would just make the remaining diesel only stations ghost towns, and make an "artificially" busy station, ala Ronkonkoma"Wrong. Currently some diesel trains stop at Huntington or Hicksville and transfer passengers to the electric service. Extending electrification would improve service and reduce operating costs. The electric trains would continue further east (the "one seat" ride to Penn) and the same diesel equipment could make more frequent trips from Port Jeff to the new transfer station at the last electrified station (wherever that might be). It would have a shorter route. Ridership would be higher at all stations and commuters who now drive might be persuaded to try the railroad. Insisting on "all or nothing" usually leads to nothing. |
|
|
| (769747) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:25:46 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:22:22 2009. If funding were available that would be cool. If not, see here |
|
|
| (769748) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:26:37 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 12:36:53 2009. Excellent point. The Harlem between Valhalla and Brewster is a good reference to what the Port Jefferson could become with some third rail and a better schedule. IIRC, the last two upper Harlem shuttles of the day end in Dover Plains, not Wassaic. Which makes sense since that's the last bastion of actual civilization the line serves. |
|
|
| (769749) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:28:46 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:08:33 2009. Yeah, the one near the yard may be public.The one near the station itself is by permit. That's a problem with many LIRR stations. Only a very small few are actually owned by the LIRR. Bellport, Mattituck, and Holtsville were/are LIRR owned, but they are the vast minority. Most are owned and controlled by the various municipalities and villages. |
|
|
| (769750) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:30:34 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:29:34 2009. IIRC, the last freight customer above Dover Plains closed up shop in the late 80's, and whatever it was was located on the site now occupied by the rail yard, which is technically in Amenia, not Wassaic. After Conrail was broken up, I believe the section was ceeded back to the MTA and the idea of service restoration began. |
|
|
| (769751) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:33:02 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 23:03:09 2009. Late 1980's. It was technically "disused" after then, until restoration work began in 1997 for the service re-extension to the new Wassaic (really Amenia) terminal. |
|
|
| (769752) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:36:52 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 15:25:50 2009. Perhaps M-S is poor because the service is, and better LIRR service would bring more affluence into the area. One thing is for certain, M-S doesn't deserve Hamptons-level service. I agree, some parts of eastern LI look like Appalachia, lacking the banjo. |
|
|
| (769753) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:39:34 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:33:02 2009. Thank you. |
|
|
| (769754) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:40:43 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 22:36:23 2009. The Upper Harlem is fairly suburbanized (if not at Ronkonkoma levels), at least in Westchester Cty. It levels off north of Katonah. I have no doubt that towns like Smithtown and King's Park would grow much more suburban if the PJ line were electrified. The Upper Harlem really changes nature in Brewster, where the electrification ends. It's almost rural in diesel country, with farms, stables and the occasional "town". |
|
|
| (769755) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:43:31 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 23:10:52 2009. The problem with electrification to Yaphank is that it doesn't make it any more desirable than Ronkonkoma, since the single track will limit service dramatically (unless a passing siding is introduced). It also doesn't address the problem of trains on this one line being overcrowded with people. Spreading out the demand on the one line still means trains enter Hicksville crush loaded. |
|
|
| (769756) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:46:20 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:10:04 2009. Ronkonkoma is an odd town. I swear the parking lots are larger than the town itself. In diesel times, it must've been an insignificant station. |
|
|
| (769757) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:47:24 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:18:18 2009. Making the main line MORE convenient is not really an answer.Something has GOT to be done with the Ronkonkoma problem, and the first step is yes, finally breaking that artificial barrier they created by having unusable service east of Ronkonkoma. That act has totally squashed the demand at stations like Yaphank and Meford where demand DOES exist. Something has got to give there. I always said they should at leas have Patchogue to Speonk-like service between Ronkonkoma and Riverhead, that would be a start, but electrification to Yaphank, or the border of Manorville is something that really NEEDS to be done to even begin to rectify the Ronkonkoma problem. And the people that left the PJ line and the Montauk line to use the Ronkonkoma line will not be easily shifted back, especially in the case of the PJ line. The best electrification can do to the PJ line, besides eliminating the two seat ride is making the ride about 10 minutes faster. That is not going to sway the people back from using the Ronkonkoma branch, which is straight, and much faster. People would much rather spend an extra 15 minutes to a 1/2 hour driving in their private cars to the Ronkonkoma station (or Yaphank when it's electrified) than spend an extra 1/2 hour on the train. But that being said, after electrification to Yaphank, or truly, even Riverhead (ala a Wassaic style expansion which also is a pretty sparse area), the next step would be to revist the PJ line, and perhaps after that onward to Patchogue. Truthfully, I think the Montauk Branch electrification would need to go to Mastic-Shirley, which is technically the suburbanization line. Patchougue is the logical choice, but there's no room for a yard. Sayville is too short to stop (it would be the equivilent of making Stony Brook the end of electrification on the PJ line), and all making the end at Sayville would be to bring unmerciful traffic to Lakeland Ave. Sayville isn't the place. Bellport is not large enough, an while the space is there, it would be a ridiculous place to terminate trains.....Speonk is overkill, and too far. Mastic Shirley makes sense. |
|
|
| (769758) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:48:11 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Mon Apr 13 11:13:00 2009. The major issue is that any electrification HAS to run to the big station on the line, which is Stony Brook. It makes no sense ending electrification here and running diesel shuttles for ONE STOP. You might as well go all the way. |
|
|
| (769759) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:50:07 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:43:31 2009. "The problem with electrification to Yaphank is that it doesn't make it any more desirable than Ronkonkoma, since the single track will limit service dramatically (unless a passing siding is introduced)."Another option is for LIRR to consider whether double-tracking should be extended beyond Huntington. I do not assume that an electrification project means ONLY third rail installation. It means electrification plus whatever track configuration changes (sidings or double track) needed to effectively use the electrification. |
|
|
| (769760) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:51:15 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 23:45:55 2009. Electrification to Riverhead would be a waste, that's a LOOOOONG stretch between it and Yaphank with no stations and little patronage. Riverhead is the crotch of LI, literally and figuratively. |
|
|
| (769762) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:53:10 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by trainsarefun on Sun Apr 12 22:43:42 2009. And without significant infrastructure improvements on LI, it won't mean more service to Manhattan, just a sapping away from Flatbush Ave and NY Penn service. |
|
|
| (769764) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:57:03 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Apr 12 23:25:18 2009. I could create a list of NJ projects which have been ignored or downplayed almost as long: MOM, West Trenton, Northern Branch, Cape May, Suzie-Q, RVL to Phillipsburg, etc. And now THE TUNNEL will sap any remaining hope of these projects being completed, in a useful form (the Suzie-Q light rail to Hackensack idea now being floated makes me ill). |
|
|
| (769767) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:00:59 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:22:22 2009. We're not talking about stealing riders back, we're talking about absorbing new ones.No we aren't. There isn't some huge increase in LIRR ridership because of the electrification. Many of those people were already using the LIRR, on the other lines. Electrification to Ronkonkoma fundamentally changed the communities that line directly served. Populations exploded. It didn't change them at all. The STATIONS exploded, NOT the populations of the communities. All those communities were already completely developed when electrification came, they were by the 60's and 70's already. Ronkonkoma the community lools no different than it did pre-1987. In fact, the only thing that looks different is the location immediately around the station area itself. In fact, the area around the station GOT WORSE. Empty stores, and unused shopping centers across from the station. It actually parasited the location, as no one wanted to come there unless you have to use the station, as there's no place to park to patronize those formerly busy stores. Before it was a zoo, the commuters would actually patronize those stores...now commuters want to get in and out of that horror as fast as they can, and never patronize any of the stores there, as their car is probably parked about "2 miles" away. The only stores that do good are the tenants of the station house itself. Ronkonkoma the community does NOT warrant the mayhem station it has, and the community has not changed at all since 1987. It was built as a summer bungalow community, at some time in the 60's became a year round location, but still is a shacky bungalow type of community it always was. Brentwood has changed demographically to become more and more Hispanic, as well as Central Islip, but that has NOTHING to do with the railroad electrification. That trend began before electrification. There was no development there post1987, they were built up by the 60's or 70's already. Wyandanch is the same crappy neighborhood it was before electrification. Nothing has changed. Deer Park is the same suburban sprawl area it's always been. Nothing has changed in Deer Park because of the electrification. it's population has not "exploded", it was completely developed before the electrification already. Farmingville....the same. Nothing's changed. |
|
|
| (769768) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:03:40 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 11:47:24 2009. I agree, demand is too centralized at Ronkonkoma, but adding electric capacity at Medford/Yaphank only means moving the point where people get on the same train, which will still arrive in Hicksville crush loaded. The answer lies in providing an alternative which bypasses the Ronkonkoma line altogether, and that means electrifying the north and south shore lines. Sayville has the room for a station. Patchouge is the logical terminal, but as you know, it's not possible to fit a real terminal, with the necessary parking facilities. Saville has a MOW facility on the west side of the current station, ideal for such a setup. I'm sure Sayville residents will bitch, though. |
|
|
| (769769) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:07:59 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:00:59 2009. I was looking at census reports from places like Deer Park and Brentwood a few months ago, and there was a definite and drastic increase in population between 1980 and 2000. I can't say for certain if said increase was out of proportion with other Suffolk County towns served by other diesel LIRR lines, but it was tangible. Farmingdale's population increased almost 60% in that time period. |
|
|
| (769770) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:08:26 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:23:54 2009. Wrong. Currently some diesel trains stop at Huntington or Hicksville and transfer passengers to the electric service.Huh? What does that have to do with anything I posted. You misunderstood my post. Extending electrification would improve service and reduce operating costs. The electric trains would continue further east (the "one seat" ride to Penn) and the same diesel equipment could make more frequent trips from Port Jeff to the new transfer station at the last electrified station (wherever that might be). It would have a shorter route. Ridership would be higher at all stations and commuters who now drive might be persuaded to try the railroad. I never said any of that wasn't true. That is all true. I didn't say they SHOULD NOT stop short of electrifying partly. I said that the remainder of the line would become less used, and yes, "ghost towny", as the closer it gets to the terminal, the more people will instead drive to the "last electrified" station instead of using their home station. If I lived in St James, and electrification ended in Smithtown, and that's where the one seat ride was, I would drive the short distance to Smithtown. And the same can be said of Stony Brook, or any of the stations east of there. I mean, currently the same thing happens, except they drive ALL THE WAY to Ronkonkoma! Don't underestimate people's allure of the "one seat ride". People rather spend the extra 15 minutes driving in their own car, than the exctra 15-20 minutes on the train just to switch. Ronkonkoma already proved that, as it canniblilized much of the Port Jeff line and the Montauk line too. Ronkonkoma is living proof of this phenomena. |
|
|
| (769771) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:12:03 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:30:34 2009. Correct. it was only about a 8-10 year gap in service.The current Wassaic station is not at the site of the original Wassaic passenger station. The current station is in a good spot, highly conveninent to Route 22. Amenia also had a station prior to abandonment, but the service does stop short of the old Amenia location too. |
|
|
| (769773) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:14:42 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 11:16:40 2009. That's also silly. Electrification to Port Jeff will occur if and when the railroad sees demand and funding, not where a yard is located.That is incorrect. That is not at all what the President of the LIRR (now former) said when I was at a seminar on the topic. He said in NO uncertain terms that the reason electrification plans were scrapped were COMPLETELY because of NIMBYism with respect to the location of the yard. It has nothing to do with demand or funding. |
|
|
| (769775) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:16:11 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Fred G on Sun Apr 12 13:46:02 2009. The fact that every right-of-way that's been rail-trailed to date is still a trail keeps me from embracing the idea of a trail. All that does is create a new group that would oppose railroad restoration. It would be easier to restore service on the old Erie "main" to Port Jervis if the ROW wasn't turned into the Heritage Trail. |
|
|
| (769776) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:16:13 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:48:11 2009. That is correct. |
|
|
| (769779) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:17:50 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Kriston Lewis on Sun Apr 12 23:23:53 2009. You can do that? I demote myself to "normal guy with a passing interest who happens to have a camera, can dress himself and who has a wife and other interests". Wow, I feel so liberated ... |
|
|
| (769781) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:20:52 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become REEFED, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Apr 12 12:35:43 2009. I don't see the problem, most of this thread contains actual on-topic rail discussion/debate. 90% of my time and effort will be contained within it today. It's certainly better than arguing over grafitti, or how big a dipshit Terrapin is. |
|
|
| (769783) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:23:15 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by SilverFox on Sun Apr 12 21:16:51 2009. My paternal grandmother used to threaten us with it, because her definition of "profanity" involved words like "damn" and "darn". This from a woman who called my mother a Protestant wh....well, you get the idea. |
|
|
| (769784) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:25:19 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Apr 12 12:22:21 2009. There are lots of minorities in Suffolk. I've actually seen them with my own two eyes, a lot easier for me than for someone who lives in Kansas. |
|
|
| (769785) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:26:47 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 12 21:56:47 2009. He's never been to Wyandanch. Which I believe is in Suffolk County. Or Central Islip. Or Riverhead. Perhaps if he clicks his heels and grabs Toto ... |
|
|
| (769786) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Apr 13 12:29:01 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 11:51:15 2009. Electrification to Riverhead would be a waste, that's a LOOOOONG stretch between it and Yaphank with no stations and little patronage.I wasn't advocating for it, but my position is still that IF one electrifies to Riverhead, then LIRR might as well finish off the Main Line. To be sure, I am not arguing in favor of that ahead of electrification of the entire Port Jefferson and Oyster Bay branches, or hell, even the entire Montauk Line. |
|
|
| (769788) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:29:52 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:14:42 2009. I think that a true, full electrification proposal which doesn't include a yard outside of Port Jefferson would eventually win approval. Not the piecemiel stuff which includes yards elsewhere. Those proposals sound like they were constructed to fail. |
|
|
| (769790) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:31:28 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:12:03 2009. The town of Wassaic itself is so insignificant, you'd miss it if you blinked passing through. It's literally a gas station and a few homes. |
|
|
| (769791) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:32:28 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:08:26 2009. "I said that the remainder of the line would become less used, and yes, "ghost towny", as the closer it gets to the terminal, the more people will instead drive to the "last electrified" station instead of using their home station. If I lived in St James, and electrification ended in Smithtown, and that's where the one seat ride was, I would drive the short distance to Smithtown. And the same can be said of Stony Brook, or any of the stations east of there"That's because of a crappy schedule. If every electric departure from the newly electrified Smithtown had a matching diesel arrival from Port Jeff, including extra diesels at rush hour, you'd see more people hop the diesel instead of driving. Sure, if you live at the next station east you'd drive to Smithtown, but froim points east more people would go to their neighborhood station. Over and over again, people who ride from eastern Suffolk have told MTA that frequency of service is the issue. It's not the one seat ride. The one seat ride is great when you're a short drive away and the diesel only runs every two hours. Have the diesel run every 30 minutes and be pnctual to the schedule and you'd have a different story - you'd be addressing what passengers have said they want. Couple that to additional drivers trading their cars for the trin, and the eastern stations would not be ghost stations at all. They'd thrive. |
|
|
| (769792) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:34:54 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:12:03 2009. Amenia:View Larger Map |
|
|
| (769796) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:37:45 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:14:42 2009. If NIMBY is the primary issue (I accept your argument that demand is already there) then "Hart Bus" is obviously an anti-LIRR NIMBY. No question about it. |
|
|
| (769797) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:39:15 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:32:28 2009. That's because of a crappy schedule. If every electric departure from the newly electrified Smithtown had a matching diesel arrival from Port Jeff, including extra diesels at rush hour, you'd see more people hop the diesel instead of driving. Sure, if you live at the next station east you'd drive to Smithtown, but froim points east more people would go to their neighborhood station.Again, you are underestimating the allure of the one seat ride. People drive all the way from points east west and north of Ronkomoma because of that one seat ride. People that formerly used the Montauk and PJ lines. Again perhaps less than 5-10% of Ronkonkoma's riderhipe is probably from Ronkonkoma. If they are driving a 1/2 hour or longer to go all the way to Ronkonkoma, they will certainly drive 10-15 minutes to get to the end of electrification ont he PJ line. The service rush hours on the PJ line east of Huntington, while not on the level of west of Huntington is far from bad. Some of the trains are only 15 minutes apart. |
|
|
| (769798) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:41:02 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:32:28 2009. Over and over again, people who ride from eastern Suffolk have told MTA that frequency of service is the issue.And that's probably the case. But we are talking western/central suffolk here. Port Jefferson is far from being "Eastern Long Island". Wading River isn't even "Eastern Long Island". As for "Eastern Long Island", yes, the service sucks east of Ronkonkoma and east of Patchogue or Speonk.....and non-existent east of Port Jefferson, as the line is abandoned east of there. |
|
|
| (769799) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:41:44 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Apr 13 12:25:19 2009. Do you know where Suffolk is? You don't know the geography in Kansas and neighboring states, you don't know where I live, you don't live in Suffolk (and your visits are limited to railfanning) and you want to talk about minorities?"I've actually seen them with my own two eyes" And I've interacted with them in my trips east of New York City. I don't limit my interactions to just admiring railcars. |
|
|
| (769802) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Apr 13 12:45:14 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:39:15 2009. "Again, you are underestimating the allure of the one seat ride."No, you're overestimating it. Provide a same-platform transfer with a frequent schedule and a lot of people will be satisfied. "People that formerly used the Montauk and PJ lines" Lines with an even worse schedule than PJ if I recall correctly, and certainly no better. Electrify to Smithtown and provide matching diesel service and you'll see fewer people driving to Ronkonkoma and much busier diesel stations on the Port Jeff. |
|
|
| (769803) | |
Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail |
|
|
Posted by trainsarefun on Mon Apr 13 12:45:15 2009, in response to Re: Significant part of former LIRR Wading River Branch to become rail trail, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 13 12:00:59 2009. Before it was a zoo, the commuters would actually patronize those stores...I don't disagree with much of what you say, but prior to electrification, Ronkonkoma was just about the ass end of the LIRR universe, from all that I have seen. While some commuters may have patronized those KO establishments, their numbers certainly weren't anything like the numbers now. That said, however, some percentage of that much smaller ridership number is larger, perhaps far larger, than the almost zero fraction of the much larger ridership number currently seen. Overall, I largely agree with your thesis that KO electrification mostly 'stole' ridership from north and (moreso) south; moreso because of the relative positions. Another reason why it's very hard to talk about radical changes in Nassau and Suffolk is that ultimately, there has not been much change in land use. In Ronkonkoma, what has mostly changed is that land that was meadow and bush is now covered with asphalt. Atop the asphalt though are not businesses and homes but....cars. The big changes in Nassau and Suffolk have largely been demographically driven changes in population, e.g., Brentwood/Central Islip, based more on the affordability of housing stock than what LIRR did or didn't do. If you're looking for what might really change Nassau and Suffolk counties, I think that you must look to the probability of planned projects being executed. And the big boys are basically outlined here from NYT. I think that those are the projects which have the potential to drastically effect changes. |
|
|
|
Page 4 of 12 |
||
