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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 18:38:44 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 18:31:40 2007.

That had to be the quickest 2 seconds I did to post this quick message while outside Queens Plaza station.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 18:59:57 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 09:28:06 2007.

Im already Uptown by the early Afternoons on Fridays..

Oh.

What time are you around Brighton?

Let's see. If the time stamps on my videos can be trusted, I departed 59th street s/b at around 20 to noon, left Prospect Park around 12:10, and got off at Prospect Park after a trip to Brighton Beach (then to Kings Highway, then to Brighton Beach) and back at 1:20.



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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 19:07:16 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Dec 9 10:03:29 2007.

A file? Without ever breaking a law?

Also, I strongly doubt I'd ever work in NYCT. :(

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O


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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 19:10:54 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Dec 9 10:20:58 2007.


Well, the T/O sorta spoke to me at first but later said: "I'm not supposed to speak to you." Or "I'm not speaking to you." Or something similar.

Of course, with the T/O out of the cab frequently, it was sometimes a little hard to see whether she was speaking to me or over the radio, or to the conductor, or just in general. I'll check the footage (of course I have some!) to see if I can refresh my memory as to what happened.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 9 19:16:44 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Dec 9 10:44:51 2007.

I would say that using section 3 to prosecute the motorman would be a huge stretch of the penal law, but then again, in my police career I made a lot of arrest overtime by such stretching of the penal law!! By the way, a violation is not considered a crime in the NYS criminal procedure Law. Only misdemeanors & felonies are by definition crimes. A violation is comparable to a traffic summons.

Oh, and just for the record, in all my time as a volunteer operator at Branford I have never stopped anyone from taking pictures, as a matter of fact I encourage it. (But then again, I doubt any terrorist would consider BERA a target.)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 19:27:23 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Dec 9 10:03:29 2007.

When was he stopped by the MTA PD?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 19:40:19 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 9 19:16:44 2007.

Oh, and just for the record, in all my time as a volunteer operator at Branford I have never stopped anyone from taking pictures, as a matter of fact I encourage it. (But then again, I doubt any terrorist would consider BERA a target.)

Why would you stop anyone? Branford is private property. Either the owner of the property has a "no photography" rule or it doesn't. No one has a right to take photos there. If BERA decides to ban photos, they would ask people to stop, and if they don't, tell them to leave, and if they don't, have them arrested for trespassing. But somehow I don't see BERA banning photography onnakownna it's a trolley museum where people want to take photos, and banning photography would hurt the organization's bottom line.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 19:48:04 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Grand concourse on Sun Dec 9 12:28:57 2007.

No, I doubt it is possible, since he has done nothing wrong.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 19:48:47 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by chuchubob on Sun Dec 9 08:49:56 2007.

I don't mind the company, Bob!

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 19:50:10 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Grand concourse on Sun Dec 9 12:28:57 2007.

By now is it possible the MTA has "signs" warning T/o's and c/r's about him? I mean I know of bad luck, but this is getting ridiculous - seems like he's being targeted unfairly.

Unless his name is Darius M there arent any warning signs posted anywhere anyplace on RTO property..

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Sun Dec 9 20:07:05 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007.

A C/R called me a terrorist this past summer.

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Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.


First of all, please note the full disclosure, which I posted earlier, buried somewhere in this thread, but which I'll repost and expand upon here. The T/O did not say to my face "You're a terrorist." She stated (over the radio, I think, but outside the cab where everyone could hear) something along the lines of: "You're/he's taking pictures of the tracks. That's something terrorists do."

Now, I'm reviewing the footage from the encounter. I didn't get everything, unfortunately, but I'll post some transcripts. I'd post the video itself, but then the T/O and train would be identified. I'm worried that the transcript is enough.

Please note that this transcript is rough and hasty, so it may be less than perfect. Some things that are not relevant to the matter at hand (such as the C/R's routine announcements) have been omitted.

T/O, over radio, in station, in doorway: "I got the doors open in the station and people are requesting that he do not take pictures for the train to leave."

A few seconds later: "Sorry, rules and regulations, I have to do my job."

A few more seconds later: "There are passengers by my position. Where are the police gonna meet me at?"

Nilet: "Here's your rules and regulations." (Offers copy of 1050.9c)

T/O: "Show that to the police."

Nilet: "You don't know the rules of your own transit system?"

T/O: (to conductor over PA/Intercom) "You can close down." (to me) "Show it to the cops! I'm just the train operator. I'm not supposed to talk to you, I'm supposed to tell you what they told me to tell you."

Nilet: "Really? Your boss? Who would that be?"

T/O: "You cannot take a picture. I'm sorry, you cannot take a picture, OK?"

Nilet: "This says I can."

T/O: (at the same time as I said that) "...of me."

Nilet: "I'm filming the rules, in case I have to sue." (camera lens was pointed right into paper at the time; nice close-range focus, BTW. T/O says something at the same time; I can't quite make it out.)

T/O: (over PA/Intercom; certainly loud enough for people in the first car to hear even if it wasn't over the complete train PA): "You know what, partner? If the cops do not meet me, I'm taking this train out of service! 'Cuz I'm not gonna allow somebody to jeopardize what I'm doing."

(long pause as we travel to next station)

T/O, over PA after stopping at next station: "Is there a police officer on board this train? Come to the train operator's position!"

(long pause as we travel to next station)

Nilet: (while moving) *reads relevant portion of 1050.9(c)* "I don't see what's so hard to understand about this!" (muttering)

(nothing is said while stopped at next station)

T/O: (just as we begin to depart, over PA/Intercom, but loud enough for people in first car to hear even if not over PA itself) "Partner, please be advised that this guy is still taking pictures of the tracks!" (actually, I wasn't and had not taken any pictures or video other than the footage of the incident itself, on that train or in the station where I first got on. T/O also says something else, including a reference to cops, but I can't make it out over the moving train.)

At that point, the camera is turned off. I'm guessing I bumped the button. The next bit starts after we've arrived in the next station. I think we were there a little longer than normal, likely waiting for a cop who didn't come. Roll tape!

Nilet: (to another TA worker who asks if I'm the one the T/O's been referring to) "I've got my 'permit' right here. She doesn't want to read it."

(long pause, travel to next station)

Random Passenger: (doesn't appear on camera) "(inaudible) Turn that shit off, man!"

Nilet: "What?"

T/O: (over radio, loud enough for many people in first car to hear) "[Tower], come into the [call letters] out of [terminal]!

Passenger: (from before, at same time, says something mostly inaudible, seems to be along the lines of "don't film me.")

Nilet: "I'm not." (camera lens is buried in 1050.9(c) paper.)

T/O: (at same time, continuing from before) "...passengers are complaining that this guy is filming passengers on my train!"

Nilet: "I'm not! Look! I'm filming this!" (shows that camera lens is buried in 1050.9(c) paper)

T/O: (more or less at same time, ignoring me) "Passengers are complaining, I did not receive a cop yet." (pause) "I've been [inaudible, sounds like 'signalled.']")

C/R: (over PA) "At this time, we're waiting for police assistance, we should be moving momentarily."

There's also a brief remark from the T/O or C/R, but I can't make it out and the clip ends after only a couple words.

I have a brief (18-second) clip another station down the line, but there's nothing of interest in it. The T/O has gotten off the train, and is looking into a cop booth or post or something. I can't quite tell whether the cab door is open (I think it is, but it's not really clear), but I'm pretty sure the train is charged. (It didn't dump.) I briefly remark: "He's not there," referring to the fact that there is no cop at the post at that time. I also say: "And we're stop..." with the end of the clip cutting me off.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 20:36:37 2007, in response to Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007.

Why cause so much stress for her, yourself, and the rest of the passengers?

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:46:51 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 20:36:37 2007.

It would probably have been more stressful for me in the long run to simply throw away plans for pics/vid when someone demands it!

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Lord Vader on Sun Dec 9 21:04:34 2007, in response to Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007.

Fugheddaboudit Nilet. Crying here isn't going to make the problem go away. Contact the NYCLU and update them on this. Plus, these guys can help as well: NY1, Arnold Diaz Shame on You, and 7 On Your Side. Time to get the Media involved Brah! And make sure you send them a copy of the rule.

Vader

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Dec 9 21:26:56 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Lord Vader on Sun Dec 9 21:04:34 2007.

And upload the video (or at least allow the media outlet of your choice to play it). If the lack of professionalism you allege this T/O had is true, there should be a prompt replacement of said T/O.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 22:08:19 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Lord Vader on Sun Dec 9 21:04:34 2007.

Eh. I was just posting here because I was hesitant to go and get a T/O in trouble, and I wanted to hear the views of the T/Os who post here. It's been months and I'm still pursuing the complaint about the illegal search and deleted photos; I'm the type of person known to hold a grudge! :)

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 22:29:45 2007, in response to Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007.

What type of car?

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 22:57:06 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 22:29:45 2007.

Oh? Why? Revealing the car type will significantly narrow down the where and when; should I post it anyway?

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 22:59:58 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 22:57:06 2007.

Was it significantly better than the next cars that would have come along in 5 or 10 minutes?

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 23:00:36 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 22:57:06 2007.

It will also determine if you were shooting film through a true railfan window or through the motorman's cab.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Broadway Buffer on Sun Dec 9 23:18:32 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:46:51 2007.

Maybe, but once it was escalating to that point, couldn't you just wait for the next train? I mean once the T/O was actually holding the train over it, did it really pay to stand up to her any further? I think its safe to say that most T/O's wouldn't act as this one did and therefore you probably would not have had any problems on the next train.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 23:20:52 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 22:59:58 2007.

Oh. No. I resent being forced to wait extra time on a relatively poor-headway line just because someone throws a fit about photos or video (which I didn't even take.)

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 23:22:37 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 23:00:36 2007.

True RFW.

Of course, I hadn't actually shot anything; the camcorder was out and I held it up to lock the focus, but I hadn't taken any video yet.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 9 23:46:03 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Albiet in a very different way, you sound like another person who posts here. As you describe it, the incident sounds a bit far-fetched. Is your name, per chance, Walter Mitty?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 23:56:37 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 9 23:46:03 2007.

No. Why? What's this about?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Mon Dec 10 00:11:25 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 23:56:37 2007.

Calling someone Walter Mitty doesn't seem to be a compliment. I guess it means that you dream big, but have no follow through.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:20:31 2007, in response to Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007.

I'd post the video itself, but then the T/O and train would be identified.

Post it, those little pissants deserve to be figured out for declaring war on the unexpected.


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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:23:41 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 22:08:19 2007.

I was just posting here because I was hesitant to go and get a T/O in trouble, and I wanted to hear the views of the T/Os who post here.

Get the T/O in trouble. Standing up for yourself will make the next T/O think twice before trying to be a terrorism vigilante. Those who engage in BULLSHIT security should not be commended or let off the hook, they should be punished.

The whole mentality behind CYA Security is that one get's in trouble for NOT crying wolf over every little thing. You need to flip that on end so the MTA employees properly evaluate threats.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:31:08 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Dec 9 10:03:29 2007.

I'd better keep an eye on him during the Mid-Winter trip :-) Last year Fred G and Will(?) got busted on PATCO w/o even trying :-D

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by monorail on Mon Dec 10 00:49:43 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 18:38:44 2007.

unless you had a better chance of a 'quickie' elsewhere.......

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Nilet on Mon Dec 10 01:12:27 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:23:41 2007.

I don't know how much the T/O really thought I was a "wolf," given that she (I think, but I couldn't swear to it) left me alone standing two inches from the unlocked cab door of a fully-charged train that she was not, physically, on the inside of.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by monorail on Mon Dec 10 01:22:14 2007, in response to Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:20:31 2007.

post the damn thing, already!

you are NOT getting the t/o in trouble!
she did it to herself!

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 10 03:07:59 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by error46146 on Sun Dec 9 17:11:58 2007.

True they should, & hopefully some day they will. But there was no crime here, just a very bad call on the T/O's part. At least from what I gather from Nilet's post.

Jimmymc25

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Dec 10 03:13:17 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 9 07:56:26 2007.

Yup you're right, no law broken, but I'd say bad judgement on the T/O's part.

Jimmymc25

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 10 08:25:28 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Grand concourse on Sun Dec 9 13:49:36 2007.

Putting R-46s on the (E) would be a felony to him.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by south brooklyn railway on Mon Dec 10 09:52:36 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 10 08:25:28 2007.

That would control his foam.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by WillD on Mon Dec 10 10:40:16 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:31:08 2007.

Nope, I got hassled by a SEPTA cop the year before at 8th and Market on the Broad Ridge Spur when I got a bit too clever with my responses to a SEPTA T/O. As it turns out "Of course they must know people will take pictures in the subway" is not an acceptable answer to "Do they know you're taking pictures down here?" according to the cop and train operator in question

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:51:46 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by south brooklyn railway on Mon Dec 10 09:52:36 2007.

...and what would control your foam????



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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:52:44 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Dec 10 08:25:28 2007.

Hah, I remember when the E's had 46's ALL THE TIME, along with the F.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 10 10:54:28 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 00:31:08 2007.

No that was Nilet, a friend of chuchubob's and me who got detained by the PATCO PD.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 10 11:02:33 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:51:46 2007.

Monorail. Heh.

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Re: Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Dec 10 11:22:01 2007, in response to Reviewing The Footage (Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 20:08:24 2007.

They already *KNOW* who the T/O is, she was on the radio with control, calling for cops to come and hold her hand.

No skin off your nose.

ROAR

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 12:35:34 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 10 10:54:28 2007.

You mean the same person who got called a terrorist in this thread?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 10 13:02:37 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 10 12:35:34 2007.

One in the same. He has a history.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Dave on Mon Dec 10 13:37:31 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Amazing how these things always happen to you. What are you doing that attracts so much attention?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Dec 10 14:05:42 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 10 13:02:37 2007.

Better get Homeland Security on the line.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 10 14:36:44 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:52:44 2007.

Same here.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Dec 10 14:49:00 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:51:46 2007.

Girls.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Mon Dec 10 14:50:18 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Mon Dec 10 10:51:46 2007.

You see, here's the thing, you STILL call me a foamer, when I meet all these other subchatters on fan trips, they don't keep saying that, but you STILL do. I'm trying not to have any problems with anyone here, but you still want to flame. Wow, thats very nice.

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