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Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007


OK, so a t/o called me a "terrorist" for taking photos. Even though I hadn't actually taken any photos at the time. And acted in a semi-unprofessional manner. And (sorta) incited passengers against me by declaring "I won't move the train if you're on it" and "I'm gonna take this train out of service" or words to that effect. And, although I'm not fully certain, did some unsafe sorts of things during operation. This goes far beyond anything I've ever encountered from any Empty Yay workers and I'd kinda like to complain, but on the other hand, I really don't want to get a t/o in trouble unless really necessary. Should I just let this go? Or what should I do? I don't think any laws were broken, although I can't swear that all of the Empty Yay's rules were upheld. At present, I might just let it go, but I figured I should ask some other SubChatters about it, especially other T/Os. Either way, I'm pretty sure the worst course of action would be to simply post call letters and details of transgressions here, so I won't be doing that.

Incidentally, this was only one of three "encounters" had during my all-day railfanning, although the other two may have been sparked by this first one. Since no cop was ever found, this didn't end in a police encounter. The other two did, and contain many important story details, but I may have to wait until I upload the video from those encounters.

(530029)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 01:02:05 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

I don't think any laws were broken,

If he told you to stop taking pictures then he violated 21NYCRR 1050.9(c)

(530030)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 01:04:07 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

3 times in one day?!? Man you really have bad luck!

(530034)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

You gotta be doing something to provoke these people. How come other people don't get this kind of trouble?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 01:29:08 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007.

Something is fishy...

your pal,
Fred

(530037)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Dec 9 01:29:53 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Damn, are you a negativity magnet, or what?

(530043)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 01:55:18 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007.

Very observant.
Our better photographers don't get into any trouble whatsoever.
However our photographers on the outer fringes of mental disorders are constantly being questioned, yelled at and told to leave the system!

(530044)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 01:57:38 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Or you can do like Terrapin SAYS he's gonna do which is show the TA employee some folded up copy of rules or some silly court order.
Or you can do WHAT Terrapin does and do nothing but fold like a cheap camera.

(530048)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by monorail on Sun Dec 9 02:03:34 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

was this a t/o on the F?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:19:21 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 01:57:38 2007.

I showed the rules. T/O said: "I'm not supposed to talk to you." Before that, it was: "You have your rules and I have mine" or words to that effect.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:20:27 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 01:55:18 2007.

Hey!

Incidentally, Fred was questioned by a PATCO cop on the last SubChat group trip along with me. It can happen to anyone!

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:21:09 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by monorail on Sun Dec 9 02:03:34 2007.

I don't want to say anything that could get the T/O in trouble right now, but no.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:22:23 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 01:04:07 2007.

Well...

One or more of the other two could have been sparked by the first. Having someone describe me over the radio as a "terrorist" does not bode well for future avoidance of police encounters.

And, I should say, I would not call all three of them "negative."

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 9 02:23:41 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:22:23 2007.

If he did behave in such a manor..the it was UNPROFESSIONAL.
BANG IT IN.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Clayton on Sun Dec 9 02:28:04 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007.

When you look like Richard Reid (the attempted airliner shoebomber), you tend to be a target...

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 02:52:47 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Clayton on Sun Dec 9 02:28:04 2007.

That's not how most people picture a terrorist, but I wouldn't say that's who Nilet looks like in the pictures anyway.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 03:13:53 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:20:27 2007.

It can and does happen to nearly all of the transit photographers. Just not so often.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 03:32:51 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 03:13:53 2007.

I being a transit employee and transit buff would not bother a photgrapher. I would still aproach them if say, they were at my depot and start a conversation with them and see if was someone from this board.
Its how I met one of the posters in here and still talk to via emails often.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 03:44:04 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:20:27 2007.

He did say "fringe"!

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 03:48:17 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 03:32:51 2007.

Would you say that the ones that do are doing so because they don't like rail/bus fans or because they aren't aware of the hobby?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 03:48:21 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Did you get foam on his window? :P

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 03:50:26 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 03:48:17 2007.

I would guess that they are unaware of the hobby or they may have had bad run ins with extreme foamers and now they are just broad brushing all of you together.


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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:14:38 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 03:44:04 2007.

Oh. I suppose that comes with the territory of being an artist?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:15:20 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 03:48:21 2007.

Heh. I didn't get any decent railfanning done on that train. :(

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:22:05 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 01:24:51 2007.


I dunno. I held up my camcorder so as to lock in the focus (since the autofocus blobs in and out if there's too little light) and I'm young. And I look like Richard Reid Jesus someone Arabic if you squint and are really drunk "suspicious" or something.

In the interests of full disclosure, the T/O did not tell me I was a terrorist to my face. The exact words were closer to "He's filming the tracks. That's something terrorists do," announced to pretty much the entire car and (maybe) over the radio. I sort of sensed the implication that the meaning was "that's something only terrorists do," but it didn't help that this was stated loudly outside the cab where everyone could hear. :(

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 04:26:37 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 03:50:26 2007.

I think that some railfans can get in the way. So much into getting the shot that they don't realize that they are in the way of other passengers and the crew. I also think that some T/O's and B/O's just don't want their picture taken.

(530088)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 04:35:59 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:14:38 2007.

yes, dammit!

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:37:12 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 9 04:35:59 2007.

OK, OK, I get it! :D

your pal,
CHIRP


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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Dec 9 05:39:21 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 02:22:23 2007.

Sounds to me more like someone was very much paranoid and doesn't understand the laws to say the least.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 06:58:40 2007, in response to Called A "Terrorist" By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 00:42:46 2007.

Full steam ahead.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 07:09:45 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 04:37:12 2007.

If you're still up at 4:30 AM, I guess we won't see you on the museum train at 10 AM today? Or maybe you aren't going to bed...

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 07:22:21 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 07:09:45 2007.

Don't worry, you had ur sleep and so did I (1 AM to now, six hours is enough for me).

Time to attend Act 2.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 9 07:56:26 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by BMTLines on Sun Dec 9 01:02:05 2007.

["If he told you to stop taking pictures then he violated 21NYCRR 1050.9(c)"]

How did the motorman violate that law? Does the law state that it's against the law (thereby prosecutable) for an transit employee to ask one to stop taking pictures? If it is, is it a violation, misdemeaner, or felony?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:10:41 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 03:13:53 2007.

It can even Happen to Transit People on Vacation, wasnt called a Terrorist though

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:12:35 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 9 04:26:37 2007.

<=== Wishes this T/O would get his "shot taken" once in a while..

LOL LOL LOL

Im not camera shy..

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 08:14:02 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:12:35 2007.

Hard to do when you don't give us intervals to look out for...

Like when you were on the (D) last week...

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Dec 9 08:21:51 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 07:22:21 2007.

Let us know if there are any changes in the schedule/route so that those of us who will be there for the later runs (me!) know.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:25:39 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 08:14:02 2007.

If i knew the supplement i would have but hey you got my lead motor..

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:27:03 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:25:39 2007.

BTW i make a 1045 out of Bedford today, im not going to 2nd ave so you can't look for me there..

;o)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 9 08:40:57 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 9 07:56:26 2007.

How did the motorman violate that law?

You make a good point. If we overstate the extent of the employee's transgression, we lose credibility.

The T/O in question is not a lawbreaker. He is however an incompetent employee (or under the direction of incompetent supervisors), and as a result he damages the credibility of the entity that employs him.

All of the following are comparable in that they bring the employer's reputation into disrepute:

- A sales person who makes unjustified claims about a product, the result being customer dissatisfaction and anger at the company.

- A police officer who tells someone to stop doing something that is perfectly legal, claining that it's illegal.

- A transit employee who makes trouble for someone engaged in compeltely legal activites.

However, none are crimes, or even minor violations of the law.



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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 08:41:42 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:27:03 2007.

Aw, don't think I can make that. :(

You work the on Fridays, right? What time? I was all over the Brighton line in the early afternoon.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 08:43:50 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 07:09:45 2007.

I went to bed. Now I'm awake. You may just see me on the first trip or the first two trips of the day. I'mm have to bail early, though. Grandma's Hanukkah party is today. :)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 08:47:28 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 08:43:50 2007.

Ok!

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by chuchubob on Sun Dec 9 08:49:56 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Sun Dec 9 01:55:18 2007.

Our better photographers don't get into any trouble whatsoever.
However our photographers on the outer fringes of mental disorders are constantly being questioned, yelled at and told to leave the system!


NOW I understand why Fred G and I get questioned and Rich Panse and Trevor Logan don't! Thanks for the explanation.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 08:53:18 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 9 08:47:28 2007.

Yep. See ya. The party's going to be ...interesting... this year because there's gonna be Chinese food. The normal caterer bailed and emergency replacements had to be smuggled in quickly.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 09:07:37 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Dec 9 08:21:51 2007.

I don't think I can, all of the stations are too deep underground for me to obtain internet access on my Mogul. Your best bet is to go to 2nd Ave, any Uptown 6th Ave or 53rd street line station or Queens Plaza.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Sun Dec 9 09:11:52 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Bob Andersen on Sun Dec 9 08:21:51 2007.

If anything, I can go outside Queens Plaza or 71/Continental and make a quick post while the train is relaying. Of course I always have a 30 day Unlimited, the only exception was last Saturday when I was riding the R40M/42 on the D line. I bought a (gasp!) single ride.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Pablo M 201 on Sun Dec 9 09:22:29 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 08:27:03 2007.

You're probably going to be around Midtown around the time I get to NY today so I'll see if I get your train.

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 09:28:06 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sun Dec 9 08:41:42 2007.

Im already Uptown by the early Afternoons on Fridays..

What time are you around Brighton?

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 9 09:38:02 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Pablo M 201 on Sun Dec 9 09:22:29 2007.

Look for a T/O with a vest on and thats me...

If you wave and i wave back its me...

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