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(533874)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 10:07:53 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 14 14:03:34 2007.

Kevin understand this Terrapin is taking Nilets word for what happend(and i dont see a problem with that) this is what is at issue here, the T/O's "actions"...

BTW even Nilet said the T/O never called him a terrorist rigth Nilet?

Terrapin wasnt there i wasnt there you wasnt there so until we or somebody gets the "Offical" version of the story and compares it to Nilets we are all "ass-u-ming"..

Tell me if im wrong Terrapin..

(534034)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 17:19:56 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 14 16:43:33 2007.

That is not an unwarranted personal attack.

(534037)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 17:32:24 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 14 16:40:24 2007.

No, I'll simply repeat that the T/O was totally at fault here.

(534038)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 17:33:55 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Dec 14 16:42:36 2007.

No, this is my response to your previous post, which did not contain content relevant to the thread. My on-topic argument is that the T/O is totally to blame here. That has not changed.

(534043)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by straphanger9 on Sat Dec 15 17:42:15 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 12 14:54:34 2007.

the "other passengers" is what really does it...you get a bunch of prudish old NIMBY geese who believe all the $#!+ they see on the news, and call in every little thing (especially the little old ladies, they are HORRIBLE for this), and before you know it there's a cloud of suspicion, ha i can hear the voices now

"he was...he was...takin pictures! with that...thing! it blinded me, sonny, it was so bright! they oughta 'rrest him right on the spot!"

and because they know so little about what IS and ISNT suspicious behavioir, this is the greatest threat, since they're liable to call you in for having a concealed handgun if you reach down while on the platform to scratch your ankle underneath your trousers.

that's the beauty of the museum cars in regular service, and the fantrips...everyone EXPECTS people to be taking pictures so its not viewed with the same suspicion

(534047)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 17:49:40 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Fri Dec 14 17:48:52 2007.

Thanks.

No, both parties were not at fault, as far as we know. We only know that this was totally the T/O's fault. No one made her tell Nilet that photography is not allowed but herself.

(534063)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 18:09:11 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 00:00:25 2007.

Exactly. People that can't understand what you are saying have issues.

(534085)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 18:29:43 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 09:36:41 2007.

As I have said before, but which you don't seem to understand:

1. You are paranoid
2. You are wrong
3. I can take any photos I want, and I know how to do it
4. Your loss that you can't or won't try

(534088)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 18:36:07 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 10:07:53 2007.

You are wrong.

I am not taking Nilet's word for it. I am simply looking at the situation as if Nilet's word is the truth, because that is all we have. I am not saying that it IS the truth, nor am I claiming like other here that Nilet is lying.

We are not here to determine what actually happened, since we can't do that without more evidence. We ARE here to say that assuming what Nilet says happened DID happen, then the T/O was totally at fault. No one made here tell Nilet that photography is not allowed but her own dumb self. And no one made her use the word "terrorist" in earshot of Nilet but her own dumb self. Both of those actions were wrong, uncalled for, idiotic, and stupid, and in violation of common sense. And at least the first action was in violation of the memo and her training.

Kevin is not assuming. He is closing his ears to viewpoints that he doesn't agree with. He is not an honest debater.

(534099)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 15 19:06:32 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by straphanger9 on Sat Dec 15 17:42:15 2007.

Well, when you have ordinary random people saying when the see something, that's what happens!

(534100)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Dec 15 19:07:35 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by BMTLines on Wed Dec 12 14:54:34 2007.

Agreed.

(534106)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 19:17:35 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 18:36:07 2007.

I am not taking Nilet's word for it. I am simply looking at the situation as if Nilet's word is the truth, because that is all we have. I am not saying that it IS the truth

But this is the problem that many of us have with your zealous defense of Nilet....

While I understand that you do not believe that Nilet's story IS necessarily the truth, you concede that you're treating Nilet's story AS if it were IN FACT necessarily the truth because we haven't heard from anyone else who was there. Many of us, myself included, are a lot more skeptical than that, and because of that attitude, which is responsible as we all know for many of the great advances in thought over the past few millennia, we are strongly inclined to not treat Nilet's story as the truth without more indicia of its reliability. His story is not the norm - you've said that by placing blame on the NYCT employee - and so we're inclined to be more skeptical of the abnormal, and also when the story now varies somewhat compared to the original story.

He is not an honest debater.

He shouldn't be a DEBATER at all, nevermind your charge that he's not honest! This is the problem, to my view, about some posts here. This isn't debate. Most of us want discussion, not debate. Philosophy please, not sophistry, as the Socratics said some centuries back.

Real discussion of Nilet's story is fundamentally limited by the lack of information he's provided, though. For that reason, I've shunned the topic, except to address these meta-issues about his account.

(534131)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 19:53:29 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 09:36:41 2007.

Hey, ain't it funny how you can easily tell how some guys never got that all important humble-fying butt whuppin' at some point in their lives?

Or maybe some of us did and then got a big-ass lawyer to whip the butt-kicker's wallet (including entire bank account and garnished his salary for a few years to boot)!!!!

(534198)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:36:59 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 18:36:07 2007.

So in other words..

You are ASS-U-MING...

Right?

Thats what it looks like to me with all those words you just used.

Kevins "disscusion" with you is another matter..



(534207)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:47:35 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Fri Dec 14 17:48:52 2007.

BTW that "memo" was a "safety standown" and its not in any bulletin boards i seen today..

Usually things we "sign for" isnt something that's easy to come by..

(534238)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:36:42 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 19:17:35 2007.

While I understand that you do not believe that Nilet's story IS necessarily the truth, you concede that you're treating Nilet's story AS if it were IN FACT necessarily the truth because we haven't heard from anyone else who was there. Many of us, myself included, are a lot more skeptical than that, and because of that attitude, which is responsible as we all know for many of the great advances in thought over the past few millennia, we are strongly inclined to not treat Nilet's story as the truth without more indicia of its reliability. His story is not the norm - you've said that by placing blame on the NYCT employee - and so we're inclined to be more skeptical of the abnormal, and also when the story now varies somewhat compared to the original story.

That is your choice. I personally think it is ridiculous to doubt someone who has not ever been shown to be a liar in the past (whereas people like Selkrk and Train Dude HAVE), and who in personally known by several people here, and no one has said anything bad about him that would make you think that maybe he might want to pull one over on all of us.

He shouldn't be a DEBATER at all, nevermind your charge that he's not honest! This is the problem, to my view, about some posts here. This isn't debate. Most of us want discussion, not debate. Philosophy please, not sophistry, as the Socratics said some centuries back.

Ok, then I should have said "not an honest discusser".

Real discussion of Nilet's story is fundamentally limited by the lack of information he's provided, though. For that reason, I've shunned the topic, except to address these meta-issues about his account.

All Nilet asked was whether we thought he should pursue this (in whatever way) based on the events as HE stated them.

(534240)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:37:40 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:36:59 2007.

I am not assuming. I am discussing AS IF something were true, but I recognize the fact that it may not be true.

(534261)

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Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O

Posted by straphanger9 on Sat Dec 15 22:51:52 2007, in response to Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 15 19:06:32 2007.

Good link. That really goes along with how I feel about trusting "Phyllis" and "Walter" calling the shots. Especially because these same people who view photography as suspicious don't seem to understand that aside any kind of bomb / poison gas threat (which would require a suspicious package, not just the occurrence of photography - and do you really think someone intending to plant a bomb or poison gas is going to go around photographing FIRST?) there is really little that is feasible about terror in the subway.

think about it: if someone tries to hijack a train (b/c after 9/11 we're back to being terrified of hijackers again like this is 1995 and movies like Executive Decision and Air Force One just came out), exactly WHERE are the hijackers going to go? the ONLY place they can go is where the tracks tell them to go! and assuming they actually know how to operaate the train themselves and don't dump it, if they do ANYthing suspicious, the train crew or command will notice, and it's quite likely that the displaced T/O would say something too, and he knows his train's callsign AND lead car #!

The whole problem with false positives in security is that they deter police efforts from REAL threats...kind of like the "why you don't pull the fire alarm" rationale in that you are costing firefighters time if they're trying to get to a REAL fire if they have to come out and check on your situation. So while "Phyllis" and "Walter" are whining about photography on the subway, EVERYONE's attention is diverted, including the other geese who "want to watch." But they fail to realize that what they should be looking for is suspicious PACKAGES, not people in their Metrocard T-shirts and R-train hats photographing the equipment. Hell, as a passenger I'd find it MORE suspicious if someone was photographing down a tunnel where there was nothing unique, not if they're photographing a train pulling into or leaving a station in plain view of everyone, including any police that may be there.

(534264)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:54:16 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Sat Dec 15 21:47:35 2007.

What is a "safety standown"?

(534268)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 22:58:51 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by BMTLines on Sat Dec 15 19:53:29 2007.

Sheesh. I'm talkin' about like, in kindergarten or junior high school or somesuch. You know, when the lesson gets "appreciated" more. So, the lawyer/wallet scenario is not applicable. More like, when you're growing up there comes that first time when you mouth off to the wrong guy. Like I said, a good lesson. Part of the adventure to becoming a full human being.

(534271)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by trainsarefun on Sat Dec 15 23:00:45 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 22:58:51 2007.

Hey, even kids are lawyering up, these days!



(534277)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:03:21 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 22:58:51 2007.

You are wrong, once again.

Your version of life is pretty sickening. I feel bad for you. I hope your life improves to make up for all the crap it seems you went through when you were younger.

(534381)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by South Ferry on Sun Dec 16 00:54:52 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by ntrainride on Sat Dec 15 22:58:51 2007.

the adventure to becoming a full human being.

In other words, an hour after Thanksgiving.

(534397)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 16 02:34:58 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 23:03:21 2007.

No, he's not wrong. I know what he's talking about.

(534404)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 16 02:59:17 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 16 02:34:58 2007.

Heck..a lot of people do..

Thats why "That Guy" will NEVER get it.

He's so full of SOUND AND FURY on THIS board...yet he's a real pussy in the "real world".

Stop talking to him..and he'll get the hint.

(534420)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 07:09:23 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 16 02:34:58 2007.

He actually is wrong.

(534421)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 07:10:08 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 16 02:59:17 2007.

hahahahahahaahahahhaahhaahah

you're a big pussy galore!!!!

a big baby!!!!!


ahaahahahhahahah!

waaah waah waah!!!!

(534434)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 16 07:53:05 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:37:40 2007.

Uh huh yeah, got ya no problem...

(534438)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 16 07:59:37 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 15 22:54:16 2007.

Put it this way,when the higher ups get nervous about something or there is a major screw-up somewhere or they just want to
"keep us on our toes", TSS's go around with something that we have to read, understand and sign for..

On the paper its called a "safety standown" beacuse it has something to do with safe operation or procedures(thats how i look at it) that needs to be followed IF something goes down and you are in the area or its on your train..

Its done a few times down here, things like that with your signature on it are filed away and will be used against you if you screw up, espeically if you signed and "understood" that paper..

(534617)

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Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O)

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 16 17:29:59 2007, in response to Re: MTA training (Re: Called A ''Terrorist'' By A T/O), posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 16 07:59:37 2007.

Ok, thanks.

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