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Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018

Listen to Prince Andrew's state of the State address today. One of the topics released to the press is his request to the MTA for feesablity of building a subway to Redhook Brooklyn.

Yup an under river tunnel (or channel)... What happened to expanding 2nd Ave?



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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Jan 3 09:37:45 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

"Hey, look at me! Caring about Transit!!!"

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(1460996)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by pragmatist on Wed Jan 3 09:40:56 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

With the Williamsburg and the Manhattan Bridges being over 100 years old, thinking about a new tunnel under under the river is not a bad idea. That does not change the need for 2nd Ave, or anything else, or say that this is the place it should be..plenty of reasons to think LIRR to lower Manhattan extending Atlantic through a dbl deck (like 63rd) along with added subway might be better long term...

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(1461009)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 3 11:51:03 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Could it not be a branch from an existing subway in Brooklyn, rather than a new tunnel from Manhattan? An extension of the G train, maybe?

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(1461011)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Dan on Wed Jan 3 12:02:51 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Too bad there is absolutely no money laying around for this project.

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(1461016)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 12:38:03 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Dan on Wed Jan 3 12:02:51 2018.

No he is asking the Port Authority to do a study and tied in moving the container operation to the Brooklyn Army Terminal from Red Hook.
Waiting for the papers to pick upon the entire speech.

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(1461018)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Jace on Wed Jan 3 13:14:16 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Nice move! This would take the city out of the equation (at least for transportation, re: BQX) allowing the state to undermine De Blasio and gain the support of the real estate interests who want to build out Red Hook.

Tying in a Port Authority move from Atlantic Terminal is quite shrewd too. The only issue is that the piers along Buttermilk Channel are the deepest natural channels in the city - that's why the QM2 ties up there. It'll take a lot of dredging to get water that deep at the Army terminal. Maybe they'll leave the cruise terminal alone and only relocate the container operations.

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(1461020)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 3 13:54:38 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by pragmatist on Wed Jan 3 09:40:56 2018.

plenty of reasons to think LIRR to lower Manhattan extending Atlantic through a dbl deck (like 63rd) along with added subway might be better long term

Another project that will never happen. There has, however, been more than enough spent on ESA to actually do it and connect it to ESA.

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(1461022)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by pragmatist on Wed Jan 3 14:07:36 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 3 13:54:38 2018.

The fact that it won't happen doesn't mean it isn't better than what is offered. not sure if I wasn't a little confusing when I said like 63rd, i was referring to a new double deck tunnel like 63rd, not 63rd itself

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(1461036)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 3 16:11:52 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 3 11:51:03 2018.

Extending the G train int Red Hook would require some rather complex construction since there is no practical space to build a connection to the Smith St Line.

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(1461037)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 3 16:17:45 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Man has a poor sense of priorities. Or reality.

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(1461040)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by sitechboy on Wed Jan 3 16:53:02 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

why not just a free ferry or bus (gasp) thru the battery-Carey tunnel

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(1461056)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 3 19:58:33 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Here's the text: (p. 198) - https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/2018-stateofthestatebook.pdf

"In addition, the Governor is also calling on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to study options for improving transportation access to the Red Hook area and surrounding communities, including the
potential extension of subway service from lower Manhattan to a new station in Red Hook through an underwater tunnel. Once a plan for how to modernize and potentially consolidate maritime activities becomes clear and the MTA study is completed, a community- based planning process with key participation by elected representatives and interested stakeholders would be expected to recommend the appropriate redevelopment alternatives for any Port Authority land no longer needed for maritime needs."

He also wants this:

"Building on this effort, Governor Cuomo will support a review of the potential for a public private partnership with Simon Properties to bring a new Metro- North station to Woodbury Common. New rail access to Woodbury Common will ease traffic congestion and also serve anticipated increases in rail ridership demand from the Legoland and Empire Resorts casino developments."

And this:

"To address this problem, this year, Governor Cuomo will call upon the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to expeditiously authorize the development
205
of an AirTrain connection between LaGuardia and Willets Point in Queens, creating access to both the number 7 subway train and the Long Island Rail Road, which offer service to Grand Central, Penn Station and all of Long Island. The project is expected to be developed through a public-private partnership, leveraging significant private capital and providing access to midtown Manhattan in under 30 minutes. The Port Authority should begin the environmental review process as soon as possible with the goal of starting construction in 2019."

Curiously, while he spends a lot of ink on redeveloping and expanding Stewart Airport, he does nor mention rail access there.






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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 3 21:04:57 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Any plan to extend ANY subway tunnel to Brooklyn for the express purpose of creating one new stop in Red Hook is ridiculous. Especially if they decide to extend the (1) train there, as in the original plans.

I have a better "pipe dream" plan. Any thought of a subway to Red Hook has to be tied into the final plans of the Second Avenue Line. South of the Grand Street station (wherever they decide to put it), a branch will turn left towards the river. Build the tunnel there, where the river is shortest. Build it deep, so the new line can easily pass beneath the existing lines in downtown Brooklyn.

After heading southeast through the new tunnel into Brooklyn, the line will turn south beneath Cadman Plaza Park, and then south beneath Court Street. First stop would be Court Street - Borough Hall, with transfers to the (2)(3)(4)(5) and (R) trains.

Continue south beneath Court Street, with the next stop being Carroll Street. A short transfer passage can be built to the Carroll Street (F) and (G) station one block to the east. After Carroll Street, they can send the line into Red Hook, to wherever the hell they please. Not sure where they want the line to terminate.

The NIMBYs of Cobble Hill and Carroll Gardens would never allow such disruptive subway construction. But instead of a one stop dead-end extension of the (1) train (which would cease to exist any time a G/O shuts down the (1) south of Chambers Street), my plan nets a shorter under river tunnel, an additional subway serving downtown Brooklyn, and the ability for commuters coming from *multiple* Brooklyn neighborhoods to have a direct transfer to the Second Avenue Line, further reducing overcrowding on the Lexington Avenue Line trains from Brooklyn for those heading to the East Side.

In addition, this plan hinges on the Second Avenue Line being built at least as far south as Grand Street, ensuring that more of it gets completed. If the Governor or Mayor want pet projects to help Red Hook for whatever reason, then get the major stuff done first. And then make smarter decisions that can help service MANY people, and not just some dumbass one stop extension to that neighborhood.

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(1461066)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 3 21:15:10 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by italianstallion on Wed Jan 3 19:58:33 2018.

1. Subway to Red Hook is a wtf out of left field.
2. Metro-North to Woodbury Common would be great, especially if it leads to more frequencies on the Port Jervis line.
3. AirTrain connection between LaGuardia and Willets Point in Queens, creating access to both the number 7 subway train and the Long Island Rail Road, which offer service to Grand Central, Penn Station and all of Long Island. ...providing access to midtown Manhattan in under 30 minutes.

To accomplish airport to Midtown in under 30 minutes, either the LIRR frequencies are going to jump to 5-6 TPH, or the 7 express is going to be running all the time like it did until the mid 00s. Maybe even weekend expresses (once all this CBTC is done).

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(1461074)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jan 3 21:44:05 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by sitechboy on Wed Jan 3 16:53:02 2018.

because ferries, while very pleasant in good weather, are expensive on a perrider basis.

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(1461080)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 3 21:53:14 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 3 21:15:10 2018.

LGa is backwards.
If anything, a route along the Van Eyck from the JFK route and Grand Central to a station within the sunnyside yard new LIRR station (making this a sweet transfer station).

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(1461081)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Jan 3 21:53:31 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

I don't believe anyone here has ever discussed a subway to Red Hook, and we have floated innumerable ideas here. Even Wallyhorse has never suggested a subway to Red Hook. The governor should only be allowed to suggest ideas that have already been reviewed here.

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(1461084)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 3 21:57:39 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 3 21:53:14 2018.

Once I realized you meant Grand Central Parkway (rather than station) this clicked :). Yes, that is far better plan. But, it would hinge on opening with ESA. Cuomo cannot take credit for ESA, and will likely not be in office when it is done, therefore it might as well not exist. Silly reason to have a sub par connection, but LGA is a sub par airport, so... meh.

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(1461109)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by ntrainride on Thu Jan 4 03:01:27 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 3 21:04:57 2018.

red hook? red-icoulous. now, extending the hillside avenue line to the city line...that works. hell, run it down hempstead turnpike to belmont park. get really metrocentric, go to hempstead.

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(1461111)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Jan 4 03:26:38 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 3 16:11:52 2018.

Build a cross over so the Crosstown can connect to Court Street and extend from Court Street.

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(1461158)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 4 13:23:24 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by N6 Limited on Thu Jan 4 03:26:38 2018.

The infrastructure alignments in the area won’t permit it.

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(1461188)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 4 15:24:01 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 3 21:04:57 2018.

The phase 4 section should have been built along with phase one.
As an extension of the 6th ave subway to lower Manhattan, the line would use Water St and connect with both Cranberry and Montague tubes. The Nassau St line could be redirected via a new rail connection from uptown via the lower east side, while Jamaica line trains uptown via Chrystie St and 8th ave.

A new LRT surface line could use part of the Centre St loop/Nassau St route to replace rerouted J line trains.

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(1461189)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 4 15:24:03 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 3 21:04:57 2018.

The phase 4 section should have been built along with phase one.
As an extension of the 6th ave subway to lower Manhattan, the line would use Water St and connect with both Cranberry and Montague tubes. The Nassau St line could be redirected via a new rail connection from uptown via the lower east side, while Jamaica line trains uptown via Chrystie St and 8th ave.

A new LRT surface line could use part of the Centre St loop/Nassau St route to replace rerouted J line trains.

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(1461226)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jan 4 20:35:37 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 3 21:57:39 2018.

"...but LGA is a sub par airport, so... meh. "

Having a mass/rapid transit connection would change that big time.
Here's another wishful thinking idea on a rail link to LGA. Run service from NYP up the NEC to a new spur built from the line right before the Hell Gate Bridge approach to run down the middle of GCP to the airport. With ESA moving some trains to GCT, that might free up a few more spots to allow the service to & from NYP.
A win win all around. Connections to Amtrak, NJT & LIRR and the subways.
Whack the airlines with a small surcharge & sell bonds to finance it.
The airlines can well afford a small surcharge nowadays. When the price of fuel went up, they passed the increase to the customer. What happened when the price of fuel dropped. Did they lower ticket prices?? I think not. With extra fees on everything & turning flight crowds into near subway discomfort, the airlines should be called out for thieves that they are. Time to pay the tab, flyboys!

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(1461230)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by pragmatist on Thu Jan 4 21:02:28 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jan 4 20:35:37 2018.

As long as LGA only 2 7000' main runways that intersect, it will never be a very good airport for the volume it is expected to handle. Of course, closing Rikers would give some options years into the future that don't exist now.

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(1461245)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jan 4 23:05:34 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by pragmatist on Thu Jan 4 21:02:28 2018.

They can accomplish it with bigger planes, but not too big. The low hanging fruit is replacing the regional jets (unless they can squeeze a small runway for them in there somewhere) with mainline aircraft.

Then there's the already popular flights. Boeing is rumored to be restarting their 767 passenger line. The 767 fits the niche between the largest 737 and A321, and the smallest 787 / A330. The engines aren't ginormous so they don't take up more slots than single aisle planes.

If the domestic airlines make these aircraft changes, they can increase passenger counts at LGA without any need for infrastructure changes.

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(1461268)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 5 07:22:08 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jan 4 20:35:37 2018.

That sounds like a good idea to me.

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(1461270)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 5 07:46:51 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook - and Woodbury Common station and LGA Airtrain, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jan 3 21:15:10 2018.

A Laguardia Airtrain makes more sense running between the airport and Astoria Blvd on the BMT down the GCP. Running it to Willets Pt is moving people in the wrong direction.

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(1461341)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by The Queen on Sat Jan 6 03:50:54 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Jan 3 21:04:57 2018.

Extend the J or use the bellmouth at Whitehall St for the W
Make a stop at Govenors Island, then continue to Red Hook

=)

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(1461447)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 6 22:18:20 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by The Queen on Sat Jan 6 03:50:54 2018.

Extending the J might not work since the relay tracks are above the Montague St tunnel level but the Whl bellmouths should work.

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(1461514)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 18:47:52 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by ntrainride on Thu Jan 4 03:01:27 2018.

If he wants to build an overpriced river crossing, how about a bridge from Westchester to Long Island. Extend 287 over it.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Jan 7 19:03:41 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 18:47:52 2018.

Heh, Cuomo actually did propose that in his speech.

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(1461528)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 7 20:34:50 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 18:47:52 2018.

Great idea, but the NIMBYS on the north shore of Nassau County have very big mouths & even bigger checkbooks and political clout. I hope someday they discover radon gasses out their under those rich snoots properties. Teach them a good lesson!!
That bridge has been proposed many times before & shot down every time. Where's Robert Moses when you really need him??

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(1461529)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Jan 7 20:38:16 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 7 20:34:50 2018.

If the Rye crossing is ever built, it may need to be a tunnel to sneak past the NIMBYs, unless they become NUMBYs.

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(1461534)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 21:07:04 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Jan 7 20:38:16 2018.

I'm picturing a bridge-tunnel. Bridge right up to the shore, then tunnel under the towns until meeting I495. The people of Nassau have no ability to affect the part over the water.

The bridge doesn't even need to be that wide - 2 lanes each direction, with shoulders on each side that could be taken for expansion in a pinch. About as wide as one span of the new Tappan Zee.

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(1461541)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by pragmatist on Sun Jan 7 22:11:01 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 21:07:04 2018.

2 lanes would be inadequate since the crossing would handle a very large volume of truck traffic that now comes in/out and goes over the TNB The expressway already exists (the Seaford-Oyster Bay)

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(1461545)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 22:19:20 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by pragmatist on Sun Jan 7 22:11:01 2018.

I read a bit of the Cuomo plan, it's either a single 2+2 tunnel or two 3 lane tunnels. Bridges seem to have been taken off the table (but bridge-tunnel is viable).

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(1461547)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by pragmatist on Sun Jan 7 22:29:56 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 22:19:20 2018.

The original bridge plan was 2 lanes in each direction, and that was 50 years ago. With today's traffic volumes I can't believe someone would even propose it today as a joke.

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(1461549)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jan 7 22:40:43 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 22:19:20 2018.

A tunnel that long (about 6 miles) would likely cause driver fatigue, and therefore accidents. It would have to be built with some way to combat that in mind. At a minimum, have mileposts so people can keep have an idea of where they are. If possible, maybe have build an island in the middle with part of the route on its surface, and two shorter tunnels connecting the shores to the island.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 22:52:14 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jan 7 22:40:43 2018.

Yup, that would be the bridge tunnel option (which is also cheaper). Thanks to the tunnel part the bridge really need only be a causeway.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 7 23:03:55 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jan 7 20:34:50 2018.

Moses was NEVER needed.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 8 00:36:58 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 7 22:52:14 2018.

Sort of a variation of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel.

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(1461566)

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 8 00:44:07 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Jan 7 23:03:55 2018.

I have mentioned in a few post relative to Moses that it’s too bad we didn't have a person like that who would have done for mass transit what he did for highways. The IND second system and possibly even more might have been built. Someone like that probably would have been able to get the Astoria Line extended to Laguardia Airport and the Rocky Bch branch through Queens built directly to what’s now Kennedy Airport.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by pragmatist on Mon Jan 8 08:55:57 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 8 00:36:58 2018.

The original bridge design had to allow for clearance in a large span of 135 foot minimum (like the East River Bridges) for a commercial traffic channel. Side spans to accommodate large volumes of recreational and lower height commercial traffic. If you have an island, you would still have to provide for navigation channels. Coast Guard approvals are required for any design.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 8 09:48:22 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by randyo on Mon Jan 8 00:44:07 2018.

Yes, the temptation tpo want a dicvtator whofavors one's agenda is always lurking. That said, Moses entire history is a disservice to the city.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Jan 8 17:39:55 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Jan 3 21:53:31 2018.

Actually, this came up in September 2016:


AECOM to propose No. 1 train extension to Red Hook




It was proposed by AECOM.

AECOM's vice chairman (and a boardmember) is Dan Tishman.

Tishman is a top donor to Cuomo.

They worked together on Tappan Zee and the NYC area airport makeovers.

Their fathers were close to each other.



Hint, hint, hint...




Deconstructing Tishman

......[Dan] Tishman, who serves as vice chairman and a board member at AECOM, is now the key go-between for the multinational engineering giant and its clients. The publicly traded Los Angeles-based firm acquired his family’s company, Tishman Construction, seven years ago and renamed it AECOM Tishman.

But while Tishman’s government and real estate connections are a major boon to AECOM as it grows its construction outfit and takes on larger projects, his close ties to Cuomo have drawn criticism on more than one occasion. His political alliances also have dragged him into the ongoing feud between Albany and City Hall and sparked accusations of pay-to-play.

Of course, being a major political contributor or having personal ties to a high-level politician doesn’t necessarily mean that an individual or company receives special favors. Yet John Kaehny, executive director of watchdog group Reinvent Albany, noted that situations like these — where a major contributor’s company snags big public contracts — are endemic in the state, largely due to its lack of a pay-to-play law.

“It’s no doubt that you want the governor to be your friend rather than an enemy if you’re competing for a big contract,” he said.

Kaehny referred to Tishman as an “active participant” in New York’s pay-to-play culture, but emphasized that he would be more of an exception if he weren’t. The industry scion, he also noted, is a “large contributor, but not the largest.”

At an Empire State Development meeting in May 2016, a city official called into question Tishman’s ties with the governor. The incident occurred moments before AECOM Tishman was awarded two small contracts totaling just over $8 million for planning and preconstruction work at the Jacob K. Javits Center to prepare it for a $1 billion-plus overhaul.

The construction company couldn’t outright bid on the Javits expansion, since it was part of the original team that built the convention center in the 1980s. But Tishman’s involvement quickly became a proxy for the battle between the governor and mayor.

Peter Wertheim, an ESD board member and advisor to Deputy Mayor Alicia Glen, noted that the company already has a role in the project and that Tishman is one of Cuomo’s top donors. Tishman and his wife, Sheryl, have given $323,625 to the governor since 2007. Wertheim noted that ESD had halted a city-run project at Brooklyn Bridge Park just days before the meeting over concerns that the developer donated to Mayor Bill de Blasio.

“To me, it feels interesting to sit here and be asked to vote on an $8 million contract for one of the governor’s largest donors,” Wertheim said at the time. “This whole process to me is feeling like there’s a lot of subjectivity in how decisions are being made.”

Nearly a year later, ESD approved increasing the Javits contract to $95 million, in order to upgrade AECOM Tishman’s role on the project to the construction manager at risk, which means the company will oversee the project’s various subcontractors. Wertheim didn’t speak out against the contract in that meeting......



......Tishman’s ties to Cuomo stem, in part, from the fact that their fathers were friends and had traveled together in the 1980s.

“We don’t vacation together, but he has no issues calling me, and I have no issues calling him,” he said. “And I’m happy that he can call me and say, ‘Listen, Dan, I need some help on infrastructure.’”

Projects the two have worked on together include the reconstruction of the Tappan Zee Bridge and the redesign and rehabilitation of the city’s airports. In January 2015, Cuomo tapped Tishman to chair a panel charged with creating a master plan for LaGuardia and JFK. Officials broke ground on the $4 billion overhaul of LaGuardia in June, and the governor unveiled the panel’s plans for JFK this January......


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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Mon Jan 8 19:03:33 2018, in response to Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Jan 3 08:58:14 2018.

Extension of 2nd Avenue Subway from Hanover Square to Red Hook via Whitehall Street Station (R)/ South Ferry (1) and new Tunnel into Red Hook, Brooklyn with a Station on Governors Island mid river.

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Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook

Posted by randyo on Tue Jan 9 18:29:04 2018, in response to Re: Forget 2nd Ave. Now Subway to Red Hook, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Jan 8 17:39:55 2018.

I’m not sure that the #1 So/Fy station is deep enough to be connected to any sort of underwater tube, but the bellmouths on the BMT S/O Whl St certainly are and a subway to Red Hook could certainly become part of an extension of the SAS.

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