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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:53:13 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 14 13:08:26 2015. WTF? Where have I complained about any of them. I was agreeing it's no big deal. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jan 14 14:54:00 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 13 11:41:07 2015. " ...historic Yankee Stadium "Historic Yankee Stadium hasn't been here since 1975 |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:55:19 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 14 13:30:48 2015. Yeah, actually, Citifield is just a walk across the parking lot, and Yankee Stadium is just at the bottom of a stairway basically.Of course Citifield has direct LIRR access, although I always took the 7 from Woodside, as it runs better than the LIRR. Yankee Stadium is a pain in the ass from Long Island points by train (have to take the subway for a longer ride and the LIRR), but people still do it all the time. They would do the same for MSG |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:56:16 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 14 13:22:46 2015. LOL, yeah NOW they renovate the DUMP after loosing their major tenant. Assholes. |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 15:07:56 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by pragmatist on Wed Jan 14 13:48:46 2015. Football thrives away from city centers because it's a different atmosphere for football. Tailgating is part of the football experience. Not so much for other sports, and especially not on the scale of football. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 15:08:51 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jan 14 14:54:00 2015. It still was the same field. |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 14 16:14:43 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:56:16 2015. they put up a vote in Nassau County and voters did not want to fund a new arena.so the county accepted bids to manage the venue and it came down to Barclays Center or MSG. Barclays won by offering some Islanders home games, a Nets pre-season, and major renovations. |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 14 16:34:10 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 14 14:24:20 2015. I'm referring to MSG, not necessarily Queens.People take those buses because they're free with a transfer from the subway. If they actually had to pay another fare, they may figure something else out. People in Marine Park (B2 / B100 territory) would routinely walk over a mile to the Brighton Line to avoid the bus fare, before free bus-subway transfers were introduced. For me it would depend on the weather. On a good day I would easily walk 2 to 2.5 miles to save a fare. On bad weather days, like the current cold spell, I'd max out at 1 to 1.5. Another factor is if I just missed a bus. Too bad BusTime wasn't around back then. |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Jan 14 16:41:31 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 15:07:56 2015. Very true, also tv money is king in football, it is a better game for tv than other sports. You are home once every 2 weeks, not 2-3 times in a week. Makes it a special event. |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jan 14 18:16:40 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:55:19 2015. "...but people still do it all the time. "Correct, with minimal bitching & outcry for a better mass transit option. LIRR to Woodside, #7 to GCT, #4 to the stadium. A snap. If you have a few spare bucks, MN trains from GCT direct to the Ballpark. That "Yankees-153d St" station should have been built long before it was |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 14 18:43:08 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Tue Jan 13 20:32:56 2015. YES, they announce ALL Amtrak and NJT train.Amtrak would MOVE, yes, MOVE to Moynihan. Don't expect announcements in the upper concourse any more than than in the LIRR concourse. Don't expect Amtrak monitors to remain in the upper concourse any more than in the LIRR concourse. Those are the plans. YOU stop smoking an making assumptions about "apps" to defeat the purpose of what they are trying to do, which is to MOVE to Moynihan. Can you comprehend that ? ? ? |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 14 18:54:16 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 14 14:53:13 2015. You may not have, but others in this thread have implied that some people might. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Wed Jan 14 23:57:08 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 14 18:43:08 2015. No. You're completely wrong. Where are coming up with this garbage? Why are you making yourself look so stupid? |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jan 15 00:06:29 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 14 16:34:10 2015. People in Marine Park (B2 / B100 territory) would routinely walk over a mile to the Brighton Line to avoid the bus fare, before free bus-subway transfers were introduced.'F that. When I lived there I took the B2 or whatever to the Brighton Line. I wasn't gonna walk that. Of course I had an unlimited metrocard. G-d bless the MTA. Best deal in the City. For me it would depend on the weather. On a good day I would easily walk 2 to 2.5 miles to save a fare. On bad weather days, like the current cold spell, I'd max out at 1 to 1.5. Another factor is if I just missed a bus.Wow, you're HARD CORE. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 03:47:50 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 13 05:43:36 2015. I know what you meant.It was done over three years and done very well from what I understand. The ceiling is iconic and as you say can't be replaced (or copied in a new MSG). What is amazing is in the middle of the next decade, the current MSG will have actually been in that location longer than the old Penn Station building was. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 04:04:03 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 13 16:02:26 2015. The current MSG has competed with the Nassau Coliseum (second oldest building in use in the NHL until after this season) since 1972 and the IZOD Center (originally Brendan Byrne Arena) since 1981. While they may not have had competition when it was built, Gulf + Western (which owned the Knicks, Rangers and MSG when the current MSG opened in 1968 I believe) knew that competition was coming, especially as concerts were needing bigger venues than before.MSG where it is will likely continue to be important, and yes, it could get to 75. As noted, by mid-next decade, the current MSG will actually have been there LONGER than original Penn Station was, something I'm sure many can't fathom. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jan 15 04:17:42 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 04:04:03 2015. But the opening of Barclays really bothers MSG. It's their toughest competition ever.Bothers them so much they bought an arena in Los Angeles to compete with parent company AEG. People, (Joe V, Terrapin Station and Spider-Pig) think MSG could be moved a few blocks away or even further away. Others compare the situation to Yankee Stadium. No franchise has as rich a history as Yankees in South Bronx. Now more than ever, MSG can't move. It has to stay on top of a transit hub to compete, especially with Barclays. Prudential is close to NJT too. Maybe three blocks. Nassau Coliseum will get lots of concerts that can't fit in MSG and Barclays busy schedules. God bless that arena. I love that place. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Jan 15 07:17:40 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 04:04:03 2015. RIP IZOD CenterAt least for now in its current state. Crisco couldn't wait huh? |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 15 08:27:58 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Wed Jan 14 18:43:08 2015. Where does it say all of that in writing? |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 15 08:30:30 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jan 15 04:17:42 2015. Nassau Coliseum is a total dump. It should have been replaced. The idea of the location is great....the arena itself is a complete dump. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 15 08:32:35 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Jan 15 07:17:40 2015. Just yesterday, Luch said Nassau Coliseum will have no problem after the Islanders leave because look at IZOD after the Nets and Devils left. Well yeah, look. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jan 15 08:39:18 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 15 08:32:35 2015. IZOD competes with a new venue just a few miles away. The NENJ market.Nassau Coliseum is for Long Islanders. If a new venue opened in Nassau or Suffolk, then Coliseum would be doomed. IZOD had been doing well, attracting major tours like Disney, Marvel, Globetrotters. It was still a must-stop venue. But it needs millions in renovations and it's an old venue. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Thu Jan 15 09:29:18 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jan 15 04:17:42 2015. People, (Joe V, Terrapin Station and Spider-Pig) think MSG could be moved a few blocks away or even further away.WRONG. But thanks for trolling. We think it could be moved a few (long) blocks away without significantly affecting anything. But not "further" away than that. Prudential is close to NJT too. Maybe three blocks.Three long blocks, not three short blocks. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 15 15:04:39 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jan 15 08:39:18 2015. IZOD would be a great site for a North Jersey casino complex! Atlantic City is dying, and NY State keeps dancing around where to put its southern casinos. What say ye? |
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Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jan 15 16:45:50 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jan 14 18:16:40 2015. Is that railroad station helpful besides for those coming down from "up"-state? I have never even considered the possibility of using MN as a substitute for the 4 train between GCT and the stadium. In fact, I may not do that even if the fare was identical. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:36:29 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Wed Jan 14 23:57:08 2015. Hey Stupid:Read this: http://www.nec-commission.com/cin_projects/moynihan-station-phase-two-new-york-penn-station-capacity-expansion/ " In Phase 2, above ground, the Farley Post Office will be converted into a full-scale, intercity passenger rail terminal, including the construction of ticketing facilities, waiting areas, retail amenities, and access points to tracks and platforms. When Phase 2 is complete, Amtrak’s current station operations and primary boarding area would be RELOCATED to Moynihan Station." |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:37:43 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 15 08:27:58 2015. See above. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Jan 15 19:13:46 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:36:29 2015. Pwned |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jan 15 19:23:53 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:36:29 2015. primary boarding areaPrimary implies the existence of a secondary boarding area. And where might the secondary boarding area be? Maybe just east of 8th Ave., one level down? I have no idea, but it sounds plausible. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 19:29:32 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 14 13:12:22 2015. Right:A new MSG on 9th-10th Avenues and 28th-30th Streets would work, especially if you build an additional station on the (7) at 28th Street (with entrances at 28th, 29th and 30th Streets) that can serve as the terminal for the (7). Between an additional (7) station south of 34th Street, a possible entrance to Moynahan station at 31st Street and 9th Avenue (and even perhaps an underground passageway between the northeast entrance of a new MSG on 9th/30th and a southwest entrance of Moynahan Station at 9th/31st) and some people simply walking over from what would be the southwest exit of a new MSG on 28th/9th to the (1) at 28th/7th and possibly having the 25th Street entrances reopened on the 8th Avenue line to serve MSG customers as well, a new MSG there can very easily work and give those who want the old Penn Station rebuilt at least SOME of what they want (as I would do it, a smaller version of the old building west of Two Penn Plaza with the grand entrance on 8th Avenue, but keeping the existing 7th Avenue entrances as well). |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 19:59:52 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Jan 13 14:59:35 2015. Yes, but in the end, they decided to renovate the current MSG.As said, there already have been suggestions of 28th-30th and 9th-10th Avenues for a new MSG. Put that there, couple it with an addition (7) station from 28th-30th Streets, a passageway between a new MSG and Moynahan Station underground from 30th-31st on 9th Avenue and opening up full-time the 25th Street entrances/exits on the 8th Avenue Line and it definitely can work. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:13:51 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by AlM on Thu Jan 15 19:23:53 2015. pwn3d |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:15:39 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:36:29 2015. Doesn't mean shit, dildo-brain. They're not going to close the current staircases. If you have an Amtrak ticket and you're not a complete idiot, you'll board from the nearest staircase. If you're coming from east of 8th Ave, you're not going to go to Moynihan just to end up on the same platform! |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:16:04 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by italianstallion on Thu Jan 15 19:13:46 2015. Not at all. You really should trust me more. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:16:24 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:37:43 2015. WRONG. That's NOT what it says. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 19:59:52 2015. Last winter I was at a meeting at the Transit Museum where there was a speaker talking about the ridership counts, and another speaker talked about a book on subway history. At the close of the meeting, questions from the audience was taken.One of the questions dealt with the major transit problems that occurred at the Belmont RaceTrack and during the Super-Bowl in New Jersey when many transit riders found that they had to wait hours in order to take public transit home, after attending those events. Each of these events were discussed in major detail on this forum at the time. In any case during the question and answer session, the point made by the MTA staffer was that with the all of the public transit options available at Madison Square Garden - there is simply no way that venue would suffer such a public transit fiasco. In this message stream several ideas were floated about moving MSG to another location. I simply do not understand the reasoning for shooting ourselves in the foot with suggestions of moving a major destination to places that are basic transit deserts? The Jacob Javits Center has often been talked about as being in the middle of no-where on 11th Avenue. That was the major complaint from the day it opened! So let's move the MSG to the far Westside where there isn't transit - as a really good bright idea! (Yes, that is sarcasm!) While we're at it let's move Radio City Music Hall it's an old auditorium! There are a few other old buildings that should be moved just because they're old! Yes, it's a good idea to build large venues in places that are difficult to get to. Great city planning guys! And yes, I have been following along this discussion. You may continue your petty bickering. Mike |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Jan 16 02:42:08 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 15 18:37:43 2015. Again, where does it say you couldn't board from the old area? Do you not see "primary" in what you quoted? How did you change that to mean "exclusive"?? |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jan 16 03:32:27 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015. Great post. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jan 16 07:36:42 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015. + 1,000,000 |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Jan 16 08:55:57 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015. You haven't heard about the new subway station opening up next to Javits?You also aren't aware that the percentage of people using Penn Station each day that are associated with MSG is tiny???? No one is suggesting to move MSG to a transit desert. Please reread the thread. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 16 09:07:55 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 04:04:03 2015. G&W did not own any part of MSG until 1977. A simple Google search confirms this. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jan 16 09:22:20 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Jan 16 08:55:57 2015. No one is suggesting to move MSG to a transit desert. Please reread the thread.But to compare a location by ONE subway line, to what is available at 33rd st between 7th and 8th aves, is like comparing a duck pond to the Atlantic Ocean! You also aren't aware that the percentage of people using Penn Station each day that are associated with MSG is tiny???? That is the absolute REVERSE of what you should be asking, which is - What is the percentage of people using MSG that end up using either NJT, the LIRR, or the idiot - learn how to actually use statistics that truly mean sonething |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 16 11:43:10 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015. No! MSG should not be moved because it's old but it should be moved because doing so would rectify an act of pure vandalism. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Jan 16 12:14:00 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jan 16 09:22:20 2015. But to compare a location by ONE subway line, to what is available at 33rd st between 7th and 8th aves, is like comparing a duck pond to the Atlantic Ocean!Yes, if you're all the way on 12th Ave. But no one intelligent is suggesting to move MSG to the site of Javits. If you read all the recent threads, it was suggested that it could move within 3 long blocks or so. So figure to between 10th and 11th, not between 11th and 12th. That is the absolute REVERSE of what you should be asking, which is - What is the percentage of people using MSG that end up using either NJT, the LIRR, or the threeFOUR major subway trunk lines that are either right there, or a short block away? (actually FIVE if you want to count PATH) idiot - learn how to actually use statistics that truly mean sonethingHey "idiot", why should we be asking what is best for MSG if MSG is a tiny component of Penn Station? We should be asking what is best for all the other users of Penn Station, and for this area of Manhattan as a whole. What is best would be MSG gone so the station can be remade. MSG could move close by so the people arriving at Penn Station can easily walk to the new location and not have to use additional public transit resources. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Jan 16 12:32:53 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Jan 16 12:14:00 2015. When the original deals were made, this was private property. I know Amtrak owns the station, I don't know the status of the rest of the block, or the air rights above. If you couldn't reach a deal, and used eminent domain proceedings, the settlement would likely be gigantic. In todays economic climate it will be difficult (not impossible) to get this done. The Garden will move when an economically satisfactory arrangement is made, not because we don't like the marginal at best station underneath it. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Jan 16 12:43:19 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by pragmatist on Fri Jan 16 12:32:53 2015. I think you're misunderstanding the situation. MSG is granted an operating license from the City of New York. If the operating license for the location on top of Penn Station is not renewed by the City of New York, then MSG would have to shut down, AFAIK. Instead of shutting down, if there is an alternate solution, such as moving to a new location nearby, I assume that's what the owners would choose to do. So it has nothing to do with eminent domain. The operating license would be the way to kick out MSG.The City of New York recently renewed MSG's license for 10 more years. So expect this issue to come up again in 5 years or so, which is around when they'd need to start seriously planning if they are going to move out. They are probably already looking into sites. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 16 13:45:13 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 16 11:43:10 2015. But isn't that akin to doing economics based on sunk costs?Yes, Penn Station was vandalized. But the perp is no longer with us (being a deceased corporate citizen, or at least bankrupt). So the cost is upon us taxpayers and transportation users. Do we want to spend $2 billion on rebuilding Penn Station, or do we want to spend it on new transportation capabilities? We don't have the choice of putting a gun to the head of Penn Central Corp. and telling them to do it or else we'll shoot. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Jan 16 13:53:00 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Jan 16 12:43:19 2015. The permit to operate an arena is different from owning the building or the right to occupy the property. 2 Penn is also in play. That is why I mentioned eminent domain. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the present Mayor and City Council likely will all be gone and there is nothing that stops future politicians from extending. |
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Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 16 14:19:00 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 15 19:59:52 2015. there already have been suggestions of 28th-30th and 9th-10th Avenues for a new MSGThat's gotta make Lincoln Tunnel traffic a bit more interesting! |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 18:36:48 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:16:04 2015. YOU know NOTHING.It did not say "alternate boarding area", nor "option". It said "RELOCATED" = "MOVED" Now get lost, TROLL. |
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