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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed May 9 20:15:31 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by J trainloco on Tue May 8 21:34:01 2012.

"Considering what was just done on the Atlantic Avenue El, any thought that the existing Rockaway beach Branch's existing structure can be used as is without extensive modifications is a dream."

Excellent observation.



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(1155604)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed May 9 20:22:05 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 17:05:22 2012.

"Shoulda settled for escalators at Hunterspoint Av and called it a day."

One has to wonder if that would have been a more cost-effective approach, if not glitzy. Maybe an escalator with a waterfall down the middle would have taken care of the need for glamour. Then a marble, enclosed passageway to the 7... all for maybe $50 million instead of billions.



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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:41:17 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed May 9 20:22:05 2012.

Believe or not I am not joking. That was THEIR plan in the mid-1980's

They went so far as to plop a diamond east of the platform for eventual scissor crossovers. And they published their plans in a drop-seat newsletter, which was to build another platform on the north side, have a more direct pedestrian overpass over Amtrak Line 2, and punch a hole into the side of the subway station mezzanine.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line


(1155615)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:55:16 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed May 9 20:15:31 2012.

Rebuilding a steel el or rolling in a new street overpass is relatively easy. The Manhasset Viaduct was also replaced beam by beam. The concrete structures in Valley Stream, Lynbrook, and Rockville Center were all extensively repaired in the 1980's.

What I am worried about is learning of this tree-root situation. That could make the entire embankment for the 3 miles entirely useless. It may have to be all carted off and replaced with new fill, or make the whole thing an el. If so, forget the whole thing.

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(1155625)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed May 9 21:32:21 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:55:16 2012.

It wouldn't have to be carted off, and it's far from useless, but it would have to be completely ripped apart, tree roots and wood removed, and reset. If they leave the roots in, as they rot, it will create sinkholes.

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(1155631)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed May 9 21:56:04 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 12:52:08 2012.

That is incorrect. The MTA DOES own the land the Rockaway line is on from Liberty Junction to Rockaways, as well as lines like the M line which is over ROW instead of street, such as the M train el from Onderdonk Ave (just north of Seneca station) to Metropolitan Ave.

The Rockaway line (abandoned part) from Whitepot to Liberty junction is owned by the City of New York.

Here's the tax record of ownership for the Rockaway Line South of Liberty Junction:

Borough QN
Tax Block 14147
Tax Lot 14
ZIP Code 11414
Address 102 STREET

Owner Name CNY/NYCTA
Ownership Type
House No 347
Street MADISON AVE
Apartment No
City NEW YORK
State NY
ZIP Code 10017-3706
Last Updated 9999-12-31
Billee Name CNY/MTA

The tax record for north of Liberty Junction, the abandoned part, is quite different:

Borough QN
Tax Block 9075
Tax Lot 12
ZIP Code 0
Address 97 AVENUE

Owner Name DCAS
Ownership Type C
House No 1
Street CENTRE ST
Apartment No RM 2000N
City NEW YORK
State NY
ZIP Code 10007-1604
Last Updated 2008-08-19
Billee Name D C A S

DCAS stands for Department of Citywide Administative Services.

Here's a sample of the M train ROW ownership:

Borough QN
Tax Block 3502
Tax Lot 6
ZIP Code 11385
Address FOREST AVENUE

Owner Name CNY/NYCTA
Ownership Type
House No 347
Street MADISON AVE
Apartment No
City NEW YORK
State NY
ZIP Code 10017-3706
Last Updated 9999-12-31
Billee Name CNY/MTA

Here's an sample example of the Brighton Line, also private ROW, and also owned by the NYCTA:

Borough BK
Tax Block 8765
Tax Lot 32
ZIP Code 0
Address NEPTUNE AVENUE

Owner Name NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT
Ownership Type C
House No 370
Street JAY ST
Apartment No
City BROOKLYN
State NY
ZIP Code 11201-3814
Last Updated 2010-06-16
Billee Name NYC TRANSIT AUTHORITY



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(1155634)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed May 9 21:58:57 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:10:36 2012.

But does the LIRR even want the Rockaway Beach Line back? They certainly don't seem to.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 9 22:19:07 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed May 9 09:40:58 2012.

Then according to you, then the bridges above all those streets should've collapsed. So tell me more about things I don't know. I look at the bridges I don't see the crumbling concrete, holes through the steel beams that you said would be happening. So tell me what I don't see or know. Please...

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 9 22:22:33 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 13:35:10 2012.

I see lots of cars on Queens Blvd too, and lots of cars on manhattan streets and they all are served by subway lines... whats your point? That was a horrible argument to use.

Just because theres a potential for a line there doesn't mean there should be one built. No way should we build a line that could handle the entire rush hour crowd on 2 full length trains.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed May 9 23:40:28 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:10:36 2012.

I don't think so Joe.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 23:51:56 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 9 22:22:33 2012.

You couldnt be more wrong.
you are making it seem like the ONLY RIDERS will be travelers between Rego Park and Howard Beach..!

Yeah..and you will continue to see "lots of cars" on those streets..
People that own them are hard pressed to give up personal transportation in lue of a crowded subway car or bus..but if it saves them on wear and tear..time and trouble..then they are smart commuters to use the subways...which as you can also see especially on the LEXINGTON AVENUE..QUEENS BLVD and plenty of other subway route even outside of the peak periods. Your self imposed limiting is reaching in the least..sabotage at most..something I find disturbing.

Shortsightedness got us into this transportation wasteland where services are needed...Thinly veiled "NIMBY-ISM" on your part aside,investing IN out transportation bring people together..takes folks to places of interest..to jobs..to play...not to mention,but I will anyway,close a gap in the network that serves as a barrier to both sides of Queens County.

My question to you..is what person stake do you have invested in this not to see it operational again?

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 23:54:58 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 9 22:22:33 2012.

You couldnt be more wrong.
you are making it seem like the ONLY RIDERS will be travelers between Rego Park and Howard Beach..!

Yeah..and you will continue to see "lots of cars" on those streets..
People that own them are hard pressed to give up personal transportation in lue of a crowded subway car or bus..but if it saves them on wear and tear..time and trouble..then they are smart commuters to use the subways...which as you can also see especially on the LEXINGTON AVENUE..QUEENS BLVD and plenty of other subway route even outside of the peak periods. Your self imposed limiting is reaching in the least..sabotage at most..something I find disturbing.

Shortsightedness got us into this transportation wasteland where services are needed...Thinly veiled "NIMBY-ISM" on your part aside,investing IN out transportation bring people together..takes folks to places of interest... AIRPORTS..to jobs..to play...not to mention,but I will anyway,close a gap in the RAIL network that serves as a barrier to both sides of Queens County.

My question to you..is what personal stake do you have invested in this not to see it operational again?

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(1155668)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:02:14 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed May 9 21:56:04 2012.

No matter what you say..i know what i've read in the MTA charter..
they are a "leased"..they do not own any of the NYCTA PROPERTY..
the CITY OF NEW YORK owns it all..

the CITY can give them the boot at ANYTIME..and there's NOTHING they can do about it...exactly how Nassau kicked them out.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:05:28 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed May 9 21:58:57 2012.

The LIRR shouldnt even be in the equation. they care nothing for city riders.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 10 00:07:05 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed May 9 21:56:04 2012.

Which site did you get this from? I'd like to see it.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 00:11:24 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:02:14 2012.

Pssst! Check what "CNY" means. LOL

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:12:25 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 00:11:24 2012.

uhh huh..could that be.."City of New York"?

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 00:20:55 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:12:25 2012.

Mmmmmm ... could be. :)


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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 10 00:22:16 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 23:51:56 2012.

Simple, I look at the line, the cost, the # of people it would serve and if what's provided now is sufficient and I see that currently bus service handles service very well. Then I look at lines like the G which are able to handle the crowds with only 4 cars and go do we really need another G line? Nope it's not NIMBYism it's realism.

As for your first statement yes it will be mainly riders between Howard beach and Rego Park as most people are headed towards MANHATTAN and will mainly transfer for the more direct route.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:53:52 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 10 00:22:16 2012.

Good luck with that.I dont believe you've done the "research" you claim..if you did..you know better than to make assumptions concerning travel patterns of subway riders,potential or otherwise without the basic data to coincide. your overlooking several facts..

First, your not factoring in POTENTIAL RIDERSHIP generated from DIRECT MANHATTAN service via the Queens Blvd line or the LIRR MAIN LINE..to and from the Rockaways,avoiding the long jaunt via The Fulton st subway...Or the new traffic generated from the JFK connections..or the neighborhood riders that use to ride the Limited Q53 or 21 bus.

You TOTALLY left out any traffic from or to the Rockaways..transferring riders or ANY riders getting off or on at the new stations.

You are intentionally underplaying it in hopes that disinterest will dull the movement. Shamfull.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 05:51:16 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Tue May 8 19:44:49 2012.

I never said it was complicated, but it's something that has to be done. You have finally come around to admit that major work will probably be necessary on the bridges and infrastructure. And again, "inspections" or bare minimum maintenance so it doesn't fall to the street is not the same as maintenance if heavy trains were going over every 10 minutes.

As for the bridges at Atlantic....it's the same rusty lost paint bare steel that has been seen all over the line.


View Larger Map

And as for 97 Ave, if you look, you will see that the "fresh paint" on the left side of the street was done to remove graffiti on that side, as well as the overspan, where that business is located:


View Larger Map

If you pan over to the other side of the street, where that business is not located, it's full of graffiti, and no paint, and crumbling concrete and rusty metal. That paint was done similarly to how they cover over graffiti in the subway too and by that business under the structure on that side, not as "maintenance".


View Larger Map


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(1155697)

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:01:25 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed May 9 18:42:10 2012.

Ozone Park Station:

http://binged.it/JdxQcL

Two to four tracks. Happened right here, just before going into the Woodhaven Station, and the turnoff to the Brooklyn LIRR line. It's now paved right there because of the school bus company that rents that part of the ROW:

http://binged.it/Jiu0yw

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:02:35 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by randyo on Wed May 9 15:03:29 2012.

That is false. They own the Rockaway Line south of Liberty, the M line El, the Brighton Line, and others.


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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:11:11 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:53:52 2012.

British James (RailBlue/Kew Gardens Teleport) did a pretty thourough analysis on the stations of the Rockaway Line, I wish I bookmarked it.

The stations used were:

101 Ave (Former Ozone Park)
Atlantic Ave (Former Woodhaven)
Jamaica Ave (Former Brooklyn Manor)
Myrtle Ave
Union Turnpike
Metropolitan Ave (Former Parkside Station)
Yellowstone Blvd
Austin St/Rego Park

He then used comparisons to other stations with similar neighborhoods, using the TA's stats, and he did come up with relatively low use stations.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:12:47 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:02:14 2012.

Dude, those are from the OFFICIAL tax records. The NYCTA owns some of the lines, not the city. They ownership, and mailing address of owner is CLEAR.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:13:14 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Thu May 10 00:07:05 2012.

It's a password protected site.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:15:29 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:02:35 2012.

CNY owns NYCTA. MTA leases the property. City still owns the property. Looking at old tax records (even if updated, they're still the original "owner") and comparing them to later filings doesn't change the ownership. MTA is an authority, it is not a possessor.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:16:08 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 00:11:24 2012.

Pssst, see what it says next to that. It's in conjunction with the city, and the mailing address is the MTA's 347 Madison Ave address. THEY OWN IT. And look at the Brighton line, that is straight out NYCTA with the Jay ST NYCTA mailing Address.
The NYC owned part of the Rockaway Line comes up totally different with the Centre St address.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:19:04 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:16:08 2012.

I'm not going to argue with you. They are the ones who cut the checks. Doesn't mean they own it. But like I said, not my job to argue this. Believe whatever you wish.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:21:33 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:13:14 2012.

It's based out of http://www.lotinfo.com/, but obviously I can't give out my passwords, lol.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:26:34 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:19:04 2012.

And believe whatever you want. I have official data that states the ownership, and the billee name and address. And you ignored the Brighton Line which even has the NYCTA outright, the other one is the MTA.

The abandoned part of the Rockaway line is owned in entirety from Liberty junction to Whitepot by the DCAS, a completely different ownership, and city owned.

I don't have access to the Bronx or Manhattan records, only Brooklyn and Queens, and it only includes actual lots (such as private ROW). It doesn't include els, for example over a city street. I can search any line on private ROW, I just used the M line el and Brighton for examples.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:28:42 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:26:34 2012.

Just sayin', it sounds like the records show the original purchaser of records. The defining answer would be who pays taxes? Betcha nobody.

You SHOULD be aware though, that the New York City Transit Authority (NYCTA) went away in 1966'ish. Don't believe there was ever a bill of sale. But DO carry on ...

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:31:14 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:28:42 2012.

Wait ... that didn't come out right ... need to get some sleep. "Original purchaser" would indicate a sale. Suggests to me that they're simply carrying over older records even now. But property contact information isn't the same thing as a sale ... that would be the tax rolls that have that stuff.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:32:02 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by ClearAspect on Wed May 9 22:19:07 2012.

Then according to you, then the bridges above all those streets should've collapsed.

Stop trying to make the absurd. I never said they were ready to collapse. I also never stated they were structurally unsound. But just "safe" for pedestrians and cars riding under them doesn't mean they are safe having heavy trains running over them in both directions every 10 minutes either.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:34:56 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 17:08:26 2012.

The line makes way more sense as a subway line than as an LIRR line, especially at the time when they were converting it.
Unfortunately, the airport was not yet in full swing. If the line would have survived just 10 more years, it would have been the ultimate already in place airport line from Penn Station.
It's absolutely ASTONISHING that this line was allowed to rot, a line with a direct connection to the airport.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:36:02 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:10:36 2012.

All the stations on the Rockaway end were built BY THE LIRR, in anticipation of subway conversion.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:37:08 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed May 9 21:58:57 2012.

It wouldn't make any sense as an LIRR line, especially the Rockaway peninsula segment.
It only would have made sense as an LIRR line to JFK from penn Station. But at the time, the airport was just beginning to develop, and our politicians had now foresight.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:38:02 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:05:28 2012.

The LIRR is not a rapid transit line, it's a commuter railroad. The line would make no sense as such. It's why the line was dying even when the LIRR still had it. It screams rapid transit service, not commuter service.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:38:26 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by randyo on Wed May 9 18:18:35 2012.

Exactly.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:38:54 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:09:00 2012.

He is absolutely correct. When the line was rebuilt in the Rockaways, it was built with subway service in mind.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:43:37 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:28:42 2012.

It's NOT the original purchaser of records, it's the CURRENT ownership, and CURRENT situation on any lot in Brooklyn and Queens. If there was sale data, it would also be listed. It does NOT list tenants, leasees, and the like, only the OWNER.
I use this program every day (of course for normal lots, buildings, etc), if there was a building, it would tell you all the tax information like number of floors, lot size, and so forth. So you aren't going to tell me what the data "may mean", I KNOW what the data means.

Furthermore, the city doesn't pay taxes on their property, and neither does the MTA, they are publicly owned.

And you carry on.....

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:45:37 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:31:14 2012.

This IS the tax records. If the property was sold "last year", that is also public information, and that information would be listed too, as well as the current owner, and who was the former owner, and how much they paid for it.
The names listed are NOT the "original" owners and the like, it's always the CURRENT owner.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 06:59:16 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 10 06:15:29 2012.

You are wrong.

I can come up with plenty property owned by the MTA. I also have the ability to search by owner. Here's an example....the LIRR in Hollis. It won't copy and paste well, but you will get the info. There's more info, but I will copy/paste some of the relevant stuff:

Borough QN
Tax Block 10353
Tax Lot 208
ZIP Code 0
Address HOLLIS AVENUE

Address Districts Zoning Lot
Building LPC Maps/Links Tax value
Subway Sales Owner Permits
Owner Name METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY
Mailing Address:
Company: Mta & Lirr 347 Madison Ave Carrier Rte: C021
Own Ph#: New York, NY 10017-3706

Taxes Assessments Lot Description
Tax Class: 4 Land Value: $0 Acres: 0.03
Imp Value: $0 Lot Square Footage: 1500
Taxes: $0 Total Value: $0 Lot Frontage Feet: 60
Tax Year: Assessment Update Date: 12/9/2011 Lot Depth: 25
NYS Exemption: Data Update Date: 10/13/2009 Market Total Value: $0 Irregular: N


Property Characteristics
Property Class: U6 - Railroad Facility Land Use: Railroad F
Stories: 0 Univ Bldg Sqft: 0 Location Influence:
# Buildings: 0 Property Indic: Transport
Year Built: Garage: Park Type:
Effect Year Built: 0 Zoning: M1-1 Light Manufacturing - Hi Pe




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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Fred G on Thu May 10 07:10:14 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:02:14 2012.

"CNY/NYCTA" on an assessor's document means the City and the TA jointly own the property.

You can go to the Queens County Assessor and see same information.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:12:24 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Fred G on Thu May 10 07:10:14 2012.

Thanks Fred!

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:14:29 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:12:24 2012.

To add, the reason I used the other site is because the site I have access too is set up as a tax map, so you can click on lots and stuff and get the info. I know you know what a tax map is, but for those that don't understand what that is, it's like an aerial view of everything, and if you want to see who owns a particular lot, you would click on that lot, and the info comes up.
The public site you linked to has the same info, but you can't search from the air so to speak...haha.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by merrick1 on Thu May 10 07:14:37 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 10 00:53:52 2012.

What movement? This is a discussion by a bunch of transit geeks on a board that is read mostly by transit geeks.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:18:22 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by merrick1 on Thu May 10 07:14:37 2012.

Hahaha! Yeah, some people are taking a message board WAY too seriously. This is a discussion, and nothing more.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:21:57 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Fred G on Thu May 10 07:10:14 2012.

Thanks Fred for verifying my info! I don't know if you were "checking up" or not, but you can see I am not BSing. With the site I have access to you don't need the block and lot numbers or the address, you just click on the lot on the tax map, which then in turn gives you all the info on the public site you linked to. Of course, you had the added luxury of already having the lot and block number I provided, and as you shown, backs up my info posted.
This has been a fun discussion.

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Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Fred G on Thu May 10 07:36:05 2012, in response to Re: Best Article I've Read on Reasons to Reactivate the Rockaway Beach Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu May 10 07:14:29 2012.

I'm sure your ware is better but this was a good independent check. Besides, once I saw your printout I already knew.

your pal,
Fred

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