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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 11 16:34:09 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Feb 11 13:05:41 2020.

MTA or the residents?

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 11 17:34:07 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Feb 11 12:09:00 2020.

The buses would run so much faster if they didn't have to carry passengers and didn't have any bus stops.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 11 18:44:51 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 11 17:34:07 2020.

That is exactly how the MTA thinks. Harold Fisher once privately told a friends mine the subways could run on time if it wasn’t for those damn passengers.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 11 21:26:34 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 11 18:44:51 2020.

According to The Wave last Friday it looks like the Q53 May survive

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 12 12:11:00 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 11 21:26:34 2020.

They said that awhile ago. I think it was just put in so people should forget about the other bad parts of the plan.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 12 12:11:01 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 11 21:26:34 2020.

They said that awhile ago. I think it was just put in so people should forget about the other bad parts of the plan.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 12 17:26:45 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 11 21:26:34 2020.

Would they put the Q52 up for target practice instead ?

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 12 18:22:14 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Feb 11 21:26:34 2020.

Wave_Q53

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 13 13:29:23 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

Byford Town Hall without Byford

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There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

Forest Hills Post

My friend attended the Astoria CB Transportation Committee meeting, Thurs night. The two MTA reps didn’t even take notes, so how can they claim they are considering all comments?

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Feb 14 18:39:22 2020, in response to There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020.

Shocking

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BusRider on Fri Feb 14 18:47:10 2020, in response to There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020.

I wonder if that's why the Bronx was not as changed drastically.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 14 18:49:38 2020, in response to There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020.

I assume nothing came up about the northward extension of the Q10 from Kew Gardens ?

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 00:22:25 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusRider on Fri Feb 14 18:47:10 2020.

I really think the MTA was under pressure by DOT to cut MTA BusCo service to reduce the city subsidy. The MTA wants many new bus lanes and TSP. I guess DOT told them the only way they would have the money to pay for that is using the subsidy money for it. Why else would so many headways be cut and so many bus stops proposed to be removed? There is no other incentive for the MTA to cut service because it is all subsidized.

That's why NYCT was so angry at MTA Bus Co in 2010. Because they were forced to cut so much service in 2010, and MTA Bus cut very little service back then because they didn't have to because of the subsidy. How do I know NYCT was angry at MTA Bus? Because they told me.

Also, although they try to show a united front at public meetings, NYCT and DOT disagree on many things and squabble internally.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 08:00:28 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusRider on Fri Feb 14 18:47:10 2020.

I wonder if that's why the Bronx was not as changed drastically.

Not sure what you mean. Do you mean there was stronger pushback from the Bronx citizens, because I don't recall any Bronx bus network redesign plan as extensively disruptive as the Queens one. Do you mean because of the MTA Bus (former private lines) in Queens vs. the Bronx?

One more point:

Can posters please begin new threads when discussing this topic, rather than adding to the existing thread? It would make it a lot easier to navigate, instead of having to scroll through hundreds of old messages that roll off the right side of the web page. Thanks.


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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 08:30:43 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 08:00:28 2020.

The reason I am adding to the existing thread is so all the news articles can be in one place.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BusRider on Sat Feb 15 09:42:11 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 08:00:28 2020.

I mean if the Bronx had the same disruption as Queens, I would think the uproar would be too overwhelming both politically and for MTA at similar times. Work and meetings are currently on Queens, but the fight would still be going on possibly from the Bronx. It has been mentioned here in the past that the physical layout and topography of the Bronx limits such drastic change. But, I disagree to an extent.

Picking up from BrooklynBus, the relations with MTA Bus and lack of subway access compared to the other boroughs, Queens may have been “targeted” for this “clean-slate” service approach.

I’m interested to see how Brooklyn is redesigned as it has a similar area like Queens but has a greater level of subway service and minimal MTA Bus Co. influence.

Was once told, MTA could never do a borough wide restructuring because NYC is too complexed. If a time wasn’t a factor, I would have liked to see each borough be thoroughly examined on a yearly basis. That way this “clean-slate”‘approach would be easier on the eye and ones commute both from a passenger and the operating staff stand point.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 15 11:02:06 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 00:22:25 2020.

The MTABC budget does not come out of NYC DOT, but rather the miscellaneous budget. It would be OMB (or the comptroller) that would be seeking such reductions . . . unless DOT were to be acting as OMB's bulldog.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Feb 15 14:53:32 2020, in response to There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020.

There's are also two different routings in Forest Hills for the QT87 per the Queens Interactive Map which has the route traveling straight along 71st Avenue to and from Union Tpke. to Juno Street/Ingram Street then to Ascan Avenue while the draft plan has maintained the one way northbound Woodhaven Blvd./Metropolitan Avenue routing. Regarding the comment about the private roads n Forest Hills Gardens such as the QT87 traveling along Ascan Avenue it should be noted that no bus stops are being proposed and if cars can travel down those streets why can't buses? With regard to the QT60 not traveling into Manhattan there will be two other buses QT61 & QT75 with direct transfers for those QT60 along Queens Blvd.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Feb 15 16:06:35 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusRider on Sat Feb 15 09:42:11 2020.

The Bronx was the first borough to get a bus network redesign proposal. Perhaps when complaints about that were relatively moderate, they got more ambitious with the Queens plan (with the Brooklyn plan intermediate in time and, IIRC, ambitiousness).

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 17:53:06 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Nyctransitman on Sat Feb 15 14:53:32 2020.

If you live in a "private area" and you don't want buses in your neighborhood, it makes no difference whether they stop there or not. Buses are significantly more of a disturbance than cars, and have the same impact on the roads whether or not they make stops.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 15 18:33:50 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 17:53:06 2020.

The issue of who pays for the upkeep of the roads matters also. If my community derives no benefit from your bus, why would I want it on my street? There may be some old covenants and agreements with the city dating back to when the community was established, I dont know.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 19:19:59 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusRider on Sat Feb 15 09:42:11 2020.

In the 1980s and 90s, $20 million was spent on borough bus studies. Only a few Bronx and two Staten Island routes were changed. Eithe the MTA said they couldn't afford the proposed changes or they refused to compromise with the communities.

After that disaster, the MTA proclaimed borough studies were infeasible and they woukd only do incremental planning.


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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 19:21:18 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

The reason there is so much opposition is that it s a bad plan.

Here is another article in the NY Post

https://nypost.com/2020/02/15/queens-bus-riders-upset-over-mta-shuffling-routes/amp/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons&__twitter_impression=true

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 15 19:27:14 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Feb 15 16:06:35 2020.

The Brooklyn plan hasn’t been published yet.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 15 19:30:05 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Feb 15 19:21:18 2020.

You don’t need anything after the question mark.

LINK

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by JAzumah on Sat Feb 15 23:44:48 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 15 11:02:06 2020.

The MTA had an express bus reduction plan that they put out last spring to cut 104 positions and save $21M. I was shocked when I went through the Brooklyn Bus Redesign and saw that the BMs were carrying less than 100 passengers each on Saturdays.

What makes me extremely suspicious is that I never saw the route profiles included for Queens. Is there a reason for that? Those profiles provide a lot of insight into determining why certain decisions were made. If OMB is pushing it, they may want to shift from buses carrying air to ferries carrying air other than summertime.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 16 11:54:19 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by JAzumah on Sat Feb 15 23:44:48 2020.

I think City DOT is the invisible hand behind this since Bus Company is what is most affected and its route system are to be chopped into hash, similar to what Nassau County did to LIB. How much longer is MTA willing to be their lackey ?

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 16 12:06:42 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 16 11:54:19 2020.

I am not going to call the MTA their whipping boy. MTA Bus has provided substantially better service than the private companies were allowed to provide because of the blank check agreement. Having said that, there are portions of their network that do need to be restructured. I don't think they need bus stops pulled out per se, but an integrated planning process is needed.

We can't just burn money because NYCDOT agreed to a blank check. However, it should have been closer to what the Bronx was and not a total overturn of the apple cart.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 16 12:33:47 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 16 12:06:42 2020.

First find someone in MTA Planning that actually knows how to plan.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 16 14:11:18 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 15 19:30:05 2020.

I was just too lazy to link.

The reason I couldn’t do it last time is on my newer iPad you have to select the right Quote marks and on the older iPad, you got the right ones automatically.

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Re: There is one community that likes this plan

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Feb 16 16:00:04 2020, in response to There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 14 18:12:26 2020.

You missed it. There is one community that does like the plan.
The MTA reps that did not take notes. They will keep on trucking.

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Re: There is one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 11:34:44 2020, in response to Re: There is one community that likes this plan, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Feb 16 16:00:04 2020.

Which community is that?

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 11:34:54 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 16 12:06:42 2020.

The blank check was was agreed to by OMB, not DOT. Subsidies to MTABC come out of the miscellaneous budget, not the DOT budget. Other transit subsidies (buses operated by Academy, ferries operated by Hornblower) come out of the EDC budget, not the DOT budget. There is no vested interest of DOT.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 11:43:59 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Feb 16 14:11:18 2020.

You don't need to link. Just make your citation shorter. You only need to include:

http://www.nypost.com/2020/02/15/queens-bus-riders-upset-over-mta-shuffling-routes

The remaining portion of the URL is unnecessary.

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Re: There is one community that likes this plan

Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 17 12:09:01 2020, in response to Re: There is one community that likes this plan, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 11:34:44 2020.

The MTA Board room

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 17 12:10:38 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 11:34:54 2020.

The city is robbing Peter to Pay Paul. Subsides cut to BC from whatever department will find its way to the NYC Ferry money pit.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 14:35:35 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 17 12:10:38 2020.

Yes, the dance may be a two-step, but one in which DOT is not, itself, on the dance floor. That the MTA and the MTABC are not being transparent is troublesome; it should be made clear that the goal is not to better the financial position of the MTA, but rather the City.

More generally, there has yet to be a real fix to the problem of public transportation in this city not being financially sustainable. Every step that has been taken--be it tax increases or service reductions--has been to simply postpone the day of reckoning. Hard choices need to be made if there are to be long-term balanced budgets. The unions will not like those choices, and thus the politicians are afraid to make the decisions. Thus the spiral of higher and new taxes, and further service reductions, will continue.

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Now its Astoria

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 20:19:08 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

Gothamist

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Re: Now its Astoria

Posted by mike nash on Mon Feb 17 21:05:49 2020, in response to Now its Astoria, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 20:19:08 2020.

I could have predicted that. i've been thinking it since the plan was released.

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Re: Now its Astoria

Posted by mike nash on Mon Feb 17 21:05:49 2020, in response to Now its Astoria, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 20:19:08 2020.

I could have predicted that. i've been thinking it since the plan was released.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by JAzumah on Tue Feb 18 00:13:38 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 11:34:54 2020.

Academy's money is directly from New York State. NYCEDC is a pass through to avoid the appearance of a "franchise".

The MTA wants guarantees that NYS will continue to pay them this money before taking over the SIM23 & SIM24 and they won't do it until that happens. This is one of the few times that the MTA is being smart on an issue.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Nyctransitman on Tue Feb 18 01:11:10 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Snilcher on Sat Feb 15 17:53:06 2020.

There are yellow school buses that pass along those private streets such as for access to and from PS101Q is located at 2 Russel Street Forest Hills Gardens.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Feb 18 04:27:06 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by BusMgr on Mon Feb 17 14:35:35 2020.

Other cities that have done redesigns have taken the 90/10 approach, meaning that 90% of the resources would go into providing frequent service on high ridership corridors while the remaining would 10% go into coverage, and from what I've read all of the cities who have taken this approach have seen great results. Perhaps its time for the MTA to follow this trend.

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Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Feb 18 18:08:13 2020, in response to Re: There Doesnt seem to be one community that likes this plan, posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Feb 18 04:27:06 2020.

Don't see how that could work in NY. I could see it working elsewhere where there is adequate parking so someone could drive to a high frequency route and leave their car there.

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Re: Now its Astoria

Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 18 19:02:24 2020, in response to Now its Astoria, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 20:19:08 2020.

Of course they want to run a Astoria - Williamsburg bus that maybe just 1 person will ride. It need not stop at any bus stops and miss green lights in the process. Very good for MTA speed metrics.

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Re: Now its Astoria

Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 18 19:12:12 2020, in response to Now its Astoria, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Feb 17 20:19:08 2020.

Complaining about services that don't exist yet. How do they know it won't help Astoria?

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Re: Now its Astoria

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Feb 19 08:03:07 2020, in response to Re: Now its Astoria, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 18 19:12:12 2020.

How do they know it will help? Just because a few people asked for it does not mean more people will be helped than hurt. What data do they have showing projected ridership vs the numbers who will no longer have a one seat ride? They may not know the first number, but they certainly do know the second and they shoukd make that number public.

I proposed a new bus route from Rockaway to Sheepshead Bay Station where no one would lose a one seat ride, but they didn’t propose that one although others besides me have suggested it.

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