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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Jan 1 18:00:52 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Jan 1 17:56:13 2020.

Glendale still keeps a connection to the Flushing Line at a less crowded point (Hunters Point Avenue...7 trains are usually not overcrowded west of QBP, and I say that as a daily rider), as well as to the M at Court Square (the E is overcrowded, the M still has some spare capacity).

The A train is quicker than the E/J/Z for Downtown. I do agree they should add more stops to the QT7 in South Ozone Park/South Jamaica though (at least 130th and 143rd)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Jan 1 18:01:31 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 17:08:52 2020.

The QT80 running down 58th is so they can still serve that area around 58th & Laurel Hill Blvd without having to route the Q67 away from the industrial part of Maspeth.

And I think the QT60 being routed to the ferry is more about keeping the route out of Manhattan than actually serving the ferry terminal.


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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jan 1 18:23:06 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 31 11:26:45 2019.

Already, I am up in arms with their proposal for their QT74 route having their new southern terminal near the IND Elmhurst Avenue subway station, which is not ADA compliant and served by the "M" and "R" local trains. Long time riders of the Q49, which I am, use it as a feeder route going into the Roosevelt Avenue subway express station in Jackson Heights, thus along 35th Avenue would lose all of its bus service entirely.

The planners of the MTA forget that these bus routes are essential to make those easy connections with the subway at major transit hubs that have express train service, such as at Kew Gardens and Jackson Heights. They dropped the ball on this one!

-William A. Padron
("Triboro Coach Corporation")


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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jan 1 18:48:01 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 17:08:52 2020.

*Why does the QT41 (new Q84) stub at Francis Lewis Boulevard? Am I really supposed to think that more 120th Avenue passengers east of Francis Lewis Boulevard would prefer a direct bus to Cunningham Park over Jamaica?*

The running gag that I had for years was that the Q84 was the old people and kids bus for everybody that couldn't make the walk the Q4. I guess the planners presumed the same idea, but decided that the Cambria portion of the Q84 wasn't needed, and that this new route would be a good substitute.

I get the feeling that the authors are presuming that people are going to be willing to walk to catch new routes, or that they'll put up with new transfers, especially if we go to OMNY with Oyster style fare caps.

Why are they swapping the Q83 (now QT39) and Q3 (now QT68) north of Liberty Avenue? There is nothing wrong with the current arrangement. Lots of airport workers in Hollis use the Q3.

I think they're presuming that current Q83 riders want the F train *sooner*, so the theory is that it should make their bus trip to the subway shorter.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Snilcher on Wed Jan 1 19:16:34 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by TheGreatOne2k9 on Wed Jan 1 04:12:04 2020.

Yeah, how is that supposed to work? This is the first "overnight on weekdays only" scheduling I've seen. Does it mean no service on Friday and Saturday nights, or Saturday and Sunday nights?

It seems the reverse would make more sense: have overnight service only on the weekends (assuming Friday and Saturday nights) because that's when people are out late.



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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Snilcher on Wed Jan 1 19:19:43 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 17:08:52 2020.

I'm loving the new QT87, this one will be another instant hit.

It was my understanding that the peculiar routing of the current Q23 through Forest Hills (69th Avenue / Burns Street / etc.) was due to the residents of Forest Hills Gardens not wanting any bus service through their neighborhood. Given that, it doesn't seem possible that routing via Ascan Avenue would be permitted.




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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Snilcher on Wed Jan 1 19:22:07 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 17:08:52 2020.

Much of Glendale lost their subway connection to the Myrtle Avenue line, forcing riders to choose the Queens Boulevard line instead. Is it wise to funnel more riders onto a subway line that is supposedly beyond maxed out in capacity as it is?

If you mean Middle Village rather than Glendale, I would agree with you 100%, as a former longtime resident of that area.


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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusRider on Wed Jan 1 22:46:21 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

"Much of the New York City bus system is designed under the premise that riders refuse to transfer. To accommodate this assumption, routes generally have a hub and spoke design—radiating out from a central destination and meandering along their route to service multiple neighborhoods.
Yet a number of internal studies have demonstrated that riders are willing to transfer, provided it speeds up their commute. A Northeast Queens bus study, for instance, found that approximately one-third of riders transfer to another bus and one-third switch to the subway. A study of Staten Island express buses, meanwhile, found that many riders will exit as soon as they enter Manhattan and transfer to the subway. This revelation should guide MTA bus planners moving forward, allowing them to design a shorter, straighter, faster, and more grid-like network.

Currently, major thoroughfares throughout the city—like Victory Boulevard, Hillside Avenue, Fordham Road, and Fifth Avenue—carry multiple bus routes as they approach a central destination. These bus lines will have converged after servicing local streets in various neighborhoods.

Instead, the MTA should divide long, meandering routes in half. Rather than turning onto major thoroughfares, they should cross or terminate at these heavy roads (see below). Riders could then transfer to an ultra-high frequency route (~1-2 minute headways) that travels exclusively on that road. This will shorten the length of routes, cut down on the number of turns, and create a more direct, legible, faster, and reliable bus system."

Thought this was interesting, from a previous comptroller report.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 2 08:09:59 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 17:18:00 2020.

Exactly. They want to see what they can get away with. Just like in 2010. Propose so many cuts they all can’t be objected to, then put back the ones where there is the most screaming. Try to eliminate half the bus stops and get away with eliminating a third of them.

They claim this is customer driven. More BS. CB 14 already opposed Moving the Q35 from Newport last year. So they let it remain for one more year, and now they want to do it again. So how is that listening to the public? They just do what they want to do and justify it with BS.


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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jan 2 08:33:43 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusRider on Wed Jan 1 22:46:21 2020.

It is for me on an individual basis a net win to have ultra-high frequency routes at the expense of area coverage, because I can walk fast and have a high tolerance for walking through all sorts of weather, and making as many transfers as necessary (presuming those transfers are free).

But I am conscious that not everyone is in my position.

One thing I appreciate about this particular study, however, is that they make sure to take into account residents/jobs near the route (but do they do so by bus stop or only by places the route passes by? Because there are lots of places where there is a bus without bus stops).

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by G1Ravage on Thu Jan 2 09:53:41 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

There's a lot that I like, and a number of changes that make me scratch my head. Like the horrible weekend service, or lack of weekend service at all. And local routes that run ONLY during rush hours?? What the hell??

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 2 09:57:32 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jan 2 08:33:43 2020.

Looks like they threw their Planning standards out the window that you should not have to walk more than a quarter mile to a bus route. Looks like once you walk a quarter mile to a bus route, you will have to walk another quarter mile to a bus stop. When the average local bus trip is 2.3 miles, who would want to walk a half mile to and from a bus stop. That’s one third of your trip walking. Then they will wonder why ridership didn’t increase and will reduce more service to compensate. They just want to get out of the bus business and are doing a fine job at that.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Q4 on Thu Jan 2 13:51:26 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jan 1 18:48:01 2020.

The the walking difference for me between the Q4 and the 4A/84 was not a big deal when I lived in Cambria Height, however for those on the 84 route from 237th up to 130 Ave. might have a different opinion regarding walking to Merrick Ave. or Linden Blvd.



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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by JAzumah on Thu Jan 2 14:00:25 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 2 09:57:32 2020.

That's the issue. Every bus becomes a limited stop bus.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 2 14:05:49 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by JAzumah on Thu Jan 2 14:00:25 2020.

Did you see my article in Gotham Gazette? We need to get that circulated well with hundreds of likes.

https://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/8989-is-the-mta-correctly-performing-its-bus-network-redesigns



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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Jan 2 17:35:16 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jan 2 08:33:43 2020.

On the ReMix map it shows the number of jobs and residents within 0.25 miles of the stops.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 2 18:19:19 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Jan 2 17:35:16 2020.

What about the number not within .25 miles from the stops? They need to show the complete picture, but a partial picture.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 3 09:17:08 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.


If the draft plan is as bad as most here seem to think, we should flood the outreach sessions with our complaints. Commenting on the MTA site is not enough. I wonder how well publicized they are. Are they even on the buses?

Here is a list from qns.com

Outreach sessions will be held at Jamaica Center on Monday, Jan. 6, from 4 to 7 p.m.; Flushing-Main Street on Tuesday, Jan. 7, from 4 to 7 p.m.; 74th St.-Broadway/Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Ave. on Wednesday, Jan. 8, from 4 to 7 p.m.; 30th Ave on the N/W Thursday, Jan. 9, from 6 to 9 p.m.; Queens Center Mall at Woodhaven Blvd. on Saturday, Jan. 11, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m.; Sutphin Blvd-Archer Av. on Monday, Jan. 13, from 4 to 7 p.m.; Rockaway Blvd. on Tuesday, Jan. 14, from 6 to 9 a.m.; Court Square-23rd St. on Wednesday, Jan. 15, from 6 to 9 a.m.; and Beach 54th St. on the A line on Thursday, Jan. 16, from 4 to 7 p.m.

NeighborhoodDateLocationAddress

RidgewoodJan. 21, 2020Greater Ridgewood Youth Council59-03 Summerfield St

Ridgewood, NY 11385

FlushingJan. 22, 2020Queens Flushing Library41-17 Main St

Flushing, NY 11355

JamaicaJan. 23, 2020Queens Educational Opportunity Center15829 Archer Ave

Jamaica, NY 14433

Kew GardensJan. 28, 2020Queens Borough Hall120-55 Queens Blvd

Kew Gardens, NY 11424

Ozone ParkJan. 29, 2020JHS 202 Robert H. Goddard138-80 Lafayette St

Ozone Park, NY 11417

CoronaJan. 30, 2020Langston Hughes Library and Cultural Center100-01 Northern Blvd

Corona, NY 11368



Long Island CityFeb. 4, 2020Jacob Riis Settlement1025 41 Ave

Long Island City, NY 11101

RockawaysFeb. 5, 2020RISE/Rockaway Waterfront Alliance58-03 Rockaway Beach Blvd

Far Rockaway, NY 11692




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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 3 13:01:14 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

Just noticed: The QT35 is non-stop from Kings Highway to Kings Plaza. I don't think that's necessary at all. If anything, it should be "closed-door" north of Kings Plaza.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusMgr on Sat Jan 4 13:25:32 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Thu Jan 2 17:35:16 2020.

It appears as though NYCTA and MTABC have taken down the "interactive" bus route map designed with Remix. The direct links to the local map, http://platform.remix.com/map/4ee65d6, and the express map, https://platform.remix.com/map/9c88298, now both lead to a sign-in page. Was there a violation of the Remix license? Or was there something within the maps so embarrassing to NYCTA and MTABC so as to cause them to pull those maps?

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 4 13:33:21 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Sat Jan 4 13:25:32 2020.

The Remix maps were not accurate. It did not show the Q113 past Rosedale and onto Peninsula Blvd.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusMgr on Sat Jan 4 22:04:49 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 4 13:33:21 2020.

So it is the "embarrassing to NYCTA and MTABC" reason for pulling the maps?!

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 4 22:22:17 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Sat Jan 4 22:04:49 2020.

Most of the draft proposal is an "embarrassment".

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Jan 5 16:25:26 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jan 1 18:23:06 2020.

Just checked there's a transfer to the new QT61 route which serves 74th Street/Roosevelt Avenue Jackson Heights plus that bus goes into Midtown, Manhattan.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Q23 on Sun Jan 5 17:53:38 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Jan 1 18:23:06 2020.

Agreed, what they are doing with the bus routes in Jackson Heights is atrocious. They should have been kept the way they are for the most part.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 5 22:22:39 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 14:35:42 2020.

I ignored this thread until I picked up my copy of this week’s edition of The Wave. As a Rockawaite I think the Q53 elimination is grossly negligent in its consideration of the impact it will have on fellow west enders. They successfully ruined that route from the semi express it once was and now they’re considering taking it away. I think that’s terrible. The Q22 thing I’m not sure about yet but I know many folks use that bus to get to work from end of the peninsula to the other. On a single seat. I think it’s more appropriate to run the Q35 on Newport to be fair to all folks on the north and south side.
People will have to show up to the scheduled meeting on February 5 to voice their concerns because if they don’t they’ll have nobody to blame if this stuff becomes reality. Historically not many people have shown opposition to these type of changes a la the recent stop changes on the Q22. If only a few show up it’s make the minds up of the folks that conceived this plan.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 5 22:52:21 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 5 22:22:39 2020.

The public will turn a blind eye to this whole re-organization till it's too late. Then they'll scream and assault the bus operators when the changes come.

Therefore it is important that the local politicians, community boards and civic groups know what transit wants to do.

Finally I assure you that the plans for the Woodside to Rego Park section of the Q53SBS is no bargain either.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Q23 on Sun Jan 5 23:26:16 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 5 22:52:21 2020.

I contacted my assemblyman and my councilman regarding the changes where I live (Middle Village). Haven't received a response from the councilman, but the assemblyman has stated that is not in support of the plan at all and he will address those talking points to the MTA. He's also encouraging people to submit comments on the MTA website.

Glendale & Middle Village service will be a disaster under the new plan because of a reduction in coverage, access to the 7 train, and service hours.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 5 23:38:40 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 5 22:52:21 2020.

I believe you

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jan 6 02:28:06 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

Is no one else overwhelmed by the number of changes going on here? Have any other Boros had similar changes - Staten Island's express bus revamp was big but at least it didn't affect the local buses, and was easy to understand after about 5 minutes of effort.

Trying to figure out how all these changes play into each other is somewhat maddening.

Did Uber come up with this plan? Because they're the only ones who will benefit when people can't figure out wtf is going on if all this is enacted at the same time...

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 08:37:46 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jan 6 02:28:06 2020.

Getting buses off Newport Av makes case for NYC Ferry, and also sending all those buses to ferries in LIC.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 6 08:55:52 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 08:37:46 2020.

What do you mean about getting buses off Newport Avenue

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 09:08:53 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 6 08:55:52 2020.

No more Q22, Q35 is to go along Rock Beach Blvd.
NYC's wish is for disgusted people to take NYC Ferry.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jan 6 09:16:16 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 09:08:53 2020.

Yeah. Well it’s not hard to disgust people with shitty options in the first place.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 3 09:17:08 2020.

NYCTA and MTABC are not advertising public hearings but "workshops." Using workshops is a method that tends to divide the citizenry into one-on-one encounters, not allowing reactions to be shared in an open forum for all the hear, and perhaps most importantly, not creating a record upon which decisions can be rationally made and appeals taken. Notice that the website does not even provide an address to which written comments--which could review the deficiencies with the plan and provide a written record--is not provided. Oral comments, expressed to a representative at a workshop, are easily overlooked and ignored if not consistent with the propaganda being peddled. In sum, the workshop method epitomizes the underlying premise that the NYCTA and MTABC service planners know best, that the citizenry does not understand what is good for them, and it is simply a matter of having NYCTA and MTABC do a better job of explaining their brilliance.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 11:05:48 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020.

"Workshop" means no consensus among participants , but at the end of the day just listen to the "experts".

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by JAzumah on Mon Jan 6 11:46:39 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020.

Is this the Delphic method I have heard about which gets people herded to a pre-determined outcome?

I don't think people understand that the plan is to space bus stops similar to limited stop buses. 4 normal blocks is ok, but more than that is a problem for at least two segments of captive bus users. This plan will live and die largely on this reality. These routes will not work timewise with today's stop spacing.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 6 12:29:37 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Q23 on Sun Jan 5 23:26:16 2020.

Maspeth also and throughout the entire Community Board 5 area.

I don't like that there will be no bus service on 80th St. north of Penelope Ave. and the B57 extension to Roosevelt/Broadway/74th. It may look good on paper but due to traffic conditions along Flushing Ave. from morning till night, service regularity is horrible as it is. Extending it will negatively impact residents along 69th St. as well.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 6 13:34:52 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020.

Which is why the politicians have to get involved to let MTA suits know that most of these proposals are unacceptable.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 6 13:48:56 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020.

Good points about the workshops.

They also want to keep these studies a secret until it's too late to make changes claims Ming you already had your opportunity.

There isn't even a mention or link about them on either the new or the old MTA website. The only way to get to the pages about the study is to already know a study is going on by going directly to the redesign page or doing a search for the redesign.

People are too trusting, they think if they tell the MTA their objections, they will listen. They will ignore individual complaints and only pay attention where there are huge public outcries.

The MTA is totally out of control. Most of the elected officials aren't taking the complaints seriously either figuring their role is just to forward them to the MTA. They must become actively involved.

I still believe Byford is well intentioned but he hasn't a clue about what his people hare doing. He has to be educated so he can provide real leadership.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 6 13:52:40 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 6 13:34:52 2020.

But will they? Only if enough constituents contact them and that can't happen when 99 percent of the bus riders have no idea these studies are going on. And that 99 percent is not just a made up number. There are 300,000 daily Queens bus riders and I doubt if more than 3,000 know about the study.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 6 13:55:50 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jan 6 02:28:06 2020.

There is no way this can be enacted at the same time without massive chaos and the MTA is too dumb to even realize this. DOT complained it was very difficult for them to do all the signage for the SI Express changes in time, so how could they ever do the necessary work on time for changes on such a massive scale? It's just not possible. They aren't going to triple their staff.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by JAzumah on Mon Jan 6 14:12:38 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 6 13:55:50 2020.

It is much better to blow it all up at once if you are making improvements. Incrementalism is part of the region's systemic issues. It is cheaper (in the medium term) to transform than patch.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon Jan 6 19:22:45 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jan 6 12:29:37 2020.

How does extra service on 69th Street negatively impact residents?

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jan 6 19:52:02 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 6 09:08:53 2020.

The ferries are actually a good idea and I like the idea of integrating the bus system with it. They're just not frequent enough. For comparison, most Sydney Ferries run half hourly weekdays, half hourly or hourly weekends, make many stops along the way like a bus route on water. They use turnstiles so it functions like a water metro.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BusRider on Mon Jan 6 23:07:08 2020, in response to Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by GojiMet86 on Mon Dec 30 23:37:03 2019.

If you haven't already take a look at the North Queens study. The route profiles for most if not all Queens routes are more detailed. Comparing to this recent plan, this old one seems more beneficial.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jan 7 00:53:13 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Mon Jan 6 09:46:11 2020.

That reminds me of the NICE redesign meeting. There were public concerns about the N6 Express, N23/N27 merge, etc. I arrived late but still wanted to check it out.

I told one of the planners I had concerns the N6 Express (since I knew it was a disaster, I used to use it every day, and it worked because it was quick and connected all the transfer points. And, by quick, I mean quick! This is back when Hempstead Turnpike was mobility friendly and N6 Limited trips would actually have the ability run non-stop between stops, like no red signals! City line to Franklin Ave in 8 mins one morning!)

Anyway, he felt he could ease my concerns by saying that locals would run every 10 mins. But apparently they didn't monitor ridership patterns, because if the busiest stops ARE the limited stops, and both the locals and limiteds were FULL and flagging, then what did they expect would happen if 50% of buses would bypass all the busy stops?

Needless to say, many N6 Express buses were empty, literally, and some were light with like 3 passengers! There were angry riders getting flagged like crazy. And now, the n6Express has basically reverted back to the Limited of the past, with 2 stops still not reinstated (Hillside & Francis Lewis, and Locustwood Blvd).







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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jan 7 01:43:36 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 6 13:55:50 2020.

I was thinking about that earlier. All the changes, not only routings, but numbers as well. How will they update all the bus signs while keeping the old ones so that people don't get confused before the change happens?

They also have to update the signs to buses in the subway (and LIRR?) stations.

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 7 07:48:29 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by JAzumah on Mon Jan 6 14:12:38 2020.

I didn't see that the entire system shouldn't be changed. Incremental changes are definitely not the way the go. But the changes once developed need to be phased in over a year or more as I proposed in the Brooklyn redesign I developed

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Jan 7 07:57:34 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jan 7 01:43:36 2020.

It would be a mess. But the amountbof changes required by the MTA IS minuscule when compared to the amount of work DOT has to do. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Bronx changes go into effect. That will be the testing ground. I predict mass confusion with many signs not in place in time. Just removing all the tape to uncover the new signs will take time.

In 1978 when the southwest Brooklyn changes went into effect, there was massive confusion for three days at Sheepshead Bay Station because all the routes stopped at different stops, some with different route numbers, even though the MTA had three people stationed there to help passengers.

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