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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 14:05:25 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 17 10:56:44 2020.

Express buses cost $7.00.

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(337769)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 14:08:21 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 11:13:57 2020.

But thatís not his point. On the old Q53, that was essentially the setup. There were hardly any intermediate stops.

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(337770)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 14:32:23 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 14:08:21 2020.

Okay, he is in favor of the old setup because of the original purpose of the route to replace the Rockaway Beach line that was discontinued. But I still asked a legitimate question when you consider the context of the thread which mentioned overlapping corridors vs people traveling from the first to the last stop.

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(337773)

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Re: More news

Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 17 16:47:06 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 16 16:46:36 2020.

AFAIK, NYCT bus including MABSTOA are all under NYCTA whereas MTA Bus is separate. That would mean that Byford is in charge of buses under the direct jurisdiction of the NYCTA.

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(337775)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri Jan 17 18:08:48 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 14:05:25 2020.

They cost $6.75

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(337776)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 18:15:06 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri Jan 17 18:08:48 2020.

Not sure why I thought it was $7.00. But still well more than twice the local bus fare.

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(337777)

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Re: More news

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 18:41:13 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 17 16:47:06 2020.

Many NYCT Bus and MTA Bus Company functions are combined like Road Operations. As proof, many employees have NYCT and MTABUSCO email addresses. Just like many MaBSTOA employees really work for NYCT. The only real difference between the three units are legal differences. In practice, it's all one operation for many functions.

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(337778)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 17 21:23:26 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 16 09:59:50 2020.

That hasnít been the routeís sole purpose for over a decade now.

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(337779)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 17 21:29:39 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 11:13:57 2020.

I remember the MTA releasing financial statistics for all of its bus routes a while ago, and the few profitable routes in the system are the shorter subway feeders that probably carry quite a bit of riders from end to end riders like the B74 and Q49.

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(337780)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 22:08:55 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 17 21:29:39 2020.

Yes that is true, but that doesn't mean all the routes should be short subway feeders.

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(337781)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 17 22:56:53 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 14:05:25 2020.

For a slightly higher fare than a local you got a quasi express bus back at that time.

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(337782)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 17 22:58:45 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 17 21:23:26 2020.

I understand that but the neighborhood still has its demand and to withdraw this route from service is an abomination for a community that has a very tough commute to begin with.

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(337783)

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Re: More news

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 18 03:16:03 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 18:41:13 2020.

I definitely agree with that, but on paper who are the actual heads of the respective bus agencies and while we are on the subject what is the status of employee passes among the several agencies. I know that NYCTA passes are valid on MABSTOA and vice versa but what about MTA Bus?

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(337784)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Allen45 on Sat Jan 18 06:38:42 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Jan 17 21:23:26 2020.

I think he's talking about the B103 as Triboro Coach never ran classics on the Q53 but Command ran classics on the B103.

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(337785)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jan 18 08:16:56 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 17 22:56:53 2020.

Yes, but unless it was paying for itself and not being subsidized by anyone outside of Woodside and the Rockaways, I would respectfully suggest that the concerns of non-Rockaway residents along the way may help for the overall healthiness of the route, especially if it is the case that the newer intermediate stops are being used and contributing to the patronage of the route as it is now.

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(337787)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 08:53:50 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jan 18 08:16:56 2020.

People along Woodhaven Blvd from Jamaica Ave to the Parkside area may want to go beyond Queens Mall, or they would have taken the Q11 in the first place. But these so-called planners are content to dump people at any subway station the bus comes to.

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(337788)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 09:15:07 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BusMgr on Fri Jan 17 12:10:16 2020.

They believe their draft service plan is an improvement because the kool aid they have been drinking isnít spiced with intelligence. This is evident by the assumptions they are making. (They are not as smart as they think.)

1. They are not allowed to make any strategic dollar investments in the system other than on bus lanes or SBS so for everyone who benefits, someone else must suffer.

2. They donít ride the buses so they canít predict the psychology of bus riders.

3. They assume anyone who rides a bus is capable of using a subway also. That is evidenced by their design of bus routes to dump riders at the subway.

3. They believe the data tells the entire story which it doesnít.

4. They assume if they cut service riders will wait extra or otherwise adjust, that they will not seek alternate means of travel.

5. They are looking at revenue and operating expenses in a vacuum, believing the two are unrelated. Les service means less ridership and lower revenue necessitating future service cuts, only when these cuts stop, can ridership increase.

6. They are on,y looking at increasing bus speeds ignoring what should be the major criterium, has total passenger trip time decreased for most?

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(337790)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 09:25:54 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jan 18 08:16:56 2020.

Naturally as a Rockawaite Iím going to advocate for my neighbors and provide a point of view shared by community stakeholders. Like Iíve said in this thread earlier, at this juncture the survival of the line is the absolute top priority. Where it stops along the way up Woodhaven and itís truncated route are moot points right now.

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(337791)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jan 18 10:05:20 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 09:25:54 2020.

I understand and also hope that the Q53 stays put.

It's been more a theoretical exercise talking about the intermediate stops.

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(337792)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 10:44:56 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jan 18 10:05:20 2020.

The result may be they'll kill the Q52 instead, boost Q53 frequency on the common portion, and no one will complain. It seems these Planners either want to be attacked so everyone will forget about Rockaway Beach Blvd/Newport Av, or they are very stupid.

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(337793)

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Re: More news

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 11:19:50 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 18 03:16:03 2020.

Officially, MTA Bus fare machines always rejected an NYCT pass, but drivers always accepted them if you showed it to them. But it may be different now since the SBS machines for MTABus Co does recognize an NYCT pass.

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(337794)

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Re: More news

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 11:27:09 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 11:19:50 2020.

What happens when this all goes OMNY ?

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(337795)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:42:57 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Allen45 on Sat Jan 18 06:38:42 2020.

If you're talking about JAzumah's post then yeah, I've only seen Orion V CNGs on the Q53 when Triboro operated it, so I didn't know about that one either. Command primarily used RTS CNGs on the B103, with an Orion V CNG sprinkled in here and there, I've never observed Command using MCI Classics on that route.

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(337796)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:51:15 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 08:45:36 2020.

Thank you!

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(337797)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:57:58 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 08:53:50 2020.

I completely get where the MTA is coming from in wanting to truncate the Woodhaven SBS service to Queens Center, whether I agree with it or not. It's not the most efficient use of tax dollars to continue running a duplicative bus service down a street which not only has frequent (albeit overcapacity) subway service, but will also have its own bus line soon according to this new plan. It's also probably why the service gap on Roosevelt Avenue throughout Corona is still going to be there even though the demand for such a route is so obvious.

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(337798)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 12:00:23 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 10:44:56 2020.

I don't live in the Rockaways, but I would assume that Seagirt Boulevard losing its east-west bus service is a much bigger deal than Newport Avenue losing its bus service.

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(337799)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 12:13:03 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:57:58 2020.

Trains do not run directly between Queens Blvd local station and Woodside. That is why the Q53 runs there. Jackson Hts is not an easy transfer.

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(337800)

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Re: More news

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 12:36:52 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 11:27:09 2020.

I guess new passes will be issued that OMNY will accept.

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(337801)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 12:49:55 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 12:00:23 2020.

You might be right about that. On the west end Newport might be more fair since it cuts the center of the neighborhood. Iím sure there are many folks that work along Seagirt that depend on that service.

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(337802)

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Re: More news

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 13:04:48 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 12:36:52 2020.

I suppose NYCT, MABSTOA , BC, and on the subway all universally accepted ?

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(337803)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 13:05:28 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:42:57 2020.

Triboro May have used CNG RTSs on the 53.

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(337804)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 13:06:02 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 17 08:45:36 2020.

Whoís point?

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(337805)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 18 13:19:27 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 13:06:02 2020.

I donít know who point is.

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(337807)

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Re: More news

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 14:55:09 2020, in response to Re: More news, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 18 13:04:48 2020.

I believe the subways were added to MaBSTOA passes but unsure about BusCo.

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(337809)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 18 17:28:35 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 11:42:57 2020.

I remember mostly RTS' on the Q53 under Triboro.

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(337811)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 19:14:49 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 18 17:28:35 2020.

Probably beginning with that order in 1985. Their buses were spic n span clean especially compared to the Green Lines RTSs

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(337812)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Snilcher on Sat Jan 18 21:17:04 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 18 09:15:07 2020.

I'm not sure why you say the plans are designed to dump riders at the subway when many of the proposed changes do the opposite: remove access to current subway destinations in eastern Queens from routes like the Q65 and the Q76, for example.


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(337813)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Jan 18 21:17:16 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 13:05:28 2020.

They did. Eventually the Q53 operated every type of RTS Triboro had at one point or another-including the Methanol powered RTS's.

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(337815)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 22:53:22 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Jan 18 21:17:16 2020.

Oh wow yeah I can picture that on B.116th.

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(337816)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat Jan 18 23:23:53 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 1 14:35:42 2020.

The new Q22 (QT22) has a stub end terminal at Rockaway Turnpike & Burnside Avenue, and will no longer serve Saint John's hospital, or any of those dense apartment complexes off of Seagirt Boulevard. Redfern Houses lost their bus stop. Lastly, the QT22 will now stop running at around 10:30PM instead of 1AM like it does presently.


Redfern did not lose their bus stop because the QT22 is replacing the Q114 between Mott Avenue and Rockaway Turnpike/Burnside Avenue. The rest of what you posted is true and unacceptable. To add to your point about Seagirt Blvd, the entire length of Seagirt Blvd will be without bus service except the terminal for the QT13 at Crest Road as well as Beach 9th Street. This because the QT13 will replace the Q22 route up to Mott Avenue then continue its current route to Jamaica. The only good thing about this proposal is that residents in the Bayswater section of Far Rockaway will finally have bus service.

The QT22 plan would be better if they would extend it to Brookville Blvd so it could serve the entire shopping district along Rockaway Turnpike/Blvd in the 5 Towns area providing a one seat ride for shoppers and employees.





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(337817)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:15:35 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Wed Jan 15 17:51:49 2020.

Few people rode it when it was a super express though, half-empty Q53s would routinely pass jam-packed Q11s. The poor reliability due to how the city forced the private bus lines out and that weird detour up 63rd Drive didn't help, but there just wasn't too much demand for it as a super express.

I don't know what Q53 bus you're talking about, but I rode that bus for almost 40 years and it was very popular and it was crowded during rush hours in peak direction only. When Triboro had it, it was extremely reliable-in fact the most reliable bus line along with the MSBA routes out here in Rockaway. During the summer weekends, the Q53 operated every 5 minutes and the buses were jammed packed-premium fare and all.

I can personally attest that since the TA took over the route, they royally f*cked up the Q53. They took a pleasant 30 minute trip and turned it into a hellacious hour plus trip.

They should've left the Q53 as it was and let the Q21 (at the time the TA took over) become a limited.

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(337818)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:17:49 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by JAzumah on Thu Jan 16 00:17:04 2020.

They never ran the Classics on the Q53 in the first place.

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(337819)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:20:52 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 18 19:14:49 2020.

They were spick and span compared to other Triboro routes.

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(337820)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:29:53 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jan 18 12:00:23 2020.

Trust me, it's a huge deal.

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(337821)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 00:35:10 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:15:35 2020.

Oh my God. Someone else that knows what heís talking about.

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(337822)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 19 00:35:52 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:20:52 2020.

I believe it. They were exceptionally nice.

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(337823)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:36:48 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 9 12:26:31 2020.

During rush hours in peak directions the bus always had standees. I would have to catch the bus at Woodside or Jackson Heights. After that it was a wrap and if you were unfortunate to have to stand, you will be standing all the way to Rockaway.

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(337824)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:40:50 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 9 17:05:28 2020.

It wasn't run by the Green Bus Lines (thank God), it was run by Triboro and yes it was well utilized and reliable-premium fare and not.

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(337825)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:42:22 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 9 18:21:06 2020.

The TA added the stops not Triboro.

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(337826)

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Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Jan 19 00:44:12 2020, in response to Re: Queens Bus Redesign Draft Proposals, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 10 09:16:57 2020.

No. The TA did run it non stop for a couple of months.

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