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| (328881) | |
Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018 Q22/Q35 Rockaways Open HousePlease join the Metropolitan Transportation Authority for an open house to learn and ask questions about service changes to the Q22 including: More frequent buses for customers east of Beach 116 St. A travel path adjustment for the Q35 in the Rockaways. Bus stop balancing for both routes. Feel free to arrive anytime between 6:30 PM and 8:30 PM. Wednesday, May 23, 2018 Rockaway YMCA 207 Beach 73 St Arverne, NY 11692 http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/busplan_rockways_Q22Q35.htm |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 07:45:11 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. Why does the Q35 need an adjustment? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by northshore on Fri May 11 08:37:19 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. Will the 22 and 35 be through-routed? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:06:12 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. What the. . .is MTA deliberately trying to play "Guess the New Layout?" I think it would be obvious that any conversation at this open house would be helped by knowing the exact change (especially for the Q35) in advance.Either 1) the Q35 is going further east (but then why wouldn't they just say "extension" rather than "path adjustment"). . . . . .or. . . . . .2) most/all westbound Q22s to end at B 116th, without taking buses off the route (so frequency would go up). Then the Q35 would be responsible for the entire peninsula west of B 116th, so an adjustment would be needed (maybe via Rockaway Beach Blvd in the B 120s, then via Newport in the B 130s, then maybe via Neponsit in the B140s. This setup would satisfy all the "clues" given, but I can't imagine this happening without the open house being more in Belle Harbor than in Arverne! Hmm. . . . |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:06:12 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. What the. . .is MTA deliberately trying to play "Guess the New Layout?" I think it would be obvious that any conversation at this open house would be helped by knowing the exact change (especially for the Q35) in advance.Either 1) the Q35 is going further east (but then why wouldn't they just say "extension" rather than "path adjustment"). . . . . .or. . . . . .2) most/all westbound Q22s to end at B 116th, without taking buses off the route (so frequency would go up). Then the Q35 would be responsible for the entire peninsula west of B 116th, so an adjustment would be needed (maybe via Rockaway Beach Blvd in the B 120s, then via Newport in the B 130s, then maybe via Neponsit in the B140s. This setup would satisfy all the "clues" given, but I can't imagine this happening without the open house being more in Belle Harbor than in Arverne! Hmm. . . . |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:10:54 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 07:45:11 2018. Only if the Q22 can't take care of Rockaway Beach Blvd anymore for some reason I'd say.An adjustment in the Rockaways. . .and not described as an extension. . .that means to me it's coming off of Newport at some point. And why take it off Newport? Only if a parallel road is in greater need of the service. Having traversed the western section of the peninsula many times, I am very curious about this! |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:13:57 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by northshore on Fri May 11 08:37:19 2018. It's sounding to me like it will be a step or two short of that. I think they are just changing the nature of their current overlap. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 09:15:29 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:06:12 2018. This proposal was floated last September before Community Board 14 and was overwhelmingly rejected.The heart of this plan is the elimination of 14 Q22 bus stops in a community with a high presence of elderly residents who cannot walk to the bus. The will also be moving the Q35 to Rockaway Beach Blvd so they can eliminate service on Newport Avenue and turn most Q22s at B116 St. after ridership drops because residents will not be willing to walk a half mile to a bus, they will claim there us no reason for two routes on Rockaway Beach Blvd and will propose to cut the Q22 to B116 Street at all times making everyone who wants to go across the whole peninsula take two buses or three buses if coming from Breezy Point. Here is the story from the Rockaway Times from last October. " A CB 14 member exploded, “With all the new housing and senior centers going up in Rockaway on both the east and west ends, how do you expect this to benefit the community? When you eliminate these Q22 stops, what about the handicapped people who need to get to the closest stop to get on the bus?” One MTA representative responded, “Well, that’s why we have Access-A-Ride, to accommodate disabled people and seniors.” Another CB 14 member exclaimed, “Access-A-Ride?! You guys are a joke. You’re talking about a car service that takes hours to arrive? Furthermore, the Q22 is already unreliable and always packed, especially during rush hours when the school children are packed on the bus. And you are telling us that the MTA is implementing this because of low ridership? Then you want to further congest Beach 116th Street with the Q35 bus? Tell me how three buses, especially in the summer time are going to function without causing a ruckus on an active commercial strip. You need to redirect your minds from your fancy guidelines based on your inefficient research studies. Take the damn bus yourself, and you’ll see the reality!” |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 10:16:22 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 09:15:29 2018. How is Q22 ridership west of B 116th right now (excluding Riis Park season)? I think that's the key to the whole thing. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 11 10:25:20 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. Sounds like a service cut.Anytime you see "service balance",somethings got to go in THEIR EYES to improve THEIR BOTTOM LINE. So it begins...its 2010 all over again. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 12:13:25 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 11 10:25:20 2018. Yes, that's what I am afraid of this entire Bus Action Plan is. Just more service cuts.They are justifying elimination of bus stops saying the buses will go faster even if that is not the case. When bus stops are lightly used as is the case here, most bus stops are skipped anyway so no time is saved by eliminating bus stops. They are moving two bus routes from two streets to one street so they can run less service, just like they did when the moved the B67 and B69 to the same street so they. could cut B67 service in half. They are calling that route consolidation in the name of increased efficiency. You will also see more cutting of the ends of routes, saying the ends are lightly utilized. You will on,y be creating new ends that will also be lightly utilized. The goal is to erode patronage so they can justify further bus reductions. Their rationale as you said is to improve their bottom line. If we lose $1.50 for each passenger we carry, if we carry fewer passsengers, we will lose less money. Let Uber pick them up. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 12:29:11 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 10:16:22 2018. There aren't many passenger pickups along the Blvd between B. 116 and 149h Street save the health care and home service workers. If they think they're going to save a ton of money by ending the Q22 at 116th Street they're nuts. But I'm sure they've made equally silly cuts over the years. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 17:55:34 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 09:15:29 2018. To the MTA looking at a map, they see 2 MTA Bus Company routes 2 blocks apart, they screamed "redundant", so want to truncate the Q22 west of B116th, perhaps in a 2nd phase after they shift it to Rock Beach Blvd, and call the Rock Park station area a "transit hub"They can sugarcoat it: give the Q35 artics, and make it SBS. It is already limited stop on the Brooklyn side when coinciding with the B41, historically. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 18:01:16 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 17:55:34 2018. It's worse it's only a block apart. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 18:55:27 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 18:01:16 2018. Both were Green Bus Lines, correct ? There must have been a reason they had this alleged redundancy ? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri May 11 21:55:12 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 12:13:25 2018. Depends on where the new end is and how effective it is as a terminal. For example, I can't see them cutting the Q22 back any further beyond Beach 116th Street, because that's a solid anchor. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 00:10:17 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 18:55:27 2018. Yes they were both Green Lines. I'd imagine the Q 22 was established before the the Q 35. I know from reading this sort of thing that Q35 commenced operation the day the Marine Parkway Bridge opened, July 3, 1937. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 00:16:00 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri May 11 21:55:12 2018. Be that as it may they will have to plan out an effective way to do that. There isn't a lot of space there for that to happen especially with laying up buses. I suppose they could release passengers on the northeast corner of 116 and make a left up the beach block and make the U turn to come back the other way. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 12 07:11:22 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 00:10:17 2018. Q22 may have been a trolley car replacement, Ocean Electric ? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 08:00:00 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Sat May 12 07:11:22 2018. On Wikipedia it says it was founded by the Long Island Coach Company in 1912. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:35:50 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 17:55:34 2018. It's good to just take a look at the overall situation. It's a difficult one, if you really appreciate it. The ideal would probably be to run 1.5 lines (instead of 1 line or 2 lines) in this section of the peninsula but that can't be done without some complexities.To me, if it is documented that Q22 ridership is presently low west of B 116, then having the Q35 cover it all with an appropriate routing that stays near the geographic center of the peninsula the whole way (using Newport where appropriate and where that small conglomerate of stores is) and with closely-spaced stops isn't so bad. Even with that, I'm not sure the Q35 all by itself is a good idea for the summer with Riis Park. I've wondered if a Q53 extension might be best in that situation though (non-stop to Riis Park from B 116). My top-preferred "fantasy" layout would be a Q35 loop without a terminus in the Rockaways. Come down from Brooklyn, loop via Newport, B 116, and RBB, and head back to Brooklyn. Nobody is far from a bus stop, and you are running fewer empty bus seats across Belle Harbor. I'm sure transit workers would never permit something like this though. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat May 12 12:28:09 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 12:13:25 2018. It is perfectly fine to nip and tuck a bus system. Travel patterns are not static. I do not agree with cutting back the Q22 to Beach 116 Street, but if the goal is to pair up the Q22 and Q35 to work together, then the Q22 can be a weekday rush hour only operation between Beach 116 Street and Roxbury. It would not be the end of the world.In this scenario, you would have the following service patterns: Q22 : Far Rockaway-Rockaway Park (thru running with Q35) Q22R: Far Rockaway-Roxbury Q35 : Midwood-Rockaway Park (thru running with Q22) Q35R: Midwood-Riis Park (summer only) Q35S: Midwood-Rockaway Park subway shuttle (one stop at subway & KP) During rush hour, you run 50% Q35S buses to reduce running time and protect Q22 interlining at Rockaway Park. The other 50% would be regular Q35 patterns and would not be interlined at all. The 50% Q22Rs would also be standalone. The 50% Q22s would interline with the Q35S during rush hour. Off-peak, all Q22s and Q35s thru-run via Rockaway Park. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 12 13:47:43 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:35:50 2018. If it doesn't have a terminus in the Rockaways but the depot is closer to the Rockaways, where do the buses "drop out" to get to the depot? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat May 12 14:13:01 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 08:35:50 2018. They permit it on the routes through LGA, but the thing is it would probably be rough on reliability, especially if there was any traffic over the bridge. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat May 12 15:00:46 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 11 12:13:25 2018. Here are the details of the bus stop elimination from last year's Rockaway Wave. So why is it not included in the Open House notification?It is because they don't want you to know the details ahead of time. Destined To Fail CB14 rejects MTA’s bus stop reduction plan The Wave | on October 12, 2017 By Ralph Mancini The Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA) wants to eliminate bus stops as part of a plan to provide increased service in Rockaway. At the Community Board 14 monthly meeting, however, board members unanimously voted to oppose the controversial proposal. MTA Assistant Director of Community Relations Simone Price was among the agency representatives on hand at the Knights of Columbus on Tuesday, Oct. 10 to promote a plan to improve bus speed and service reliability in the eastern part of the peninsula by short turning the Q22’s westbound route at Beach 116th Street on every other trip. Straphangers headed toward Jacob Riis Park, according to the recommendation, would then board the Q35, whose travel path would undergo a revision by moving its route from Newport Avenue to Rockaway Beach Boulevard. A study conducted by the MTA and the Department of Transportation (DOT), Price explained, would theoretically save buses nine minutes westbound and 11 minutes eastbound in an effort to serve commuters with more frequent service. But those in attendance were also told that 15 eastbound bus stops along the Q22 route would be discontinued in order to make the conversion viable. The stops include Beach 34th Street, Beach 38th Street, Beach 49th Street, Beach 75th Street, Beach 77th Street and Beach 86th Street. Beach 27th Street and Beach 73rd Street, on the other hand, would get relocated to Camp Road and Beach 74th Street respectively. Furthermore, the elimination of 10 more bus stops would also be slated for the western side, including Beach 106th Street, Beach 118th Street, Beach 124th Street, Beach 131st Street, Beach 137th Street and Beach 141st Street. Beach 77th Street is the one stop that would relocate to Beach 79th Street. “If we can short turn every other trip,” reasoned MTA Principal Transportation Planner Warren Berry, “we can get the necessary buses back to the east side, which is about 80 percent of our total ridership.” CB14 Chairperson Dolores Orr wasn’t buying the grand-scale alterations and voiced her concern about the added congestion that would result from shifting the Q35 on the Q22’s daily path. She estimated that 200 buses would end up traveling up and down Beach 116th Street with district police cars crowding the area along with fire engines pulling in and out of the local firehouse on the same road. When questioned by Orr on how long would it take someone headed to Beach 120th Street to board a new bus after being dropped off at Beach 116th Street, the MTA employees responded that they didn’t know and that the schedule of a new route pattern hadn’t yet been executed. Fellow board member Annette Lord-Cohen took issue with the proposed eradication of the bus stops at Beach 34th Street, Beach 38th Street and Beach 49th Street informing the speakers of the impact it would have on the elderly and infirm, many of whom depend on walkers to get around. “There’s a church on Beach 37th Street and Beach Channel Drive. That’s a ridership,” said Lord-Cohen. “You have a community center in the 40s that they use.” “The guidelines need to be changed because if you went down to city planning, you would know that on Beach 36th and Beach Channel Drive, they are putting up senior housing. There’s major development going on. So, what you are saying to me now is that you’re going to eliminate [the bus stops], only to [return] and bring them back?” Price countered by assuring the board that the MTA never decides to make changes “arbitrarily” and added that senior commuters have other transportation options, such as Access-A-Ride. The suggestion was met with scorn as CB14 Parks and Public Safety Chair Jose Velez spoke about how Access-A-Ride often forces his mother to wait for hours to get the service she needs and shouldn’t be considered an option. The agency’s plan, he maintained, is only making students, the elderly and working people alike walk or even run a little further every day to catch the bus. “I’m disappointed because I don’t think you’re taking people into account; you’re just taking guidelines into account,” stated Velez. Several of the board members, including Noreen Ellis, griped about Rockaway Beach Boulevard being a narrow and congested corridor that isn’t suited to handle any additional bus routes. “You’re going to have three buses on a short, narrow street. It’s just destined to fail,” said Ellis. “We’re isolated, desolated and neglected by the MTA and now you’re asking us to have faith in this conceptual idea? I ask you to relook at your numbers and come back when you can service our community.” The proposal failed to generate any level of support or positive feedback from the local audience. Sonia Moise implored the MTA liaisons to pay attention to the numerous complaints communicated by her colleagues on the board considering that her group is a representation of the entire Rockaway area from one end of the peninsula to the other. “I hope to God you’re listening to us,” she said. “You said this was a proposal, but we don’t like it.” |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 12 15:31:27 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 08:00:00 2018. Yep, actually 1921. Nassau Bus Lines Far Rock - Lynbrook (N32) started in 1912. I found my issue of Motor Coach Age of 4th Qtr 2000, which has a history of Green Bus Lines.I was looking for a reason as to why the Q35 was routed via Neptune Avenue instead, but nothing was stated. It was a double fare route,and also prohibited transfer slips to and from other Green routes at B116th Street until 1947, when the franchise agreement changed. Perhaps that routing was done to make it exclusive and avoid local travelers - just zip people between Rock Park and Brooklyn College or the IRT. The Q22's original western terminus was B149th, but extended to B169th Street to serve Riis Park and the Sheepshead Bay ferry. Now the TA seems to regard such routing and perceived duplication as historical legacies that no longer exist, and want them "rationalized". Lucky we still have the Q37 (General Omnibus). They could someday consider it too close while connecting with the same subway lines as the now improved Q10 (Travelers Bus Lines). |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat May 12 16:30:45 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 12 13:47:43 2018. Maybe there can be an arrangement for the "drop-out" to meet the put-in at B 116 so any through passengers can continue on.I also wouldn't be opposed to putting in a 3-5 minute pad / buffer around B 116th (or elsewhere on the route) to aid reliability. I'm figuring most able-bodied passengers looking for Brooklyn would opt to wait along RBB anyway. Being able to board at Newport and loop around B 116 would be more a luxury to help those who are more frail and/or want to avoid bad weather, etc. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 17:27:57 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 07:45:11 2018. Their reasoning is to replace the loss of Q22 service along Rockaway Beach Blvd. The plan is to either send every other or third Q22 to Roxbury thus terminating all other Q22s at Beach 116th Street.Another alternative that I heard was to terminate ALL Q22 service at Beach 116th Street and re-routing the Q35 along Rockaway Beach Blvd. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 17:52:52 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 10:16:22 2018. Extremely light. However it saves time for people that travel to/from Brooklyn to stay on the Q22 until either Beach 149th or Beach 169th Streets because:A) You can miss a connection between the two buses while walking the one block along Beach 116th Street, B) The Q22 is vertically a non-stop express between B. 116th-B. 149th whereas the Q35 pretty much stops at a good portion of its bus stops. Now during the Summer weekends, its a whole other ballgame on the Q22 past B.116th Street. I don't know what kind of fairs and attractions are at Riis Beach and Ft. Tilden but the Q22 is jammed packed all the way to the last two stops. The amount of visitors going to Riis Beach also affected the Q35 service. During the weekends, the Q35 operates every 7 minutes. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 20:46:11 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Sat May 12 15:31:27 2018. IDK about any franchise agreement of 1947, but I can tell you there were no bus transfers between any of the Green Bus Line routes in Rockaway in 1977 when I got out here. In fact, other than the transfer between the N31/N32 and the N33, there were no bus transfers anywhere in Rockaway until the NYCDOT (I think) issued them sometime in the 1990s. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 22:12:07 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 17:27:57 2018. I just know that at anytime of day that I'm coming home from Brooklyn and take RBB to my block I see folks waiting for the 22 presumably to travel east of B. 116th Street. This sounds like an inconvenience for people working in Belle Harbor and Neponsit. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 23:33:34 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat May 12 22:12:07 2018. The real deal is that the TA does not want to allocate the amount of buses to maintain adequate service on the Q22-plain and simple.Service on the Q22 has never been perfect but the last two years service has been deplorable. I haven't seen it this bad since the Green Bus Line days. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun May 13 02:33:23 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. From a policy perspective, what is needed is an extension of Q22 service from Beach 169th Street (Roxbury) to Beach 222nd Street (Breezy Point). There is no reason why the New York City taxpayers of Breezy Point should be denied public transportation service. Even if lightly used, it is part of New York City, and deserves at least some--even if minimal--service. The taxpayers of City Island receive service, so should Breezy Point. (In prior years, Green Bus lines operated Q22 service to Beach 222nd Street during school hours. However, it appears as though MTABC has since discontinued that service.) |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun May 13 02:33:29 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 23:33:34 2018. The difference is that Green Bus Lines had an excuse: the City of New York refused to allow newer buses to be acquired, and the buses that Green Bus Lines had been required to operate were over-aged and unreliable. MTABC does not have that excuse. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 07:51:05 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BusMgr on Sun May 13 02:33:23 2018. I don't beliveve residents of Breezy Point want bus service and would oppose it if offered. They run their own private vans for residents. They do not want outsiders. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 07:53:38 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 17:55:34 2018. That's pretty much the extent of MTA planning. Planning by looking at maps and Google Street view. And they will look at MetroCard data. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 07:59:41 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 11 09:06:12 2018. See this post. It explains the plan.http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=328924 |
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| (328945) | |
Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:02:24 2018, in response to Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by gold_12th on Fri May 11 07:37:02 2018. I believe in having schedules fitting demand. So if in fact the bulk of ridership is east if B116 Street, it may make sense to short turn more Q22s at B116 Street provided street space is available for buses to layover. It may also make sense to move Q35s to Rockaway Beach Boulevard for a combined headway so those additional short turns can be made depending on travel patterns, if maximum walking distances remain near the guidelines. However when you factor in the elimination of bus stops that increases the walking distance for some to twice the guidelines, then the plan is unacceptable. In any case, I would still oppose the bus stop elimination because the stops are lightly used and the buses will not be traveling any faster. People will just be walking longer to a bus stop with a greater chance of missing a bus and adding up to 20 minutes to their trip. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 08:02:24 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 12 20:46:11 2018. I was just repeating what I had just read in that magazine. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:04:10 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 11 18:01:16 2018. Routes are a block apart all over the city. That alone is not reason enough to reduce service. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:07:21 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Fri May 11 18:55:27 2018. A little known fact. Green Lines also had a franchise to run buses on Beach Channel Drive to keep NYCTA from operating a route there. So they must have felt there may have been a need for even three routes. In order to keep that franchise in effect they were required to operate a bus on Beach Channel Drive once a year. Utterly ridiculous. I would hate to be waiting for that bus. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 08:10:54 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:04:10 2018. Distant parts of the city have differing guidelines as to distance between routes apparently. Back in double-fare days, the TA seemingly regarded as all of the Rockaways as an unofficial Nassau County. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 08:18:33 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:07:21 2018. Reminds me of upstate NY and Pennsylvania intercity bus franchises in the 1970's in regulation days, where some routes ran once a month or once a year (i.e., Blue Bird from Erie to Scranton), in theory, so as to protect their rights to do charters, or keep a predator up-start from invading..In early 1978, I once staked out the D&F Transit bus depot in Fredonia, NY, for the departure of the once-a-month bus that was to depart for Jamestown and its monthly Sunday run on US62 to Gowanda at around 10:45am. Needless to say, there was no sign of life, and no bus left. If anyone important ever called them on it, I suppose they could have faked a Log book and driver on duty. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 08:20:08 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:02:24 2018. How often are bus stops now ? |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:31:13 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 08:20:08 2018. They are pretty much every other block. You can easily see them on Google Street view because they all have bus pads. I do see at least one missing bus stop where there is no stop for four blocks. My guess is that soneone politically powerful once lived there and objected to a bus stop in front of his house. I wouldn't be surprised if other stops are missing for the same reason.But all those stops are very lightly used anyway so buses are probably stopping only once every mile or half mile anyway. No time would be saved if the stops were eliminated so there is no reason to remove them other than to cause inconvenience and reduce ridership so you can cut service further. The MTA's real goal. Less ridership and less service. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 13 09:30:42 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:31:13 2018. Maybe just redistribute stops to be every 3 blocks, resurfacing 2/3rd of the bus pads, and put at the far side of each intersection in each direction so that boarding or alighting of so much as 1 passenger cannot lose the time of an entire traffic light cycle.I know they did the latter on the Q11 route in the late -1960's when I lived there. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 13 09:59:01 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 08:02:24 2018. Any combined service / headway should be via Newport before it is via RBB in my opinion. Or some combination of the two. To completely abandon Newport does not make common sense to me given the geography and layout of Belle Harbor. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 10:55:00 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun May 13 09:59:01 2018. They may feel that Newport Avenue residents may object to have more buses on their street. The risk for Rockaway Beach Blvd is less, but I probably agree with you because of the layout of the peninsula. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun May 13 14:39:55 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun May 13 07:51:05 2018. Pretty much correct. |
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Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun May 13 14:43:09 2018, in response to Re: Q22 & Q35 bus routes redesign, coming soon?, posted by BusMgr on Sun May 13 02:33:23 2018. I wouldn't compare Breezy to City Island. In Breezy they have their own way of handling transportation. One thing I'd imagine is the Breezy Pointers will state that there are virtually no public areas in Breezy Point therefore public transportation is unnecessary. |
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