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| Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd (317143) | |
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| (318619) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 09:04:50 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by OCTD 2039 on Thu Sep 22 01:22:56 2016. Answering for Terrapin? |
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| (318620) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 22 09:58:00 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:25:59 2016. Yes it makes them right. Was that the intersection or not? |
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| (318621) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 10:21:15 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 08:44:39 2016. No, I don't care about the pedestrians, they're not here to defend themselves. |
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| (318622) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 10:23:57 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 08:57:41 2016. How can I "admit" something that I don't know and didn't witness? |
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| (318623) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 10:36:00 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 10:23:57 2016. Not to mention that the only witness is providing a rather inconsistent story. Why on earth would these pedestrians be outside the crosswalk unless the crosswalk is blocked? There could be an explanation, but the witness hasn't provided it.As someone who wasn't there but sees this type of situation frequently because I undertake so many Manhattan street crossings, my best explanation is an unhealthy mixture of hesitation and aggressiveness on the part of the driver. |
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| (318624) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 10:39:24 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 10:36:00 2016. The thing is, there are plenty of examples of pedestrians being wrong. And yet he picks one that shows him to be wrong instead. |
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| (318625) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 11:20:24 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 10:39:24 2016. The thing is, there are plenty of examples of pedestrians being wrong.True. But rarely when they have a Walk light, however. |
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| (318627) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:28:56 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 08:59:37 2016. Perhaps when I understand what happened. I still don't. And I'm truly trying. Trying my best.I was going to extend sympathy, but then you said this: "All they had to do was wait 2 SECONDS" (Post 318615). Pedestrians at a crosswalk with a "walk" should never have to wait any seconds. So who was supposed to wait? Can you map it out for me? There are three parties/groups. You, the legal / honest pedestrians, and the jaywalkers. When you are at the stop bar with a red light, where are the "good" pedestrians, and where are the jaywalkers? When you are at the stop bar and the light first turns green for you (walk for pedestrians), where are the "good" pedestrians, and where are the jaywalkers? When you are at the crosswalk threshold, where are each? When you first enter the crosswalk, where are each? When you are forced to stop, where are each? Until I can totally visualize this, there is no way for me to honestly extend sympathy toward you or say anybody is right/wrong. The only sympathy I can currently extend is that driving in Manhattan in general can be relatively challenging to the multitude of obstacles. |
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| (318628) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:38:14 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:28:56 2016. P.S. I'm in this thread not because I want to defend either drivers or pedestrians. I'm in this thread because I want to be both a better driver and a better pedestrian. I know as a driver to yield to pedestrians, including jaywalkers, whenever possible, but that a suicidal pedestrian or totally irresponsible jaywalker can easily present a situation that makes it impossible for even a safe driver to yield in time. |
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| (318632) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by fdtutf on Thu Sep 22 13:23:19 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 09:04:07 2016. They had the right of way, so by definition they were not wrong.Your blocking the crosswalk, making it impossible for them to use it, doesn't make it wrong for them to cross outside it. |
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| (318633) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 13:59:15 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by TerrApin Station on Thu Sep 22 09:58:00 2016. It was 8th Avenue and 42 St and according to you it is perfectly okay for pedestrians to break the law and jaywalk by walking outside the crosswalk.Thanks. At least now I know where you stand on this. |
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| (318634) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 14:04:30 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 10:36:00 2016. My story was perfectly consistant as I described it below and referenced it like 20 tines now.http://www.subchat.com/buschat/read.asp?Id=318545 You are either unable or willing to understand. I EXPLAINED IT SEVERAL TIMES ALREADY THAT THE PEDESTRIANS WERE WALKING OUTSIDE THE CROSSWALK BECAUSE THE SAW ME COMING at a car length away. If they were any closer and within the crosswalk, I would not have been able to stop for them. Why isn't that clear? |
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| (318635) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 14:05:20 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 11:20:24 2016. No the pedestrians were clearly wrong which is as obvious as the nose on your face. |
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| (318636) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:52:58 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 14:04:30 2016. What is unclear to everybody else is why any driver could possibly not realize that if they scared the pedestrians out of the crosswalk that the driver, and not the pedestrians ARE THE SOLE PARTY AT FAULT AND THE SOLE PARTY CAUSING ANY DANGER.As myself and others have stated: Cut up your license. |
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| (318637) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:55:02 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 13:59:15 2016. Yes, it is perfectly okay for pedestrians to not be in the crosswalk if there is a dangerous driver who would run them down were they to be in the crosswalk. |
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| (318639) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 17:37:35 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:52:58 2016. A lot of drivers seem to think that scaring pedestrians out of their way is a legitimate driving tactic. :( |
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| (318640) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 17:38:29 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:55:02 2016. Too much subjunctive mood in that sentence. :) |
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| (318644) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 18:31:16 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:28:56 2016. 1. Who was supposed to wait?No one was supposed to wait. However I waited two seconds since it seemed rather obvious that with fifty or more people standing on a crowded sidewalk near an intersection, that at least one of them would want to cross Eighth Avenue westbound. Eastbound crossers did not matter because I would have passed the crosswalk and be out of their way by the time they reacted the right lane on Eighth Avenue anyway. 2. When I was at the stop bar the good pedestrians and the jaywalkers were all waiting near the crosswalk or as close to it as they could get to it. 3. Same response. The good pedestrians and the jay walkers were all near the crosswalk. 4. When I was at the crosswalk threshold the bad pedestrians, (first there was only one) ran around so as to be outside the crosswalk and began to cross. When the others saw I was slowing down for him, they followed his lead and ran to be just outside the crosswalk so they could cross behind him. After about two more crossed, I was already at a complete stop and then another 18 or so pedestrians walked outside the crosswalk after waiting in the correct place to cross and crossed in front of me rather than waiting two seconds for me to get out if the crosswalk. (Two seconds if they didn't fit e me to stop. Probably four or five seconds after I was stopped.) But that was too long for them to wait although they had to walk an extra distance to go around the crosswalk which probably took them an star few scenes anyway. So in reality they didn't save any time but just inconvenienced me as well as their fellow pedestrians who crossed legally, The good and bad pedestrians were originally waiting in the same spot near the crosswalk where they should have been. All your questions have the same response. There is no difference between the crosswalk threshold and where I entered the crosswalk. I entered at the crosswalk threshold if I understand your question. I was also at the crosswalk threshold when I was forced to stop because as soon as Inrounded the corner, the first person decided to run out of the crosswalk and begin to cross. He did not know if I was going to slow down or not and I could see he was prepared to run faster if I did not slow down. If I sped up, I doubt it if he would have been able to outrun me. Since he didn't know me, it was a dumb move on his part taking a chance with his life and for what? One second? When he saw me slowing down, he stopped running and proceeded to just walk. He had to go outside the crosswalk to have any chance of not being hit which is why he did not cross within the crosswalk. As I already said, then the others followed him. Since while I was waiting, I had nothing else to do so I started to count all those walking in front of me. That's how I arrived at 20. Then I took a brief glance in my rearview mirror and saw others also crossing behind my car. If I would have nailed the accelerator after rounding the turn, I doubting if anyone would have jaywalker. So I get punished for being cautious due to the number if pedestrians around and start driving at only 10 mph and those on this blog have the nerve to call me a horrible driver who should turn in his license. What a joke? I hope you can adequately visualize this now and am looking forward to your response. At least you don't insult. |
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| (318645) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 18:31:44 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:38:14 2016. Understand. |
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| (318646) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 18:37:48 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by fdtutf on Thu Sep 22 13:23:19 2016. No. Not according to Stephen Bauman.He stated that in order for them to have the right of way, they would have had to signal their intentions to cross by stepping into the gutter. NO ONE DID THAT. So they forfeited their right of way. And since THEY FORCED ME TO BLOCK THE CROSSWALK BY CROSSING IN FRONT OF ME, it is their own fault why they couldn't cross legally. SO WILL YOU ADMIT NOW THEY WERE WRONG? Or are you going to keep twisting words or ask questions or just insist anyway despite all the facts to the contrary that the pedestrians were still right? Why do I already know it is the latter? It is because there is nothing I coukd say to get you to say anything bad about a pedestrian. So why shoukd I even waste my time with you any more? |
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| (318648) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 19:31:32 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 12:38:14 2016. I'm in this thread because I want to be both a better driver and a better pedestrian.Some suggestions for you as a driver. - Pay attention to where your wheels are pointed. Your car will go that way, not in the direction the car is pointed. - When turning into a crosswalk, look for a pedestrian gap that obviously big enough for you to get through. If it looks just barely big enough, forget about it. - If your wheels are pointing at a pedestrian, you had better be slowing down. Going at a steady speed (or God forbid speeding up) on the assumption that the pedestrian will get out of your way is attempted criminally negligent homicide. - For the sake of argument, say you're trying to make a right from 42 St. onto 8 Ave. If you are first at the light, proceed 50 feet forward and aim to turn onto the left lane of 8th Ave. That way at least two cars behind you have a chance to make this light too. Now say you are trying to make a right from 42nd onto 8th, but not from the curb lane on 42nd, but rather from the next one over. Just because it's illegal and could cause a fender bender doesn't give you the right to make it a potential homicide too. As you make a right turn in front of the car to your right that is also making a right turn, your view of the crosswalk is impaired. If the guy to your right lets a pedestrian pass, you don't have the right to cream the pedestrian just because you didn't see him. So proceed very carefully and 99.9% of the time no one will get upset. - Say you are making a left turn from (2-way) 3rd Ave southbound onto 18th Street eastbound. Make sure the crosswalk on the east side of 3rd Ave, crossing 18th, is clear. if you screw up and as you approach the crosswalk you see a pedestrian in your path, STOP. You must not terrorize the pedestrian out of the way. Yes, you could get broadsided by a vehicle coming northbound on 3rd Ave. But that's the risk you are obligated to take. You are not allowed to risk the pedestrian's life just to avoid getting the side of your car smashed in. - If you are going straight and the light turns yellow when you are still 30 feet away, STOP for crying out loud. You're going to be running a red light, and all it takes is one pedestrian not noticing that you have stolen his right of way to cause a deadly accident. |
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| (318652) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 22:51:44 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 19:31:32 2016. Thanks!Other than the illegal turn you spoke of which I would never do, all known to me already but a good review. |
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| (318653) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Sep 22 23:24:45 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 18:31:16 2016. The front-most green car in this image is what I take to be waiting / yielding / positioned at the crosswalk threshold. (That would not be having entered the crosswalk.) This is the moment I think everyone here is interested in. At this exact point were there in-street pedestrians or still none? If there were no pedestrians yet in the crosswalk to yield to at this point, then anyone who went on to try to get in front of your car probably was crossing erratically and/or illegally (and definitely illegally if trying to get in front of you by leaving the crosswalk). But if there was already action when you were at this point - like the "runner" was already acting up, then maybe it would have been safer to yield here and the crosswalk still would not have been blocked.So I would say a sudden runner moving diagonally toward a place not a sidewalk is an unfair obstacle that you had to deal with, if it truly appeared to be smooth sailing for you when you reached the point given above. |
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| (318654) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 00:52:56 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 13:59:15 2016. You have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't some podunk crosswalk in East Bumblefsck. This is 42nd/8th!!!! Are you really that ignorant about pedestrian volumes and activity at that location??? |
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| (318655) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 00:54:14 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 16:26:00 2016. That makes no sense. Why would they be outside the crosswalk? |
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| (318656) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 00:59:05 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Wed Sep 21 15:48:31 2016. In a hypothetical situation similar to what BrooklynBus has been describing, with the added element/assumption that BrooklynBus was clearly the only car in the queue desiring to turn right, while the peds certainly would have the ROW, it would be a dick move to not simply let the one car turn right before stepping out into the street. |
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| (318657) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:01:25 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 16:26:00 2016. Where in the rules about giving pedestrians the ROW at intersections that have been posted did it mention crosswalks and that the peds had to be in them?? |
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| (318658) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:03:19 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:35:31 2016. No, you still would not have been wrong. That's a red herring / false conclusion you keep bringing up even after I've told you to stop. |
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| (318659) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:05:39 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 16:24:12 2016. You should have pulled up to the crosswalk and ONLY stopped at the crosswalk threshold IF there were pedestrians whose safety would be compromised by you continuing. This is really basic stuff. There's no reason you shouldn't know this already. |
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| (318660) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:06:39 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:39:18 2016. Exactly. You have been doing it wrong this whole time. We are not surprised. |
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| (318665) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 23 09:04:31 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 16:26:00 2016. This makes no sense. At 42nd and 8th, 20 pedestrians were walking outside the crosswalk but none were walking inside it? That is so unusual as to require a plausible explanation, or else the entire story isn't plausible.Also, even if there were no pedestrians walking inside the crosswalk, you had no right to block the crosswalk. |
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| (318666) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Sep 23 09:06:32 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:05:39 2016. You expressing a concept that is excessively complicated for your audience. |
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| (318670) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 23 10:02:14 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 00:59:05 2016. I see your point, but it would require all of the pedestrians being on the same page. If only one doesn't catch the "plan," it doesn't work, which is why in most cases that I've seen, whenever there are multiple pedestrians that are strangers to each other, they will just go on their "walk," regardless of the number of turning cars.Something like the "Pittsburgh left." It requires the one car turning left and each of the front cars (depending on how many lanes) of the oncoming traffic to all be on the same page to let the one car just turn first rather than wait the whole light out. |
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| (318671) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 23 10:06:24 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Sep 21 18:41:20 2016. Backing this up, I've been looking for average crosswalk widths but haven't found anything yet. I knew they were at least a few feet (one unofficial source I found said minimum of 6 feet), and perhaps ordinarily near a car length, not to mention the curb/parking lane, so you can at least get one more car (probably more) in on the light if you pull out rather than stay still on the green. |
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| (318672) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 23 10:11:59 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 16:24:12 2016. The problem is regardless of how negligible you think the distance is, if you remain in position for your green light to turn back to red, then zero cars make it on that green. At least if you had moved into the intersection and toward the crosswalk threshold while the pedestrians were going, you would have eventually finished the turn (even if after the light changed) and at least one car would have gotten through (yourself). |
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| (318673) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Sep 23 10:17:06 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:39:18 2016. Yes, a car at the crosswalk threshold and a pedestrian on the sidewalk (and no other pedestrians to speak of) basically means the car can go. It will be up to the car behind you (or whichever car comes up when the pedestrian's safety is at issue) to yield.If not, then how would we know when to yield? When the pedestrian is looking at the crosswalk? When he/she comes out of the corner store to move toward the crosswalk? The ambiguity is removed by simply putting it that the pedestrian is in reasonable danger if you don't yield. |
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| (318675) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 23 10:36:37 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Fri Sep 23 09:04:31 2016. IAWTP.There are some crosswalks where you can see 1-2 people waiting on the corner, so they could be just waiting there and not ready to cross. So it's OK to assume that if they don't cross quickly they won't be crossing. But there is no reasonable explanation for why a large group of people at the corner of 42nd and 8th would not be crossing the street. Thus he was wrong for not stopping at the crosswalk regardless, the intention of at least one pedestrian was abundantly clear. |
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| (318680) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri Sep 23 12:27:28 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 13:59:15 2016. With the massive traffic volumes at 42/8 and a large number of tourists - - do you really think tourists, especially from overseas, will use the crosswalk in an appropriate manner?This is Midtown Manhattan, not the Wakefield section of the Bronx, you are to expected to be alert for anything and everything - pedestrians, cabs, pedicabs, Citibikes and non-Citibikes, horse carriages by Central Park area, etc. - - judging by your statement - - I do agree on the jaywalking part - - but also think you should turn in your license if you don't realize the magnitude of driving in Manhattan and accept what they do (even though pedestrians jaywalk). |
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| (318681) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri Sep 23 12:29:23 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:23:11 2016. At 10:30 PM with the light green on West 42nd Street and 20 pedestrians are crossing 8th Ave - - why would they all be north of the crosswalk and nobody is using it?This sounds strange. |
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| (318682) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri Sep 23 12:34:42 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Sep 23 01:01:25 2016. S 1152. Crossing at other than crosswalks. (a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.(b) Any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway. (c) No pedestrian shall cross a roadway intersection diagonally unless authorized by official traffic-control devices; and, when authorized to cross diagonally, pedestrians shall cross only in accordance with the official traffic-control devices pertaining to such crossing movements. |
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| (318686) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Sep 23 13:24:08 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri Sep 23 12:34:42 2016. But if they only exit said crosswalk because a menacing driver has chased them out of it, the pedestrian is not the party at fault. |
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| (318687) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by fdtutf on Fri Sep 23 14:20:11 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Sep 22 18:37:48 2016. No. Not according to Stephen Bauman.He stated that in order for them to have the right of way, they would have had to signal their intentions to cross by stepping into the gutter. NO ONE DID THAT. So they forfeited their right of way. No. Here is what Stephen wrote on this point: Under § 1112 a pedestrian has the right of way whenever he steps onto the crosswalk, while the walk sign shows its walk aspect. (Emphasis added.) If the pedestrian signal is displaying the WALK indication, and a pedestrian steps onto the crosswalk, it doesn't matter that a car is proceeding through the crosswalk. The pedestrian has the right of way, and the car must cede the crosswalk to the pedestrian. I'm still convinced that you're not telling us what really happened here, anyway. I'm pretty sure this is just another "cyclist on Second Avenue" (or was it First Avenue? No matter) case where you're not telling the story the way it actually happened. |
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| (318710) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 24 12:01:33 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 11:20:24 2016. LOL... I do have to agree there. I've been in both situations. As a pedestrian, when the situation Brooklyn Bus is complaining about occurs, I usually try to go behind the car fouling the crosswalk (purely from a personal safety perspective).I will say that I appreciate when there is a separate cycle just for pedestrian crossing. It works great for everyone. Since all traffic is stopped in all directions pedestrians can even diagonally cross. |
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| (318714) | |
Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Sep 24 12:55:06 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 24 12:01:33 2016. I usually try to go behind the car fouling the crosswalk (purely from a personal safety perspective).Me too. It works great for everyone. Except that it reduces vehicle capacity and increases average pedestrian wait time. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:31:15 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Sep 21 15:42:32 2016. Sounds fishy. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 24 23:34:40 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 24 12:55:06 2016. It only increases pedestrian wait time for pedestrians who have to cross in one direction. If they want to reach the diagonally opposite corner it is significantly more convenient, as there is both less waiting and less walking.Vehicle capacity isn't really reduced since there is a benefit where turns can be made without having to wait for pedestrians to cross- people who may end up waiting multiple cycles in line for a right turn would be able to complete in one, for example. And I will say that the intersections I have seen this usually run out of cars before the cycle changes - the NYC one I am thinking of is the one by the Northern Blvd IND station. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 26 14:12:55 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:52:58 2016. I certainly did not scare anyone out of the crosswalk. You just continue to make up lies.In fact I gave them an extra two seconds in order to stRt crossing, something I was also criticized for by those who said I should have just turned when the signal turned green. Had I done that, then the possibility I scared them out of the crosswalk could have existed. But still others stated that the pedestrian was obligated to place his foot in the gutter. Since I proceeded very slowly and didn't slam on the gas, I CERTAINLY DID NOT SCARE ANYONE. in fact I A comparison is made between the B36 and B4 where riders also must walk a block. The difference is that there are over a million connections a year between the B36 and the subway about ten times as many as the B4. Also some bus riders have difficulty walking an extra block. That is why I placed those bus stops there decades ago when the bus routes in the area underwent a major updating that I designed. The MTA agreed at that time not to have the B36 go straight on Avenue Z due to the very high numbers of transferring passengers. There were no problems until a turning bus at East 17 Street struck and killed a passenger (the first bus fatality in 38 years since the bus started to make that turn), and now that bus turn is considered unsafe. If a B4 or B49 strikes a passenger while turning, should those bus turns also be eliminated? There are other implications as well. Bay Pizzeria complained business was down dramatically since the bus stop in front of the store was eliminated and now the store is for rent. Will DOT now help feed the family of the former owner? as going so slow that the pedestrians figured they found beat me by crossing outside the crosswalk which they did. It is obvious that nothing I would ever say would ever get you to agree with me and in your I eyes, I would always be wrong no matter what I did. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 26 14:14:06 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by AlM on Thu Sep 22 17:37:35 2016. Doesn't make it right and doesn't include me. I am usually polite to pedestrians unless they are standing in the middle of the crosswalk on their cell phone oblivious to their surroundings. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 26 14:15:54 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by R30A on Thu Sep 22 14:55:02 2016. I guess no laws apply to pedestrians according to you. And I was being perfectly safe, not dangerous at all, as I have explained numerous times, but that just goes in one ear and out the other. |
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Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 26 14:18:18 2016, in response to Re: Fighting the DOT S(BS) on Woodhaven Blvd, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Sep 26 14:12:55 2016. I certainly did not scare anyone out of the crosswalk.OK, fine. Then why were 20 or so pedestrians crossing outside the crosswalk? |
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