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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 09:36:10 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 5 08:48:56 2019.

Total closure of Montague resulted in a design flaw preventing anything prior to the R44 from using it. Had it remained partially opened, the flaw may have been discover before it was too late.

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(1498871)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 09:37:12 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by ntrainride on Sat Jan 5 08:16:42 2019.

I'd say more like Wisconsin.

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(1498876)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Jan 5 09:58:11 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 02:25:07 2019.

It also doesnít matter in New Jersey, Connecticut or Pennsylvania! Voters in those three states donít care about the L train either! It also doesnít matter to voters in New York who reside north of Interstate 84.

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(1498877)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Jan 5 10:16:38 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 02:34:17 2019.

That is not the MTAís problem. Nor should it be. Itís those commutersí problem for choosing to drive into Manhattan. And yes, it is a choice. Most people in the big suburban counties in Jersey do have alternatives to driving. If not by New Jersey Transit trains, then by NJT buses or private carriers (Academy, ShortLine/Coach USA, etc).

Unfortunately for these same folks driving in from Jersey who may or may not think 14th Street traffic (speaking in general) is unbearable, the MTA and New York State ainít paying for an L train extension under the Hudson River complete with a park-and-ride in Secaucus for them, so they damn well better look for another way in or speak to their own elected officials it!

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(1498878)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 10:20:16 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Jan 4 11:33:41 2019.

2/3rds of NYS residents live in the MTA service area. Most of the upstate's one third is Republican. Upstate Democrats are numerically irrelevant in a Democratic primary.

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(1498880)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by sloth on Sat Jan 5 10:24:58 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Jan 5 09:58:11 2019.

It doesn't matter north of the LIE or east of the Van Wyck. It matters in the moronic fantasies of one guy. Maybe two if you count the governor.

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(1498881)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 10:26:41 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 02:34:17 2019.

Most people from NJ do not drive into Manhattan. They take NJT trains, PATH, and various buses.

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(1498882)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 5 10:29:03 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 09:33:48 2019.

maybe the reason is that the Cuomo plan doesn't actually work.

I'd go with one of the uncomplimentary reasons.

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(1498884)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 5 10:44:54 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by 3-9 on Sat Jan 5 08:09:31 2019.

A shell on a time-bomb of mush waiting to happen.

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(1498886)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Jan 5 10:53:03 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 4 08:28:03 2019.

Bedford has an island platform it makes more sense having sections meet there

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(1498887)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Jan 5 10:58:45 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 4 18:12:26 2019.

Because you know it's true

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(1498928)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 17:46:21 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by sloth on Sat Jan 5 10:24:58 2019.

Or a few loudmouths.

And lets not forget those who sued to try to force changes to the (L) shutdown before this.

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(1498929)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 5 17:47:20 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 10:26:41 2019.

Most, but far from all.

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(1498930)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 5 17:50:44 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 4 17:40:29 2019.

The Multis went on 1961. I think that the reason they werenít kept was because they had a slightly oddball brake system which was somewhere in between the AMUE of the steels and R-9s and the SMEE and the TA didnít want to be bothered with trying to arrange for parts for them.

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(1498935)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 5 18:07:41 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 09:36:10 2019.

IAWTP.

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(1498938)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 5 18:14:07 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Nilet on Sat Jan 5 02:55:05 2019.

There is no reason why any stations have to be skipped. What can be done is that both tracks at Bedford can be kept open. Service between Bedford and Canarsie can be operated on a 10 min headway with alternate trains terminating on the track that is O/S in the tube and alternate trains can operate single tk through the open track. I worked single tk operations involving that tube in all my operating titles except for C/R and as a schedule manager even generated single tk supplement schedules and there were no problems. With the CBTC having replaced the old signaling, the operation should be even smoother.

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(1498947)

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Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 18:33:29 2019, in response to Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by MTA T on Thu Jan 3 13:03:20 2019.

Some observations from 14th street:

- Bike lanes on 12th and 13th have been in for a month. They continue to provide a place for delivery trucks to park without blocking traffic.

- Bus lane markings on 14th were completed about a week or two ago.

- 14th street is extensively torn up from midway between First and A going eastward well east of A, and has been for several months.

- The platforms at the 1 Ave station are untouched, except that plywood walls have been erected making the platforms half width for the 2 east most car lengths. Presumably stairway and elevator work is going on behind the walls.

- For some reason at 5:30 today L trains were running at 4 minute intervals and weren't very full. Most people had seats in both directions.

- The load of people at the station heading to and from Brooklyn was about 25 per train, and 35 to and from 8th Ave. Definitely far less than the weekday load.

- While the trains were pretty empty at 4 minute headways, the same number of people at 20 minute headways wouldn't really fit. But I guess 20 minute headways will help encourage many people to take a different route, like the M.





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(1498948)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 18:35:56 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by zac on Thu Jan 3 22:41:50 2019.

"Because the MTAs answer to everything is that we have to do it the same way we've always done it."

I agree...with one glaring exception, they ordered 75ft R-44's The down side to that is didn't anyone realize those cars couldn't run on the BMT eastern division? How many subways in the world run with three separate car size specs??

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(1498949)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 5 18:40:17 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 18:35:56 2019.

Why is that a big deal?

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 5 18:54:14 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 18:35:56 2019.

How many subways in the world run with three separate car size specs??

MBTA has four.
SEPTA has three.
Tokyo has five (Cape Gauge, Scotch Gauge, Standard Gauge 1.5kvdc, Standard Gauge 3rd rail, and the Oedo line which is incompatible with anything else).

Or to put into perspective, the number of places that the 75' cars can run on NYCT is larger than most North American subway systems, ditto the number of places they can't go. Fleet standardization has its place, but when you're *that big*, you can standardize on 3 sizes.

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(1498957)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 19:16:25 2019, in response to Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 18:33:29 2019.

Maybe this was all a big joke to encourage CitiBike

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(1498958)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 19:19:23 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 18:35:56 2019.

Ronan wanted a mini-M1.

St Louis was stuck on simple SMEE trains of thousand of cars, and was also handed a general spec in which they had to work out the details. The were in way over their heads. That and the Chicago IC Highliner MU car order put them under.

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(1498961)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 19:59:45 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 5 18:40:17 2019.

It was a response to an observation that the MTA always did things the way it's always been done, as in reluctant to change. Ordering 75ft cars was not an ordinary thing to do. Rather radical by MTA mindset standards of the day.

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(1498962)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 20:02:43 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 5 18:54:14 2019.

Thanks for the info. Did not know that.

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(1498963)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 20:07:29 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 19:59:45 2019.

So was ordering M-1's. They had to fight LIRR management. They simply wanted to keep buying MP75's.

Then LIRR rebuilt 10 double-deckers, because they did't want the entire post-war fleet scrapped or converted to diesel service either. Roan was not impressed and they lost that battle too. 620 M-1's cars were enough to scrap the MP54's, all the MP70's, and send the T72's to pushpull service. Then another 150 M-1's (by Canadian Vickers, assembled by GE in Erie) finished off the MP72's and MP75's by 1972.

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(1498964)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 5 20:17:39 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 18:35:56 2019.

How many subways in the world run with three separate car size specs??

The BMT had different car sizes, weight restrictions and third rail pickups. There were the 9 ft. wide El cars mixing with 10 ft wide subway cars. There was el third rail pickup vs. the interborough style pickup. There were weight restrictions that prevented some steel cars from operating on some elevated lines even though these el's had clearance for 10 ft. wide cars.

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(1498967)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 21:03:46 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 5 20:17:39 2019.

Even the Eastern Division had its own restrictions within, i.e. Multis and C types could not run on Myrtle South. Loaded Triplexes they did not run on the Willie B, only as deaheads to ENY.

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(1498969)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 21:23:20 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 5 20:17:39 2019.

"The BMT had different car sizes, weight restrictions and third rail pickups."

But they could run on all/any BMT route that could accomidate 10 ft wide cars.

"There were the 9 ft. wide El cars mixing with 10 ft wide subway cars."

That was only IIRC on the Myrtle north of Broadway. Maybe count in the Culver Shuttle using IRT cars with gap filling skirts.

"There were weight restrictions that prevented some steel cars from operating on some elevated lines even though these el's had clearance for 10 ft. wide cars"

That was on the Fulton St El west of B'way Junction.

But the point of my post is what runs today, not generations ago.

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(1498972)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by R30A on Sat Jan 5 21:27:38 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 5 18:54:14 2019.

Europe is similar in many places- They just split the different sizes into different networks serving the same city...

London is running with at least 4, arguably 5 if you count Tramlink,(And that is just considering profile- There at least have been different length cars within those different groups)

Berlin has 3, (Narrow U-Bahn, Wide U-Bahn and S-Bahn)

Paris has RER and Metro, with a new wider Metro system under construction now. Even on the Metro where everything is roughly the same size, they have two drastically different types of track which aren't compatible at all.

Almost all of the lines in Barcelona are the same size, but the 6 7 and 12 are different, and the 8 is yet another size and gauge!

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(1498974)

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Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?

Posted by Nilet on Sat Jan 5 22:51:44 2019, in response to Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Fri Jan 4 22:24:46 2019.

I didn't see any, but I did catch an M3 on the J-substitute out of Jamaica.

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(1498982)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 5 23:52:11 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by R30A on Sat Jan 5 21:27:38 2019.

I was curious about London, Paris and Germans systems, thanks for the info!

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(1498991)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 02:46:05 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Jan 5 18:54:14 2019.

MBTA only has 3 and SEPTA only has 2. The ďotherĒ sizes are subway/surface which are LRV and not heavy rapid transit.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 02:48:44 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 19:19:23 2019.

Had the R-44 and 46 contracts been awarded to Budd both types probably would still have been with us. You canít really say any car company was stuck on any type of car when they were compelled to follow the specs of the agency ordering them.

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(1498993)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 02:59:01 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 21:03:46 2019.

I doubt that there was any specific reason for not running the D types in the Eastern other than they were designed specifically as a Southern Div car with appropriate signage for Bridge and Tunnel operation. There were basically only two restrictions for BMT cars, 10 ft wide cars and 9 ft wide cars and no subway cars except for Multis on the Fulton St el. Once the outer portion of the Fulton St el was turned over to the IND, the weight restriction went away and the only restriction left was no 10 ft wide cars on Myrtle RR north of Bway. Another lesser known restriction on the BMT had to do with the BX units. Maximum traction trucks do not function well with trailers in the consist as evidenced with the poor performance of the Qs after they were sent to the 3 Av el. The rule on the BMT was only one BX unit was allowed per 6 car or longer train, no Bxs on the Manny B and no single BX units to be operated in short trains. I have heard that the Manny B ban was often ignored, but the restriction was in effect since the BMT was afraid, a train with a BX in the consist wouldn't be able to make the steep grades of the Manny B.

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(1498994)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 03:02:15 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 21:23:20 2019.

That was the Fulton el EAST (RR south) of Bway Jct. Actually the only potion of the remaining Fulton el unrebuilt was between Hinsdale St (actually almost up to the west end of Penna Ave) and Grant Ave.

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(1499003)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jan 6 07:30:39 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 5 19:16:25 2019.

Maybe this was all a big joke to encourage CitiBike

Maybe if you can Citibike your way across the East River. lol

Bill Newkirk

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(1499006)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 07:37:26 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 02:48:44 2019.

Through the R42, every spec was spelled out in detail. With the R44, it was more a functional spec, and St Louis had to figure it out for themselves, which they could not.

Handing a carbuilder a spec on something they have never done is risky. We see that now with Amtrak and CAF, never before being handed a FRA compliant car to construct. The cars are years overdue. They do not know how to weld.

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(1499008)

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Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 6 07:52:38 2019, in response to Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?, posted by Nilet on Sat Jan 5 22:51:44 2019.

Haha, I rode the LIRR between Jamaica and Atlantic Terminal quite a few times this week and it was a M7 every time.


A couple weeks ago I wanted to due a little M3 - Arrow 3 trip during the week. Ride a M3 from Jamaica to Penn and ride an Arrow from Penn to Newark during the PM Rush. I got to Jamaica quite early to increase my chances and every train was a M7 ☹ I did an Arrow 3 with ease though and only had to wait like 5 minutes lol.

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(1499011)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jan 6 08:26:24 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jan 6 07:30:39 2019.

It's a bit early for April Fool's Day.

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Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 09:09:35 2019, in response to Re: Odds Of An R42 Running This Weekend?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 6 07:52:38 2019.

I rode an M-3 to Huntington on Xmas day. It was quite peppy and bouncy.

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(1499014)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 6 09:20:09 2019, in response to Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 18:33:29 2019.

Oh, and somebody had wondered if there was any flat space east of 1 Ave to put crossover switches. There are about 3 car lengths of track before the track starts heading downhill.



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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by MTA T on Sun Jan 6 09:45:49 2019, in response to Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 5 18:33:29 2019.

Everything that was supposed to be done, such as new substations, ADA access at 1st Ave and 6th Ave, reopening the southern mezzanine at Metropolitan Ave G, and reconfiguring the stairs at Union Square L will still be done.

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(1499017)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 09:58:13 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 5 19:59:45 2019.

Ok. Well I'm sure they did extensive testing before placing the order and knew they had a problem sending them out east. How long had they been the mta when ordered 75 ft cars? A year or two?

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 10:07:06 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Jan 6 09:58:13 2019.

I think it was 1967 that MTA took over TA.
R44 came along in 1972. I don't know when they were designed and ordered.

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(1499020)

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Chicago44 on Sun Jan 6 10:41:02 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by MTA T on Sun Jan 6 09:45:49 2019.

But when will the southern mezzanine at Metropolitan Av G train be reopened?

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Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 12:41:19 2019, in response to Re: Work already in progress Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jan 6 08:26:24 2019.

You people laugh except that is what they were actually expecting people to do.

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(1499024)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 6 12:47:33 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 6 02:46:05 2019.

I went with a "if it's shown with equal weight on the subway map, it counts" approach.

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(1499025)

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 6 12:51:06 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 6 07:37:26 2019.

At least the CAF cars were eventually built. Nippon-Sharyo's bilevels on the other hand...

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 12:54:16 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 6 12:47:33 2019.

By that logic, Boston has four with silver and LA has three with silver and orange.

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Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Jan 6 13:01:50 2019, in response to Re: Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jan 6 12:54:16 2019.

I stopped short of rubber tyre, but yes I did consider that.

Also, Boston might be 5. I don't think the Mattapan trolleys and Green line are compatible anymore (if Mattapan still uses trolley pole).

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