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| Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends (1356072) | |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jun 16 20:34:53 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 15 17:38:24 2015. Which is why I think that can work on weekends.As noted, the main purpose would be so the (M) covers the area between Essex and 47-50. The CPW part is simply because 145 is the easiest spot to turn such trains without interfering with other lines and they already do that with the (B) on weekdays. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jun 16 20:35:09 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 16 14:53:59 2015. My last ride on a prewar IND train prior to 2004 was on a CC in July of 1971. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 16 20:55:02 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The Silence on Tue Jun 16 08:34:27 2015. LOL, T/Os!!!! As if they know all the rules in this area! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 16 20:57:03 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jun 16 20:32:43 2015. Only a couple of times. Got them more often as a conductor. Maybe 6 or 7. My intervals were rush hour, so the arnines came out in force. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 16 20:58:11 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jun 16 20:35:09 2015. With the exception of maybe two 42's, the entire CC line was arnines. Hard to miss getting one. ;) |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MTA T on Tue Jun 16 23:11:07 2015, in response to A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by SLRT on Sun Jun 14 21:43:04 2015. Honestly they should just route it to Queens Plaza on weekends so it can terminate there (on that middle relay track east of the station), if they were to run the M in Manhattan on weekends. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jun 17 02:33:17 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 15 17:40:29 2015. True, but the (M) would still be a 6th Avenue Local, which along with the Myrtle-to-Essex portion would have the (M) on its regular route to 47-50 before it would be on weekends shifted to CPW simply because of 145 being the easiest place to turn with 71st-Continental often being unavailable. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jun 17 02:35:39 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MTA T on Tue Jun 16 23:11:07 2015. If they can do that, it would make sense.That said, I believe it's been mentioned that would have the (M) interfere with the (E) doing it that way. That's why I brought up 145 since that's the easiest place to turn without interfering with other lines and still giving Broadway-Brooklyn riders 6th Avenue service and as a(n unintended) bonus on weekends a one-seat ride to the UWS. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 17 03:40:40 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jun 17 02:35:39 2015. What do you mean without interfering with other lines. What about the D, and the C on 6 Av and CPW? At least terminating at Q/P, there would; only be the E to worry about. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jun 17 10:56:51 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jun 17 02:35:39 2015. If they can do that, it would make sense.Which is why your other idea is nonsensical. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 13:22:04 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Jun 17 10:56:51 2015. I think the best balance and least disruptive is simply to send extend the weekend M from Essex to W4th where people can make other connections. The D can go local to 42nd without causing mayhem. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Jun 17 14:35:01 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by jasonnyc on Tue Jun 16 10:29:23 2015. "and it changed itself to a 2 train at 135th. "Interesting. Maybe it became a 2 train because the C/R didn't know how to program the computer for "Brooklyn bound 5 train via the 7th Av line" so he/she just decided to make it a 2. I have been on 2 trains routed via the Lex and the recorded announcements are always "This is a Bronx bound 2 train via the Lexington Av line". "I feel that those of us that ride the IRT in Manhattan are used to seeing the 2 on the 5 or vice versa already." I would not be so sure of that - one time I was on Grand Central and a N/B 2 came in, the appropriate announcements made and people on the platform were still asking "Does this train stop at 59th St, 86th St etc). IMO most of the people who live/work in Manhattan just get on any train that comes in not caring about the number or whether is is staying local (or express). |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jun 17 14:35:26 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 13:22:04 2015. That would require 2 Xover moves in each direction. W4 and 34/6 which would impact the F. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 16:36:25 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 17 14:35:26 2015. Two 10 minute services ought to be able to avoid each other, as do the J and M. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 16:36:36 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 17 14:35:26 2015. Two 10 minute services ought to be able to avoid each other, as do the J and M. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Jun 17 18:22:36 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 13:22:04 2015. I've followed this whole message stream from the start.I think the best balance is simply to have the M-train run between Metropolitan Avenue and Essex/Delancey Streets or due the switch work to Chambers Street on the weekends. Sending the weekend M-train to Essex/Delancey Street or to Chambers Street allows M-train riders the ability to transfer to other lines for midtown or other destinations. Not every route needs to run 365/24/7. The M-train is simply one of those routes, just like the B-train. If the ridership were to approach mid-week ridership levels on a sustained basis, and the financial fortunes of the MTA were to change to the point where the MTA was rolling in cash - then maybe the entire wish-list of ideas could be entertained. If the MTA was a fountain of cash, I'd put that money to better uses in the outer boroughs to spend up commutes with more frequent train and bus service. Sometimes, folks just have to change trains! Mike |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jun 17 20:16:41 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Michael549 on Wed Jun 17 18:22:36 2015. In a perfect world, the MTA would have fixed that faulty switch at Essex St by now! |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 00:39:52 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Wed Jun 17 03:40:40 2015. No different than during the week when the (B) terminates at 145, except there are fewer trains. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 00:50:25 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 17 16:36:25 2015. Right:The (D) would as I would do it would also cross over and run as a local on 6th Avenue in that scenario (which should not be that big a deal and it actually gives riders coming from the (L) at 14th/6th transfers to the (D) and (F) on weekends), obviously crossing back to the express tracks after 34th. Likewise, southbound the (D) would obvious cross over after 42nd and then back to the express tracks before West 4th while the (M) after terminating on the northbound express track at West 4th would use the express tunnel to reverse and then cross over to the local track to begin service there. This as noted elsewhere could also be done late nights to increase transfer options. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 00:56:03 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Michael549 on Wed Jun 17 18:22:36 2015. Actually, Michael:West 4th would be a better spot (as noted in another post) to turn the (M) (even if there are multiple switches involved north of Broadway-Lafayette and West 4th to make it happen with the (D) becoming a 6th Avenue local then) since it would allow Broadway-Brooklyn riders an easier transfer to the (F) at Broadway-Lafayette or West 4th (or the (D) in either spot) plus the (6) at Broadway-Lafayette and the (A) (C) and (E) at West 4th. That is likely the best compromise and could also be done late nights when Broadway-Brooklyn riders would have the same options (except for the (C)) plus also make a direct transfer to the (4) at Broadway-Lafayette. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by menJop on Thu Jun 18 01:30:43 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 15 02:52:35 2015. Andy: Just run it 57th Street, [...] by using the crossover just south of 57th St. Station.Wallyhorse: Except that would interfere with the (F) potentially. Simple: terminate at 57th/6th and relay via Lex/63rd lower, 57th/7th and Lex/63rd upper. </troll> |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:53:20 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 16 19:59:20 2015. The only thing I am anti is you.You are the definition of the word "ASSHOLE". You do not deserve anything you have. You are a hateful, angry person, I use that term loosely, who picks on everyone who won't kiss your ass... |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:56:42 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by R30A on Tue Jun 16 10:36:52 2015. If it's governed by the FRA, by definition it's not a subway. Legal definitions trump public opinions. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:57:38 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 16 15:12:11 2015. Who already ordered it not to happen... |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:59:00 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Jun 16 20:55:02 2015. Again, armchair. The fact they live this on a daily basis makes them automatically smarter on the subject than you are. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 18 11:05:32 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 00:50:25 2015. At that point, you're creating a major disruption to have people avoid a walking transfer at Essex/Delancey. Not worth it unless people can at least get to all the stations on 6th Avenue, as they can during the week. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 11:24:46 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:56:42 2015. Legal definitions trump public opinions.In a court of law, yes. Not in a newspaper, for example. And on a message board, people can call it what they want because there are no rules requiring legal precision of wording. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 11:34:42 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 18 11:05:32 2015. It's not just the walking transfer to the (F) at Broadway-Lafayette:This also would allow those on the (M) to transfer to the (6) (and (4) late nights) at Broadway-Lafayette, the (D) or (F) at EITHER Broadway-Lafayette or West 4th AND the (A) (C) and (E) at West 4th. That's why I would have the (M) to go to West 4th since that at least gets it to where there transfers to several other lines in Manhattan. It also gives riders at 14th and 23rd Street local service from the (D) in addition to the (F), so there is that side benefit as well. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Jun 18 12:07:11 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:56:42 2015. There is no way in which the definition of Subway contradicts with FRA governance. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 18 12:09:09 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 11:24:46 2015. IAWTP |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 13:03:37 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 18 00:56:03 2015. Wallyhorse -I admire you for coming up with an idea and sticking with, and supporting that idea in the face of critical debate. As I said before several of your ideas are repeats of ideas that you have brought up in the past, and these ideas fit within your view of transit. I (and others) however, have also said that some of your ideas are problematic. In the past I've noted your tendency in my words - to "tear up the the subway map" in a way that disrupts the travel of plenty of other riders to achieve your aims. Often these ideas provide little benefit overall to the majority of riders, and benefit only a small un-count-able few. In the case of extending the M-train to 145th Street on a regular weekend basis will affect train travel on the A, C, D and F lines. This would involve train switch operations at 145th Street, 59th Street, 34th Street and Essex Street, along with the usual merging of M-trains both to/from the J-line. For decades on the weekends - CPW local station riders needing Sixth Avenue service simply changed trains at 59th Street-Columbus Circle. In the case of extending the M-train to 57th Street-Sixth Avenue on a regular weekend basis will disrupt train travel on the F-line, especially at the 57th Street-Sixth Avenue because there are no other tracks to route trains around when there is trouble. The switch operations near 57th Street, and at Essex Street, along with the usual merging of M-trains both to/from the J-line. In the case of extending the M-train to the West Fourth Street station on a regular weekend basis will disrupt train travel on both the D, F and M trains. As you, Wallyhorse have noted a series of switch operations will have to take place to route D-trains both to/from the express tracks at both 34th Street and at West 4th Street, your M-trains will also have to be switched to/from the local and express tracks, and between the express tracks. These kinds of operations can easily cause disruptions on the D, F and M trains, along with the usual merging of M-trains both to/from the J-line. (I note the history train switch problems at the Brighton Beach-BMT, and 96th Street-IRT subway stations - as the past informing the present or the proposed. Why repeat such mistakes?) I have been reading and keeping up with this entire thread of discussion. I believe that the best thing to do in this case is to terminate the weekend M-trains at Essex/Delancey Streets or better at the Chambers Street stations. This allows M-train riders ample transfers to other lines for trips further on in Manhattan. In addition, the ability or need to transfer at Essex/Delancy Streets has existed for decades - it is a familiar operation on the part of J and M train riders. I believe that there are very few Manhattan-based A, C and E train riders NEEDING to transfer to the Brooklyn portion of the M-train. Using the F-train as the "transfer connector" between these lines has existed for decades for the few riders that need to do so. A strong case could be made for having the weekend M-train end at Chambers Street regularly - allowing easier transfers to/from the J-train, the east-side lines, and the Canal Street complex. There does not seem to be a single trip-type that is completely impossible to accommodate. Again this is another of your proposals that benefit few riders and has the potential to disrupt plenty of other riders. Mike |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Jun 18 13:29:01 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:56:42 2015. If it's governed by the FRA, by definition it's not a subway.LOL, completely wrong! Way to extend your streak! When you're in a hole, it's ALWAYS a good idea to keep digging, right? You wouldn't consider even for a second that you may be wrong... |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Jun 18 13:32:20 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:53:20 2015. The only thing I am anti is you.Nope, you're an antisemite. You are the definition of the word "ASSHOLE".How so? Because I, and several others, correctly pointed out that you were, and still are, completely wrong, on this and several other issues? You do not deserve anything you have.Wrong, I deserve everything I have. You are a hateful, angry person, I use that term loosely, who picks on everyone who won't kiss your ass...Huh? Who am I picking on? Tell you that you're wrong, when you ARE wrong, is "picking on you"? WTF? |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Thu Jun 18 14:26:10 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Jun 18 13:32:20 2015.  |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:10:59 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 13:03:37 2015. I agree with most of what you say, but sending the M to Chambers St on weekends as a full time service is an actual REROUTE of a 6 Av service which turning at Essex St is not since it is merely a shortlining of service on one of its regular stops. Turning Ms at Chambers St while the switch at Essex is O/S Is OK since it is only temporary. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:32:00 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by menJop on Thu Jun 18 01:30:43 2015. Relaying back to 57/7 would interfere with Q trains that are turning there now and after the SAS opens, that would cause as much disruption as turning on the mainline at 57/6. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:47:13 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by R30A on Thu Jun 18 12:07:11 2015. Correct. It is a de facto subway, but a de jure railroad. Just placing it under federal jurisdiction by virtue of it’s being an interstate carrier doesn’t change the physical characteristics of it as a subway since a large portion of it runs underground. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 18 15:48:27 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:47:13 2015. AWESOME POST! |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:49:10 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The silence on Thu Jun 18 09:57:38 2015. If the MTA generates schedules like the late 1980s F which did change the letter enroute then it is in effect not only allowing it but mandating it. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 15:53:20 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:49:10 2015. Not to mention that the original poster's idea can be implemented without changing the designation mid-trip. Make the whole northbound trip a B and the whole southbound trip an M. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jun 18 16:33:53 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 15:53:20 2015. How would you even show this on the map or the station signs without some kind explanation or disclaimer? People rarely read "the fine print." |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 18:15:41 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:10:59 2015. Again I agree with most of what you say.If there had to be a comparison between the current weekend J-train and the weekend Essex Street M train - I'd say that the J-train has the better set of transfer opportunities. Riders on the J-train (to Broad Street) can easily transfer to other transit lines without interfering with the other transit lines by the switching of tracks, etc. Especially in light of the discussion about a possible re-routing of the M-train. I'd re-create a portion of the Brown M-train on the weekends simply in order to not have a designated Sixth Avenue service being sent to where it usually does not go. These Brown-M trains could travel from to either Essex Street or Chambers Street, for example, during the day/evening times, while the midnight shuttle operates out of Broadway/Myrtle Avenue. Now I realize that some folk's heads will explode at the mere suggestion of such an idea, but unfortunately there won't be film or video to record such an event. (Ha, ha) In any case, one day (or month or year) the switches at Essex Street will be repaired, and the M-train (of whatever color) will again terminate there. Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 18:29:25 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 13:03:37 2015. I do no agree sending the M disrupts D's and F's. The is a TA-like excuse to do nothing. Sending M's to Chambers serves no commercial purpose. The few that want to go past Essex can take the J.The D can go local and it need not interfere with the F. The F already shares the local tracks with the M on weekdays. If a different service comes off the express track onto the local with the F, rather than up from Essex onto the local, so what. Two 10 minute services can merge. It happens all day all over the system. In fact, the F runs every 4 minutes, merging with the M that runs every 8 or so during the rush, and all hell does not break loose. The M can relay north of W4th unhindered. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by The Silence on Thu Jun 18 19:07:30 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Jun 18 13:32:20 2015. Nope, you're an antisemite.Threating you does not make me an antisemite, it makes me a good person. you think that your background is a get out of jail free card? If anything is offensive to anyone it's that. "Oh, I'm Jewish, you can't be mean to me!" One get's what one deservers. How so? Because of everything you've ever done to people here. you are a bully of the worst kind Because I, and several others, incorrectly pointed out that you were, and still are, completely You pass along information with no sources, yet have the gal to bitch when others do the same. Wrong, I deserve everything I have. No, the only thing you deserve is to be expelled from this planet. Does you family know what you do all day? how do they feel knowing they live with a cyberbully? "Tell you that you're wrong, when you ARE wrong, is "picking on you"? WTF? posting "anti-Semite" in other threads? yea, that's harassment. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 19:43:59 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 18:29:25 2015. In my previous message, I cited two stations, and now I will cite three stations - DeKalb Avenue.I will detail the historical train switch problems at the Brighton Beach-BMT, and 96th Street-IRT subway stations - as the past informing the present or the proposed. Why repeat such mistakes? West 96th Street-IRT - Until about the mid-1950's the TA operated the following set of services on the west-side IRT lines: - A Broadway-Seventh Avenue Express from Van Cortlandt Park to either New Lots Avenue or Flatbush Avenue; - A Seventh Avenue Express from West 180th Street-Bronx Zoo to either New Lots Avenue or Flatbush Avenue; - A Broadway-Seventh Avenue local from 137th Street-City College to South Ferry, and - A Lenox-Seventh Avenue local from 145th Street to South Ferry. Basically two express routes and two local routes converged on the 96th Street station. The trains that traveled the longer distances were the express routes in Manhattan. (The eastside lines more resembled the current route numbers.) In any case two routes, the Broadway-7 Avenue local (to/from 137th Street), and the 7th Avenue Express (Bronx to/from Brooklyn local) were the straight rail routes. The other routes (Broadway-7th Avenue Express to/from Van Cortlandt), and the Lenox-Broadway local (to/from 145th Street) had to be switch both to and from the express and local tracks, where in this case all switch operations occurred on the same level. The TA recognized by the mid-1950's that the chris-crossing of trains delayed train service in both directions negatively affecting service in the Bronx, Upper Manhattan and Brookyn. (See http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IRT_West_Side_Line) The TA decided that all of the express trains would use Lenox Avenue, while all local trains would remain on Broadway - eliminating the need for any trains to cross paths. Mike |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 18 20:01:37 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 16 14:41:33 2015. " I believe also the GG was 3 cars."Yep on Saturdays & Sundays, GG's were 3 cars. I remember taking my "college board" exams at Bryant Hs. on some Sat. in 1968. Riding a 3 car GG local to & from 65th St & 46th St. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:03:15 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 19:43:59 2015. Criss-crossing 2 10-minutes services can be done without problems.All that you mentioned were done rush hours, and using as excuses to do nothing. Running empty trains to Chambers does nothing for anybody. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 20:05:29 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 18:29:25 2015. In my previous message, I cited two stations, and now I will cite three stations - DeKalb Avenue.I will detail the historical train switch problems at the Brighton Beach-BMT, and 96th Street-IRT subway stations - as the past informing the present or the proposed. Why repeat such mistakes? During the late 1960's and up to the mid-1970's - the TA operated three services out of the Brighton Beach subway station, the rush hours only QB (Brighton Beach to 57th Street-Seventh Avenue), the normal hours QJ (from 168th Street-Jamaica to Brighton Beach), and the full-time D train (from 205th Street to Coney Island). The QB and QJ trains were the Brighton local trains, while the D-train was the normal hours express route - namely express from 6am to 8pm, Monday to Friday. See http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-1967-system.gif These routes required the chris-crossing of QB and QJ local trains to the center express tracks for the terminate and relay operation at Brighton Beach. As well as the switching of D-trains both to and from the local and express tracks at the Brighton Beach station. Basically the two sets of train routes had to cross each other - meaning train delays and tie-ups. By or around 1968 the TA remedied the problem by changing the normal hours terminal of the D-train to Brighton Beach, and changing the terminals of the QB and QJ local trains to Coney Island. This is similar to the debate in all of the Jurassic Park movies, the idea and difference between whether something that CAN BE DONE and whether something SHOULD BE DONE. The MTA can operate THEIR TRAINS any way they want to - it IS their railroad. What we often debate is whether something should be done, even when we know that idea is possible. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 20:06:57 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:03:15 2015. The period of times that I was talking about not only occurred during the rush hours, but during the day-times, evenings, weekends and late nights.Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:10:28 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 20:06:57 2015. I understand that, but it did not cause havoc 7/24/365 |
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