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| Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends (1356072) | |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:16:48 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 18 15:32:00 2015. Send the M to SAS weekends, leave the Q at 57th / 7th.No "criss-crossing" either. I know , "confusion", can't do that. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jun 18 20:20:19 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 16 20:57:03 2015. What did you think of that console? |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 20:24:31 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:16:48 2015. Send the M to SAS all the time and the Q to Continental weekdays. No confusion, just a criss-cross. :) |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:26:55 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 18 20:24:31 2015. Q to Continental weekdays: kind of redundant with the R. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 20:29:36 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 18:29:25 2015. In my previous message, I've already cited two stations, and now I will cite the last - DeKalb Avenue.The DeKalb Avenue station has been long cited by many as a bottle-neck for the southern-Brooklyn former BMT lines. Where train routes of almost every branch crossed-over to another branch. http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-1968-system.gif http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/system_1972.jpg http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-1978-system.gif http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-1997-august-sub-rus.gif http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-2001-07-22.gif http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.pl?/img/maps/calcagno-2004-02-22.gif On this forum (and other forums) the TA's 2004 decision to route D-trains to the West-End line, to route the part-time B-train service to the Brighton line, and to have both N and D trains skip the DeKalb Avenue station at all times except midnight hours - have created almost end-less debate ever since. The TA's basic reasoning was the elimination of train cross-traffic both into and out of the Pacific Street station, where all 4th Avenue local and express service must use a single track (in each direction) prior to entering or after leaving the DeKalb Avenue station, and the subsequent merging with trains on other tracks. This operation & the switching of trains among the various tracks occurred not only during the rush hours, but during the day-times, evenings, weekends and late nights. The TA felt that this bottle-neck was hindering train traffic in all directions. Of course having both N and D trains skip the DeKalb Avenue station meant the removal of the single platform transfer & Sixth Avenue service especially on the weekends. The resulting TA's suggestion to transfer between trains at the Atlantic Avenue-Barclay Center complex still has yet to be greeted favorably by many transit fans. Yes, the gripping continues! The MTA can operate THEIR TRAINS any way they want to - it IS their railroad. What we often debate is whether something should be done, even when we know that idea is possible. Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:41:59 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Thu Jun 18 20:29:36 2015. And despite all that, the 6, 7, and R are all daily disasters.The 6 and 7 don't interface with any other lines. They ran far more trains though Dekalb with plentiful use of the crossovers 50-60 years ago than now, especially through Montague, and ran far better than now. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 03:37:47 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:10:28 2015. Right:This is about having the (M) go to West 4th (on a potentially PERMANENT basis) on weekends and late nights when disruption of switching tracks between Broadway-Lafayette and West 4th northbound and before West 4th southbound (and the (D) merging/unmerging with the (F) between there and again between 34th and 42nd would be minimal at worst in most cases. West 4th used to in fact BE a terminal for some trains in the days before the express tunnel was built (prior to opening in 1968), so it could be again for a weekend/late night (M) train that would better serve Broadway-Brooklyn riders as they would have easy transfers to the other 6th Avenue trains at Broadway-Lafayette OR West 4th, the (6) (and (4) late nights) at Broadway-Lafayette) and the (A) and (E) (and (C) outside of late nights) at West 4th. THAT is worth having relatively minimal disruptions (if any at all) on the 6th Avenue line to do this. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 03:40:19 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:41:59 2015. That is true:What I'm proposing with West 4th is on Weekends and Late Nights for the (M) is when fewer trains are running and as noted elsewhere the chances of a disruption elsewhere are minimal. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 06:58:14 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 16 12:40:29 2015. Yep. Legally a railroad- but it looks, sounds, and feels like a subway. That's how I think of it, and describe it to non-railfans.But I do not dispute its legal status. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:10:11 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Andy on Sun Jun 14 22:12:12 2015. Transforming an F into a Q mid-run must've been a real pain in the days before electronic signage... |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:13:07 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Tue Jun 16 14:41:33 2015. What were weekend crowds like in the 1960s? Nowadays, at least, a train that goes anywhere near a major museum is packed on Saturday and Sunday... |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jun 19 07:19:14 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:10:11 2015. I think the signs just said "F", it was a "Q" only on the map. Later there may have been special "F/Q" signs.IIRC, the service guide on the maps made it sound like the late-night F trains terminated at 47-50 St., and separate Q shuttles ran from there to 57 St., but really it was the same train. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:20:50 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Allan on Wed Jun 17 14:35:01 2015. Well, I think a major distinction is here is whether the 2/5 is running Brooklyn or Bronx bound.If you're in Manhattan, headed to Brooklyn, the 2 & 5 will get you to the same point in Brooklyn- all they need to do is announce whether the train will run local or express along Eastern Parkway- and, when things get backed up or otherwise hairy, locals and expresses, even on non-rerouted trains get switched often enough. But headed to the Bronx, the 1,2,4,5, and 6 are going to really different places (except for Nereid 5s). So- if you're on the Lex Avenue line headed north, and needing to get to the Dyre branch, you KNOW that a 2 won't get you there. So, headed uptown, I think even re-routed IRT trains need to keep their proper identity. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:22:33 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jun 16 20:35:09 2015. I got you beat- I remember an Arnine on the F in 1975- when I was 7. Hated it at the time. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:25:29 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 15 17:40:29 2015. I'm going to repeat my notion of letting the D be a full time local on CPW and the Concourse, and the B can be a weekday express (peak direction only on Concourse).Nice, non-confusing service pattern, with lots of access to everyone. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 08:13:05 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 03:40:19 2015. I'd still leave the M as a Shuttle overnight. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 08:14:02 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jun 19 07:19:14 2015. I think there was an orange "F/Q" on the mylar. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Jun 19 08:21:18 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by The Silence on Thu Jun 18 19:07:30 2015. Threating youYou didn't threaten me. Threating you does not make me an antisemite, it makes me a good person.No, it makes you a bad person. Are you on mind-altering illegal drugs? you think that your background is a get out of jail free card?WTF are you talking about? If anything is offensive to anyone it's that. "Oh, I'm Jewish, you can't be mean to me!"WTF? Are you having a seizure? One get's what one deservers.Correct. When you post lies, you get corrected, and when you refuse to admit you were wrong and refuse to apologize, you get called out for it. And when you continue to repeat the lies after being told several times to stop, then you get ridiculed for it. Don't want that? Then don't post lies after being told to stop. Because of everything you've ever done to people here.Such as? you are a bully of the worst kindHow so? You pass along information with no sourcesI do? Link? And if I have, I've done it for every good reason. yet have the gal to bitch when others do the same.Huh? That's not what you did. I don't think that means what you think it means. No, the only thing you deserve is to be expelled from this planet.Nope. Does you family know what you do all day?Of course. Do you? how do they feel knowing they live with a cyberbully?They don't feel anything because they don't live with a cyberbully. You are making light of a very serious issue. Cyberbullying it not to be made fun of. posting "anti-Semite" in other threads? yea, that's harassment.LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! No! "posting "anti-Semite" in other threads" is FACT. Posting antisemitic comments on SubChat is DISGUSTING. You are a DESPICABLE person. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 08:34:56 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:25:29 2015. That's the same policy as the B & Q on the Brighton.The TA is not always so consistent. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jun 19 13:05:15 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:20:50 2015. While I generally agree with your points - I believe that subway riders have to understand the concept of "transfer points".That is the stations where a major decision or a transfer to another route is possible, or would really be needed to complete one's journey. These are the stations where one can "tell the difference" between trains going either to/from one place or another. Take your example of the 1,2,4,5 and 6 - and using the Lexington Avenue subway headed north. To me there are 3 transfer/important stations - 125th Street (a must for the northern #6 train), the 149th Street-Grand Concourse station (a must that separates #4 and #5 trains), and the East 180th Street station (a must that separates #2 and #5 trains). Often if a person is able to get to one of those transfer/important points - usually the proper information will be given out for the next steps to take. For the westside/Brooklyn line, the transfer/important points are 96th Street, Chambers Street, Nevins Street, and Franklin Avenue. Paying attention and making note of the situation at the very important/transfer stations really help when trains are re-routed off of their usual paths. I know that for the other lines there are several other important/transfer stations that I not listed. Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 19 15:28:29 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jun 19 03:37:47 2015. W 4 St was only a terminal for midday and Sat Bs between the time Chrystie opened until 57/6 opened when 57/6 became the terminal for non rush hour Bs and rush hour KKs. The express tracks opened as soon as Chrystie did and rush hour Bs and Ds used them. Ds only ran lcl on 6 Av during non rush hours until 57/6 opened when Ds became a full time 6 Av express. The midday use of W 4 St as a terminal was only temporary to allow West End passengers access to the 6 Av corridor pending the opening of 57/6 and was not intended to be a permanent service plan. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 19 15:33:13 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 18 20:16:48 2015. However, trains coming from the SAS would have to use the Xover S/O Lex/63 to access 6 Ave. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 15:38:38 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 19 15:28:29 2015. So ? |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 15:39:12 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 19 15:33:13 2015. Yes it would. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jun 20 04:13:20 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 15:38:38 2015. Doesn't mean West 4th can't be used a terminal now on weekends/holidays/late nights for the (M) to bring it to a sensible transfer point for Broadway-Brooklyn riders and giving them transfers to the Lexington Avenue (6 plus 4 in overnights at Broadway-Lafayette), 6th Avenue (D and F at Broadway-Lafayette AND West 4th) and 8th Avenue (A/C/E at West 4th) lines.It would mean the (D) would have to make two switches between the express and local tracks between Broadway-Lafayette and 42nd Street northbound and southbound between 42nd and West 4th while the (M) would switch to the express track north of Broadway-Lafayette so it can terminate at West 4, use the express tunnel to switch to the southbound side and cross to the southbound local track before West 4, but at times when fewer trains are running and chances for disruptions are minimal. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jun 20 04:15:28 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 08:13:05 2015. Not sure that can be the case as that part of Brooklyn continues to grow. Having it consistently go to West 4th at all times (including overnights) makes sense because it allows for multiple transfers to other lines via a one-seat ride. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 20 07:00:41 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jun 20 04:13:20 2015. W4th was a temp terminal for the West End Express until 57th & 6th was built, and poorly designed at that. Fast-forward 45 years, that service has since been extended to the Bronx, the full-time Brighton service is back on Broadway, 57/6 can no longer be use as a terminal, and another BMT branch, the Myrtle Av, has risen up on weekends and needs deeper penetration into Manhattan.Therefore, there is no need to stick to 1969 scripture that no service must ever again terminate at W4th, or create cockamamie excuses that off-peak trains must not switch tracks at interlockings. There may even be people from the West End Line who wish to get off at a gentrified Chelsea at 14th and 23rd. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jun 20 10:56:47 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:25:29 2015. Concourse riders would not be happy about losing weekend express service down CPW. But I suppose they'd get used to it. For some, not having to change for the local would be an advantage. But running the B up the Concourse (to Bedford Park?) middays would require a few extra train sets and crews. And the center track at Bedford Park Blvd. connects only with the local tracks; a train cannot run between the center track at Kingsbridge Rd. and the center track at Bedford Park. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 20 18:02:55 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jun 20 10:56:47 2015. I hadn't thought of the psychological, and potential political effects of losing weekend CPW express service for Concourse riders. Common sense, which is unfortunately often lacking, would point out to people that now there'd be no need to switch to (and wait for!) the C for all the local stops.As for the switch issues on the Concourse- run the B to 145th middays, as is done now, to 205th rush hours and let the D end at BPB when the B is on the concourse. Of course, that puts back some of the confusion about what train is running at a particular station and when. OR...just let the D run local on CPW when there is no B. But then there's a major stretch where different routes would be stopping at stations at different times. Think of it this way- from at least the time of Chrystie (11/67), until 1973 or so, the A was full time local on Fulton Street, and the E was express when it was there. Sort of like the B&Q on the Brighton right now. But then, they made the E (later, the CC) local on Fulton when the A was express, and the A local when there was no E/CC. As was the case with the D/M/QB on Brighton. That can be quite confusing at local stations. I think that as long as it's generally practical, the local route should be the 24/7 route and the express simply not be there when there is no express. I realize that would not work well on 4th Avenue. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 20 18:04:15 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jun 19 07:19:14 2015. I have maps from those days. I'll try to remember to check that out.. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Jun 20 18:39:06 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jun 20 18:02:55 2015. From a previous message:"I think that as long as it's generally practical, the local route should be the 24/7 route and the express simply not be there when there is no express. I realize that would not work well on 4th Avenue." The basic problem is that the D-train as the rush-hours Concourse Express, and the full-time CPW express, and Sixth Avenue service has existed since the 1940's! The rush hours only local on the Grand Concourse was the CC, and now it is the B train. When it comes to designing train routes a lot factors and ideas come into play - straight-rail ideas, longest distance ideas, the physical factors of the stations-tracks-facilities, what the riders will or will not tolerate, political actors and similar factors, and other ideas. Then there is history, useful practices of the past, some limited options on the present, and the involvement or non-involvement or the disdain of the general public who just want the trains to run, and ..., and .... There are times when "folks" want the longer distance routes to be the express routes - and have little preference for long local routes. There are times when the longer distance routes have little real express service no matter how much it is wished for. There are times when "folks" seem to have a high hatred of local routes with either many or few stops. They express a preference for the "almighty express" even when there are few times savings or many stops by-passed. Then there are the folks and their political allies that really, really prefer express service or certain kinds of service, and their votes are needed for crucial things to happen. Then there are the times - when no matter what ever is decided SOMEBODY will not be happy, and they will complain, and complain, and complain! The subways need money, manpower and organization. The trains are not automated in such a way as to run completely by themselves, nor will the trains fix themselves. Nothing done in the subway is cost-free, but everything involves trade-offs. Sometimes gardening seems like a better hobby. (Ha, ha) Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jun 21 02:52:25 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 20 07:00:41 2015. Exactly:There likely are people on West End who would be looking for 14th and 23rd who would not have to transfer, and likewise, those at Columbus Circle, 125th, 145th and points north would not have to either for those stations. Main thing would be to make it so the (M) has a much easier transfer to the (6) (and (4) overnights) as well as other 6th and 8th Avenue lines weekends and late nights by having it go to West 4 then. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 21 19:59:31 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jun 21 02:52:25 2015. From a previous message:"There likely are people on West End who would be looking for 14th and 23rd who would not have to transfer, and likewise, those at Columbus Circle, 125th, 145th and points north would not have to either for those stations." Wallyhorse - If you are so worried about folks using the West-End line to be able to access the 14th Street and 23rd Street stations - why does this concern only extend toward the weekends? I'll tell you why! You're only really concerned about extending the M-train to West 4th Street, and you'll screw with other lines to do so. It's that simple. You are predictable - because in the past you have expressed such "concern" in order to achieve your preferred re-arrangement of train routes. Wallyhorse - As usual you want to make the rides of Bronx Concourse riders longer in order to privelege folks along Central Park West, just in case those folks want to use a Sixth Avenue local station. As usual - this is your brand of making trips worse for large numbers of folks for smaller groups of folks. You predictable with your usual methods of thinking and operation. Mike |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jun 21 22:59:49 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jun 19 13:05:15 2015. Well, yes- passengers need to pay attention to where their train, and by extension, they are going.I was just giving my thoughts on why on the Manhattan IRT, it's particularly wise to designate trains by their Bronx destinations. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jun 21 23:00:41 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 19 08:34:56 2015. Exactly |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Jun 22 02:14:22 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jun 21 22:59:49 2015. Understand that I'm not dis-agreeing with you.I went to high school in the mid-1970's, and I lived in the eastern part of the Bronx near 180th Street, and then near Parkchester. My high school was on 59th Street at Tenth Avenue on the west-side. My first set of directions was to take the #2 to 72nd Street and change for the #1 to 59th Street, and walk it. Then I also had to take a bus to the train station. On one of my first days to school, no one told me what to do if I missed getting off the #2 train at 72nd Street. Then I knew very little about the subways, transfers, connections. Before I completely panicked other riders on the train told me what to do at the next stop - Times Square. Our family moved near Parkchester and the #6 train, and I learned a whole new set of travel directions. In those days, many of the trains had conflicting signage, the announcements on the public address systems were often garbled, and there was plenty of graffitti on the trains. I learned to watch out for the 149th Street-Gtand Concourse station and to figure out if the train was to head down the east-side or the west-side of Manhattan. Plenty of times trains would get re-routed, and the train you were on was not going where you hoped. As I learned more about the subways, I had several ways to get to chool in mid-town. The signal lights at that station were instructive - once I had them figured out. Plenty of times on the way home on the #6 train, I'd fall asleep. It was the 1970's, and often I'd catch the #6 train at Grand Central station. Frequently I'd fall asleep and upon waking up I'd check the windows to see where I was. St. Lawrence Avenue was my home station stop making the Parkchester local important. Finding myself on the #6 Pelham Bay express could easily mean going past my stop, if I was not aware of my surroundings. Besides the indicators on the trains, knowing your train line, the various transfer points and important stations is very useful. For whatever reasons trains get re-routed, or one has to take a different pathway. Transit knowledge helps. Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 22 03:26:28 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 21 19:59:31 2015. That's only a small part of it:The (D) would STILL be express on CPW weekends and late nights with only additional stops added at 14th and 23rd. This would be so the (M) can use the express tracks to terminate at West 4th and give those riders better transfer options. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jun 22 16:52:50 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 21 19:59:31 2015. No, Wallyhorse isn't advocating making the D the CPW local. Such makes sense and should be done today, so of course Wallyhorse is not suggesting such! |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 22 17:50:22 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 21 19:59:31 2015. Extending the M train to W4th does not "screw the other lines".Evidently you think subway trains are monorails and cannot switch tracks. It has also been explained to you that 2 10-minute services can swap tracks without "screwing them". You cannot correlate lack of use of interlockings with smoothing the service flow because the 6 & 7 are two of the 3 worst run lines in the city, whereas the Broadway Local and Forth Ave Local service levels are at historic lows and the R trains is also a disaster, without any interference from Brighton or Nassau Street trains. Dumbing down operations does not improve dispatching competency. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 22 18:06:50 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jun 21 19:59:31 2015. " Bronx Concourse riders longer in order to privelege folks along Central Park West,"They can transfer to the A that runs express or they can take #4. CPW to midtown traffic benefits with service doubled. But according to you, acccessing CPW is a "privilege". You sound like the TA's service planning PR department. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Jun 22 23:16:25 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 22 18:06:50 2015. From a previous message:"You sound like the TA's service planning PR department." PLEASE DO NOT INSULT ME! I am no shill for the MTA Service Planning or Public Relations Department! - I simply do not see a good enough reason to change the operations of the D-train - either on Central Park West or on Sixth Avenue. - I simply do not believe that more people would be helped by making the D-train take on more local stops in Manhattan. I do not believe Grand Concourse riders will be helped by making the D-train take on more local stops. - I simply do not see any benefit to extending the M-train to West 4th Street because, in my opinion very few people would benefit. I have said what I thought - you disagree. I did not insult you for thinking differently than I do. Wallyhorse in the past has made similar proposals and ideas to "re-route things" that often serve few people, with ideas that would make subway trips more difficult and time consuming for others. That is his pattern. I been on plenty of C-trains that got held outside of Hoyt-Schermerhorn station, and at Canal Street on the journey to work waiting for A-trains or E-trains to pass before the C-train could proceed. Or on #6 express trains headed to Castle Hill Avenue in the Bronx - so yes, I do understand trains switching from track to track and being held by other trains. I do prefer straight rail running as much as possible - yes. I do prefer traffic patterns that work well and are well understood by the riders - yes. I do prefer not making the subways more complicated for no or little benefit for the majority of riders - yes. Will I speak my mind when there are proposals or ideas that I do not agree with - damn well yes! Just being me! Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Jun 22 23:16:44 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 22 17:50:22 2015. From a previous message:"You cannot correlate lack of use of interlockings with smoothing the service flow because the 6 & 7 are two of the 3 worst run lines in the city, whereas the Broadway Local and Forth Ave Local service levels are at historic lows and the R trains is also a disaster, without any interference from Brighton or Nassau Street trains." In none of my messages or responses in this thread have I referred to the #6 or #7 trains. Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jun 22 23:21:28 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Mon Jun 22 23:16:25 2015. The case for running the D local on CPW when the B doesn't operate is far stronger than extending the M to anywhere that isn't Queens Boulevard or running the D local on 6th Avenue. |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 23 00:51:58 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jun 22 03:26:28 2015. It would also require a lot of switchings between West 4th and 2nd Ave stations. You would see this if you had a copy of Peter Dougherty's, "TRACKS of the New York City SUBWAY" book. Do you have a copy? |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jun 23 01:57:25 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 23 00:51:58 2015. I know about the switches and those are reflected.We are talking about late nights and weekends, when switching would not likely disrupt train service too much the way I would do it. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by FarRock on Tue Jun 23 09:35:38 2015, in response to A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by SLRT on Sun Jun 14 21:43:04 2015. During the weekend the weekend (M)s can run to Continent but during late nights it can always turn north of Queens Plaza |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 23 12:05:12 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jun 23 01:57:25 2015. You know about the switches? Did you miss the part where you can't switch southbound from the express track to the local one (B3 to B1) on Houston St? |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Jun 23 12:43:44 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 22 18:06:50 2015. The MTA operates THEIR TRAINS any way THEY WANT want to - it IS THEIR RAILROAD.We on this and other forums can say whatever we like, think, hope for, understand and dream about when it comes to the subways, buses and transportation. None of that however changes a very basic fact - the MTA operates THEIR TRAINS the way THEY WANT want to because it IS THEIR RAILROAD. If you call being on this forum a hobby (as well as interested in transit) - this is a hobby where NONE of us has to pull out of our wallets the billions needed to operate, improve, plan, build, devise, repair or maintain a very complex transportation enterprise. What we often debate is whether something should be done, even when we know that idea is possible. As hobby members we do not even have to agree on what we agree about - that is the essence of debate. As hobby members we are not "responsible" for the subways - the MTA is. At times the MTA reports its reasons for doing things or not doing things. Whether we agree, disagree, approve or not approve any of those actions, reasons, non-actions, etc. None of that REALLY MATTERS! The MTA operates THEIR TRAINS any way THEY WANT want to - it IS THEIR RAILROAD. We may or may not have any influence on activities, actions or operations - who knows. We are just transit fans. We as hobbyists are free to debate is whether something should be done, even when we know that idea is possible. That among other things is what makes this hobby enjoyable - at least for me. Just being me! Mike |
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Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jun 23 13:00:51 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jun 23 12:05:12 2015. The D would Xover from the lcl to the exp tk NORTH of W 4 St but even with that. I don’t think it would be a good idea. |
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Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Jun 23 13:23:08 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jun 19 07:22:33 2015. Northbound F with ten R-1/7's at Ditmas Avenue some time after 9PM in early spring 1975.RTO will runs what ever Car Equipment has available to make service. |
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