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| LION on Metro North Collision (1338206) | |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by mkeit on Thu Feb 5 22:27:33 2015, in response to LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 5 22:05:46 2015. The street is an exit/entrance to the parkway; elevating it will eliminate this. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu Feb 5 22:59:27 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by mkeit on Thu Feb 5 22:27:33 2015. Which would also be a good thing. That aspect of it would probably save more lives than the road/rail separation. Those stoplight intersections in the middle of a parkway are nonsensical. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1338212) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by steamdriven on Thu Feb 5 23:19:21 2015, in response to LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 5 22:05:46 2015. Warning, mature content: May induce conniptions among the frequently offended ;-)Being dead only changes who casts their vote, not whether they vote. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 01:05:41 2015, in response to LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 5 22:05:46 2015. There are thousands of Commerce Streets in the US. Elevating them all is extremely expensive. The chance of another accident precisely on Commerce Street is very low.Ms. Brody stopped her vehicle on railroad tracks. She probably did so because she was in a highly flustered state, not out of time-saving greed. But still, short of removing every grade level crossing, the answer has to be in getting people not to do that. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:33:30 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by mkeit on Thu Feb 5 22:27:33 2015. Yes. And so what. There is other access to the parkway, and the parkway does not need to have an intersection on it.ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:34:39 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by steamdriven on Thu Feb 5 23:19:21 2015. LION thought of this. But then this is not Chicago.ND requires picture ID, but has no voter registration. ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:36:13 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 01:05:41 2015. THIS particular crossing needs to be eliminated.MOST RR Crossings *should* be looked at. Some can be eliminated. ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 6 07:52:50 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:33:30 2015. This section of the Taconic State Parkway (TSP) is an orphan.It was bypassed when the Sprain Brook Parkway (SBP) was completed. The TSP was widened and modernized north of the junction with the SBP. The short section of the TSP south of the junction serves as a local road between the SBP junction and the Bronx River Parkway (BRP) near the Kensico Dam. |
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| (1338237) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by steamdriven on Fri Feb 6 08:21:57 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:34:39 2015. Sadly, we have no LIONS guarding the laws of voting here.We must raise some... got any cubs? |
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| (1338238) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by steamdriven on Fri Feb 6 08:23:27 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 01:05:41 2015. "There are thousands of Commerce Streets in the US. Elevating them all is extremely expensive. The chance of another accident precisely on Commerce Street is very low."Nailed it. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 08:57:36 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:36:13 2015. THIS particular crossing needs to be eliminated.I don't necessarily disagree, but why this particular one? Because of the traffic light at the Taconic? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:04:14 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 08:57:36 2015. Because of almost zero space between the Tacky Parkway and the Tracks. Apparently it was busy enough for traffic to be incing along. That by itself suggest a correction.ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:22:58 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:04:14 2015. HERE is the map of the crash area. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:25:14 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:04:14 2015. HERE is the map of the crash area. There are intersections with the TP both north and south of this location. It does not need this one, and this one is the most problematic vis a vis MNCR. ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 10:31:06 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:04:14 2015. it has zero space , as saw mill river runs there, see if you get DEP/EPA to divert it for overpass, can you say zero chance ?? |
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| (1338273) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 6 11:07:40 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 01:05:41 2015. People in highly flustered states should not drive. If that problem could be solved, we would be in great shape. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 6 11:14:36 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 10:31:06 2015. You'll see that grade crossing vanish within 3-6 months. Considering that several high profile people were killed & injured and In addition, the Harlem Line runs thru some of the most affluent 'Hoods in the State, the'll find the money to make that crossing do the "Houdini". Not so much to avoid casualties, but damned if my train service is disrupted & I'm late!! |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 6 11:34:57 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 6 07:52:50 2015. Commerce Street could still be accessed from the Parkway via Stevens Ave. to the north, or Lakeview Ave. to the south. Access in between is not all that necessary. If safety at the crossing can't be improved with more modest changes, the overpass should be considered. But would it be thought to be worth the money? |
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| (1338283) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 11:44:38 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 6 11:34:57 2015. If Commerce were a smaller street, I would say not, but as a four lane road, and with such space either end of it there is no reason why not.ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 6 11:56:37 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 11:44:38 2015. It looks like a two-lane road to me. The cheapest solution would be just close off the crossing altogether, and anyone who wants that section of Commerce St. must enter from the south. Maybe eliminate the traffic light and intersection with the Parkway too, and let people who want the section of Commerce St. north of the parkway enter from the north. |
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| (1338286) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 6 12:09:13 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:36:13 2015. Yup. I drove past that spot on the Taconic a few months ago, and noticed that that crossing seemed both unsafe and redundant. The circumstances of what happened need to be looked at. If there is a simple fix (like moving a telephone pole that looks like it just may have briefly blocked the view of the flashing lights) then do it, otherwise close the crossing. |
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| (1338291) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 6 12:18:12 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 6 11:14:36 2015. You'll see that grade crossing vanish within 3-6 months.Can I hold you to this prediction? You seem pretty certain of it. |
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| (1338297) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 6 12:29:49 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 6 11:56:37 2015. It looks like Commerce Street is the only alternate to the Taconic which to me indicates it should not be cut off. Drivers were using it as an alternate because of an accident on the Taconic. What would someone do without any alternates? |
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| (1338298) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 6 12:33:30 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 11:44:38 2015. Commerce St is a 2-lane road with no shoulder. It's part of a local shortcut to avoid major roads while paralleling both the TSP, SBP and MN.as a four lane road, It's easy with Google Maps and Streetview to determine what almost any road looks like anywhere in the world. I recommend its use to any armchair critic. It can save one from looking like a boob from middle America. :=) |
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| (1338301) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 12:36:45 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Feb 6 12:33:30 2015. LION did look at the streetview. Maybe him saw the intersection which looked like four lanes and thought the whole thing was sooth.If it is a two lane, just close the thing. there are other way around there. |
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| (1338321) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by zuckie13 on Fri Feb 6 13:48:11 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 07:36:13 2015. So the lesson to be learned is that if there is ever an accident at a grade crossing, it must be too dangerous so we should close it? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 14:22:26 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by zuckie13 on Fri Feb 6 13:48:11 2015. No, but this one looks especially dangerous, and probably quite unnecessary. |
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| (1338360) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 6 15:25:27 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Feb 6 12:18:12 2015. Sure, I could be wrong. None of the balls in my possession are crystal.However, I base my opinion on precedent as in what happened out in Mineola at the Herricks Rd crossing several years ago in which 6 kids died. That crossing vanished fairly quickly. That area also was high end in terms of income & real estate value. Quite similar to Valhalla. |
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| (1338361) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 15:38:49 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 10:31:06 2015. Do you mean the Bronx River? |
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| (1338367) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Feb 6 15:50:38 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Feb 6 15:25:27 2015. OK. Thanks. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 15:52:57 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 15:38:49 2015. I Think I believe you might be right ;-) |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 16:53:28 2015, in response to LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Feb 5 22:05:46 2015. Why not interlock the traffic light and crossing signal? Put the stop line and red light west of the crossing by the substation with a 'Stop Here on Red' sign west of the crossing.If it really irks the traffic engineers to have wasted space between the crossing and the intersection then there must be some means to determine occupancy in that space and have a secondary red signal west of the crossing stop traffic west of the crossing once two or three cars are stopped east of the crossing. The crossings at Stevens, Lakeview, and Cleveland don't seem to be much safer than Commerce and would probably benefit from the same treatment applied to the Commerce crossing. |
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| (1338384) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 17:58:48 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 16:53:28 2015. The lights are interlocked with the gates.ROAR |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Feb 6 18:09:40 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 16:53:28 2015. A very large number of crossing accidents occur when people do one of two things: go around gates that are down or descending, or advance onto a crossing where the far side is not clear. Without over complicating the scenario, what does the sign "do not stop on the tracks" mean? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 18:33:50 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 17:58:48 2015. It definitely is not, at least not interlocked in the manner I described:View Larger Map There also are no illuminating "no left turn" or "no right turn" signs on the Taconic at the intersection. The only interlocking between the traffic and crossing signals appears to be to trigger a green light for Commerce so as to allow traffic on the crossing to clear before the gates go down. But in this case that may very well have doomed the woman and the train. It's likely she saw the green light to cross the Taconic, moved forward, then stopped when the gate struck her car. So again, rather than engage in this fantasy of grade separating everything, why not just keep traffic stopped west of the crossing? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 6 20:23:45 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 08:57:36 2015. Why this one ? Very simple, because it happened here.Just like LIRR did Herricks Road (GP38 vs. van and a bunch of kids killed 30 years ago), even though LIRR has been foot-dragging and cowering to NIMBY's on the other 3 New Hyde Park and 2 of 3 Mineola crossings for 50 years. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 6 20:26:13 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 16:53:28 2015. People tend to pull up to the intersection nonetheless, not stop at the white line. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by steamdriven on Fri Feb 6 21:14:39 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Feb 6 10:25:14 2015. hmMuch as it's tempting to say "don't stop on the tracks and there's no problem" this layout does set up a trap. The segment of Commerce between tracks and highway is so short that stuff will back up from time to time, especially the occasional long truck. At night in rain/sleet in a long line of slow traffic diverting off the Parkway (which is more likely to happen at night in the such weather), someone will zombie-follow the vehicle in front, past the multiple warning sings, onto the tracks and then stop when traffic ahead backs up. That's fatally stupid, but given enough time someone will do it. Perhaps the crossing can be moved, or if there is an alternative nearby, close it. But first consider how long the crossing has been open, and how many accidents it's had until now. If it has one crash every 50 years, closing only this crossing but not others like it makes no sense. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 6 21:21:28 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by steamdriven on Fri Feb 6 21:14:39 2015. If it has one crash every 50 years, closing only this crossing but not others like it makes no sense.One every 30 years. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 21:53:52 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 18:33:50 2015. any crossing within 75 feet of traffic light has traffic lights tied into crossing circuit, the moment crossing is activated the light turns green to empty the trap zone , the pre-empting circuit has been mandatory since the school bus crash about a decade ago. |
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| (1338446) | |
Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 23:45:39 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 6 21:53:52 2015. Which means the last person at the gate is forced to choose between slipping past the gate and making the light, or stopping and being forced to wait another cycle. If they've seen the traffic light go green they may well advance into the intersection in anticipation of the traffic clearing on the far side, until the gate strikes their vehicle and they stop to investigate what the noise is. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 7 02:02:27 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 6 23:45:39 2015. If they've seen the traffic light go green they may well advance into the intersection in anticipation of the traffic clearing on the far side, until the gate strikes their vehicle and they stop to investigate what the noise is.You can also save time by passing cars on a blind curve on a 2-lane highway. I don't understand how people can do such a thing. :( |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 7 02:39:06 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by pragmatist on Fri Feb 6 18:09:40 2015. A very large number of crossing accidents occur when people do one of two things: go around gates that are down or descending, or advance onto a crossing where the far side is not clear.But at the moment they're receiving contradictory signals at the intersection. The light at the Taconic goes green, then the crossing gates trigger. If a driver reacts to the green light, but doesn't notice the crossing gates flashing and the arms moving then they will likely end up in the intersection with the train on the approach. Moving the traffic signal to the west of the tracks removes the ambiguity. Without over complicating the scenario, what does the sign "do not stop on the tracks" mean? It's clearly as ignored as every other MUTCD sign that isn't a speed limit or stop sign (and even then both those are widely ignored). Drivers at least tend to obey traffic lights for the most part. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Feb 7 08:49:36 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 7 02:39:06 2015. So Mrs. Brody was on Commerece going towards the Taconic? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Feb 7 08:50:54 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 7 02:39:06 2015. Based on the number of red light camera tickets ( I am not weighing in on whether or not they are a fund raiser, safety initiative or both) traffic lights (sadly) are ignored on a pretty regular basis. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 7 08:52:11 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Feb 7 08:49:36 2015. correct |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Feb 7 09:00:38 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 7 08:52:11 2015. Not to be insensitive at a sad moment, but it should be asked.... Could Mrs Brody be liable for causing the death, pain and suffering of the other victims? Her vehicle did not technically strike the other vehicle but she may well be found negligent in her actions. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Feb 7 09:03:03 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Feb 7 09:00:38 2015. she sure could, and if the had survived the would have been charged with involuntary man slaughter, now her estate only has to worry about lawsuits. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 7 09:22:16 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fulton Frank on Sat Feb 7 09:00:38 2015. Yes. As a result of recklessness, possibly criminal in nature, she placed a 4,000 pound object on an active railroad track.She might have succeeded in a defense that she was flustered, even panicked, for whatever reasons related to getting lost, being late, etc. |
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