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| Re: LION on Metro North Collision (1338206) | |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:17:08 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Bill West on Sun Feb 8 04:37:49 2015. I didn't say it was for the exact reason of preventing an SUV from being in the way of an M-7. Neither existed back then. However, the NYC engineers were smart enough to see that such crossings were rather dangerous, and rather problematic for operations, to the point that they grade separated. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:17:20 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:01:51 2015. What? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:18:15 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 8 09:22:38 2015. All of our infrastructure is grossly underfunded, even in NY, where the rail system is bigger and better than anywhere else, but that's another story. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:19:40 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 09:05:22 2015. It's absolutely splitting hairs. The grade crossing eliminations should have been done as part of the project in 1984. Whether the money went through DOT or MN or some other circuitous route with a few more opportunities for corrupt contractors and pols or the mafia to skim off a bit more is an irrelevant detail. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Feb 8 16:20:48 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 8 06:20:00 2015. THE IRS SHOULD HAVE THAT ON MOST OF IT SNAIL MAIL. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:30:30 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:19:40 2015. Now you are bringing in other factors you know nothing of: Corrupt contractors, mafia.If you think the difference between MTA and DOT is trivia, I got a bridge I can sell you. The two agencies aren't even overseen by the same legislative committees. MTA does not get to set DOT's highway agenda. If you think the two agencies should be one in the same, see if you'd like it any better over here in NJ where the NJT Board Chair is DOT Commissioner. The DOT geniuses in the 1990's managed to put a highway grade crossing at the mouth of the Atlantic City rail terminal. So if you think DOT Asphalt heads have safety on their agenda, think again. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:31:29 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:17:08 2015. Not on the electric Putnam Division they didn't. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:42:07 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:17:20 2015. I meant must not have grade-crossing ? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 8 16:44:08 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:17:08 2015. It was not NYC engineers it was the towns, how many times do we have to tell you. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:49:14 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Feb 8 12:03:52 2015. You're making it sound like this giant project. It's not.1. Virginia Road - This one is bridgeable without too much disruption to anything. Might ruin some views from the lot of concrete trucks near the road. Would be a good opportunity to grade separate from the Taconic at the same time. 2. Cleveland Street - This one is really easy. Just close it! There's a bridge 3 blocks away. Grade separating the station and restaurant access from the Taconic would be a much bigger project, but would also grade separate the North Broadway entrance. A big people bridge could be added for pedestrian/bike access to the Valhalla station. 3. Lakeview Ave - This one could just be closed, but it wouldn't fix the grade crossing with the Taconic since there are some businesses stuck in the middle. It might create a couple of really weird driveways, and require some eminent domain/buybacks but you could trench right under both the Harlem and the Taconic, and it's not like a few buildings in that strip are exactly prime real estate anyway. A bridge would be fine too, with a down ramp to the south for this little strip, and a driveway back under to the north. This is probably the hardest crossing on the whole line. The cheap fix would be to just close it and not fix the Taconic. 4. Commerce Street - Bridge over both. Easy. 5. W. Stevens Ave - Find another way through to Bradhust Ave. Doesn't look too hard. Then put some Joizy barriers up and call it a day. This does have another Taconic isolated strip issue for fixing the Taconic, but that looks like a separate project in this case. 6. Roaring Brook Road - Bridge it, grade separate it from the Saw Mill, and make a new set of entrances/exits there. Tons of room to work with. 7. Green Lane - Bridge it over both, new entrances/exits to the Saw Mill, and put it back together with itself. 8. Jay Street - Close it. There's a way around that's only 1.8 miles by car, Make modification to the people bridge at the station so that all people and bikes can go through. 9 Ellen Ave - Close it and re-route the driveways. Add more parking at Southeast to make up for lost parking. That's a grand total of 9 crossings, and 5 bridges. That's not a lot. The biggest problems are the poor design and incomplete grade separation of the Taconic and Saw Mill Parkways even more than of the railroad, and those are probably more expensive to fix than if you just fixed the railroad and didn't fix the parkway, except where it is necessary to do both to do the railroad. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:05:34 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:49:14 2015. Neither are the 5 remaining in New Hyde Park and Mineola, yet they have been nothing but conversation pieces for 50 years, predating Huntington electrification, the NIMBY's don't want the urbanized "south shore look", DOT is doing nothing, and LIRR are whimps.Some of the ones on the Ronkonkoma line are rated as pretty dangerous too. Yet I don't think any get eliminated with the double-tracking and doubling of off-peak service. Powers to be want the KO train yard doubled in size even though it cannot be utilized unless the main line is triple tracked. Their priorities are all phucked up. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:05:57 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:30:30 2015. Jeez, I was making a sarcastic joke about New York area construction. The point is, regardless of who you fund it through and how, it should have been done in 1984, as part of the electrification package. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:05:59 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:31:29 2015. When was that built? Was it third rail as well? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:06:01 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 16:42:07 2015. Well, it's really all electrified lines, so much as is possible. There's a couple in New London, CT that would be completely impossible to remove, but they're 25mph anyway, so they're not horrible. Any line that has a traffic density high enough to warrant electrification also has a traffic density high enough to warrant full grade separation. The Harlem also has the issue of the under-running third rail going over grad crossings, which is unique in the country to that line, although I would argue that the LIRR has a different, but possibly just as big risk, since electrocution and ignition risk is likely higher on the over-running third rail, even though the spearing risk is lower. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:06:03 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Feb 8 16:44:08 2015. They were certainly working with the towns if that's who actually ended up doing the work. The towns certainly didn't just do it on their own. Again, more hair splitting.I know you want to defend the status quo, of "that's the way it's been done for 30 years so that's the way it should always be done and that's the only way it can be done and if it sucks it just sucks and no one should try to fix it because it wasn't fixed 30 years ago so it never will be", but that kind of attitude is so utterly lacking in critical thought, or really any thought at all. Luckily not everyone thinks that way, otherwise we'd still be using horses and wagons to get around and whale oil to light our houses at night, and forget about trains at all! |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:12:08 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:05:59 2015. Yes it was 3rd rail. The trains dumped everyone onto the IRT els.Don't know that much about New York Central history though. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:13:04 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:06:03 2015. You are barking up the wrong tree.Take it up with State DOT and King Andrew. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:14:24 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:05:57 2015. We all know that.Question is how to get DOT to coordinate and or even get a shit. All they really want to do is widen roads. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:14:25 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:05:34 2015. Agreed. Those all need to be eliminated, and the main triple tracked, as well as several sections that are not electrified today should be electrified and grade separated. Unfortunately, thelirrtoday.com is still offline, he had some great maps on there. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:15:26 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:12:08 2015. But it joined with the Hudson line in the Bronx, so wouldn't it have continued into GCT? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:16:33 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:14:25 2015. Actually he is online, but only granting invitations if you e-mail him. he was getting lots of spam too. Something bad happened to him last summer - I don't know what and am afraid to ask. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:16:42 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:13:04 2015. One way or another, the money has to come from Albany or from the feds through Albany, so MN has just as important of a role as DOT to get that money. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:19:09 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:16:33 2015. There's no email publicly listed. Yeah, there's posts on RR.net alluding to that. I really miss reading his blog, it's incredibly interesting, which is especially amazing since I didn't really know or care about the LIRR before reading it. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:19:24 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:06:01 2015. Check out the CTA grade-crossing on several lines surrounding Chicago. Over-sliding and no cover board. The Skokie Swift has taken out a lot of vehicles over time. I won't ride the front of the first car of such trains. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:23:17 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:19:09 2015. Obviously I am not at liberty to make it public.I grew up on the LIRR until 1992, and commuted on the West Hempstead Branch for 13 years. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:24:08 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:19:24 2015. I'm not particularly familiar with the CTA, other than that it exists, but those look like a horrible idea too. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:24:56 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:15:26 2015. No never. They would have had to do a crew change for a Hudson Division crew - $$$$. Don't know if the track arrangement would have permitted it as a straight through operation either. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:25:35 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:16:42 2015. Andrew would rather give money to DOT than MTA. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:27:00 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:23:17 2015. I found the form to request access. Keeping my fingers crossed. I don't understand why he made it private, because he could have just killed the comments section entirely, and left the rest on the public internet. What's even weirder is that there's a twitter account run by "Comitatu Vacante" that links to thelirrtoday.com, and appears to be affiliated with it, but yet the author of thelirrtoday/lirr42 has identified himself as Patrick. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 8 17:28:02 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:19:09 2015. Maybe he's an employee and he got in trouble? |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:30:48 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Feb 8 17:28:02 2015. He is not an LIRR employee.I fear he may have been very sick, but I don't know. That's why I say be gentle. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:33:08 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:24:08 2015. Ravenswood (Brown), Skokie (Yellow), and Douglas Park (Pink) branches.There is little if any horn blowing, and the horn on you old Schwinn is louder. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:36:56 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:24:56 2015. Only a short section, which is mostly redundant to the Hudson, was ever electrified. Wikipedia doesn't have enough info to figure out anything else, although the stub that MN uses today to store equipment does connect directly to the Hudson. There wouldn't have been enough electrified territory to justify running directly to GCT. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:39:10 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:36:56 2015. Union said no. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:41:23 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:30:48 2015. He's a doctor in LIC who commutes from Montauk daily. He's said that in posts on thelirrtoday.com. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 18:44:55 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:18:15 2015. So then, pay more taxes. Infrastructure only comes from the public til. And that is in YOUR pocket.ROAR |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 18:49:36 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 16:19:40 2015. MTA and MNCR had not the authority to mess with public roads. They could not have changed the street infrastructure if they wanted to.For the railroad to eliminate grade crossings, it would have to be elevated, perhaps 14' over the highway at a 1.5% grade, you figure it out, but it would take a lot of construction and real estate to get the job done and a by-pass track would have to have been built to accommodate trains for the years that they were doing this construction. LION watched the construction in Merrick and Belmore, and it took YEARS. MNCR has no treason to do it up there, and no funding for it either. ROAR |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 18:55:36 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 18:49:36 2015. I saw Hicksville, Babylon, Wantagh/Seaford, Amityville/Lindenhurst, Merrick/Bellmore, and Mass. Pk.Quite mess, all of them, which is why the Main Line NIMBY's said "no way". |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 9 07:29:11 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:41:23 2015. Ok thanks. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 9 07:29:39 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 8 17:30:48 2015. Why would being very sick cause him to lock down his blog?????? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 9 07:30:04 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:27:00 2015. Can you email me a link to the form? Thanks. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 9 07:39:50 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Feb 8 17:15:26 2015. It didn't join, it ran parallel to it. |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:44:00 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 9 07:30:04 2015. There's a link in one of lirr42's posts on this page:http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=157119&start=15 |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:54:50 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 18:44:55 2015. Or maybe the government should prioritize spending better. There are lots of areas where fat could be cut, and money spent on infrastructure instead. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:54:52 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Feb 8 18:49:36 2015. They could have forced the grade separations as part of the electrification package in 1984. That would have been the right thing to do.Maybe they should run at restricted speed through all the crossings until the grade separations are done. That would get things done in Albany real quick! |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 9 18:06:11 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:54:52 2015. What I would do is tweak the peak hour Main Line schedules in both directions so that the gates in New Hyde Park or Mineola are down for a solid hour.That will get attention. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 9 18:09:30 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:54:50 2015. Gotta have the Keytsone Pipeline you know (sarcasm) |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Feb 9 18:32:47 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Feb 9 17:54:50 2015. Sure, Sure, Sure... EAsy to say, but doing things the right way does not buy many votes.ROAR |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Feb 10 21:44:18 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Feb 9 18:32:47 2015. Unfortunately, quite true. |
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Re: LION on Metro North Collision |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Feb 10 21:44:27 2015, in response to Re: LION on Metro North Collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 9 18:06:11 2015. Pretty sure that's illegal! I was thinking of making the people on the train suffer... lots of high income, suburban, influential folks riding those trains. |
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