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| (1304635) | |
Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jul 29 07:47:50 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 18:17:10 2014. A few of the road crossings along the Rockaway row look 3 tracked.I walked the ROW from Whitepot to Atlantic Ave in 1992. IIRC, the Park Lane trestle is triple tracked because of a freight siding. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jul 29 13:05:08 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Jul 29 07:47:50 2014. Ah ok, A few looked to be triple tracked. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jul 29 13:07:26 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 29 01:30:25 2014. Hmmm, what if they only reactivated existing stations? |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 29 13:47:58 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 03:00:17 2014. I'd need to do or see more actual research on that issue, but I tend to agree with your point on that. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 29 13:48:16 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Tue Jul 29 03:04:13 2014. Me too. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 29 13:51:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Jul 28 21:36:16 2014. Most likely not. But this is a discussion board. Most of uis are railfans, so we're just talking.And if the "powers that be" had any real vision, the line wouldn't have been abandoned, or if it was, would've been brought back to life years ago. |
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| (1304732) | |
Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 29 16:42:01 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jul 29 13:07:26 2014. I think there's exactly 1 left. :-S |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jul 30 22:29:51 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Michael549 on Mon Jul 28 12:31:45 2014. Well, sort of. What you're missing is that the Rockaway trains would be the express trains! The ONLY switches connected to the express tracks would be those south of Woodhaven Boulevard station.The reality is that the Rockaways are so far out there, to have it served by a local would be ludicrous. A lot of people on the Railway side of the Rockaway Beach Line debate appear to be clamoring for some kind of express train. It would be an insult to give them a local. Of course, there's an alternative to the 5-track Woodhaven design I propose. That would be to not modify Woodhaven and shift Rockaway-bound trains from express to local at either Roosevelt Avenue (which would do more harm than good) or at Queens Plaza/36th Street (which eliminates the express completely, not to mention disappoint countless Rockaway line riders, since in order to get that promised express service, there'd be an additional train to ride, and a transfer at the already busy Roosevelt Avenue station). The 5-track Woodhaven design allows for several things. 1. It allows Rockaway line trains to run express between Woodhaven Boulevard and Manhattan. 2. It allows Queens line express trains traveling to and from Jamaica to continue to run express through the station (i.e. no additional stop at Woodhaven). 3. It allows northbound express trains to access the station without having to wait for a northbound local to clear it. The reason for not making the existing southbound platform at Woodhaven an island is also interesting. Given that the Rockaway line trains would run express starting at Woodhaven Boulevard, 63rd Drive and Woodhaven Boulevard become express stations. Anyone at 67th Avenue needing express service would simply take a train one stop to 63rd Drive, then take a train coming from Rockaway. It's a situation similar to the A and C between Chambers and Hoyt-Schermerhorn. Local and express trains share the same track. People needing a particular service can wait for it. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 30 22:53:36 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Jul 30 22:29:51 2014. What about the issue that the express tracks on QB are maxed out? |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 31 00:24:21 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jul 30 22:53:36 2014. Until super express tracks are built, the only solution would be schedule tweaks. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Ray Jules on Thu Jul 31 00:32:19 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 31 00:24:21 2014. And CBTC |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Jul 31 09:54:26 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 29 16:42:01 2014. Haha |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 10:37:36 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jul 29 13:07:26 2014. The "existing stations" would need to be compltely rebuilt. The only existing ones are Parkside (Metropolitan Ave), and Ozone Park, but both are in complete shambles, not to mention never upgraded for modern transportation. They would also have to be ADA compliant....60 years is way to long to be considered "grandfathered in", lol.The other stations were Brooklyn Manor (Jamaica Ave), but made of wood, and totally removed decades ago, and Rego Park on the mainline, also made of wood and removed. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 31 11:53:35 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 10:37:36 2014. there is no parkside station,just woodhaven[atlantic ave.]and ozone park. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 11:59:22 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 31 11:53:35 2014. Crap, yes, I meant Woodhaven Blvd at Atlantic Ave (mental block). Parkside was also wood, correct. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 31 12:27:19 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 11:59:22 2014. yup,played on it as a kid. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 12:30:19 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 31 12:27:19 2014. Yes, I also visited it back in the 90's. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by rockparklocal on Thu Jul 31 13:13:25 2014, in response to In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014. The Brooklyn to Jamaica part of the LIRR should be made part of the subway. Make it the P train and open the closed underground station on Atlantic Ave in Woodhaven. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Thu Jul 31 13:30:06 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Jul 31 12:27:19 2014. When you were the tunnelmouse? |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jul 31 14:10:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by rockparklocal on Thu Jul 31 13:13:25 2014. Actually have the subway, M? run down the line stopping at a stations made along the line and after Ozone Park...running down the center of the ROW to terminate at Howard Beach. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jul 31 17:15:18 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by rockparklocal on Thu Jul 31 13:13:25 2014. Nope. FBA is needed for west end capacity if LIRR expansion plans go through (2nd track to KO, etc) |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jul 31 18:41:37 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 28 12:41:30 2014. But under woodhaven blvd you have the same problems as tunneling under a street - people complain about disruption to local businesses, loss of parking, loss of road throughput during construction... which leads to deep bore. All that is sidestepped when digging under empty land, and cut and cover can be employed. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Jul 31 18:43:09 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:19:47 2014. Yup... run the trains behind the wall, fill in the current local track with platform, and you now have an express stop. |
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| (1305210) | |
Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Jul 31 18:47:48 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jul 31 14:10:25 2014. BOTH. Free transfer at Woodhaven.As long as it's been closed (38 years), Woodhaven station looks structurally sound. The entrances would need re-doing (I think there is a sealed entrance around 102 Street) and a good scrub and new lights would be needed. The upper level, while still largely intact, would need more work than the lower. wayne |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jul 31 19:51:08 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jul 31 17:15:18 2014. With the way they've been treating the Atlantic Branch, including their plans to turn it into a shuttle between Jamaica and Flatbush Ave, LIRR really doesn't seem to want it anymore, much less need it. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 31 20:29:08 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 28 11:53:14 2014. not a rumor just look in the tunnel there ARE PROVISIONS! |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Thu Jul 31 21:42:31 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 03:00:17 2014. Sure, that's a great idea! Maybe we should send the (G) to The Bronx to improve Concourse service as well? |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jul 31 21:58:58 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 31 11:59:22 2014. I was up there at Woodhaven Blvd & Atlantic Ave back in the early 80's when I still lived in Woodhaven & the sight was amazing to me. The railroad just seemed to walk away from the branch. Nothing ripped up, everything in place. Running rail, 3d rail, wooden 3d rail covers, signal posts.etc. Its like one day the trains were running & the next day they weren't. You would think as strapped as the LIRR was in those days for funds that they'd at least rip up the iron & get some $$$ for scrap.Very surreal seeing an intact roadbed, signals, 3d rail with protective wooden boards intact...with huge trees growing between the crossties, at least the way it was in 1982. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jul 31 22:54:01 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Jul 31 19:51:08 2014. Short sightedness of the current heads at the LIRR doesn't mean it won't be necessary in the future. If LIRR gets that extra track on the main and electrifies further, they'll eventually need more than just NYP and GCT. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 31 23:47:16 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:26:10 2014. Iawtp. Queens blvd can't fit all those trains on two tracks per direction forever. But if they don't want to build the queens super express, how about extend the G to the rockaways? Isn't a reason the G is kept off qbl due to 71st not being able to turn back 3 trains? Maybe they could run the G and then have it split off at woodhaven and go down to rockaway park and replace the shuttle?The other alternative could be to just have this new rockaway line terminate at woodhaven (knock down the walls and have the train use separate tracks, ie : woodhaven blvd would look like dekalb with 6 tracks) and offer an across the platform transfer to the M/R and return back, basically an eastern queens version of the G crosstown line and call it the H. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 1 07:04:59 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 31 23:47:16 2014. What about running it to NYP as a branch of the LIRR? |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 1 07:06:12 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 1 07:04:59 2014. It could connect to the Main Line some where near Rego Park..And if East Side Access is ever finished, it'd be able to NYP or GCT. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 1 07:08:34 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jul 31 22:54:01 2014. I don't doubt that. Which is why severing most connections to the FBA line is such a dumb-assed idea. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Aug 1 11:14:45 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Tue Jul 29 13:05:08 2014. Both correct.At one time there was a single track that followed the western most side of the ROW to join with the Montauk branch. Now I believe there is a little league ball field in that area. That parking lot serving the sky scraper apartment building was or is three tracks wide. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Aug 1 11:31:22 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jul 31 20:29:08 2014. NO, no, no, no.Remove the walls on the current local platforms. Install track ways for new local row. shift local to new track way. shift express track to current local track way. Ramp down, or up the current express tracks heading compass EAST, then turning south and heading to White Pot area to join with Rockaway branch. Now you have an express for the rockaway Branch. Connect the current local cutouts for local service to the Rockaway Branch and off peak service. Twice as costly and twice the service |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Fri Aug 1 11:38:04 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:58:59 2014. Do not refer the land grab as "Their Property". |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by grand concourse on Fri Aug 1 11:42:18 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 1 07:04:59 2014. As others said, it'd mean higher fares and decrease in service. Ideally, making it a subway line would be the best way to keep fares low and give people a better option over a bus ride. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 2 02:05:52 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Avid Reader on Fri Aug 1 11:38:04 2014. I think you know how I meant it (as in those who have property that apparently is illegally encroaching the line). |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 2 02:11:11 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:58:59 2014. You can't lose something that isn't yours. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Aug 2 02:35:06 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 2 02:11:11 2014. True, and they likely know it really isn't theirs. |
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Re: Rockaway Beach Line |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:28:46 2014, in response to Re: Rockaway Beach Line, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:48:43 2014. The D and R both run local on 4th Avenue with only the N express?And the W would run local on Queens Boulevard before diverting to the Rockaways? What stops at 63rd Drive and 67th Avenue? Does the M run its full length 24/7? |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:28:54 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:26:10 2014. Hey, at least the Rockaway line physically exists. I doubt the SAS will ever be more than a stubway. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:29:04 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by steamdriven on Mon Jul 28 12:25:01 2014. As for the FRA, there may be ways to work around that. Once built I doubt they would shut down an operating NYC transit service over a technicality.If LIRR service to Chambers Street was nixed a century ago, there's no way it'd be allowed today when the car weight difference is higher and people are more concerned about safety. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:36:49 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:15:28 2014. One option would be to shift the A tracks over to one side through Howard Beach and run LIRR trains between Howard Beach and Penn Station. In theory, the LIRR service could be operated on subway-style fares— the Howard Beach LIRR station is inside subway fare control, intermediate stations like Ozone Park have turnstiles, and machines in all stations on the Rockaway line (subway, LIRR, and both) will have machines that exchange metrocard swipes for LIRR tickets for the return trip. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:40:17 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 31 23:47:16 2014. The G? No. There's no sense in rebuilding the old line just to serve the Rockaways with a train that doesn't actually go to Manhattan. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Aug 3 16:18:04 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:36:49 2014. That would go hand in hand with what I want LIRR to do for eastern Queens service, but I just don't think LIRR is the right fit for the Rockaway branch, even if it is only to Howard Beach. The line ought to go to Rockaway |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Aug 3 20:50:03 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 3 14:29:04 2014. lirr service to chambers st.was stopped because of economics,as was brt service to rockaway park. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 4 07:39:28 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by grand concourse on Fri Aug 1 11:42:18 2014. Yes, I suppose that's why the ROW was legally preserved in the first place. But we see how that worked out....I'm no expert, but from what I can observe, the Queens Blvd. line really can't handle another service. In today's day and age, I think it would do OK as an LIRR service, especially if it paralleled the A to Howard Beach, then cut over to JFK. Here's the result of that: 1) Rockaway, Howard Beach, Ozone Park and Woodhaven get another way to reach Manhattan. 2) Silly Airtrain is eliminated. |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 4 12:41:11 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 4 07:39:28 2014. Exactly what numbers of ridership is being talked about with these proposals.Somehow (I could be wrong) I doubt that Rockaway, Howard Beach, Ozone Park and Woodhaven - are brimming with huge fantastic ridership numbers. It is not like the A-trains to those areas are so packed with riders that no one else can board the trains further down the line in Brooklyn. I understand the idea in this case of making it easier to travel about the various parts of Queens. Still what are the ridership numbers that folks promoting these ideas are expecting. Mike |
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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 4 14:27:36 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 4 12:41:11 2014. Sometimes, it's a case of "build it and they will come". Certainly, this would make it easier to travel between JFK and Midtown- both NYP and eventually, GCT.Remember- there's a lot more air traffic than there was in 1962. |
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