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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:31:13 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 16:46:23 2014. I know more than most people.That's unlikely, since you can't even manage the reading comprehension to figure out what I believe. How many Palestinians and Israelis have you ever met in your life? Quite a few, but that's not particularly relevant— personal familiarity with individuals of a particular nationality is hardly the best gauge of knowledge of international issues. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:41:11 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:06:00 2014. I'm not aware of humanists being persecuted the way that Jews have been over the centuries...Seriously? Go to any country on the planet at any point in history prior to, say, 1940, and declare that God (or local equivalent) does not exist. (Or for "cult of personality" countries where the local equivalent is a real person, then deny that he's supernatural or otherwise exceptional.) |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 19:51:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 13:59:57 2014. Only if you're advocating for the "Arab people are inherently incapable of democracy" position.No, I'm advocating for Israel not incorporating a population sworn to its destruction. No, that's an apple. I asked for an orange. You need your eyes checked, because what you have is another apple. At the time, it sucked to be anybody but a rich straight male WASP. It is no longer the 1940s. Neither the Holocaust nor the circumstances under which Israel was founded give them justification for turning away a refugee who shows up in Tel Aviv simply for being Romani/North Korean/Muslim Chinese/whatever today. They made it explicitly clear from the very beginning that it was a Jewish state and it would accept any Jew. Why should they then be obligated to take in any refugee that bangs on their door? BTW, it turns out they do have a naturalization policy, but no refugee policy. Here in 2014, I trust Germany a lot more than either America or Israel. Good for you. I'd rather make sure there's a place that won't close its doors to any demographic that's fleeing oppression. Once that's done, I'd work on creating another such place. Go for it. After decades of countries closing their doors to you, your immediate response is "I want a country of my own so I can close my doors to everyone else?" Their immediate response was to create a place for their people. If they had the size and resources of the US, or Canada, or Russia, maybe they could've created a country for all refugees. But they don't, so they won't. Don't pretend you don't understand how language works. Maybe you ought to lay off the deliberate exaggerations in the straight statements of your main point. Right of return— no goyim need apply. See above about size and resources, and that they never claimed to be anything other than a Jewish state. That and the need for a "two state solution" to enforce a Jewish majority, Back to the apple. which will doubtless become a "three state solution" if Christianity starts offering a 20% bonus on all good deeds or whatever convinces people to change religions. Generating your own line of shreddable straw men? And they've opened their doors to a worldwide population defined by their choice in food, holidays, and mandatory days off? You've missed the point. They've opened the doors to those of their religion, yes. Just like others have opened the doors to their demographics. A country is a geographical area contained within specific borders. OK, fine. Israel is a geographical area set aside for an entire demographic's worldwide population— a house party to which all of Demographic A is invited, not merely a line down the middle of the house to prevent disputes between its two residents. Because the lines were drawn when Israel was created. Much like the lines were drawn for the Czech Republic at its creation, leaving a majority of Czechs in it (See? Israel isn't the only one.). No, but the fact that racism, sexism, homophobia, and bigotry of all sorts is at an all-time low in spite of their best efforts is. In the US, yes. In Europe and other Westernized countries, probably. In the whole world? NOT SO MUCH. That's a problem everybody in every country should be trying to change. I've had a fairly extended "debate" over this with Chris and I think Spider Pig— the idea of exclusive birthright citizenships (you may not leave the country you were born in without special dispensation) is absurd and obsolete. Good luck changing the human race. No, Israel turns away every oppressed demographic save one. How many Chinese Muslims or Saudi Christians or Afghan atheists or North Koreans of any religious persuasion manage to find safety in Israel? How many of those people have tried to go to Israel? I don't know when you are, but for me it's 2014. Israel exists, South Africa is an independent country, most countries are generally OK with Jews, and Germany bans pro-Nazi advocacy. My demographic? Which one? How many of them are you even aware of? Since you seem to be the one having problems with language now, let me be more explicit: if you were a Jew, and you just lost members of your family and people you know to the Holocaust because they weren't allowed to emigrate, you'd still trust those nations to take you and everybody like you in if you became refugees again numbering in the hundreds of thousands? And since this is a hypothetical situation where you don't like Israel's Law of Return policy, we'll leave that out and you'll have to go through the hoops just like everyone else. There are plenty of countries to flee to if it came to that. That's good - for YOU. What happens if you're going to be in a group like you that numbers in the 6 digits? How many of those countries you mentioned have a record of taking in that many refugees in a short span of time? And BTW, those countries have proved that they WON'T follow through on their refugee policies at least once, when it comes to your group. After all, if Israel is set up as the Jewish State™ and all other countries turn away Jews, then where do the Reform Jews go if Israel decided it's now Orthodox-only? What happens if Israel becomes a dictatorship for reasons completely unrelated to religion, or decides to discriminate based on criteria other than religion? While were going with worst-case hypothetical scenarios which have no bearing on the present, what happens if an asteroid the size of Mt. Hebron were to slam into Israel and wipe it off the face of the planet? No. If they've got enough power, money, and connections to create a country, they should create a country that will accept anyone fleeing from genocide. See above about size and resources. Your view is like from someone who has never known what it's like to have the world turn their back on you. No, I think you have that overly trusting view pretty much cornered. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 20:02:34 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu May 8 17:50:23 2014. That is a very good question. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 20:03:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:14:02 2014. My bad, then. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:05:21 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:13:32 2014. How about Jewish in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s? Care to try that one?Nazi Germany? Jewish/black is kind of a tossup. Overall, I'd probably rather be Jewish since that's (a) easier to hide and (b) easier to change if need be. Right, and this is why I had to provide all sorts of information to any Jewish community I wished to visit while traveling... Seriously? Where, exactly, were you traveling? ...and then be subject to passport inspections, body inspections, and questioning once I arrived at the synagogue in Italy (the main Rome synagogue was the target of a terror attack in the 1980s), France, Germany, Portugal, and Brazil, all in the past few years. I've been to a few of those places and somehow managed not to notice all of those things. 3-9 did this very well already. Where? You, 3-9, and Gamera are all rather prolific (if not necessarily coherent) and there's only one of me bothering to have this "debate" so it takes me awhile to catch up even before the disadvantage I face from having to take time to actually think about what I write. I'm not condoning any of those things, but do you not see how your ideas just put the Jews back into the same category with all these other people? Yes. All those other people who aren't facing those things with anywhere near the same severity today and certainly don't have purpose-built countries just for them. You're naive. Listen to what Abu Mazen says when he speaks in Arabic. Or Hamas. Or the mullahs in Iran. Yeah, I can see Iran and Palestine not accepting Jewish refugees. What about the US? Canada? France? Switzerland? Israel? Germany? Norway? Sweden? Finland? Why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel about Israel and the Jews? OK, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is not fucked up beyond all hope of repair, but it's a bit hypocritical of them to declare they exist for the purpose of accepting Jews who will be turned away elsewhere and then turn away every other oppressed group in exactly the same fashion, and the crap they're pulling in Palestine (though not as bad as the crap America is pulling in Pakistan) seriously needs to end. "The Jews" are too large and diverse a group to say much of anything about, but Judaism is the religion that codified the monotheism trope (although some of its stories have polytheistic leanings) and, although no more than a cult classic itself, spawned two incredibly popular fan sequels. It's about as stupid and bullshit as every other religion, but deserves some credit for being much less virulent than, say, Christianity or Islam, and for having at least some self-awareness as to the fact that its laws were made up by dudes rather than handed down by gods. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:06:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu May 8 17:44:44 2014. Thanks for helping my argument, Mr. Jewish Supremacist. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 20:09:51 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:06:33 2014. Thank you. It takes quite a bit of effort. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:22:21 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:19:01 2014. I guess this wouldn't interest you since it occurred prior to 1967, which seems to be your marker for history, but in 1947, the UN did just what you describe in the British Mandate area of Palestine. The Jews accepted the proposal. The Arabs did not and went to war, they wanted the whole region for themselves. I wrote what happened next somewhere else in this thread. How come that isn't of interest to you?You ripped up several straw men but completely missed the point. The point is this: Israel declares itself open to every member of a vast diaspora and only members of that diaspora. Neither the Czech Republic nor Slovakia is willing to admit anybody on the planet who is willing to deny the tastiness of cheeseburgers and mutilate their kids' genitals. We're back to drama and exaggeration now? Please don't pretend you can't understand figurative language. Remember the Passover thread, that didn't go well. I think it went swimmingly. I made a joke, a bunch of fools threw massive tantrums, and then I mocked them for it and much fun was had by all (except the fools). The rights of Muslims and Christians to worship and live as they please is not curtailed in any way within Israel's borders. Once again, you use a qualified statement and hope I won't notice. OK, try this: Chris Cohen was born in Canada and has never been to Israel. However, at some point, he thinks he'd be able to find a better job in Tel Aviv. Will he be able to move to Israel? What factors might potentially prevent him from doing so? They do not have the right to murder innocent Israelis in the name of terrorism however. "In the name of terrorism?" Well my days of not taking you seriously are definitely coming to a middle. This oppression isn't supposed, it was quite real and Israel was created as a result. The need isn't gone now that Israel exists, either. The need is substantially less than that of people who face oppression but aren't rich or powerful or connected enough to build their own countries to escape it. Accepting them would be the decent thing to do. Israel is meant to be a state for Jews to flee to when they face persecution, it can't possibly hold the doors open for everyone and anyone who needs to flee something, at least not to settle permanently. An unfortunate reality but one that is necessary in today's world. How many Jews fled to how many countries in the 1930s and 40s only to be turned away because those countries couldn't possibly hold the doors open for everyone and anyone who needs to flee something, at least not to settle permanently? |
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Re: “Palestinian” university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:23:11 2014, in response to Re: “Palestinian” university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 8 17:56:51 2014. So then we're all winners. Yay! *confetti* |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:24:46 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:21:13 2014. See there you go again.The Jews have a right to return, but the Palestinians don't because that would disrupt the Jewish majority that must be enforced. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:25:20 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:22:40 2014. I do.Do you? |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:27:45 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 20:02:34 2014. That's actually a very good question. If all ~56 million Jews decided to move there, they'd probably have to annex a chunk of Saudi Arabia. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:28:20 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 8 18:02:23 2014. I wouldn't trust Terrapin Station to referee a game of solitaire. |
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Posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:32:57 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:05:21 2014. Nazi Germany? Jewish/black is kind of a tossup. Overall, I'd probably rather be Jewish since that's (a) easier to hide and (b) easier to change if need be.Why don't you read history - converting to another religion in Nazi Germany did not help. Having a Jewish parent or grandparent is all that mattered. I guess being "easier to hide" didn't help the six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:36:23 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 15:32:03 2014. So - name one Arab democracy then... We're waiting....So just to make it perfectly clear, you believe that Arabs, as a race, are fundamentally incapable of supporting democracy? |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:37:22 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 8 15:55:19 2014. And yet, you do. Quite incoherently, I may add. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 8 20:39:27 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:28:20 2014. 
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:44:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:22:21 2014. How many Jews fled to how many countries in the 1930s and 40s only to be turned away because those countries couldn't possibly hold the doors open for everyone and anyone who needs to flee something, at least not to settle permanently?Even the US turned Jewish refugees away in 1939 What about the Jews who fled to and were accepted by neighboring countries? It didn't matter because the Nazis conquered most of Europe and rounded up many of those who had fled to formerly independent countries. Remember the Passover thread, that didn't go well. I think it went swimmingly. I made a joke, a bunch of fools threw massive tantrums, and then I mocked them for it and much fun was had by all (except the fools). Thank you for exposing the antisemites including yourself. |
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Posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:49:27 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:36:23 2014. Seems you like to assassinate straw men too |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:15:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 19:51:36 2014. No, I'm advocating for Israel not incorporating a population sworn to its destruction.Which you believe includes all/most Arabs. You need your eyes checked, because what you have is another apple. So you can't tell the difference between two warring populations dividing their homeland and one country declaring itself a homeland available to anyone on the planet who meets specific arbitrary criteria? They made it explicitly clear from the very beginning that it was a Jewish state and it would accept any Jew. Why should they then be obligated to take in any refugee that bangs on their door? Once again, my point sailed right over your head. OK, suppose you're one of the Jews fleeing from the Nazis. You go to country after country looking for somewhere safe only to be turned away. Your reaction to that appears to be "that's perfectly right and perfectly justified except that they did it to me." Their immediate response was to create a place for their people. As I said. While perfectly expected as an immediate response, it only perpetuates the same problem. See above about size and resources, and that they never claimed to be anything other than a Jewish state. If size and resources are a problem, then a gay Ugandan who will be killed in his home country should take precedence over a Jewish Canadian who thinks he'd get a more prestigious job in Israel. And announcing that you have a double standard is not the same thing as justifying it. Generating your own line of shreddable straw men? How so? If Christians became a majority in Israel, wouldn't the same arguments apply as they do to Muslims? They've opened the doors to those of their religion, yes. Just like others have opened the doors to their demographics. The point is that a population that has suffered a long and painful history of being excluded and turned away should know better than to exclude and turn away. Because the lines were drawn when Israel was created. Much like the lines were drawn for the Czech Republic at its creation, leaving a majority of Czechs in it (See? Israel isn't the only one.). Yes, and how many people who have distant Czech ancestry or identify as Czech are granted "right of return" to the Czech Republic in spite of never having been there? In the US, yes. In Europe and other Westernized countries, probably. In the whole world? NOT SO MUCH. In the whole world, quite a lot. Last I checked, the world includes Western countries, so unless you're claiming the rest of the world has somehow gotten even worse it's a net gain. Moreover, you held up the Republicans as an example that historical progress is being reversed, so you should really be concerned with bigotry in the US— they can't roll back the tide of history even in the country they control. Good luck changing the human race. Thank you. You know you can try doing that too, right? I don't think the Nazis were defeated by people who dismissed them as unchangeable human nature. In fact, the Holocaust would never have happened if a lot more people were a lot less inclined to see bad things as fixed aspects of the human race. How many of those people have tried to go to Israel? If your policy is clear, you can't blame people for accepting it. Point is, would Israel accept them or not? If you were a Jew, and you just lost members of your family and people you know to the Holocaust because they weren't allowed to emigrate, you'd still trust those nations to take you and everybody like you in if you became refugees again numbering in the hundreds of thousands? And Israel can accept that many refugees in such a short time span? Of course, it's moot— I can't have just lost anyone I know in the Holocaust because the Holocaust didn't happen within my lifetime or even that of my parents. If you are proposing that I were in the 1940s, then the entire endeavour becomes moot. That's good - for YOU. What happens if you're going to be in a group like you that numbers in the 6 digits? How many of those countries you mentioned have a record of taking in that many refugees in a short span of time? So Israel can take in hundreds of thousands of refugees in a short time span, but only if they're Jewish? What, does Judaism give you lower per-turn upkeep? Make you tastier to the Foundation? While were going with worst-case hypothetical scenarios which have no bearing on the present, what happens if... ...antisemitism flares up again and produces another genocide campaign? No, I think you have that overly trusting view pretty much cornered. Figures. I'm a fan of a good ironic echo, but you missed the point entirely and let it go to waste. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu May 8 21:27:23 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 8 15:55:19 2014. Good post. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:28:53 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:32:57 2014. Why don't you read history - converting to another religion in Nazi Germany did not help. Having a Jewish parent or grandparent is all that mattered.And having one black ancestor at any point made you black in the eyes of the antebellum South. I guess being "easier to hide" didn't help the six million Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust "Easier to hide" is not the same thing as "undetectable shapeshifting ghost." If Germany had a comparably sized black population, there would have likely been more than six million killed. Also, "easier to hide" is based on the fact that, while pigmentation is literally all over your face, a claim that you are Jewish can be countered by eating a pork chop. However, knowing how people are with regard to religion, I can only assume that some wouldn't go that far. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:35:28 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:44:01 2014. Even the US turned Jewish refugees away in 1939Sigh. Yet another ironic echo wasted on someone who completely missed the point. Thank you for exposing the antisemites including yourself. Sigh. Yet another unsubstantiated accusation of antisemitism. Although it's highly ironic that you'd call me "antisemitic" given your comments about Arabs— last time I checked, Arabs are a Semitic people, while Judaism, being a religion that anybody can join, has no specific ethnic character. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:36:48 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 8 20:39:27 2014. You start by putting the 8 of clubs on the 9 of diamonds, obviously. :) |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 8 21:38:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:36:48 2014. You're beginning to comprehend how the turtle functions now. :) |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:38:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Gamera on Thu May 8 20:49:27 2014. You implied a statement so I asked you to clarify whether or not you believed it.Asking what the other person believes is how you avoid needlessly harming our straw friends. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 9 01:58:13 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:15:36 2014. Which you believe includes all/most Arabs.Israeli Arabs seem to live relatively peacefully in Israel. If all the other Arabs want to wipe out Israel, that's their fault. So you can't tell the difference between two warring populations dividing their homeland and one country declaring itself a homeland available to anyone on the planet who meets specific arbitrary criteria? No you're trying to MAKE a difference between two warring populations dividing their homeland and ... two warring populations dividing their homeland. Only in ONE of the cases you think it's wrong. And Israel can accept that many refugees in such a short time span? It would be a strain, but they would certainly try. Of course, it's moot— I can't have just lost anyone I know in the Holocaust because the Holocaust didn't happen within my lifetime or even that of my parents. If you are proposing that I were in the 1940s, then the entire endeavour becomes moot. So it didn't happen to you, therefore you have no idea what it's like, and it doesn't matter. Got it. ...antisemitism flares up again and produces another genocide campaign? Considering how anti-Semitism is still present around the world and even in the US to a degree, you've finally found a plausible scenario. Figures. I'm a fan of a good ironic echo, but you missed the point entirely and let it go to waste. I figured you just didn't have an answer as to how Israel, with its relatively limited resources, should suddenly pretend it has the size and resources of the United States. |
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 9 02:44:38 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 21:15:36 2014. Oops missed a bunch.OK, suppose you're one of the Jews fleeing from the Nazis. You go to country after country looking for somewhere safe only to be turned away. Your reaction to that appears to be "that's perfectly right and perfectly justified except that they did it to me." Yeah, countries that said they were willing to take immigrants...except when it came to all those Jews. Turn them back. As I said. While perfectly expected as an immediate response, it only perpetuates the same problem. They have enough resources to solve one problem, that others failed to address. Try to solve all of them, they'll end up solving none. It's called overreaching. If size and resources are a problem, then a gay Ugandan who will be killed in his home country should take precedence over a Jewish Canadian who thinks he'd get a more prestigious job in Israel. And how does that hypothetical problem fit with the goal that Israel set for itself? And announcing that you have a double standard is not the same thing as justifying it. Still better than hypocrisy. How so? If Christians became a majority in Israel, wouldn't the same arguments apply as they do to Muslims? No, you put out a situation where the Israeli Christians started acting like comical fundies. Little different there, unless you're implying that Christians are naturally fundies? The point is that a population that has suffered a long and painful history of being excluded and turned away should know better than to exclude and turn away. See above about trying to solve all the world's problems. Yes, and how many people who have distant Czech ancestry or identify as Czech are granted "right of return" to the Czech Republic in spite of never having been there? If they have a relative in CR, they can return. Has there been a chronic problem with anti-Czech sentiments? In the whole world, quite a lot. Last I checked, the world includes Western countries, so unless you're claiming the rest of the world has somehow gotten even worse it's a net gain. Actually in some ways it has. Ever heard of something called Sharia law? Wasn't so popular before, seems to be more popular now. There's been some fun curb stomping in Asia too. Western countries don't occupy as much of the world you think it does. Moreover, you held up the Republicans as an example that historical progress is being reversed, so you should really be concerned with bigotry in the US— they can't roll back the tide of history even in the country they control. Who ever said I'm not? You know you can try doing that too, right? I don't think the Nazis were defeated by people who dismissed them as unchangeable human nature. In fact, the Holocaust would never have happened if a lot more people were a lot less inclined to see bad things as fixed aspects of the human race. Yeah, the Nazis were defeated with military power. We didn't so much change their nature as smashed and hunted them down. You mean we should do that to change human nature? If your policy is clear, you can't blame people for accepting it. Point is, would Israel accept them or not? Since they apparently have a naturalization process, it would depend on how many people would make it through. How many of these people you mentioned were turned down? So Israel can take in hundreds of thousands of refugees in a short time span, but only if they're Jewish? What, does Judaism give you lower per-turn upkeep? Make you tastier to the Foundation? Maybe the brains to make sure they have an achievable goal? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 08:43:19 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by LuchAAA on Thu May 8 18:02:23 2014. Referee??? I'm a f*cking moderator. At one time I even owned the site. |
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Re: “Palestinian” university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 08:44:26 2014, in response to Re: “Palestinian” university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:23:11 2014. What about the PLO and Hamas and many residents of Gaza? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 08:51:17 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 13:59:57 2014. You seem to fail to understand that the country was divided up already. The Jews were given a portion and they created Israel. The Arabs were given the other portion and instead of creating a country, the surrounding Arab nations immediately started a war with the new Jewish country. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:04:27 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 18:22:08 2014. Insane. But I guess not unexpected. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:08:46 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 8 15:55:19 2014. Correct. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:10:49 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 16:30:12 2014. Exactly. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri May 9 09:19:21 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 18:22:08 2014. 1. I agree. But unless everyone subscribes to it, it won't happen.2. I agree that separation of church and state is a good idea, but forbidding religion itself is not. 3. Also true, but when part of the population is irrevocably committed to toppling the state, this is what will occur. 4. If you can figure out a way to do this that everyone can agree with, you will win a Nobel Prize. 5. How do you think the United States grew in the 1800's? By killing numerous Indians and putting the rest of them on reservations. 6. There has not been a real declared war since World War II. Every conflict since then, despite being called "wars" by historians and the media, were police actions, many with UN participation. 6a. What happens if the entity attacking your country does not have its own state, but are in fact an organized guerilla group? People die just the same from their bombs as from a formal nation's bombs. You are an idealist. Humanity is not ready for most of the ideas you espouse. Check back in 200 years or so. Maybe then. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:21:47 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:18:32 2014. 1. You're an ass.2. He's not saying what Israel is doing is ok because other countries do it. He saying if you're goofing to criticize Israel for doing it then criticize all other nations that do it. 3. Yes, post the list of all the terroristic things Israel has done like blowing up buses full of civilians. 4. Yes, a terror state. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:22:04 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 8 18:27:54 2014. Yep. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:24:36 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:22:30 2014. Huh? By that reasoning, since many of these Arabs fled Israel during the war for independence even though they didn't need to (for spite or whatever), then the fact that they are without infrastructure is their own problem. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:25:17 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:25:01 2014. That's the whole point. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:27:12 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 16:59:37 2014. +4 |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:28:28 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:41:11 2014. So you agree that he is correct on all the other points you ignored? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:29:01 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 8 20:09:51 2014. I don't think you should bother. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:33:06 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:05:21 2014. "but it's a bit hypocritical of them to declare they exist for the purpose of accepting Jews who will be turned away elsewhere and then turn away every other oppressed group in exactly the same fashion"No it's not. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:35:45 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by chicagomotorman on Thu May 8 17:50:23 2014. I think a way would be found to make it work. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:38:07 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu May 8 17:19:01 2014. Good post sir. |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:39:45 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:24:46 2014. No that's not why. They don't have right of return because they mostly voluntarily walked away from their homes, as I understand it (though it may be more complicated than that). |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri May 9 09:40:05 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:25:20 2014. It seems you don't. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 9 09:52:43 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 20:27:45 2014. all ~56 million JewsHuh? I see numbers like 13 million. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 9 10:00:17 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by Nilet on Thu May 8 19:27:50 2014. But you're implying hereMaybe Israel shouldn't keep Palestine impoverished to the point that their residents are willing to vote for anybody who offers them hope, no matter how tenuous? that Israel is the sole cause of Palestinian impoverishment. Which is, of course, not the case. |
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