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| (311248) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:18:25 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 17:51:51 2016. Wrong |
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| (311249) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:19:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:08:31 2016. And he's been deceitful for a while. Unless he's become demented. Which would be bad. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:20:16 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:05:29 2016. Where in the world did you get that from??? Are you even reading what we're telling you??? |
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| (311251) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:20:53 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:17:51 2016. Unless it is not the actual peak, it really is all that matters. I think you have trouble understanding what peak means.No. What happens in the peak hour IS ALL THAT MATTERS with regards to capacity. NO. Saving 10 minutes on a 75 minute trip is not insignificant at all. It is VERY significant. HUGE even! |
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| (311252) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:23:21 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:17:51 2016. LOL!!!! It's not meaningless at all. You've completely lost track of what is being discussed. This is hilarious. Unless of course it is medically induced. In which case you need to get help. |
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| (311253) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:24:05 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:20:53 2016. Agreed on all points. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:29:17 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Feb 24 23:28:34 2016. How many tines do I have to show you that bus riders are outnumbered five to one? You choose to only look at a one hour period, not a 24 hour period, which must be looked at for a proposal in effect for 24 hours.Look at the counts given for crossing Woodhaven at Metropolitan Avenue. The south crosswalk shows 54 crossing within the peak hour. That is less than one person crossing per minute AND THAT IS THE PEAK! Further, no accident data has been provided for that intersection, but DOT wants to reduce road capacity at that location from 6 northbound lanes and six southbound lanes (including turn lanes) to three general traffic lanes for each direction. THAT IS A 50 PERCENT REDUCTION IN ROAD CAPACITY TO SERVE TWO PASSENGERS CROSSING WOODHAVEN PER MINUTE DURING THE PEAK HOUR if you look at both crosswalks. And you are saying that a 50 percent reduction in road capacity for general traffic will make it move faster. TOTALLY UTTER NONSENSE!!! |
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| (311255) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 18:39:41 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:29:17 2016. LOL!!!!' Do you know anything about transportation planning?? You have to consider the number of vehicles per hour using those six lanes!!! If it's only 20 vehicles an hour, for a hypothetical example, then the supposed so-called 50% reduction wouldn't be a problem at all. |
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| (311256) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:40:22 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Feb 26 09:47:31 2016. What numbers are you using? The first year of operation? Utterly ridiculous. In 2025, will you still be using those numbers to claim success?In 2014, (the last year available) the M34, M15, M60 and B44 all declined. And why are you counting the Q70 and Q33? I thought we were only discussing routes with existing SBS. |
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| (311257) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:45:22 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Feb 24 23:29:04 2016. You certainly did. You stated:"And motorists don't' don't? Give me a break." In response to my statement about bus riders exaggerating. |
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| (311258) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 9 18:47:52 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:02:42 2016. I don't believe that about the car trips. |
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| (311259) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 18:48:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 17:51:51 2016. But everyone behind you is not tapping their brakes (then reaccelerating) as you slow for the left lane pocket. |
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| (311260) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 18:49:48 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 17:51:51 2016. 2 blocks extra in not exactly like driving to Buffalo. The vast majority are not making left turns. |
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| (311261) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 9 18:50:34 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 9 13:48:55 2016. That was my theory when he was unable to follow along in the JFK assassination thread. |
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| (311262) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:51:03 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:02:42 2016. The exclusive lanes gave ZERO EFFECT ON BUS SPEED DURING THE OFF-PEAK.AND IT CERTAINLY WILL MAKE CAR TRIPS SLOWER. YOU CANNOT REDUCE ROAD CAPACITY BY UP TO 50 PERCENT FOR GENERAL TRAFFIC and also claim it will move faster. WILL NEVER HAPPEN. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:53:40 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 9 18:47:52 2016. Why not? Fewer merges, Fewer separate left turn cycles. |
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| (311264) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:54:44 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:03:22 2016. The average car WILL BE STUCK IN TRAFFIC MORE. It has already happened in Rego Park which is why cars have already switched to Alderton Street. When it becomes a one way southbound, those cars will be forced back to to Woodhaven.If cars will be stuck less in traffic they wouldn't have already chosen to avoid it by shifting to an already slow residential street. THEY DID THAT BECAUSE TRAFFIC ON WOODHAVEN IS BARELY MOVING IN REGO PARK during the AM peak hour since the addition of the bus lane. THAT MEANS MORE AIR POLLUTION NOT LESS. |
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| (311265) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:56:47 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 18:48:37 2016. That certainly does not outweigh the extra pollution from the extra distances traveled. |
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| (311266) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:02:09 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 18:53:40 2016. Do entire light cycles take less time if the left turn phase goes away ? |
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| (311267) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:02:48 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:56:47 2016. Yes it does. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 19:04:05 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 18:49:48 2016. Who said its only two blocks extra? And when traffic is barely moving two extra blocks can take 20 minutes.If you look. At a single left turn it may be only three to 10 cars per cycle. But when you add up all those making left turns at all 21 intersections where it will be prohibited and consider that number for a 24 hour period, it certainly does become significant. And as long as you brought up driving to Buffalo, I could say that the numbers of cars staying on the thruway far outweighs those exiting at any particular exit between Albany and Buffalo. But that doesn't mean that most of the cars on the Thruway are all traveling from Albany to Buffalo. Yet you seem to be saying that because few make left and right turns at each intersection most drivers never have the need to turn and always want to drive straight. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:08:30 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:29:17 2016. "How many tines do I have to show you that bus riders are outnumbered five to one?"Once. The count is still zero. "You choose to only look at a one hour period," Yes. The one hour which matters. If you suspect the peak is a different hour, I'm all ears for why you think that. "not a 24 hour period, which must be looked at for a proposal in effect for 24 hours." 24 hour period totals is absolutely useless when designing for peak capacity. "Look at the counts given for crossing Woodhaven at Metropolitan Avenue." Why?? "The south crosswalk shows 54 crossing within the peak hour. That is less than one person crossing per minute AND THAT IS THE PEAK!" Ok. Has no relevance at all to the discussion though. "Further, no accident data has been provided for that intersection, but DOT wants to reduce road capacity at that location from 6 northbound lanes and six southbound lanes (including turn lanes) to three general traffic lanes for each direction. THAT IS A 50 PERCENT REDUCTION IN ROAD CAPACITY TO SERVE TWO PASSENGERS CROSSING WOODHAVEN PER MINUTE DURING THE PEAK HOUR if you look at both crosswalks." Actually, it isn't. Turn lanes don't provide through capacity. Left turn lanes REDUCE through capacity. The right turn lanes AREN'T BEING ELIMINATED. And furthermore, the purpose of such is NOT solely for pedestrian convenience! AND PERHAPS, THERE ARE FEW PEDESTRIANS CROSSING THERE BECAUSE IT IS AN UNSAFE INTERSECTION!!! Wow! "And you are saying that a 50 percent reduction in road capacity for general traffic will make it move faster. TOTALLY UTTER NONSENSE!!!" A. Not a 50% reduction. B. Red lights will be 15 seconds shorter. C. Just south of Metropolitan, traffic currently merges down to 3 lanes anyway. That merge will be eliminated. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:11:03 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:54:44 2016. "The average car WILL BE STUCK IN TRAFFIC MORE. It has already happened in Rego Park which is why cars have already switched to Alderton Street. When it becomes a one way southbound, those cars will be forced back to to Woodhaven."You keep saying this. I keep asking you where you get the data that Alderton traffic increased because of the Woodhaven bus lanes. You still have not answered me. "If cars will be stuck less in traffic they wouldn't have already chosen to avoid it by shifting to an already slow residential street. THEY DID THAT BECAUSE TRAFFIC ON WOODHAVEN IS BARELY MOVING IN REGO PARK during the AM peak hour since the addition of the bus lane. THAT MEANS MORE AIR POLLUTION NOT LESS." You claim that they are stuck in traffic more now. You have not substantiated it whatsoever. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:13:16 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 19:04:05 2016. You are the one complaining about distance, now it's cycles.So 3 to 10 per left turns per cycle will instead make 3 right turns. But cycles will take less time with left turn phase eliminated. It's a wash. There's no left turns allowed on the NYST. Access and entrance ramps with the toll barriers are geometrically quite elaborate, and all vehicles pass through 2 of them: one to get on, one to get off. No one in 60 years has ever complained about them. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:15:29 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:51:03 2016. "The exclusive lanes gave ZERO EFFECT ON BUS SPEED DURING THE OFF-PEAK."Your claim. Obviously the benefits will be reduced, but I see no reason to believe they will be nonexistent. "AND IT CERTAINLY WILL MAKE CAR TRIPS SLOWER." No. You have not substantiated such. "A YOU CANNOT REDUCE ROAD CAPACITY BY UP TO 50 PERCENT FOR GENERAL TRAFFIC and also claim it will move faster. WILL NEVER HAPPEN." But there is no reduction in road capacity by anywhere near 50%. Even so, That is a false claim. Reductions in road capacity CAN CERTAINLY make traffic move faster, even ones GREATER than 50%. Say you have a road which is a 6 lane highway, which suddenly narrows down to a single lane in each direction. If they were to make it a 2 lane highway without the 6 lane segment, the through capacity is the same, but without the traffic caused by the merge, people would go through faster. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:19:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:02:09 2016. To be honest, I am not sure where they'd allocate the time from the left turn cycle. Longer phases in a cycle of the same length? Shorter cycles? One phase gets all of the extra time?(I would assume Woodhaven would, but maybe I shouldn't)That is a good question! Either way, The net time and capacity dedicated to straight running on each road would obviously go up. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:22:23 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:45:22 2016. I didn't make that statement.fdtutf did. BUT your added poor grammar to his statement aside, Nobody is trying to use bus riders perceived delays as data. You are trying to do so for cars. So yes, NOBODY IS SAYING THAT. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:25:27 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:40:22 2016. "What numbers are you using?"For some reason I think you know! "The first year of operation?" YES!!!! YOU'RE LEARNING! "Utterly ridiculous." Utterly algebraic! I ISOLATED THE VARIABLE! "In 2025, will you still be using those numbers to claim success?" OF COURSE!!! "In 2014, (the last year available) the M34, M15, M60 and B44 all declined." WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SBS IMPROVEMENTS AT ALL!!! "And why are you counting the Q70 and Q33? I thought we were only discussing routes with existing SBS." Because the M60-Q70-Q33 was a MAJOR route restructuring which clearly affects riders of all 3 routes! |
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| (311276) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:34:50 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:19:42 2016. People who do not believe in this should try a NJ highway like US1.I laughed at the idea of jug handles when I first move here many years ago. Now I see they are much safer than left turn lanes, and cars taking left turns with oncoming, or overloading left turn bays. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 19:57:30 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:22:23 2016. Owned. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 19:58:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:34:50 2016. Why would you ever laugh at them? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 20:00:25 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 19:58:24 2016. I thought, why here and no place else. Didn't understand their advantages. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:02:54 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:56:47 2016. How do you know????? LOL!!!! |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:04:01 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 19:04:05 2016. LOL!!! 20 minute to go two blocks!!!! LOL!!!!ĦĦ |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:04:49 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 9 18:50:34 2016. You are wise beyond your years. |
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| (311283) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:07:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 20:00:25 2016. OK... |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 20:08:15 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:04:01 2016. Well, if there's a wreck at the intersection. I can see 5 minutes at worst for 2 - 3 cycles.People also need to plan ahead. If the gas station is on the left side of the road heading home, plan ahead. Get gas on the way in in the morning, or use a right side gas station. I see people making awkward and dangerous maneuvers all the time they could have avoided with a little thought. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 20:09:41 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 19:34:50 2016. Yes. They are great when there is the room for them.Looking over the plan I see a few places where there is some jughandle like setup, many using local streets: Left on Penelope from NB: 63rd drive functions as a jug handle. Metropolitan: Rights on 73rd and Cooper make this one easy from both directions Left on Forest Park from NB: Actually getting a jug handle Atlantic avenue- Lefts will be allowed in both directions- Through lanes are elevated here so they won't be blocked by left turns. Left on 101 from SB: The split is just after Atlantic, but taking 94th street functions here. A few places where a jug handle might work out: Jamaica Avenue- There might be the space here. Rockaway Boulevard/Liberty ave- Probably is the space for something to be put in, but you could really just direct people to 103rd ave. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:12:39 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 20:08:15 2016. Wrecks aren't a normal occurrence. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 20:14:34 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Mar 9 20:12:39 2016. They would be if everyone on the road were Allan Rosen. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 9 20:20:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 20:09:41 2016. The better type is where you over-shot the intersection, then come around the block.The advance type, which sometimes uses the perpendicular street can be a pest. Vehicles come in and block the side street. If the side street has 2 lanes, one for left only, then it gets bad when they block both lines trying to get to the right lane. A semi can also choke up the whole place. I lived 2 block up 94th Street from Jamaica Av in the 1960's. Heading north, 94th St would have to be reversed, then use 86th Drive. Heading south, 88th Avenue also runs the wrong direction. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Mar 10 09:10:18 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Mar 9 18:29:17 2016. Given that the intersection in question looks to have a Pedestrian Level of Service on the order of D or E, maybe there are so few pedestrians because the crossing is so clearly terrible.But on that subject, how is it that in this enormous thread and the many other discussions you've derailed in your attempt to prove bus lanes would result in an increase in congestion that you've never once brought up roadway level of service as defined by the FHWA or AASHTO? I mean if I were attempting to prove an increase in traffic congestion I might attempt to demonstrate that a reduction in road capacity would send a road from LOS D to E or F. Yet somehow you, as a "planner" (and thus supposedly grounded in the mathematical aspects of transportation planning), have gone this entire thread without bringing up that subject once? In fact I can recall no instance of you referring to this most basic of traffic engineering shorthand in any of the screeds you've managed to get published over the years. Instead you've offered little more than what you feel the impact will be with no evidence beyond your anecdotal recollections and imaginings. It's almost as though you're wholly unfamiliar with even the barest rudiments of quantitative traffic engineering or even transportation planning and are only able to make qualitative arguments grounded entirely in anecdotal evidence. No, wait, that's precisely what it is. The shorthand version is BS. I'm sure you're furiously googling for FHWA and AASHTO pages at the moment, and I'd suggest your textbook may have a better definition. That assumes you kept that textbook. And that assumes that you were educated in the field you're attempting to pontificate on to the point that you change municipal policy. Anyway, in before Allen inserts his new favorite buzzword "level of service" into every other post. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 09:45:58 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:08:30 2016. As I explained at least three times already, in order for drivers and passengers to outnumber bus riders by only two to one in a 24 hour period which is the only period that needs to be addressed for a 24/7 proposa all cars cannot have any passengers and no car can be turning on or off the roadway. If you believe that is what is actually happening, there is no talking to you because you are just hopeless.It doesn't matter what the peak hour is, BECAUSE THE PROPOSAL IS NOT ONLY FOR THE PEAK HOUR. Get that through your thick head!!! No one is designing for peak hour capacity. THE PROPOSAL IS FOR A 24 HOUR PERIOD, again. If the lanes were proposed only for the peak hour, the discussion would be very different. Of course the numbers of people crossing the street has a SIGNIFICANCE. By adding islands and medians and bus bulbs at this corner, you are inconveniencing about 60,000 vehicles during the peak hour by cutting capacity for general traffic by 50 percent from 12 lanes to 6. If you count passengers, the number is even higher, more like 80,000 in order to help 60 people crossing the street that has not even shown to be dangerous. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTUFICATION for what is proposed at the intersection of Metropolitan and Woodhaven. Turn lanes certainly are part of capacity. And there is now a dedicated right turn lane WHICH WILL BE ELMINATED WITH A BUS BULB. Right turns will have to be made from the through lane instead requiring through cars to slow down reducing capacity through the intersection. And people cross a street because there is reason to do so. NO ONE IS AVOIDING CROSSING THE STREET BECAUSE IT ISN'T SAFE. The notion that crossing this intersection is unsafe is UNSUBSTANTIATED AND UNPROVEN. There is no merge that is being eliminated south of Metropolitan. There are presently two lanes in the main roadway and two lanes in the service road south of Union Turnpike. The two lanes from the main road and one lane from the service road goes to the overpass. The other lane splits between the service road and a right turn to Union Turnpike where virtually all traffic from that lane goes. Adding a bus lane creates a merge from three lanes to two lanes if there is a bus lane between Myrtle and Union Turnpike. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 09:49:47 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:11:03 2016. The residents of Alderton have renewed their request to make the street a one way southbound because they are claiming increased traffic since the bus lanes. You dismissed the request as anecdotal and meaningless.I have substantiated they are stuck in traffic according to numerous accounts that you have also dismissed saying drivers tend to exaggerate. You are waiting for DOT data which is promised in one year but most likely will never be made available anyway. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 09:56:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:15:29 2016. DOT privately admitted to me they don't see an increase in bus speed during the off-peak.It stands to reason that less capacity results in increased traffic but logic isn't one of your strong points. I showed you how capacity is being reduced from 12 lanes to 6 at Metropolitan but you refuse to consider turning lanes saying they have no effect on capacity when they clearly do. When a dedicated right turn lane is eliminated and has to be shared with a through traffic lane as proposed through capacity is also reduced. Your rant about a 6 lane segment is utterly meaningless because existing traffic on the six lane segment would be shifted to other roads you are not considering. |
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| (311296) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 10:02:08 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 19:25:27 2016. And when did they install SBS on the Q70?We are talking about SBS routes. Where is your data showing riders shifted from the M60 to the Q70 or Q33? Or are you relying on useless anecdotes? And you still will be using 2007 data in 2050 as well as in 2025 to prove your case? I won't be here in 2050 to debate you but others will show you are stupid you are. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 10:03:29 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Wed Mar 9 20:14:34 2016. Where is your data to support that? Have you heard any anecdotes? |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 10:12:14 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by WillD on Thu Mar 10 09:10:18 2016. LOS for motorized vehicles is only for highways and Woodhaven Boulevard is not a highway so any discussion of LOS is not appropriate here. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Mar 10 10:51:40 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 09:49:47 2016. "The residents of Alderton have renewed their request to make the street a one way southbound because they are claiming increased traffic since the bus lanes. You dismissed the request as anecdotal and meaningless. "You claim such. You have not backed it up in any way whatsoever. "I have substantiated they are stuck in traffic according to numerous accounts that you have also dismissed saying drivers tend to exaggerate. You are waiting for DOT data which is promised in one year but most likely will never be made available anyway." No, you have not substantiated that at all. The only accounts I have seen have said NO CHANGE TO THEIR AUTOMOBILE USE. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Mar 10 11:03:21 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Mar 10 09:45:58 2016. "As I explained at least three times already, in order for drivers and passengers to outnumber bus riders by only two to one in a 24 hour period which is the only period that needs to be addressed for a 24/7 proposa all cars cannot have any passengers and no car can be turning on or off the roadway. If you believe that is what is actually happening, there is no talking to you because you are just hopeless."Nobody ever said there are no passengers in any car, nor has anybody said they are all staying on the whole time. "It doesn't matter what the peak hour is, BECAUSE THE PROPOSAL IS NOT ONLY FOR THE PEAK HOUR. Get that through your thick head!!!" It DOES matter what the peak hour is, because the peak hour ACTUALLY IS THE ONLY HOUR THAT MATTERS FOR CAPACITY REQUIREMENTS. "No one is designing for peak hour capacity. THE PROPOSAL IS FOR A 24 HOUR PERIOD, again. If the lanes were proposed only for the peak hour, the discussion would be very different." No, they are in fact designing for peak hour capacity. That is a universal truth of planning- You design based on your peak capacity. "Of course the numbers of people crossing the street has a SIGNIFICANCE. By adding islands and medians and bus bulbs at this corner, you are inconveniencing about 60,000 vehicles during the peak hour by cutting capacity for general traffic by 50 percent from 12 lanes to 6. If you count passengers, the number is even higher, more like 80,000 in order to help 60 people crossing the street that has not even shown to be dangerous. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO JUSTUFICATION for what is proposed at the intersection of Metropolitan and Woodhaven." A. There is NO REDUCTION in capacity at Metropolitan. NONE WHATSOEVER. The intersection at Metropolitan WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE MORE CARS THAN PRIOR TO THIS PROJECT. "Turn lanes certainly are part of capacity. And there is now a dedicated right turn lane WHICH WILL BE ELMINATED WITH A BUS BULB." No. The Right turn lanes at metropolitan are being retained with Woodhaven SBS. The bus bulbs are AFTER the intersection in both directions. "Right turns will have to be made from the through lane instead requiring through cars to slow down reducing capacity through the intersection." Except they won't be. They'll be made from the right turn lanes. "And people cross a street because there is reason to do so. NO ONE IS AVOIDING CROSSING THE STREET BECAUSE IT ISN'T SAFE. The notion that crossing this intersection is unsafe is UNSUBSTANTIATED AND UNPROVEN." No. it is a blatantly unsafe intersection, but that is besides the point. Pedestrian safety is not the only purpose behind the Woodhaven reengineering. "There is no merge that is being eliminated south of Metropolitan. There are presently two lanes in the main roadway and two lanes in the service road south of Union Turnpike. The two lanes from the main road and one lane from the service road goes to the overpass. The other lane splits between the service road and a right turn to Union Turnpike where virtually all traffic from that lane goes." Yes, Woodhaven narrows down to three lanes immediately to the south. That is exactly my point. "Adding a bus lane creates a merge from three lanes to two lanes if there is a bus lane between Myrtle and Union Turnpike." It creates a merge from three lanes to three. Which isn't a merge. |
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