|
|
| Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights (1356072) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 7 of 7 |
||
|
| (1358566) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jul 4 16:22:52 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Michael549 on Sat Jul 4 15:03:54 2015. Yes, the weekends are different-- they are worse! Maybe when no work whatsoever is being done, the system has all sorts of excess capacity on weekends, but how often are there no GO's? Anyone who travels weekends knows that service can be awful, and criss-crossing trains doesn't help. Since fewer trains run on weekends, running them on time is all the more important. If the next train arrives in two minutes, missing one or being delayed probably isn't much of a problem, but if it isn't arriving for ten minutes, and one may need to make a connecting train, it's different. Simple is generally better, and the wisdom of straight-railing is obvious, especially on weekends. |
|
|
| (1358569) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 4 16:36:47 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jul 4 10:42:16 2015. The M terminating at W. 4th would be doing the same thing that the (non-rush hour) B train did during the early months of the Chrystie St. connection. |
|
|
| (1358571) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 16:47:18 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jul 4 16:22:52 2015. What is convenient operationally (straight-railing) does not necessarily work for customers.There is little correlation between OTP and those services that are isolated and therefore "straight-railed". There is no such thing "straight railing" when the 2 & 3 go local south of 34th when the 1 terminates at 14th, like this weekend. The traditional schedules are also not applicable. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1358572) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Michael549 on Sat Jul 4 16:48:21 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Jul 4 16:22:52 2015. From a previous message:"Yes, the weekends are different-- they are worse! Maybe when no work whatsoever is being done, the system has all sorts of excess capacity on weekends, but how often are there no GO's? Anyone who travels weekends knows that service can be awful, and criss-crossing trains doesn't help. Since fewer trains run on weekends, running them on time is all the more important. If the next train arrives in two minutes, missing one or being delayed probably isn't much of a problem, but if it isn't arriving for ten minutes, and one may need to make a connecting train, it's different. Simple is generally better, and the wisdom of straight-railing is obvious, especially on weekends." I completely agree with this post. Mike |
|
|
| (1358577) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 17:02:50 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by AlM on Sat Jul 4 14:23:45 2015. Which is why I brought up West 4th:Is having the (D) and (M) crisscross between Broadway-Lafayette and West 4 (northbound) or north of West 4 (southbound) with the (D) also having to cross back between 34th and 42nd perfect? NO! That said, it's probably the best compromise that brings the (M) to a much more useful terminal at West 4 that allows people to transfer to the A/C/D/E/F there PLUS the D/F/6 at Broadway-Lafayette (and is actually one less stop than sending the (M) to Chambers). That likely cuts the need for more trains if you sent the (M) to 145 (the next place you can turn without interfering with other lines) if you can't send the (M) to 71-Continental because of near-constant weekend G.O.'s on that line. Simply put, it's a balancing act and I'm looking for the best compromise on this. |
|
|
| (1358578) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 17:13:19 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 17:02:50 2015. That would require the tower operators to PAY ATTENTION off-peak and throw switches on que, which obviously some here think they cannot and should not have to do.If we were still running the complex BMT operation though Dekalb, with 2 Tunnel services, a Nassau Street service, and a Nassau Loop service off both the 4th Avenue and the Brighton during the rush, today's subway would be paralyzed. |
|
|
| (1358582) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:07:26 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Jul 4 16:36:47 2015. And this would be as I would do it weekends and late nights when trains are less frequent and disruptions are less likely. |
|
|
| (1358583) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:08:34 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 17:13:19 2015. And I would require them to pay attention then.It's not like we're talking about peak hours, which obviously are much different. |
|
|
| (1358584) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 18:16:01 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:08:34 2015. But the goal here seems to be to dumb down operations to be just like TTC, even taking people where they don't want to go. |
|
|
| (1358585) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 18:18:47 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:07:26 2015. No reason why a "disruption" should last more than a minute where there is a contest.But seeing how they love to stab a Queens-bound J at Essex for a late M from Forest Hills as much as 5 minutes quite often, it is not first come/first serve - these delays are manufactured. |
|
|
| (1358586) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:20:38 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 18:16:01 2015. That's the difference, I would refuse to "dumb down" operations and make people have to be alert and stay alert at all times.If they can't be alert enough to know that you would have tracks switches at four points on the 6th Avenue line (two northbound north or Broadway-Lafayette and 34th and two southbound south of 42nd and north of West 4th), then they should not be there in the first place and someone else capable of doing that should be. |
|
|
| (1358587) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 18:32:17 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 4 18:20:38 2015. They must love having no 6th Av service off 53rd Street on weekends. Left up to them, they'd spike down the switchpoints toward 8th Avenue all the time. |
|
|
| (1358607) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 00:44:28 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by R30A on Wed Jul 1 11:15:59 2015. True, but you also didn't have the kind of fumigation you do now. That's why terminating at QP would be tricky. |
|
|
| (1358608) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 00:54:42 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 15:22:51 2015. Exactly!!Even with the (M) ONLY going TWO additional stops north to West 4th (as opposed to THREE additional stops south to Chambers), even if it means the (D) and (M) have to cross so the (M) can use the express tracks at West 4 to terminate, it should not cause more than MAYBE a MINOR disruption at worst. Sure, there would be a few people that would whine about the (D) making two extra stops at 14th and 23rd Streets (weekends and late nights), but that would be minor compared to those in the Broadway-Brooklyn line who would now have a cross-platform transfer to the D/F and upstairs transfer to the A/C/E at West 4 and a same platform transfer to the D/F along with a transfer to the (6) (and (4) late nights) at Broadway-Lafayette they don't currently have outside of weekdays. |
|
|
| (1358612) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sun Jul 5 01:28:37 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Sat Jul 4 17:13:19 2015. Isn't it actually the train operators that have to pay attention? They're the ones who have to signal the tower for the lineup. If the tower fails to notice, ding 'em again. I mean, geez, the tower people don't have to stare at the board every second. |
|
|
| (1358615) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jul 5 01:51:07 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by 3-9 on Sun Jul 5 01:28:37 2015. Once you're rolling past the punch though, you're at the mercy of the tower and have to tie it down until they wake up. |
|
|
| (1358678) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 15:39:27 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jul 5 01:51:07 2015. Yes, and the idea is the tower people are supposed to be paying attention to what is going on. |
|
|
| (1358691) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 5 18:59:44 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 00:44:28 2015. No trickier than fumigating Parkchester locals or #5s at E 238 St. |
|
|
| (1358782) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 19:30:38 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 00:54:42 2015. It is a no-cost diversion.Same number of M train sets is required Same number of D train sets required with 1 - 2 minutes additional running time to stop at 14th and 23rd. People have their noses buried in the Smartphones and too incoherent to notice the difference. May induce some people off the L onto the M so that service might not be so congested and prone to boarding delays. There is nothing but institutional stubbornness and lethargy preventing it. |
|
|
| (1358784) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 19:31:45 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jul 5 15:39:27 2015. The punch box is there only to alert them. With a train every 5 or 10 minutes, they already have it easy. |
|
|
| (1359005) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 8 21:18:30 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 19:31:45 2015. Well, then, it would not be that much different on weekends.You would think people would be sharp enough to do their jobs enough to allow for the (D) and (M) to cross where needed so on weekends (and late nights) the (M) can terminate at West 4th, a WAY more useful terminal for (M) riders than Essex or Chambers (and one less stop than Chambers too). |
|
|
| (1359006) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 8 21:20:11 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Mon Jul 6 19:30:38 2015. Exactly!Some people are just too lazy to realize this or they just want the status quo because they fear not having enough competent people I'm guessing. |
|
|
| (1359014) | |
Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 9 00:52:50 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by jasonnyc on Tue Jun 16 10:29:23 2015. I feel that those of us that ride the IRT in Manhattan are used to seeing the 2 on the 5 or vice versa already.Key word there being us, referring to people who post on SubChat. You'd be surprised as to how non-railfans react when they see one. |
|
|
| (1359015) | |
Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Jul 9 00:55:51 2015, in response to Re: A Way to Run the M to Midtown on Weekends, posted by Michael549 on Mon Jun 22 02:14:22 2015. Agreed, but unfortunately, there are few people who take the time to learn one alternative route, much less all of them! |
|
|
| (1359111) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Jul 9 23:51:22 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jul 5 01:51:07 2015. Even so, it shouldn't be too difficult - we're talking about the switches just outside W 4 St, so the train operator will know immediately if the tower people are still asleep or not. :-) |
|
|
| (1359138) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jul 10 08:52:41 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 8 21:18:30 2015. A question is, how long a wait is needed between a D crossing from the inside to outside track, and an M crossing from outside to inside track, or vice versa? You would think that, once a train cleared the switch, a train could be lined up right away for the opposite movement, but I don't think that is possible. For example, at E. 180 St., in the PM rush, there is always a delay of at least a minute and a half or so between when a northbound (2) on the outside track leaves, and when a northbound (5) on the middle track leaves for Dyre Ave. The actual point where the trains cross paths is clear for most of that time, but I think a block that the switch is part of isn't. (Can someone confirm/clarify this?) If the same thing applied at W. 4th St., it could delay a northbound F train (or a D train) a bit. Probably not enough to be a real concern. |
|
|
| (1359240) | |
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jul 11 05:31:14 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Jul 10 08:52:41 2015. Especially since this would ONLY be done during off-peak hours when there are fewer trains in the first place.Main purpose is to get the (M) to an easier transfer point for those to get to midtown and West 4th seems to be the best compromise. |
|
|
|
Page 7 of 7 |
||
