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| Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders (1385063) | |
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| (1385549) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 18:32:31 2016, in response to Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by heypaul on Sun Feb 14 06:58:43 2016. Actually, it might make a bit more sense and keep some of our friends concerned about costs to lay down some 2x4's across 14th Street and have mule teams pull the trains across the Manhattan portion of the service.Given that Prince Andrew runs the MTA, this would also permit him to poke the Mayor in the eye by bringing more quadrupeds onto the streets of New York at the same time. |
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| (1385550) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 14 18:32:48 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 18:28:30 2016. So ? They'll transfer a 2nd time. |
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| (1385551) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 14 18:33:33 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 14 18:29:24 2016. West End line runs better in bad weather than the R on a sunny day in June. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1385555) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 14 18:49:36 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 18:29:38 2016. Ultra conservative bean counting...only useful for the Northeast,and other democratic states...not the Lone Star State or its buddies. |
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| (1385556) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 14 18:58:57 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 14 17:58:33 2016. No. |
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| (1385557) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 14 19:08:43 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 14 13:38:21 2016. Wasn't thinking of that, but that is something that ought to be considered. |
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| (1385564) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 14 19:46:22 2016, in response to Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by heypaul on Sun Feb 14 06:58:43 2016. The same thing was done when the Belt Parkway viaduct over the Coney Island subway yard was being rehabilitated many years ago; a temporary roadway was built over the whole thing while one side of the viaduct at a time was reconstructed. All I could think at the time was, "this isn't cheap." The idea of constructing a new tunnel isn't so farfetched, especially if the pain of reconstruction is just too much to spread around any other way. The problem is that "expedite" is a dirty word in MTA parlance, and NIMBY's would be out in force to obstruct anything that might help such a project along at either end. |
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| (1385566) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 20:40:03 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 14 19:46:22 2016. A temporary why a duck is a lot cheaper than a temporary tunnel, though. Maybe by a factor of 10. |
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| (1385568) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 14 20:48:42 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 20:40:03 2016. yes, but a new tunnel connecting Manh to Bklyn is also mny times greater than a roadway over a yard. |
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| (1385575) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 22:01:37 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 11:52:25 2016. Yeah, I should have known better. LOL! |
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| (1385576) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 14 22:45:15 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 13 15:33:03 2016. That gives most people more credit than they deserve. People have grown used to government solving their problems for them rather than take responsibility on their own. Of course, when one pays high taxes, one kind of has some right to expect that, too.If I had two years' notice, I might think about moving, but I'm unusual. |
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| (1385577) | |
Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 14 23:39:51 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 14 20:48:42 2016. Exactly!The NIMBYs are going to have to understand this would be an emergency build if it's done, one I would do with provisions to connect it and the rebuilt existing tubes to the SAS (with if so, joining the line going north at 23rd Street if such is later constructed). That would work and allow one tube to be shut down at a time. |
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| (1385580) | |
South 4 Streer |
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Posted by FarRock on Mon Feb 15 01:04:34 2016, in response to Re: Why Not Construct a 3rd Tube Between Now & 2018??..Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Feb 14 23:39:51 2016. If the South 4 Street Station was built we would've had another connection through the east river. The line could've connected to the express tracks at 2 Avenue/Houston |
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| (1385583) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 15 05:30:51 2016, in response to South 4 Streer, posted by FarRock on Mon Feb 15 01:04:34 2016. I think the South 4th street station called for 4 tunnels? Two from Houston St and 2 from East Broadway/Grand St. |
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Re: South 4th Street Brooklyn |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 15 06:57:29 2016, in response to South 4 Streer, posted by FarRock on Mon Feb 15 01:04:34 2016. That would have made sense.Do that, and that would have been able to connect to the (F) line on the "express" tracks at 2nd Avenue. |
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Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:19:01 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 14 18:58:57 2016. Why not ? |
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| (1385588) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:41:04 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 09:10:59 2016. The 3 stops between Marcy and Myrtle will be exceedingly busy with displaced L riders, many of them probably bused from L neighborhoods. It makes little sense for the M not to stop there.Unfortunately, on the eastbound trip, given that the Broadway Line will be running as many tph as they can manage, how will the M be able to make a left turn at Myrtle without delaying trains behind it? It's possible they may have to use the express track from Marcy to Myrtle for M trains and the local track for J/Z trains, just to avoid delaying J/Z trains. |
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| (1385589) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:49:25 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Feb 14 22:45:15 2016. Using the Millenials I work with at my office, they are semi-conscious, oblivious to the day's news, and generally lack common sense. Life is all about their I-Phone: Texting and GPS, that's it, then they go to lunch at Chipotle, food poisoning notwithstanding.- They have no knowledge of geography, none - They do not plan ahead - They do not plan a trip until the evening before, even on drives to Canada. So you think they will plan ahead and move off the L line months in advance to anticipate ? Their train on that first Monday in 2017 or 2018 morning will reach Bedford Avenue, they will get thrown off, and then act like they are in Peking Central Station and fanatically start texting their friends on what just happened and what they should do. |
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| (1385590) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 15 07:52:55 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:41:04 2016. how will the M be able to make a left turn at Myrtle without delaying trains behind it?That's easy. Myrtle trains in both directions are scheduled to arrive/leave Bway-Myrtle at the same time. Bway-Jct trains in both directions are scheduled to arrive/leave Bway-Myrtle are scheduled to arrive at the same time but a different time than the Myrtle Ave trains. A grade crossing Y junction should not cause delays or reduce service levels. |
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| (1385591) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:53:14 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:49:25 2016. they will get thrown offNah, they won't notice a thing until they realize the train has reversed direction and they're back at Lorimer. |
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| (1385592) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:56:34 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 15 07:52:55 2016. Excellent theory. But what happens when one of the sets of trains gets thrown 2 minutes off schedule? I can assure you that happens on the southbound (using NYCT geography) M with great regularity. |
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| (1385593) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 08:02:09 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:53:14 2016. Well I assume there could be some "fumigation" effort. |
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| (1385594) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 08:07:29 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 08:02:09 2016. Fumigation in the sense of an MTA employee in person yelling at you to get off the train only happens when a train is going into a relay or to a yard. It doesn't happen when a train is just reversing direction and continuing in service. At 14th/8th Ave, all you get is an automated announcement over the speakers that this is the last stop and everyone should get off. Nobody bothers you if you don't get off, and in fact in rush hour some people don't. |
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Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 15 08:17:41 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:56:34 2016. But what happens when one of the sets of trains gets thrown 2 minutes off schedule?What happens when trains are on schedule? Here's tomorrow's schedule at Bway-Myrtle, showing the conflict crossing: J/Z bound for Broad St vs. M to Metropolitan. Cut and paste into a spreadsheet. Database: SubwaySchedules DataSet: 14 - 20151207 - Date: 2016-02-15 Route, Direction, Origin, Destination J, 1, Broadway Jct, BROAD ST J, 1, Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer, BROAD ST Z, 1, Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer, BROAD ST M, 0, Middle Village - Metropolitan Av, FOREST HILLS - 71 AV M, 0, Middle Village - Metropolitan Av, MYRTLE AV Stop: M11 - Myrtle Av "Arrival Time";"Route";"Direction";"Trip";"Destination";"Origin Id";"Origin";"Departure Time";"Travel Time";"Headway" "00:02:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_143000_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"23:50:00";"00:12:00";"00:00:00" "00:05:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_141350_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"23:33:30";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "00:18:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_144600_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"00:06:00";"00:12:00";"00:13:00" "00:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_143050_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"23:50:30";"00:31:30";"00:04:00" "00:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_002400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"00:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "00:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_000850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"00:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "00:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_004400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"00:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "01:02:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_002850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"00:28:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "01:16:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_006400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"01:04:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "01:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_004850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"00:48:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "01:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_008400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"01:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "01:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_006850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"01:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "01:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_010400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"01:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "02:02:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_008850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"01:28:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "02:16:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_012400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"02:04:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "02:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_010850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"01:48:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "02:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_014400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"02:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "02:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_012850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"02:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "02:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_016400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"02:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "03:02:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_014850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"02:28:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "03:16:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_018400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"03:04:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "03:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_016850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"02:48:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "03:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_020400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"03:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "03:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_018850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"03:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "03:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_022400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"03:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "04:02:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_020850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"03:28:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "04:16:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_024400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"04:04:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "04:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_022850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"03:48:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "04:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_026400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"04:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "04:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_024850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"04:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "04:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_028400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"04:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "05:02:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_026850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"04:28:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "05:16:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_030400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:04:00";"00:12:00";"00:14:00" "05:22:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_028850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"04:48:30";"00:33:30";"00:06:00" "05:26:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_031400_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:14:00";"00:12:00";"00:04:00" "05:36:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_032400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:24:00";"00:12:00";"00:10:00" "05:39:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_032750_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:27:30";"00:12:00";"00:03:30" "05:42:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_030850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"05:08:30";"00:33:30";"00:02:30" "05:51:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_033950_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:39:30";"00:12:00";"00:09:30" "05:56:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_034400_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:44:00";"00:12:00";"00:04:30" "05:57:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_032500_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"05:25:00";"00:32:00";"00:01:00" "06:03:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_035150_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"05:51:30";"00:12:00";"00:06:30" "06:11:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_033900_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"05:39:00";"00:32:30";"00:08:00" "06:12:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_036000_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - 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71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"19:59:30";"00:12:00";"00:01:30" "20:21:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_118900_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"19:49:00";"00:32:00";"00:09:30" "20:22:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_121050_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:10:30";"00:12:00";"00:01:30" "20:29:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_121700_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:17:00";"00:12:00";"00:06:30" "20:32:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_120050_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"20:00:30";"00:32:00";"00:03:30" "20:40:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_122800_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:28:00";"00:12:00";"00:07:30" "20:44:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_121250_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"20:12:30";"00:32:00";"00:04:30" "20:51:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_123950_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:39:30";"00:12:00";"00:07:00" "20:56:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_122450_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"20:24:30";"00:32:00";"00:05:00" "21:00:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_124800_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:48:00";"00:12:00";"00:03:30" "21:08:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_123650_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"20:36:30";"00:32:00";"00:08:30" "21:10:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_125800_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"20:58:00";"00:12:00";"00:01:30" "21:20:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_124850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"20:48:30";"00:32:00";"00:10:30" "21:22:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_127050_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"21:10:30";"00:12:00";"00:02:00" "21:30:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_127850_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"21:18:30";"00:12:00";"00:08:00" "21:32:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_126100_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"21:01:00";"00:31:30";"00:02:00" "21:41:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_128950_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"21:29:30";"00:12:00";"00:09:00" "21:44:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_127300_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"21:13:00";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "21:54:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_130200_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"21:42:00";"00:12:00";"00:09:30" "21:56:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_128500_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"21:25:00";"00:31:30";"00:02:30" "22:06:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_131400_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"21:54:00";"00:12:00";"00:09:30" "22:08:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_129700_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"21:37:00";"00:31:30";"00:02:30" "22:17:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_132550_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"22:05:30";"00:12:00";"00:09:00" "22:20:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_130900_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"21:49:00";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "22:32:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_134000_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"22:20:00";"00:12:00";"00:11:30" "22:35:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_132350_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"22:03:30";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "22:42:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_135050_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"22:30:30";"00:12:00";"00:07:30" "22:50:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_133850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"22:18:30";"00:31:30";"00:07:30" "22:53:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_136150_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"22:41:30";"00:12:00";"00:03:30" "23:04:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_135300_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"22:33:00";"00:31:30";"00:11:00" "23:06:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_137400_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"22:54:00";"00:12:00";"00:01:30" "23:17:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_138500_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"23:05:00";"00:12:00";"00:11:00" "23:20:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_136850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"22:48:30";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "23:32:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_140000_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"23:20:00";"00:12:00";"00:12:00" "23:35:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_138350_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"23:03:30";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" "23:47:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_141500_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"23:35:00";"00:12:00";"00:12:00" "23:50:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_139850_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"23:18:30";"00:31:30";"00:03:00" Here's an extract of the same data, showing where they are scheduled to meet within 1 minute of one another. Database: SubwaySchedules DataSet: 14 - 20151207 - Date: 2016-02-15 Route, Direction, Origin, Destination J, 1, Broadway Jct, BROAD ST J, 1, Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer, BROAD ST Z, 1, Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer, BROAD ST M, 0, Middle Village - Metropolitan Av, FOREST HILLS - 71 AV M, 0, Middle Village - Metropolitan Av, MYRTLE AV Stop: M11 - Myrtle Av "Arrival Time";"Route";"Direction";"Trip";"Destination";"Origin Id";"Origin";"Departure Time";"Travel Time";"Headway" "10:09:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_057700_J..S13R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"09:37:00";"00:32:00";"00:00:00" "12:59:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_074700_J..S13R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"12:27:00";"00:32:00";"00:00:00" "06:12:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_036000_M..N30R";"MYRTLE AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"06:00:00";"00:12:00";"00:00:30" "08:10:30";"Z";"1";"B20151206WKD_046250_J..S16R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"07:42:30";"00:28:00";"00:00:30" "08:26:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_049350_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"08:13:30";"00:12:30";"00:00:30" "08:40:30";"Z";"1";"B20151206WKD_049250_J..S16R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"08:12:30";"00:28:00";"00:00:30" "08:55:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_052350_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"08:43:30";"00:12:00";"00:00:30" "09:03:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_051000_J..S13R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"08:30:00";"00:33:00";"00:00:30" "11:29:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_067750_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"11:17:30";"00:12:00";"00:00:30" "11:59:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_070750_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"11:47:30";"00:12:00";"00:00:30" "12:29:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_073750_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"12:17:30";"00:12:00";"00:00:30" "05:57:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_032500_J..S12R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"05:25:00";"00:32:00";"00:01:00" "07:55:30";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_044750_J..S15R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"07:27:30";"00:28:00";"00:01:00" "08:01:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_046900_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"07:49:00";"00:12:30";"00:01:00" "08:46:30";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_051400_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"08:34:00";"00:12:30";"00:01:00" "09:59:00";"J";"1";"B20151206WKD_056700_J..S13R";"BROAD ST";"G05S";"Jamaica Center - Parsons/Archer";"09:27:00";"00:32:00";"00:01:00" "13:29:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_079700_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"13:17:00";"00:12:00";"00:01:00" "17:04:00";"M";"0";"B20151206WKD_101200_M..N20R";"FOREST HILLS - 71 AV";"M01N";"Middle Village - Metropolitan Av";"16:52:00";"00:12:00";"00:01:00" |
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| (1385596) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by numbersix on Mon Feb 15 08:25:11 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 14 18:28:30 2016. Too late. Chinese and Russians beat you to it. |
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| (1385597) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Feb 15 08:32:06 2016, in response to Re: South 4 Streer, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 15 05:30:51 2016. you are semi-correct,not from east b`way but from worth st.on the E.plans called for an 8 track station,cut back to 6. |
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| (1385601) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 09:29:34 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 07:41:04 2016. Make a lot of sense for the M to be the express because it will be chock full by Bway/Myrtle and they won't be able to get on down the line anyway.The J has room to spare. |
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| (1385603) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 15 10:02:37 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:19:01 2016. LOL! |
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| (1385604) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 10:07:37 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 15 08:17:41 2016. Sure, but now there are at most 12 J/Z tph coming inbound and 8 M trains and 12 J/Z trains outbound. So if you have a conflict, maybe the outbound M sits for a minute or two. But it doesn't back up the J/Z trains behind it because they aren't coming on a regular basis every 2 minutes.If you're running 30 tph, and that's all the system can be managed to handle, then a delay of an M train causes a delay behind that can't be recovered from until rush hour is over. |
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| (1385608) | |
Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 15 11:06:48 2016, in response to Re: Disaster At The Community Board Meeting, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 10:07:37 2016. If you're running 30 tph, and that's all the system can be managed to handle, then a delay of an M train causes a delay behind that can't be recovered from until rush hour is over.The greater the service level, the more precise the schedule needs to be and the less tolerance there will be for deviations from that schedule. That's assuming the schedule does not generate the switching conflicts, which my schedule extract shows they do. This applies to the entire system. It's a problem that's not unique to grade crossings. If NYCT cannot manage 30 tph at a grade crossing, they will not be able to manage 30 tph anywhere in the system. Here's an extract that shows the TA's thinking regarding precision on schedules. Google set up a format for displaying real time transit data. Here's the TA's explanation of how they represent time of day. 021150 – This identifies the trips origin time. Times are coded reflecting hundredths of a minute past midnight and converts to (03:31:30 also described as 0331+ where the + equals 30 seconds). This format provides more "precision" than can be realistically attributed to a transit operation, and most applications can safely round or truncate these numbers to the nearest minute. Since Transit authority internal timetables frequently involve half-minute scheduling, systems involved in train control or monitoring will need to represent times in a more accurate manner (to at least the half minute, and perhaps to the tenth minute or one second level) |
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| (1385609) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Feb 15 11:07:50 2016, in response to South 4 Streer, posted by FarRock on Mon Feb 15 01:04:34 2016. If pigs had wings...We could air lift them to Isisstan and drive all of the Isisstani terrorists out. ROAR |
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| (1385611) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Feb 15 11:20:44 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:49:25 2016. Your rant is inconsistent. If they're all about their GPS, why wouldn't they use the GPS at Bedford? |
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| (1385612) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 11:41:14 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Feb 15 11:20:44 2016. They will and it will be of no use. There will be no train or bridge over to Manhattan from there. They'll text their way back to the J line. |
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| (1385614) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Feb 15 11:55:14 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 11:41:14 2016. How will it be of no use? The GPS would tell them to go to the G or the J or something. |
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| (1385616) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 12:01:37 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Feb 15 11:55:14 2016. The original point was they will make no advance plans to avoid the whole debacle before they unsuspectingly walk right into it on the first day. |
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| (1385619) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 15 12:51:19 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 07:49:25 2016. From a previous message:"Their train on that first Monday in 2017 or 2018 morning will reach Bedford Avenue, they will get thrown off, and then act like they are in Peking Central Station and fanatically start texting their friends on what just happened and what they should do." While your exact point is debate-able, I believe that the MTA should establish a limited bus route between the Bedford Avenue station and Manhattan via the Williamsburg Bridge, especially if and when both tubes of the 14th Street are closed for repair. I think such a bus is needed, even with added service to local buses that meet other train lines such as the J-M-Z, G, etc; even with the strongly suggested transfers to other subway lines, and even with plentiful maps and information on transportation options. The exact Manhattan terminal bus stop of this limited bus is debate-able, but I think such a bus is necessary. Mike |
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| (1385620) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 12:57:13 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 15 12:51:19 2016. Extend the B39 |
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| (1385622) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 15 13:07:40 2016, in response to Re: South 4 Streer, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 15 05:30:51 2016. 6 tunnels: connections to 8 Av local (Worth St), 6 Av express (Houston St), 2 Av local (in a truly bizarre configuration which would have run under Stanton St). |
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| (1385623) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 13:19:10 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 15 12:51:19 2016. Sure, add a bus.The L train carries 480 bus loads of people under the East River in its busiest hour. The WB and Midtown Tunnel are already bumper to bumper in the rush hour, and I doubt NYCT has that many buses lying around doing nothing. So of course you can add bus service. But it will have a minimal effect on the whole situation and it won't be very popular anyway because it will take a lot longer than being bused in 10 minutes to Marcy Ave and taking a frequently running M from there. |
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| (1385624) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 15 13:31:55 2016, in response to Re: South 4 Streer, posted by K. Trout on Mon Feb 15 13:07:40 2016. The Worth and Houston Sts tunnels I know about. I was always under the assumption that they were the only 2 feeders to South 4th St from Manhattan. Never heard about a Stanton St tunnel, from 2nd Ave to South 4th St. Could you show me those proposed drawings or give me a site? |
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| (1385625) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 13:43:47 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 13:19:10 2016. Absolutely correct.Having buses from any station on the L line over the Willy B is not the answer when you consider train capacity vs. bus capacity. Plus our bus availability is maxed out in the rush. Whenever you see emergency unplanned shuttle buses M-F covering subway service, these buses are pulled from regular routes. |
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| (1385626) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 13:46:00 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 13:43:47 2016. They can cherry-pick some RTS's for retention through the project. |
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| (1385627) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 13:47:03 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 13:46:00 2016. But you need a larger roster of operators to drive them. |
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| (1385628) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 13:48:45 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 13:47:03 2016. So hire them (from NICE). |
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| (1385629) | |
Re: South 4 Streer |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Feb 15 14:04:22 2016, in response to Re: South 4 Streer, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Feb 15 13:31:55 2016. me too! |
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| (1385630) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 14:11:49 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 13:48:45 2016. There are sufficient candidates from the civil Service list.Hiring more drivers solely due to the L shutdown increases costs to NYCT due to additional payroll and benefits. It also comes down to the efficiency of bus vs. train. You need a lot of buses to handle the crowd from one train. It is more efficient for NYCT to add service to other subway lines where ever they can. |
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| (1385632) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 14:16:17 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 14:11:49 2016. They can charge hiring more drivers solely due to the L shutdown on the capital budget.If they run what they think is capacity M service, given that it has to also get along with the F, or have no more 480's capable train sets around, and the trains are packed like sardines, then you have to go with more buses. |
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| (1385634) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 15 14:35:05 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 14:16:17 2016. Ok, good. |
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| (1385635) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 14:47:59 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 15 14:16:17 2016. If they run what they think is capacity M service, given that it has to also get along with the F, or have no more 480's capable train sets around, and the trains are packed like sardines, then you have to go with more buses. True. But the L will have quite a few spare cars. Huge numbers of people won't be taking the L if the tunnel is closed. And those that do will be more diffused and taking it for shorter rides. For example, someone coming from Canarsie might currently be riding the L into Manhattan. With the tubes closed, they will probably switch to another train at Broadway Junction or Myrtle-Wyckoff. |
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| (1385636) | |
Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 15 15:01:56 2016, in response to Re: One proposed alternative service for L riders, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 15 13:19:10 2016. From a previous message:"So of course you can add bus service. But it will have a minimal effect on the whole situation and it won't be very popular anyway because it will take a lot longer than being bused in 10 minutes to Marcy Ave and taking a frequently running M from there." When ever I have brought up the suggestion of such a limited bus between the Bedford Avenue station and Manhattan, it was in the context of several other options also occurring. I do not promote such a bus idea as the "supreme solution" to the L-train tunnel closure, but one among several options for the riders. The complaint that "anything" that could be done "will have a minimal effect on the whole situation" almost at its extreme supports the idea that "nothing should be done". That is something that I know you're not saying. Having several options in place (in the event of a closure) even if each option is "minimal" by some standard that can actually help the immediate riders of the L-train - is best. Not having to fix the tunnels in the first place - that is Hurricane Sandy not hitting NYC at all - would have been much better - but that's not how the cookie crumbled. Mike |
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