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| Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway (464011) | |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 09:42:00 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jul 26 09:33:13 2007. Yeah, that's was the beautiful RKO Bushwick Theater. It closed in the early 70's to movies, was a church for a bout a year, and then no one every occupied it again. It fell into complete shambles by the late 90's, after 25-30 years complete neglect. Around 2002, the city took over it, and THANKFULLY, instead of tearing it down, they restored the beautiful exterior. The inside was not salvagable, as all the plaster was destroyed from years of rain pouring through the building, and while it is not a theater anymore, it was converted into the ACORN school of Social Justice, and serves the Bushwick community, and is now a beautiful building, an asset to the community. To their credit, they could have just torn it down and put up some non-descript school building in it's place. The place looks wonderful. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:51:11 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 18:58:06 2007. My father did. When he saw the South Bronx in ruins, he would say, what a pity? I don't know why hey are tearing them down. They're built of solid construction. I don't understand why they can't be saved. |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:55:13 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 19:03:03 2007. But that was the promise made in 1969 by city officials. They said the tearing down of the el will lead to a revitalized Myrtle Avenue. I think they thought it would happen in about five years. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 09:55:18 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:51:11 2007. Unfortunately, he was one of the minority opinions at the time.A smart man for his time.... |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 09:57:49 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:55:13 2007. Yup....that's what they thought unfortunately....and Jamaica Ave in 1977 too, but we still weren't ready revitalize then either yet. It was a long road. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:58:30 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 19:04:29 2007. But you said the Bronx was on its way down before the XBronx. Now you are agreeing with me that it was after the XBronx. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:04:08 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SMAZ on Thu Jul 26 03:02:18 2007. You are right about LaGuardia being cannonized. One of the points Caro made in the Power Broker was that LaGuardia's and Moses' personalities were very similar. That's why they didn't get along. The same can be said about FDR. Yet today, the only one we look back at in distaste is Moses. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:09:31 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 19:06:41 2007. I think tunnels are more expensive. That's why all the tunnels are only two lanes in each direction. The third tunnel in the Linclon wasn't added until years later. Bridges on the other hand are at least six lanes in each direction. The only advantage of tunnels as I can see is that there is less demolition needed for access roads. The GW probably was built as a bridge because demolition for access roads wasn't a problem up there like it is in midtown. Remember the Queensborough was built early on and the Midtown Tunnel much later. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:19:33 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 09:58:30 2007. Okay, I should have said, that "the Bronx was on the path to decline even before the Cross Bronx" (just like the other areas that were on the path to decline (like Bushwick, etc, and those never had an expressway slammed through them). |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:20:05 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 19:11:23 2007. True, but you're forgetting one thing. While it is true there were fewer lights on the local roads back then, it is also true that most of them have since been improved. I'm talking specifically of widening at intersections to permit easier right and left turns, rather than widening for their entire length. Now traffic on these roads like Old Country Road, for example, even where it is only two lanes wide is not that bad because capacity has been increased at the intersections. Back in the 30's, I suspect, long back ups at the the traffic lights on peak days. So it wasn't a case of just stopping for the light. It was a case of stopping and waiting and waiting and waiting for the light, (not to mention the slow downs for turns and blind driveways, etc.) so I think they were much slower than the parkways which probably still moved along at a steady 20 mph when they were crowded. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:22:40 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:09:31 2007. Okay, so what are we disagreeing about here? If a bridge is cheaper (and I also thought they are), and RObert Moses liked them to play on his ego (which is irrelevant), and they are more practical, what is the argument here? He built tunnels and bridges, apparently tunnels where they were more practical, and apparently bridges where they were more practical, so obviously, he could have just built a "Midtown Bridge", or a "Lincoln Bridge" if he only built things to suit his ego. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Jul 26 10:28:23 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jul 26 03:02:14 2007. Amazing. I'm sure you think that impresses people, when you write stuff like that. You wanna be living in a world of pain, whatever. Anybody can play that. Here, I'll write just like you:Poor "white" folk living on Long Island without cars, living in areas just as distant, or even much further, from the beaches as poor "black" folk living in Queens and Brooklyn without cars have an even longer travel time to the beaches. Poor "white" folk living on Long Island without cars have a much rougher time of just getting around to do what they gotta do...like getting to work than poor "black" folk living in Queens and Brooklyn without cars just getting around to do what they gotta do...like getting to work. Poor "white" folk living on Long Island without cars have much less of an opportunity to avail themselves of governmental assistance than do poor "black" folk living in Queens and Brooklyn without cars seeking to avail themselves of governmental assistance. Poor "white" folk living on Long Island without cars have even worse access to good medical care than do poor "black" folk living in Queens and Brooklyn without cars. Neighborhoods in Queens and Brooklyn currently inhabited by poor "blacks" were previously inhabited by poor "whites" living in the same buildings under the same if not worse conditions? (Case in point: my old man. Grew up in South Jamaica.) Happy? |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:32:15 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:20:05 2007. True, but it's also relative to the traffic levels back then too. And the areas were rural yet, so less traffic from the towns themselves. Cars were only beginning to take off in the 1930's, it was still a "rich man's" thing more or less. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:33:47 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by ntrainride on Thu Jul 26 10:28:23 2007. Yes, it's not a "black and white" thing really, it's a "poor and rich" thing more. People keep forgetting that white people were poor too, not just blacks. "Poor" does not discrimnate. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:39:11 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Michael549 on Thu Jul 26 03:02:14 2007. "Robert Moses who through his Parks Department built almost no swimming pools, parks and playgrounds in areas where poor and minority folk lived."QUESTION? Is that a true statement? He built about 300 parks within the City. Were there really that few built in low income and minority areas? I know what you mean about discrimination. I can remember often being discriminated as a child in the 1950's waiting on line in a candy store, watching the clerk bypass me to serve the next adult in line behind me. I also remember going to the movies with and without my parents. With my parents we would sit in the center section. When I would come alone, I would have to sit in the "Children's Section" at the sides of the theater. The rationale was that children paid less and made more noise so they shouldn't disturb the adults. So I could live with that. But what got me angry was when I turned 12, I had to pay the full adult price of 75 Cents and the usher still put me in the Children's Section. Unlike when I was younger in the candy store and too scared to speak up, I questioned the usher telling her I am no longer a child because I paid full price and should be able to sit anywhere I want to, her response was, "outside your an adult, but once you're inside, you are still a child," and she put me in the Children's Section anyway. That was over 45 years ago. Discrimination hurts and is not easily forgotten. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Jul 26 10:42:15 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by American Pig on Thu Jul 26 02:36:07 2007. What part of knowing the Long Island Parkways were designed from the beginning to be limited to automobile access don't you understand? What part of knowing that there are arterial routes roughly parallel to every Long Island Parkway don't you understand? What part of knowing that travel times on those arterials were/are roughly equivalent to the adjacent Parkways don't you understand? And finally, what part of knowing that there was/is completely open access to all the Long Island State Parks to cars and buses once you get to the entrances don't you understand? |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:56:49 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:22:40 2007. I didn't realize we were disagreeing about anything here.I guess the point is what eventually got built in terms of bridges and tunnels is what should have gotten built (with perhaps another tunnel to Jersey around 59 St). But Moses didn't built the Lincoln Tunnel or the Midtown Tunnel. If it were up to him, they probably would have been bridges. Well, I'm not exactly sure of the history of the Lincoln Tunnel, but I know he inherited the Midtown Tunnel and was not there for its conception since he didn't control the Tunnels at the time. And the major objection against the proposed Battery Bridge was the blight caused by its access roads in Lower Manhattan. Interesting to note is when you look at the model for that proposed bridge that Moses had prepared, the access roads appear to be very unobtrusive, so you wonder what all the fuss was about, but when you look at drawings prepared by others, the blight was significant. Also, one of Moses' points for building a bridge was that it would have a greater capacity than a tunnel. Still his ego was the prime reason why he favored bridges. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:58:10 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 10:32:15 2007. But we were talking about peak beach travel days, not the ordinary day commute. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 11:08:55 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 19:27:24 2007. One more point. Pre-Interstate days, you were bombarded by commercial advertising signs every couple of hundred feet on many roads. The Parkways were free of those signs. I was reminded of how bad the advertising once was while driving in the US when I took a cab from Giza to the Suez Canal in 1985. Although the only sight was sand on both sides of the road, we must have passed at least 300 billboards for Coca-Cola and as well as signs for a half dozen other advertisers. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 11:12:09 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 09:35:00 2007. I believe vans only have to have one rear window to not be considered a commercial vehicle. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:21:49 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:39:11 2007. Robert Moses who through his Parks Department built almost no swimming pools, parks and playgrounds in areas where poor and minority folk lived."QUESTION? Is that a true statement? He built about 300 parks within the City. Were there really that few built in low income and minority areas? Actually it is false...Moses built at least 14-16 pools in NYC. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:22:47 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by ntrainride on Thu Jul 26 10:42:15 2007. Not to mention that some years later many expressways were planned and built, some parkways were even converted from parkways to expressways. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:23:35 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 11:08:55 2007. I also used to love the natural looking wooden lights, and the brown signs that used to grace the parkways. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:25:27 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 11:12:09 2007. I am not 100% sure of that either way. I always heard it had to have "windows", and of course can NOT be registered commercially, or even be used commercially while on the parkways. |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Jul 26 12:50:26 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by E Line Fan on Wed Jul 25 14:35:01 2007. I'd go there a few times a month when I worked the AM shift at Hoyt on the A.Their food wasn't too bad either. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jul 26 17:03:54 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 25 18:03:21 2007. There's your cause and effect, and sounds about right. :( |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 19:51:18 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:21:49 2007. I know of the pool in Harlem and Betsy Head Park in Brownsville, although Brownsville wasn't a minority area when the pool was built. There are also pools in Sunset Park, Greenpoint and several more in Manhattan (Lower East Side?). I'm not sure what one would have considered a minority area when most of the pools were built.Unless someone can prove otherwise, I'm going to assume that the statement is false. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 19:57:15 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:23:35 2007. Two wooden lights remain (that I know of) either intentionally or unintentionally. One on the Flatbush Avenue exit westbound of the Belt Parkway and one as you enter the Belt Parkway from the Sunrise also westbound.Stewart Avenue either in Garden City or New Hyde Park also has many of them. Don't know if Moses is responsible for those. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 21:02:21 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 19:57:15 2007. There's also a few along Ocean Parkway too. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 21:03:19 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 21:02:21 2007. Of course I mean Ocean Parkway between the Robert Moses Causeway and Jones Beach...not the one in the city, haha. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 21:08:01 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 19:51:18 2007. Unless someone can prove otherwise, I'm going to assume that the statement is false [about the pools]Here's a link....scroll down to 1960, here's the quote: 1960 Source: http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_history/historic_tour/history_robert_moses_modern.html |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Fri Jul 27 03:12:47 2007, in response to Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 25 14:11:42 2007. And no B54 bus in sight........... |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 03:13:32 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 07:26:29 2007. Those are great pictures BTW! What a difference a few years make. To think that about 15-20 years ago, those building were worth more burnt to the ground then standing. I was never too familiar with that area. I guess there wouldn't have been any reason to since it used to look like 80s Beirut but much more dangerous. Out of town yuppies will never know how good they have it. Today's newcomers may complain for good reason about the crowded (L). In the old days the common complaint was having been mugged on the (LL). |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 03:17:29 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 07:41:26 2007. Same here. When I was a kid I was actually a fan of the New York Nets of the ABA because I worshipped Dr. J. I switched to the Knicks long ago and never looked back. |
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Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 27 07:21:35 2007, in response to Re: Downtown Brooklyn/Fort Greene Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Fri Jul 27 03:12:47 2007. Hahaha, I only saw one my whole trek down from Myrtle-Bway to Downtown! |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jul 27 09:59:19 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 26 10:09:31 2007. The third tube of the Lincoln Tunnel opened in 1957. Originally it had fluorescent lighting while the two original tubes kept their incandescent lighting. Recently, they've done away with the fluorescent lighting in the third tube and installed incandescent lighting to match the other two tubes. About the only thing that didn't change was the tile font at the state line marker. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 13:06:58 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 12:21:49 2007. The Power Broker, by Robert Caro - pg 509-510Robert Moses built 255 neighborhood playgrounds in New York City during the 1930's. The adults and children who attended playground dedication ceremonies cheered when, at the end of the speeches, the fountain showers in the wading pools were turned on. and the cheers were echoed and amplified by the press. "Nothing Robert Moses has done is as great as what he has done with playgrounds," the World Telegram said. "He has bestowed an unqualified boon on the neighborhoods of this city." To dramatize the size of the achievement, Moses gave each playground a number, and the press counted along with him: Playground Number 189 Opens, the headlines said. Playground Number 194 Dedicated ... Playground 204 .... Playground 240... And he had his mapmakers prepare pairs of outline maps of the city, blank except for dots representing playgrounds. The map on the left would be labeled simply "1933," the year before he had become Park Commissioner, the one on the right simply "1937" (or "1938" or "1939"), and the contrast between the two maps was certainly spectacular, the one on the left almost empty, the one on the right covered thickly with dots. And public and press drew from the maps the conclusion that Moses wanted drawn from them: that his playground-building program was an unqualified improvement, an absolutely unalloyed benefit, to all people of New York City. A close inspection of the maps would have revealed some rather puzzling characteristics about the pattern formed by the dots. Their distribution, for example, was not at all even. The areas of the maps on which the dots were clustered most thickly corresponded in the main to those areas inhabited by families that were well-to-do or at least "comfortable". The areas of the maps on which the dots were sprinkled the most thinly corresponded in part to undeveloped outlying areas of the city that did not really need playgrounds, but they corresponded also to some of the city's most congested areas, to the tenements neighborhoods and slums inhabited by families that were poor -- to areas that needed playgrounds most. The areas of the maps on which the dots were sprinkled the most thinly of all corresponded to those areas of the city inhabited by its 400,000 Negroes. Robert Moses built 255 playgrounds in New York City during the 1930's. He built on playground in Harlem. An overspill from Harlem had created Negro ghettos in two other areas of the city: Brooklyn's Stuyvesant Heights, the nucleus of the great slum that would become known as Bedford-Stuyvesant, and South Jamaica. Robert Moses built one playground in Stuyvesant Heights. He built no playgrounds in South Jamaica. [The rest of this section explains how those who noticed the difference in facilities were not listened to, even when the facts were plainly before them.] The Power Broker - Page 513-514 Moses built one pool in Harlem, in Colonial Park at 146th Street and he was determined that that was going to be the only pool that Negroes or Puerto Ricans, which classed with Negroes as "colored people" were going to use. He didn't want them "mixing" with white people in other pools, in part because he was afraid, probably wit cause, that "trouble" - fights and riots - would result; in part because, as one of his aides puts it, "Well, you know RM felt about colored people." The pool at with the danger of mixing was greatest was the one in Thomas Jefferson Park in La Guardia's old East Harlem congressional district. The district was white, but the pool, one block in from the East River, was located between 111th and 114th Streets. Not only was it close to Negro Harlem, but the city's Puerto Rican population, while still small, was already beginning to outgrow the traditional boundaries of "Spanish Harlem" just north of Central Park and to expand toward the east toward the pool. By the mid--Thirties, Puerto Ricans had reached Lexington Avenue, only four blocks away, and some had begun moving onto Third Avenue, only three blocks away. To discourage "colored" people from using the Thomas Jefferson Pool, Moses as he had gone so successfully at Jones Beach, employed only white lifeguards and attendants. But he was afraid that such "flagging" might not be a sufficient determent to mothers and fathers from the teeming Spanish tenements would be aware on a stifling August Sunday that cool water in which their children could play was only a few blocks away. So took another precaution. Corporation Counsel Windels was astonished at its simplicity, "We [Moses and I] were driving around Harlem one afternoon - he was showing me something or other, and I said, "Don't you have this problem with the Negroes over running you? He said, "Well, they don't like cold water and we've found that that helps." And then, Windel's says Moses told him confidentially that while heating plants at the other swimming pools kept the water at a comfortable seventy degrees, at the Thomas Jefferson Pool, the water was left unheated, so that its temperature, while not cold enough to bother white swimmers, would deter any "colored" people who happened to enter it once from returning. [The rest of the page describes how Negro and Puerto Rican residents would travel the distance to the Colonial Park Pool, rather than to use the Thomas Jefferson Park Pool, even if it were closer.] |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 27 15:48:57 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 13:06:58 2007. Yeah, that has a definite spin on it. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 27 16:11:07 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 13:06:58 2007. Amazing..His racist attitude towards knew no bounds. It was Him,and people LIKE HIM that gave my parents a hard time..[even though they were employed by the CITY OF NEW YORK] when they bought their home. The very same thing happened to my Grandparents when they purchased their home on Bushwick avenue in the early 60's...it tok a CONGRESSWOMAN to get the ball rolling on that one..and the funny thing about that was...HE HAD CASH TO PAY FOR HIS HOME. The one thing I loved about the Southern states..they didn't hide their hate. NY was twofaced backstabing sonfoabitches.Smile in your face..stab you in the back AND twist the KNIFE. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 17:13:18 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 27 15:48:57 2007. The should read...Robert Moses built 255 playgrounds in New York City during the 1930's. He built one playground in Harlem. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 17:13:47 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 27 15:48:57 2007. The line should read...Robert Moses built 255 playgrounds in New York City during the 1930's. He built one playground in Harlem. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by Railman718 on Fri Jul 27 17:20:10 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 27 16:11:07 2007. "The one thing I loved about the Southern states..they didn't hide their hate.NY was twofaced backstabing sonfoabitches.Smile in your face..stab you in the back AND twist the KNIFE." To quote a certain person i said this before.. "I have more respect for a persons views".. "Even IF they are Wrong".. "Than Somebody smiling like an Angel but that person is Nothing But a Devil".. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Fri Jul 27 18:28:37 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Railman718 on Fri Jul 27 17:20:10 2007. Mississippi and Sherriff Bull Conner. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 27 20:15:18 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 21:08:01 2007. Thanks. I think the original statement was not only about the pools but the parks and pools. Wow, I thought it was 300 city parks. Looks like it was well over 600 that he built. I bet they were pretty evenly distributed throughout the city. Like to see someone prove otherwise. Don't think they would be able to. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 27 20:32:06 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by Michael549 on Fri Jul 27 13:06:58 2007. That convinces me that he appears to have been a racist when it came to the pools, but it doesn't convince me about the playgrounds.The areas with a light sprinkling of dots were the outlying areas not needing parks (understandable) and the heavily congested areas with tenements. What Caro doesn't mention is the availability of land in those congested areas. Maybe building in those areas would first require demolition, while the other parks were built on vacant land, making it not possible to build more parks in congested areas without incurring huge expenses. Moses was practical also. If he could build five parks elsewhere for the same cost as building one park in a congested area, he would choose the former. Also, the citation only talks about parks built in the 1930s. He built another 300 during the next 30 years. You would have to look at the complete record to come to a definite conclusion either way. |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by E Line Fan on Fri Jul 27 21:21:14 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 27 20:32:06 2007. When one thinks about it, the Harlem neighbourhood is interesting. Harlem borders Central Park and has Marcus Garvey Park (Mount Morris), Jackie Robinson Park (Colonial), Morningside Park, St. Nicholas Park and Thomas Jefferson Park. All of these were in use by the time the I.R.T. reached West 242d Street. Also Inwood has much parkland. Maybe Mr. Moses considered this. Perhaps Bedford and Stuyvesant in Brooklyn (they were two neighbourhoods in Mr. Moses' day) might be a better evaluator. Marcus Garvey Park opened as Mount Morris Square on 1 December 1840 when Harlem was in the "country". |
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Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 27 23:11:02 2007, in response to Re: Brooklyn Dodgers (on topic), posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jul 27 20:32:06 2007. That convinces me that he appears to have been a racist when it came to the pools, but it doesn't convince me about the playgrounds.It;s all the way the aurthor spins it. Why would you add more parks to neighborhoods that already have a lot of parks? The areas with a light sprinkling of dots were the outlying areas not needing parks (understandable) and the heavily congested areas with tenements. What Caro doesn't mention is the availability of land in those congested areas. Maybe building in those areas would first require demolition, while the other parks were built on vacant land, making it not possible to build more parks in congested areas without incurring huge expenses. /////You would have to look at the complete record to come to a definite conclusion either way. Thank you, at least someone can read and understand that there can be a little spin. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Jul 28 00:05:54 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 26 09:42:00 2007. Say what? The "...ACORN school of Social Justice..."? Glad the theatre's been renovated but forgive me if the new tenant doesn't make me feel as confident about the future of Bushwick as I am about Williamsburg (the real place, not Northside). |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Jul 28 00:18:52 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 03:13:32 2007. "In the old days the common complaint was having been mugged on the (LL)."Bull. Why would you say such a thing? Obvious you never were in the area much. I was all around north Brooklyn in the `70's and 80's and a lot of the `90's. The overwhelming majority of the people I knew and knew of never got mugged. Not only that, local folk just thought it normal to go about their business along Broadway, Graham Avenue, Grand Street, whatever. Perfectly fine environments to go shopping and eating out and enjoying yourself. Screw what "newcomers" have to say about it. In a way, I'm kinda sorry to see this "population changeover" going on. I've seen what happened to many Brooklyn neighborhoods when they grow "upscale". Don't make the place friendlier I can tell you that. |
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Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Jul 28 00:21:25 2007, in response to Re: Gates Ave Re: Housing Projects Re: Jane Jacobs Re: Cross Manhattan expressway, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jul 26 09:33:13 2007. I agree. |
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