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| Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? (1384286) | |
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| (1384890) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 8 17:37:26 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 15:33:25 2016. I thought you were referring strictly to the L Line. Bway Jct on the J does have a middle track. |
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| (1384898) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by caine515 on Mon Feb 8 18:51:07 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 16:56:55 2016. But where do u terminate the "T"? |
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| (1384899) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 18:54:48 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by caine515 on Mon Feb 8 18:51:07 2016. The obvious run for the T would be Broadway Jct Queens Blvd.That serves the two river crossings nearest the L with spare capacity: WB and 53rd Street. |
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| (1384900) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 19:12:22 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by caine515 on Mon Feb 8 18:51:07 2016. Either Queens Plaza or 96th & 2nd (if SAS opens before the Canarsie tubes shut down). |
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| (1384901) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 19:15:17 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 19:12:22 2016. For the 17th time, the 53rd street tunnel needs more trains too if the L shuts down. |
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| (1384904) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 20:09:08 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 19:15:17 2016. I never said it didn't. Nothing to get all bent out of shape over. |
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| (1384905) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 20:13:12 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 8 20:09:08 2016. Not bent out of shape. Just pointing out one more time why it makes no sense to run an M supplement to 96th/2nd. |
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| (1384906) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 20:47:30 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by caine515 on Mon Feb 8 18:51:07 2016. This (T) as I would do it (and have noted before) would be to 96th Street and 2nd Avenue (as the (L) closure is not expected to take place until AFTER the SAS opens). This as also previously noted would be a 24/7 line between Metropolitan Avenue and 96th/2nd, replacing the (M) late nights and weekends.As noted, such ALSO gives UES riders direct 6th Avenue local in addition to direct Broadway line service. |
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| (1384907) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 20:52:27 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 19:15:17 2016. The problems with that as noted are Queens Boulevard itself and fumigating at Queens Plaza.As noted, what I would do is send perhaps an additional 1-2 TPH to QP on the (M) to supplement 53rd during peak hours (and if feasible, going to 71-Continental with those) BUT at all times have at 6-7 TPH the "Orange (T)" go to 96th/2nd with that as also noted late nights and weekends replacing the current (M) shuttles (late nights 2-3 TPH, weekends 5-6 TPH with more if warranted). |
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| (1384908) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 21:53:31 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 8 13:23:53 2016. Mike:As also noted, this is dealing with a MAJOR shutdown. The idea is to spread out the pain a bit so it's not concentrated in one area and adding service in the area most affected even if it means another area has to take a hit for a time. There is no good way of doing this and I'm looking at it from the perspective of what is the least amount of overcrowding overall of any one line. There are going to be complaints somewhere, but this is work that obviously is necessary and those riders have to go on another line. The main concern here is minimizing the hit on the (L) while keeping both the (G) as well as the (E) and (M) (at Court Square) from getting overcrowded. If it means some others have to take a hit, it may be necessary because others are going to be affected even if not directly anyway. |
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| (1384911) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Mon Feb 8 23:08:47 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 09:23:33 2016. No, short turning on the main line is asking for trouble. Whitehall has short turns on tracks devoted to short turning, not on the main line. |
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| (1384919) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 9 00:32:01 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 8 15:30:00 2016. Nah.It will either turn on the yard Leeds or the center tracks. |
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| (1384934) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Feb 9 07:37:19 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 9 00:32:01 2016. Leeds... I didn't get it at first, and thought, I don't remember any code name for a yard being "Leeds," what the heck am I missing here?and of course "Leeds" also has the automatic association with the Who's album..... then, 'oh yeah,' yard leads, how'n'the heck could I have missed that? :) |
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| (1384935) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Feb 9 07:38:25 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 09:23:33 2016. They are on the (L) line, but having such should only be used if you have a situation where the (L) is truncated to between Bedford and Broadway Junction for the duration of the tunnel shutdown while a Broadway-Brooklyn line runs out of Canarsie (in this case, either the re-routed (C) train I put together OR a the (K) suggested by someone else).Better would be to re-build Atlantic Avenue on the (L) to four or even six tracks that can be done (as six tracks) with a re-built Snediker Avenue platform used as a terminal or for storage and a four-track setup at Atlantic Avenue used where they can be used in some form as through tracks AND/OR to terminate. That way, you can have a Broadway-Brooklyn line be the through train to Broadway Junction AND the (L) waiting across-the-platform at Atlantic for those looking to go via the regular route to Bedford. |
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| (1384975) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 15:58:04 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 8 15:30:00 2016. Randy, where/how did the Lexington els turn back, when they terminated at Eastern parkway? |
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| (1384977) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:07:17 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 15:58:04 2016. Rush hours went to 111th. |
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| (1384978) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:07:53 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Feb 8 21:53:31 2016. Why not just run a shuttle from Bedford Ave to 8Av/14St on westbound track Q1 and have the esstbound "L" trains from Canarsie terminate on Q2. That way, they could return to Canarsie, using the crossovers just east of Bedford. Yes, it will be crowded with the people who get on at Bedford Ave, but it's better than shutting down both tubes. |
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| (1384979) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:09:43 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:07:53 2016. I suspect they'd rather bite the bullet, shut both tubes, and get this over with as fast as possible. |
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| (1384980) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:13:38 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:07:17 2016. I know that! But how did the Lexington trains return for westbound service, when they terminated at Eastern Parkway? Through Atlantic Ave? |
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| (1384981) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:16:21 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:09:43 2016. Those Bedford Ave hipsters will really be crying in their trustfunds! |
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| (1384983) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:24:09 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Mon Feb 8 20:13:12 2016. Actually, a night "M" terminating at Queens Plaza, via 53rd St, makes a lot of sense. i would hope it would continue that way, even after the "L" resumes full service to Manhattan. By the way, will there be shuttle service on 14th Street, bet: 1st Ave-8th Ave, during these tube closures? I hope so! |
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| (1384986) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 9 16:38:01 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 9 00:32:01 2016. I thought he was talking about the L line which has no center track |
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| (1384987) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 9 16:39:28 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 15:58:04 2016. I Imagine they turned on the Yd leads for DO Yd or when express service didn’t operate, in the middle tk in E/Pky station. |
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| (1384989) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 9 16:43:02 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Feb 9 07:38:25 2016. But if you terminate the trains at Bway Junction, you won't need to build extra tracks at Atlantic Ave. The connection isn't as difficult as the one for the A and C. For storage, you can still use the yard at Rockaway Pky, which isn't that far away. |
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| (1384991) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 9 16:47:06 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:07:53 2016. Yeah, but if the MTA did that then Wallyhorse would be really, really upset that his often repeated idea of rebuilding the Atlantic Avenue station, and re-routing train routes every which way up the ying-yang could not be done! (LOL)Realistically there are several options - from full shut-down and repair, to working on tube at a time, to a series of weekend and weeknight closures for track & tunnel work. Of course each option has different duration of construction work and different time to completion milestones, and offer their own sets of headaches. I still admire him for continuing to come up with different schemes, but some of those schemes can only exist in "Wally-World." Mike |
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| (1384992) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 9 16:47:34 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:07:53 2016. Why not just run a shuttle from Bedford Ave to 8Av/14StRunning time between Bedford and 8th Aves is 9 minutes. Add another minute to reverse direction (recharge brakes) and it's 10 minutes each way. That's 3 tph. |
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| (1384994) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:55:08 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:13:38 2016. I have seen pictures of 3 car el trains on the local track at Eastern Pkwy. They probably had to go to Atlantic Av. |
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| (1384995) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 9 16:55:47 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 9 16:47:34 2016. Wait - there's a crossover between 3rd Ave. and Union Sq. So, if the one-way operation only ran between Union Sq. and Bedford, how would that increase the TPH? |
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| (1384998) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:01:30 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 9 16:55:47 2016. how would that increase the TPH?Slightly. You've got 20 tph of people coming through the 14th street tunnel in the morning rush hour. No solution can possibly accommodate most of them through a single track. Stephen has even proposed 20 trains inbound all in a row followed by pulling them all back out and starting all over. That increases capacity but creates other very ugly crowding problems. |
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| (1384999) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 17:03:29 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 9 16:24:09 2016. As for fumigating, don't. Put the southbound T/O on the back end at Queens Plaza, relay, and come out without the crew walking the train risking attack. |
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| (1385000) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:05:33 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 9 16:47:06 2016. If they need minor rework nights and weekends could be fine.But if the tubes need a gut renovation the only sane thing is to shut them completely for a year and stuff as many extra people as you can over the WB and through the 42nd St and 53rd St tunnels. A single tube closure is going to be as miserable as a full closure, if not worse, and last twice as long. |
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| (1385001) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:07:09 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 17:03:29 2016. Bill from Maspeth brings up the possibility of a passenger pulling the emergency cord while the train is in the relay. |
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| (1385002) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 17:08:41 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:07:09 2016. How long does it take to recover form that ? |
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| (1385003) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:10:32 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 17:08:41 2016. Good question. |
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| (1385015) | |
Re: M Line during L Closure |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:07:01 2016, in response to Re: M Line during L Closure, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 17:08:41 2016. The train must be investigated to find where the cord was pulled. During that process the crew is open to being assaulted. |
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| (1385016) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:09:17 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:01:30 2016. How and where do you stack up 20 trains in Manhattan? |
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| (1385018) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 19:22:37 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:09:17 2016. Well, it's about 5200 feet from 3rd Ave to 8th Ave. |
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| (1385020) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:34:41 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 19:22:37 2016. How long are the passengers supposed to be stuck on trains before they can be bought into a station? In order to flip the direction, you need all those trains to be between USQ and 8th Ave. as you only have 1 track to use till leaving Third Ave. Trains on each track at USQ, 6th and 8th are 6 trains. You can only hold one train in between each station. Therefore I still don't know where he gets 20 trains can be in Manhattan. |
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| (1385023) | |
Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 9 19:48:19 2016, in response to Re: J line extension to Bay Ridge after Second Avenue subway opens?, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:55:08 2016. Yard leads to DO Yd. |
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| (1385027) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 9 20:03:14 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 9 17:05:33 2016. My points are simple ones.Yes, the closure of the L-train 14th Street Tunnel for any lengthy period of time whether it is one tube or both tubes will impact a great deal of people. The MTA is still in the early planning stages of this situation, and few concrete details have been released to the public - other than the issue is being seriously looked at. There have a been a variety of proposed responses to such an L-train service outage. There are debates about which options to choose from, which options offer various benefits or handle the huge amounts of riders in a certain time frame with what resources. There is an honest debate and discussion going on about how to approach this problem - just as it should be. Even those active in the debate are still muddling through the options. I just happen to think that several of Wallyhorse's ideas are simply not work-able as applied to this situation. Mike |
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| (1385041) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 21:31:18 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 9 20:03:14 2016. And the highest levels of NYCT management are looking into helping out displaced customers. They will announce this strategy when it is completed and when the time is close for the work to begin. |
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| (1385048) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 22:12:12 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 21:31:18 2016. Just saw a Daily News link. Work will not start till 2018 at the earliest. |
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| (1385050) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Tue Feb 9 22:31:35 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 21:31:18 2016. Was there a HINT of sarcasm here LOL |
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| (1385054) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 9 22:57:13 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 19:34:41 2016. Go back and find his post. |
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| (1385062) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 23:34:08 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 9 22:57:13 2016. As long as this thread is????? |
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| (1385068) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed Feb 10 01:18:26 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 21:31:18 2016. Agreed.Mike |
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| (1385074) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 06:44:36 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Joe V on Tue Feb 9 16:09:43 2016. Which is EXACTLY why I wrote what I did. |
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| (1385075) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 06:46:54 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 9 16:47:06 2016. Mike:I'm assuming both tubes will be shut down during this. Until we hear otherwise, that is the assumption I'm working under. Even if one tube remains open, you'd STILL have the issue of holding trains all over the place on both ends, which still presents a big problem even if you can still do some Manhattan service. |
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| (1385078) | |
Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) Station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 06:51:38 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie trains via Broadway-Brooklyn during (L) tunnel shutdown, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 9 22:12:12 2016. That at least provides some time if proven true:Perhaps they can use some of that time to seriously look at doing an emergency rebuild of the Atlantic Avenue (L) station to at least four tracks so you can then have the (L) terminate there (letting the (L) better serve the more heavily used portion) and run a line via Broadway-Brooklyn to Manhattan from Canarsie. As said before, enough of the old structure remains that a rebuild could be done at Atlantic Avenue. |
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| (1385081) | |
Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Feb 10 07:12:04 2016, in response to Re: Canarsie Line During (L) Tunnel Shutdown/Atlantic Avenue (L) station, posted by 3-9 on Tue Feb 9 16:43:02 2016. Agreed, but this would be a perfect excuse to re-build the tracks at Atlantic Avenue and the structure is still there from the old days.Such would allow for more long-term operational flexibility and allow for such a Broadway-Brooklyn line to Canarsie to continue even after the (L) tunnel shut down ended while the (L) can better serve the much more heavily traveled portion of the line. |
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