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| Re: Unbuilt Stuff (1169970) | |
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| (1170686) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:02:07 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:01:16 2012. Sorry for the multiple posts but my computer got a bit persnickety. |
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| (1170687) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:05:11 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Aug 4 20:36:32 2012. No. You were talking about the ramp between Atlantic and Nevins which is now covered up by the N/B lcl tk. Gil was talking about the slight widening of the tunnel infrastructure off the N/B lcl tk N/O Nevins. |
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| (1170688) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 5 04:07:00 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:02:07 2012. "persnickety" ... I always loved that word! :) |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1170689) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:07:26 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 4 14:49:55 2012. That's the provision I was talking about for a connection to a proposed 3 Av subway. |
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| (1170690) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:10:31 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Sat Aug 4 18:36:28 2012. The one N/O 57/7 annoys me since the infrastructure is in place to allow both the local and express tracks to connect to 63 St and yet only the express tracks were connected severely limiting flexibility in the event of a service disruption. Yet another example of the cesspool of incompetence that passes for MTA/NYCT planning. |
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| (1170693) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sun Aug 5 05:06:28 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:01:16 2012. Just how many proposed connections to Staten Island WERE THERE??? |
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| (1170705) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 09:01:21 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:01:14 2012. The sealed up 2 track tunnel under owls head park was NOT for the proposed bmt/sirt conn.under the bay.it was for a combo freight & passanger line from jersey connecting from a seperate[but equal] RR[B&O] line NOT connected to sirt.it was designed to conn.into the lirr at 5th.ave,bklyn.A 1930`s plan would have connected it into sirt.the bellmouths at 59st& 4th ave.would have been the original sirt,brt. conn.the brick walls at 59st are false walls.the tunnel extends for apx.30 more feet.on the concrete wall are giant feeder cables.I,ve seen this. |
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| (1170706) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 09:04:11 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by G1Ravage on Sun Aug 5 05:06:28 2012. most likely,4. |
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| (1170726) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Aug 5 10:45:34 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:05:11 2012. Exactly. |
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| (1170749) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by mike cruz on Sun Aug 5 12:50:23 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 09:01:21 2012. Is there any evidence left of the tunnel work or how far it actually went? |
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| (1170759) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 13:14:26 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by mike cruz on Sun Aug 5 12:50:23 2012. which one? |
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| (1170764) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by mike cruz on Sun Aug 5 13:43:07 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 13:14:26 2012. oops, the tunnel under owl head for the freight. |
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| (1170765) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by mike cruz on Sun Aug 5 13:44:19 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 13:14:26 2012. oops, the tunnel under owl head for the freight. |
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| (1170772) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:08:09 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:07:26 2012. A 3rd Ave subway wouldn't have copied what the 3rd Ave el did and gone down Bowery? What streets would it have followed? |
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| (1170776) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:11:52 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 09:04:11 2012. The next priority after the Second Ave subway. Which means, if work starts, it will be the 22nd century. :-) |
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| (1170778) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:24:00 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:10:31 2012. They may not have to carve out another tunnel, but every time I looked, the merge of the local track ROW was not obvious. It looked to me like they would have to cut away some support pillars, at least. |
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| (1170781) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:31:03 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 2 21:16:48 2012. Technically, there was, but I don't think there was a transit newsgroup yet :-). |
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| (1170804) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 16:23:22 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:08:09 2012. It may very well have duplicated most of the 3 Av el with a few slight variations. I suspect that the reason for the proposed connections from the Willy B and also the Manny B which I mentioned in another post were to give the 3 Av corridor a single fare connection to Bkln which the 3 Av El did not provide. |
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| (1170805) | |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 16:25:01 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:24:00 2012. It's possible that by the time you got to see it, that some sort of relay rooms were constructed which would have cut off the original access trackways. |
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| (1170824) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 17:48:12 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 16:25:01 2012. I'm not sure about that. What bothered me was that, when taking a train from 57th/7th to 63rd St, the provision looked half-hearted/half-assed. It literally looked like the provision was not wide enough for 1 trackway, and I didn't see a proper "merge" between the provision and the express track. It's possible that dirt and whatnot obscured things that were added later, but they must have been pretty well camouflaged. |
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| (1170836) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Aug 5 18:51:54 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by mike cruz on Sun Aug 5 13:43:07 2012. no remnenants whatsoever. |
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| (1170848) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Sun Aug 5 19:58:39 2012, in response to Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Wed Aug 1 18:48:52 2012. Just under the low ceiling at the 2nd Ave IND station, towards the north end, there is a vaulted indentation in the ceiling with notched out provisions for station lighting, for stairs leading up to the 2nd Avenue subway station.The proposed stairway was to rise up to a mid level platform, then turn right (North), parallel with the 2nd Avenue line station, and then rise up to the station platform. There is a 45 degree angled ceiling over the northbound F line track that is the underside of the proposed stairway to the 2nd Avenue line northbound platform. |
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| (1170862) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 5 22:07:36 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by HANDBRAKE on Sun Aug 5 19:58:39 2012. And in the late 60s when that was my home station, there were several stairways up to the block long mezzanine that were boarded up. They are gone, but a careful look and you will see them. |
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| (1170887) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Aug 6 00:30:04 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Aug 1 19:59:49 2012. When did he say it was going to be built? |
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| (1170951) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:02:12 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by mike cruz on Fri Aug 3 20:35:00 2012. Well, this was 1958. While NIMBY-ism was new then, opposition to Els was not. The Third Avenue El (Manhattan) had jusrt been torn down, and deomlition of the Fulton St line from Rockaway Ave to Broadway Junction was probably underway at this time.The entusiasm for building a new El, even a one-track job on a commercial street, was probably VERY limited... |
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| (1170952) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:05:14 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 03:43:17 2012. Art Heuncke says that the Mineola didn't run on the LIRR. I hae to argue with someone as knowledgeable about the LIRR as him, but I think it did run there.There's a certain other rumor whose name I'd rather not say that I don't believe. But there are contemporaneous writings that indicate the Mineola ran from Grand Central to Belmont Park- that convinces me. |
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| (1170954) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:06:59 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 5 14:31:03 2012. picky...picky....yeah, I had a strange buddy in high school (1980s) who told me about electronic bulletin boards, but if you'd known this guy, you'd have dismissed him as I did. Turns out he was right, but who'da known... |
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| (1170957) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:18:57 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 5 04:01:16 2012. I believe there was also preliminary construction in St. George. I read that many years ago in the Staten Island Advance, well before there was a public internet... |
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| (1170965) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 6 14:57:15 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:02:12 2012. heck, back then there was agitation to pull down the Loop in Chicago and partially replace it w/subways. |
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| (1170987) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Aug 6 19:04:30 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:05:14 2012. correction,huneke doesn`t say that at all.go to his site & see for yourself.what I find curious is that he doesn`t mention bob emory`s research about the mineola at all.they were close friends.also huneke was a tower operator for the lirr,but he doesn`t mention that in the orignal 1904 lirr tower at flatbush terminal the model board showed 2 track connections into the irt.while this doesn`t prove the tracks were put in he should have mentioned it.yes,I,ve been in the tower before it was taken out & saw the model board & no,I didn`t take any photos of it.I DON`T do photos. |
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| (1170988) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Aug 6 19:06:58 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 6 14:18:57 2012. A shaft was sunk in whats now the vehicle ramp to the ferry.I have not found anything written about it other than that. |
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| (1171066) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Mr RT on Tue Aug 7 07:07:33 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Aug 6 19:04:30 2012. You only do Cupcakes :-) |
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| (1171085) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by mike cruz on Tue Aug 7 09:16:13 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Mr RT on Tue Aug 7 07:07:33 2012. Wonder if they taste like 3rd rail dust? LOL Cause I'm OK wit that! :) |
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| (1171126) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Aug 7 14:56:38 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Aug 6 19:04:30 2012. I'm no good at hyper-linking, so this will have to do:http://www.arrts-arrchives.com/irtconn.html Art seems very skeptical, though not completely disbelieving there was such a connection. Despite his thorough documentation and inside knowledge, I still think the connection did exist and was used. Of course, my life and health do not depend on solving this mystery or winning the debate, LOL. |
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| (1171192) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Aug 7 19:19:38 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Mr RT on Tue Aug 7 07:07:33 2012. I think I,ll show cupcakes your post,grandpaw. |
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| (1171452) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by GIS Man on Thu Aug 9 14:52:52 2012, in response to Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Wed Aug 1 18:48:52 2012. Aren't there also turnouts on the IRT south of Crown Heights-Utica Av? Supposedly there was another plan for a Utica Av. subway which would have been an IRT line. Also, weren't the express tracks intended for a new line (not the New Lots Av. line)?Bob |
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| (1171457) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:22:47 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by GIS Man on Thu Aug 9 14:52:52 2012. "Also, weren't the express tracks intended for a new line (not the New Lots Av. line)?"I assume you mean the relay tracks east (south) of Crown Heights-Utica Avenue, then yes, the relay tracks were intended for a new line. |
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| (1171458) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:24:47 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by GIS Man on Thu Aug 9 14:52:52 2012. Yes...it was the proposed IRT version of a Pitkin Avenue subway to or near the Queens border. |
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| (1171459) | |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:30:13 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:24:47 2012. Really? I thought the relay tracks east of the station was part of an abandoned plan to extend them further into eastern Brooklyn underneath Eastern Parkway and towards Broadway. |
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| (1171460) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:31:16 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:22:47 2012. Another branch to Pitkin Avenue,most likely to Queens[at least that what I read it was suppose to go]..The OTHER proposal was for the line to continue along Eastern Pkwy to Bushwick to the LIRR then along that route to South Brooklyn. And the last was for the line to continue into Queens instead of the LIRR..WHERE was never said. |
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| (1171461) | |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:32:09 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:31:16 2012. Ok, thanx for the info. |
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| (1171466) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:40:41 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 2 15:22:41 2012. The TRIBORO planned for a New Utrecht avenue subway,before the el.The plan was changed due to MONEY...AND wise opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. The 36th st ramps brought the line close to the 38th st yards..the 5th ave El..the Culver line and West End..and another potential line from 10th avenue to Ft Hamilton Pky,then along that road to 86th st. |
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| (1171467) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:41:13 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by GIS Man on Thu Aug 9 14:52:52 2012. You know speaking of the New Lots Ave/Livonia Ave line, east of the New Lots Avenue station there is a never-used trackway structure which continues for about 75 feet. This extension was a provision for the line to continue east on New Lots Avenue. I read somewhere (can't remember) that the line would have turned south on Linwood Street to Flatlands Avenue or Jamaica Bay.Here's a pic of it: 
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Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:42:13 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:40:41 2012. ANOTHER very good piece of interesting info. Thanx! |
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| (1171469) | |
Re: Unbuilt Stuff |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:43:17 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 2 03:56:21 2012. No..thank You..!That was a lot of YOUR TIME invested in writing up that essay..you didnt have to do it. |
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| (1171471) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:45:00 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 2 16:24:07 2012. But there ARE TRACKWAYS THERE..very short on either side of Houston street.. |
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| (1171472) | |
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Posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:50:21 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:43:17 2012. You're Welcome.The late Gordon Thompson, a transportation consultant (he was one of the leads on the 42nd Street project that stupid Giuliani killed) made a detailed map of all the headings and bellmouths and the rest in the NYCTA system and wrote a nice paper on the subject about 20 years ago. I've seen lists various fans created over the years, but Gordon's was really complete -- and had more listings than any I've ever seen. |
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| (1171475) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:53:09 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 2 16:43:41 2012. The space was built to "fit" the SAS Through the station,without tearing it up..a very smart move..which is exactly what FULTON/UTICA AVENUE STATION would have looked like if the UTICA AVENUE SUBWAY provision wasnt built in the roof of the structure.But,Second avenue DOES have two VERY short SAS tunnels on either side of the box tunnel built into it,similar to how EAST BWAY has short Worth Street subway provisions built into it. |
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| (1171477) | |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 15:56:14 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Aug 4 20:45:54 2012. Yeah..it was suppose to travel north into Riverdale..but nothing came of it again until the 50's when the NIMBY'S shot it down along with the GWB line.. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Aug 9 16:05:42 2012, in response to Re: Unbuilt Stuff, posted by renee gil on Thu Aug 9 15:30:13 2012. Bushwick avenue..across the cemetery to some unknown terminal in Queens that was never clear..also to the LIRR in a round about way to southern Brooklyn..similar to what the MTA planned for the L line during the late 60's..Of course Nothing was ever built. |
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