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(1146545)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Mar 25 11:29:19 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Mar 25 11:12:01 2012.

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I'm not sure. He mentions 'Sealed tunnels"

Maybe he knows of something other than Confucius Square.

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(1146548)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Mar 25 11:39:42 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Sat Mar 24 23:14:15 2012.

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please clarify,I don`t remember seeing trackways at grand st.

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(1146551)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Mar 25 11:51:56 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Mar 25 11:06:34 2012.

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It was built for the SAS, sure, but that doesn't really count as part of the Nassau Street loop.

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(1146557)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Mar 25 11:58:35 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Edwards! on Sat Mar 24 23:48:11 2012.

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I hope you're not counting tunnels that were actually carved out as part of previous SAS projects. My definition of a provision, more or less, is an allowance made in a current project for a future, but separate, project. Thus, the swerving and the trackways north of Grand St. count as provisions, but the trackways under Confucius don't count, since they came from an actual aborted SAS project, plus they weren't meant to connect to the Nassau St. loop.

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(1146561)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Mar 25 12:10:38 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Sun Mar 25 11:58:35 2012.

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Is there an original map for the 1967-68 SAS proposed project Top to Bottom.

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(1146583)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Sun Mar 25 13:36:51 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by merrick1 on Thu Mar 22 19:36:53 2012.

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How does the noise compare on that elevated segment today with the concrete roadbed that replaced the ballasted ties of the former pre-rehabilitation of the viaduct RoW?

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(1146584)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Sun Mar 25 13:39:28 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Mar 25 11:39:42 2012.

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If you ever go to Grand Street, look into the tunnel north of the station. The existing tracks swerve away from each other before going up and away to Bway-Lafayette. The space they occupied continues for a few more feet before they reach some equipment sheds and a wall. That's the trackways I'm referring to (NOT behind the platform walls 8-)).


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(1146586)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 25 13:40:11 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 22 05:06:32 2012.

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Forget building any elevated structures in Manhattan! It's not going to happen! Do run the 2nd Ave subway across 125th Street with stations at Lex, Lenox, and st Nick. Continue it north on Morningside and Convent Ave's to a West 135th Street station -right smack in the middle of City College. This would give riders and students access to the west side. Then continue north on Convent Ave with a stop on 145th St and, north of there, tie it into the "A" express or "C" local tracks at 152nd Street/St. Nick. Not only would you have wast side access for riders from the east side, you would also have a connection to the 207th Street yard. That tie in, north of 125th street would put too much traffic in the 125th-145th St's corridor, assuming you mean to tie it into existing tracks A5 and A6!

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(1146587)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by merrick1 on Sun Mar 25 13:42:07 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by HANDBRAKE on Sun Mar 25 13:36:51 2012.

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I think it is quieter but I haven't slept in the neighborhood in 30 something years.

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(1146626)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Gene B. on Sun Mar 25 16:12:16 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by HANDBRAKE on Sun Mar 25 13:36:51 2012.

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I personally lived a half block north of the Sunnyside el on 43rd St. when it was a joint IRT-BMT operation. It was never a facor in our family's activities, sleeping or daytime.

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(1146743)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 25 23:25:47 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Sun Mar 25 09:59:37 2012.

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That would work as long as you can make a connection to the A/B/C/D at St. Nicholas Avenue and provide a connection from the SAS to the 8th Avenue line from there for G.O.'s.

Then, ideally it would be set up to terminate with a transfer to the (1) at 137th Street with the ability for people to cross under the existing (1) station as opposed to now in that regard.

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(1146744)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 25 23:28:17 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 25 13:40:11 2012.

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That's what I meant, using the middle (currently not-in-use) tracks from the six-track layout at 135 to give the SAS access to 8th Avenue (and the Concourse and 207th Street yards) where needed).

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(1146745)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 25 23:31:58 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by JayMan on Sun Mar 25 11:02:14 2012.

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That's why I was originally looking to make that part of the SAS elevated across 125, going across 125 (possibly coming out as elevated at the end of the cut-and-cover segment already in place on 2nd Avenue) as an el there. I would think the trade-off along 125 would be sufficient to have an el all the way across if doing it as subway is not possible due to the fault line.

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(1146781)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Mon Mar 26 08:43:27 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 25 23:25:47 2012.

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I think a better idea would be to build this line to B division specs but as a IRT shuttle.
The reasons for this is that building as an IRT shuttle would allow the full capacity of the SAS to be used in The Bronx. The second reason is that if we are going to connect to 137th St anyway we might as well have full use of the line in case of a GO or other emergency. This also saves the expense of building the connection to the 8th Ave line when we are building a connection to the 1 line anyway. This also provides connection to all three uptown yards.

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(1146805)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Mar 26 11:54:34 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Sun Mar 25 13:39:28 2012.

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I thought tracks separate to avoid existing LOMEX structures.

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(1146881)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 26 20:22:04 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Mar 25 23:28:17 2012.

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Currently, there are 2 expresses (A,D) and 2 locals (B,C) using the 125/145 rail corridor. You are not talking about hooking up another line (from 125 St and 2nd Ave) to that corridor, are you? My way is less stressful. Late nights, it would be ok for non-revenue moves!

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(1147093)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 27 22:32:43 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Mar 26 11:54:34 2012.

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No. The original blueprints (a picture of which I saw once years ago) show that the current B/D tracks were supposed to merge with a future 4-track 2nd Avenue subway before entering Grand Street, much the same way the 6th Ave tracks merge with the 8th Ave tracks just south of 59th St. At the time I thought they ended up not putting the provision in, until I looked carefully out the window of a northbound train and noticed how the tracks diverged.

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(1147157)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Mar 28 10:21:27 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Tue Mar 27 22:32:43 2012.

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I'd like to see those blue prints!

the current B/D tracks were supposed to merge with a future 4-track 2nd Avenue subway before entering Grand Street, much the same way the 6th Ave tracks merge with the 8th Ave tracks just south of 59th St.

Merging from north of Grand St?

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(1147167)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Mar 28 11:01:03 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Wado MP73 on Mon Mar 26 11:54:34 2012.

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lomex is UNDER grand.its a 60x60 concrete box that was filled with sand when the project went belly up.forgive me if the measurements are slightly off.

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(1147190)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Mar 28 15:04:02 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Mar 28 10:21:27 2012.

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I'd like to see those blue prints!
I'd like to see it again too. It was posted either here or on the nycsubway.org forums many years ago. IIRC, it was proposed track diagrams on yellowed paper. I MIGHT have saved the pic, but my subway pics are a disorganized mess.

Merging from north of Grand St?
More precisely, the merge was north of Grand Street. A southbound B or D would do the merge before entering Grand St., for instance.

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(1147196)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Mar 28 16:01:55 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by tunnelrat on Wed Mar 28 11:01:03 2012.

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It's under the northern edge of Broome. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean the tracks separate because of that.



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(1147221)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 28 18:43:31 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Mar 28 16:01:55 2012.

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I lament the failure to build this highway.

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(1147223)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 28 18:50:31 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 28 18:43:31 2012.

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millions for transit, not one cent for highways!

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(1147267)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Mar 28 23:11:23 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 28 18:43:31 2012.

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Considering the neighborhoods that would have been sacrificed for it, I won't shed too many tears.

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(1147272)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 23:49:48 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Mar 28 23:11:23 2012.

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true indeed..
the Bushwick Expressway[part of I78 PROGRAM] was a doomsday plan for north Brooklyn. Cutting a huge swath through neighborhoods from Williamsburg to East New York.

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(1147280)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 00:44:23 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Mar 28 23:11:23 2012.

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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

Sincerely,

Spock-Pig

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(1147281)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 00:45:14 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 23:49:48 2012.

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They still could have built the Lomex without the Bushwick Expressway. Although I support that one too, just not as much.

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(1147282)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 00:46:22 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 28 18:50:31 2012.

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I agree, not one cent but billions of cents! Fewer than for transit but still!

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(1147292)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 29 01:34:48 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 00:45:14 2012.

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both were dead by the mid 70's.
My parents and grand parents were among the protesters for the Bushwick routing,which would have destroyed the left side of the road in [towards Broadway]to the mid block in sections from Eastern Parkway to Myrtle..[some of the roadway would have been depressed to clear the Broadway and Myrtle Els]..then elevated.

While BOTH were good ideas..especially along Bushwick avenue during peak hours..i dont believe it was worth destroying all of those beautifully made homes that line that street AND side streets to the mid block.

Bottom line..there was an alternate route proposed that wasnt undertaken..that SHOULD have been.
Any chances of that happening?

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(1147293)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 29 01:40:11 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 28 18:50:31 2012.

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the last "major expressway" built was 440 in Staten Island..
in Brooklyn..the is a MAJOR NEED for a Cross Brooklyn expressway opposite HWY 27..from the Narrows Bridge to the Interboro,with a branch route via Atlantic ave to the Conduit.

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(1147297)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 02:00:16 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 29 01:34:48 2012.

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There were three options for the Bushwex route. The one along Broadway (the South Route) was not favored. The Middle route, nearer to Ridgewood was favored.

I agree that along Bushwick there are some nice homes with lots of potential.

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(1147300)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 29 02:52:11 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 29 01:40:11 2012.

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No, there is a major need for fewer auto/truck trips.

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(1147302)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 29 03:48:49 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 29 02:52:11 2012.

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Which aren't solved by starving the road network, they're solved by building alternatives.

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(1147304)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 29 05:22:29 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 26 20:22:04 2012.

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It would be mainly for use when needed (if for instance the 6th and/or 8th Avenue lines need to be diverted to the SAS because of a G.O.) and also for SPECIAL trains like for instance a special SAS train to/from Yankee Stadium that would ONLY run on game/event days and only for a certain period of time as an extra (and perhaps would have a special "X" designation for such). Otherwise, it would be strictly for non-revenue moves and emergency situations.

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(1147305)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 29 05:26:15 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Mon Mar 26 08:43:27 2012.

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It would NOT be a connection to 137th Street and the (1). This would be entirely BMT/IND with a terminal at 135th-137th if diverted there in order to have the line stay BMT/IND. There would be a transfer to/from the (1), likely from the south end of the existing 137th Street station that would also allow to cross under between the existing platforms of the (1) station.

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(1147311)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 29 08:21:58 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 29 05:26:15 2012.

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30tph to The Bronx + connection to the 135th St, layup, 207th St yard and the Bronx yard in Riverdale. I think my plan would be best.

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(1147317)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Mar 29 09:35:56 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 29 08:21:58 2012.

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"Bronx yard in Riverdale"? Huh? The Concourse yard is not in Riverdale. Are you suggesting a revival of the plan to extend the A from 207th St. into Riverdale? How far, and where would you put the yard? There is no way such a thing could ever be built.

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(1147318)

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Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St

Posted by Wado MP73 on Thu Mar 29 09:51:31 2012, in response to Re: The Connection Between WTC and Cortlandt St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Mar 28 15:04:02 2012.

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Then I think I pictured it right. Thanks.

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(1147320)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 29 10:02:33 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Mar 29 09:35:56 2012.

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Who said anything about the Concourse Yard?
Re-read the post.

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(1147338)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by J trainloco on Thu Mar 29 12:36:25 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 29 08:21:58 2012.

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You wouldn't need 30tph to the Bronx. Extend one line crosstown and one line to the Bronx. Preferrably the T goes across town, and the Q goes to the Bronx.

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(1147408)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 29 20:01:22 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Mar 29 09:35:56 2012.

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"Bronx yard in Riverdale"? Huh? The Concourse yard is not in Riverdale.

Try to tell that to the people who live around there, to them they live in Riverdale. 8-)

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(1147424)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Mar 29 21:51:44 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by J trainloco on Thu Mar 29 12:36:25 2012.

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The other way around seems more likely, to equalize the line lengths as much as possible. But neither one is going to happen for decades. If it ever comes to pass, it will be our grandchildren riding those lines.

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(1147459)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by chud1 on Fri Mar 30 04:19:40 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 29 20:01:22 2012.

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da #1 train yard is in riverdale and da D and B is in Bedford Park blvd where i grew up as a kid.
tell that to da people in Riverdale.
chud1

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(1147462)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle

Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Mar 30 05:15:30 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street IRT Shuttle, posted by E and F and sometimes J on Thu Mar 29 08:21:58 2012.

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My plan actually has any connection to the 8th Avenue line be mainly for NON-REVENUE moves, as well as for G.O.'s and other emergency situations where 6th and/or 8th Avenue trains need to access the SAS and also for SPECIAL EVENT trains to/from Yankee Stadium on the SAS, which could carry a special "X" designation as an extra train just for such events.

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(1147541)

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Re: SAS Across 110th Street

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 19:04:25 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 22 05:06:32 2012.

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This thread just reminds me of this theme song and the two movies it's from:



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(1147542)

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Re: SAS Across 110th Street

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 19:06:10 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 110th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 19:04:25 2012.

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Let me try that again:



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(1147556)

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Re: SAS Across 110th Street

Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 30 20:06:52 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 110th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 19:04:25 2012.

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Pimps tryin to catch a woman whose weak?

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(1147720)

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Re: SAS Across 125th Street

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 31 15:08:57 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 125th Street, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Mar 29 05:22:29 2012.

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Okay, sounds good to me!

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(1147738)

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Re: SAS Across 110th Street

Posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Mar 31 16:01:12 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 110th Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 30 19:06:10 2012.

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Let me help you out :)





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(1147762)

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Re: SAS Across 110th Street

Posted by chud1 on Sat Mar 31 18:04:26 2012, in response to Re: SAS Across 110th Street, posted by JohnnyMints on Sat Mar 31 16:01:12 2012.

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pam grier a great woman and a great movie.
chud1

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