|
|
| Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? (336120) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 4 |
||
|
| (336561) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 17 11:33:04 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 00:39:51 2008. The great stalker strikes again, |
|
|
| (336565) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:06:38 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 17 11:01:48 2008. Of course it's the "conspiracy theory" as opposed to the fact, that the parkways were built for liesure travel and the rational thought that the stone arch bridges blend in very nice with the "park" enviroment the parkways were meant to be. It just couldn't "possibly" be that the arch bridges were built that way to be visually appealing. |
|
|
| (336566) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:09:35 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 11:21:19 2008. Well if the bridges give a HIGHER number (to allow for error), meaning that 12 feet really means let's say "12.3" feet or something to that effect, why would the measuring be necessary? If your bus is 10 feet tall and all the bridges say 11 feet or more (meaning a few inches even higher than posted), why the "measuring tape" necessary? Just a quick drive (in a smaller vehicle) down the parkway noting the clearance amounts is all you need.... |
|
|
| (336567) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:11:07 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 10:39:55 2008. Oh please. You know exactly what I meant. Now you are just nitpicking. |
|
|
| (336568) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:13:27 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Jul 17 09:44:10 2008. As speculated, no, at the time of the design and building of most of the parkways, such vehicles weren't even imagined. People can't take today's knowledge and experience and try and apply that to a different era. But that being said, the LIE (I assume the interestate you mean) is still very necessary. The Southern and Northern parkways, even if built to current interestate standards, still couldn't absorb all the traffic the LIE carries. |
|
|
| (336589) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 12:34:44 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:11:07 2008. Now you are just nitpicking.No, I'm not. This is a major effect. In most major cities in the northern hemisphere the slums are on the east side of the city (think Lower East Side, East London). Why? Because the wind from the west blew the coal smoke that way. So in fact allowing trucks on the FDR (which I agree is a bad idea because the lanes are too narrow) truly would improve air quality in East Harlem. |
|
|
| (336593) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 17 12:36:34 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 05:12:08 2008. Not to mention strait, the FDR curves quite a bit and some segments are too shallow to allow a tall truck. |
|
|
| (336619) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 17 13:32:49 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Jul 16 17:07:20 2008. I remember that stop well as the blond female trooper was one of the most beautiful cops I've ever seen.Your post reminds me of her :) (Yes, she wasn't a real cop, just played one on tv) :) |
|
|
| (336627) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Jul 17 14:29:29 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 11:21:19 2008. She found that most of them were several inches higher than the sign stated (which is not surprising).From the 2003 MUTCD: "The actual clearance should be shown on the Low Clearance sign to the nearest 25 mm (1 in) not exceeding the actual clearance. However, in areas that experience changes in temperature causing frost action, a reduction, not exceeding 75 mm (3 in), should be used for this condition." |
|
|
| (336631) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 17 14:38:08 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Jul 16 23:04:02 2008. Don't bother responding to the antipathic troll. |
|
|
| (336634) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Forest Glen on Thu Jul 17 14:39:34 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 05:14:06 2008. Ah, the wise words of a butt kisser. |
|
|
| (336642) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 17 15:02:37 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jul 16 23:32:47 2008. Nope you're wrong. |
|
|
| (336643) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 17 15:05:03 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 05:14:06 2008. He hangs out with you |
|
|
| (336649) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Jul 17 16:14:51 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Jul 17 15:05:03 2008. lol |
|
|
| (336661) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jul 17 17:15:17 2008, in response to Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 14:18:59 2008. it's a free country |
|
|
| (336670) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Jul 17 17:43:58 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jul 17 08:48:49 2008. I've always found it to be nice. |
|
|
| (336682) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 17 18:37:04 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:06:38 2008. I'm not stating an opinion either way. I was just repeating what I remember Caro writing. Yes, they could have been built that way just to be visually appealing. But for a little more money they also could have kept the arch but be built a little higher or have had less of an arch. Whether Caro is right or not is certainly open to debate as we have many times before. You said you didn't ant to get into another one so I won't. |
|
|
| (336687) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 18:46:24 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 12:34:44 2008. I never knew that, fascinating. |
|
|
| (336688) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 18:48:27 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 17 12:36:34 2008. Yes, and more traffic would be generated by having to detour inland from time to time than simply staying on 1st/2nd all the way. |
|
|
| (336690) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:03:59 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Jul 16 19:16:07 2008. exactly |
|
|
| (336691) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:04:16 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Jul 17 17:43:58 2008. Thanks Jeff. |
|
|
| (336692) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:04:46 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jul 17 08:48:49 2008. To be perfect in your eyes is not really that nice. It would make me feel dirty. |
|
|
| (336693) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:05:28 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Jul 17 08:48:49 2008. I note that you can't yet admit that you were wrong. |
|
|
| (336694) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:06:48 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by AlM on Thu Jul 17 12:34:44 2008. Cool. |
|
|
| (336696) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:10:47 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 12:11:07 2008. No. Air Quality analysis is serious business. Just pick up any EIS. |
|
|
| (336698) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 17 19:22:31 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 17 18:48:27 2008. Yup. And northbound there's the segment from 34th to like 96th [I think, haven't been on that road in months] where there are no exits. So the truck will have to drive on the local streets anyway. |
|
|
| (336706) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by monorail on Thu Jul 17 19:59:39 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jul 17 19:04:46 2008. 'It would make me feel dirty.'make him look perfect in your eyes! he'll then 'feel' as he looks..... |
|
|
| (336707) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Jul 17 20:00:39 2008, in response to Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 14:18:59 2008. I've always seen buses on parkways but within certain sections. Seen them on the Belt between Cropsey Ave and the BQE/Gowanus merge, the Grand Central between the Triboro and LGA but I never thought a bus could navigate the Jackie Robinson-nee the Interboro because of the sharp curves and narrow roadway, especially in the Cypress Hill/Evergreen vicinity. Only once I saw a bus on the Palisades Pkwy which I found odd. Westcode44 made a good point about parkways that happen to be very true, especially when refering to the Merritt Pkwy. He always said that because of fewer lanes, one accident can actually blow up a parkway for miles, end to end even and Interstates are usually the way to go. I saw another post regarding someone seeing a bus on the Taconic and all I can say is that bus driver would have been nutz to take on that road with a bus. When traveling Upstate on fishing trips, I-684 was our run even though it took us 18 miles from the Hudson. Nowadays we use the Taconic but I always felt safer on 684. Some sections and turn-offs on the Taconic are too narrow and sharp for my comfort.Vader |
|
|
| (336715) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Jul 17 20:40:20 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 15:15:02 2008. The conspiracy theory is that RM built the bridges low to not have buses able to pass.It's not much of a conspiracy because Moses' right hand man freely admitted the design of the bridges was done in such a way as to limit their use by buses. "The building of the bridges is an example of his foresight and vision," Sid Shapiro says in his quiet way. "I've often been astonished myself that he was so right in those days, and not only so right, but so indispensably right. Mr. Moses had an instinctive feeling that someday politicians would try to put buses on the parkways, and that would break down the whole parkway concept - and he used to say to us fellows, 'Let's design the bridges so the clearance is alright for passenger cars but not for anything else.' All the original bridges were designed with nine feet of clearance at the curb. Later he went up to eleven feet, but that had the same effect. Well yes, buses could use the center lane, but that's an impractical thing. No bus would do that. Mr. Moses did this because he knew that something might happen after he was dead and gone. He wrote legislation [clauses prohibiting the use of parkways by "buses and other commercial vehicles"] but he knew you could change the legislation. You can't change a bridge after it's up. And the result of this is that a bus from New York couldn't use the parkways if we wanted it to." A quiet smile broke across Shapiro's seamed face, and he almost laughed as a pleasant recollection crossed his mind. "You know," he said, "we've had cases where buses mistakenly got on a parkways - we had this on the Grand Central Parkway several times, I remember - buses from a foreign state, I suppose, and the first bridge stopped them dead. One had the roof rolled up like the top of a sardine can."This is from page 952 of 'The Power Broker' and is an interview from Mr. Sid Shapiro, who eventually took over the Long Island Park Commission job when Moses was finally forced from his positions. |
|
|
| (336720) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Jul 17 20:49:42 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 15:20:03 2008. Except that the Wilcox Footbridge was built in 1911, far before anyone could foresee highway traffic above 9 feet tall, and decidedly unlike Moses' malicious segregation through his parkways. |
|
|
| (336723) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 21:20:37 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jul 17 18:37:04 2008. Nah, it's all been discussed before of course....I really only posted it because I was really curious when I saw this full sized school bus traverse the length of the JR Parkway. Now that it's obvious that they CAN traverse it physically, I am wondering if it was legal or not. |
|
|
| (336724) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 21:28:07 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by WillD on Thu Jul 17 20:49:42 2008. Yes, RM was "so visionary" that in the 1920's and 30's when the parkways were planned and built, he was able to foresee what buses would become in the 1950's. |
|
|
| (336725) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 21:34:27 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Lord Vader on Thu Jul 17 20:00:39 2008. I wish i remember where I saw the full bus on the Grand Central (or was it the Northern State). It was somewhere between the JR interchange, and the Meadowbrook. I wasn't behind it like I was with the one on the JR Parkway, I just passed the other one, so don't know how long or far it was on the road.What's interesting about the JR parkway is that this bridge had no problem at all with the clearances. The bridges are higher than I thought on the JR parkway. I was behind it the whole time (well for one is that in some areas I couldn't pass it if I wanted to). But only on the Kew Gardens stretch did it really deliberately take up both lanes (although through Cypress Hills too). But at Kew Gardens it just started after the Metro Ave exit to drive in the middle of the two lanes, and stayed that way through the "subway" tunnel by Queens Blvd, and then it exited onto the Grand Central West (and I went east). |
|
|
| (336732) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by R42 4787 on Thu Jul 17 21:41:49 2008, in response to Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 14:18:59 2008. In NJ, buses are allowed on the GSP for the full length-all 173 miles. |
|
|
| (336753) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Jul 17 23:09:08 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jul 17 21:28:07 2008. So you're saying that the direct interview of Robert Moses' second in command is incorrect? I know you're a fan of revisionist history when it comes to this issue, but buses were 10 feet tall in the 1930s and as Mr. Shapiro clearly stated Moses knew exactly what he was doing. |
|
|
| (336789) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 00:27:35 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by WillD on Thu Jul 17 23:09:08 2008. It's a conspiracy theory in a biased book against Moses. |
|
|
| (336793) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 00:34:06 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 00:27:35 2008. And by the way, even though obviously a modern school bus (which is probably bigger than 1930's buses, or at least close) CAN physically fit through the JR Parkway, one of the least improved parkways in the system, the "conspriacy theory" is not whether buses were wanted on the parkways or not, the "conspircacy theory" is that Moses did it so that Blacks or City people couldn't use the parkways. |
|
|
| (336817) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 18 01:05:18 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Grand concourse on Thu Jul 17 19:22:31 2008. 61-96 |
|
|
| (336821) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 18 01:09:50 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 00:27:35 2008. A conspiracy theory by HIS OWN RIGHT-HAND MAN? |
|
|
| (336822) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 18 01:10:27 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 00:34:06 2008. IAWTP |
|
|
| (336827) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 01:15:55 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 18 01:09:50 2008. I phrased it wrong. My mistake. The conspiracy theory is not whether buses (and trucks technically) were wanted on the parkways or not, the conspiracy theory is that the bridges were not done because they were to be roads of leisure and no commercial traffic, but the claim (which I don't believe) is that the bridges were made low specifically to ban city people, specifically Blacks from using the parkways to the beach. |
|
|
| (336828) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Jul 18 01:16:27 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 18 01:05:18 2008. Ok, thanks. I forgot there was one there [left lane exit]. |
|
|
| (336835) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 18 01:24:40 2008, in response to Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 14:18:59 2008. Always been buses on the GSP that I am aware of. NJ Transit always ran express buses on all parts of the GSP. (There's even a portion of the GSP that permits trucks.) |
|
|
| (336836) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 18 01:25:42 2008, in response to Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 16 14:18:59 2008. Always been buses on the GSP that I have been aware of. NJ Transit always ran express buses on all parts of the GSP.* (There's even a portion of the GSP that permits trucks.)* That is, they can. |
|
|
| (336837) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jul 18 01:28:48 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 18 01:25:42 2008. The GSP isn't a Robert Moses parkway, though. |
|
|
| (336839) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 18 01:37:16 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Jul 18 01:28:48 2008. Very true. Maybe we gotta alter the title to reflect that.Although the JFK-EWR minibus (Princeton Airporter) always did use the Belt Parkway. |
|
|
| (336846) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Jul 18 05:30:28 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 01:15:55 2008. Why is it so hard to believe that there is a possibility that Robert Moses could have been prejudiced? As biased against RM as Caro might have been he did extensive research for the book and did not make up things out of thin air. Remember times were different then. There was legal segregation in half the nation and de-facto segregation in the rest. If you look at the original Levittown deeds you will notice that Levitt put a clause in them forbidding them to resell to blacks. |
|
|
| (336849) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 18 05:42:11 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Jul 18 05:30:28 2008. I think you're on the right track, Jeff. It's not that Robert Moses stands out as some lone voice in that way of thinking but was just doing what everyone did at the time. As an example many, many beachfront communities in southern CT and RI at that time precluded sale to anyone but WASPs in their original deeds. Moses may have just used the tools at his disposal, ie roadway design criteria, to preclude access to those who were deemed undesirable at the time. It's entirely possible and plausible, given the time period we're talking about.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (336878) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 07:50:51 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jul 18 01:24:40 2008. I didn't know that. I was always under the impression that the "bridges were built too low (purposely) to allow that". |
|
|
| (336880) | |
Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways? |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 18 07:52:28 2008, in response to Re: Since when are buses allowed on the Parkways?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Jul 18 05:30:28 2008. Why is it so hard to believe that there is a possibility that Robert Moses could have been prejudiced?I neaver said RM wasn't prejudiced. |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 4 |
||
