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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 06:05:20 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 05:11:04 2019.

Like when I went to the SubChat Deli Summit with CMM and MTK.

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(334471)

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by pragmatist on Fri May 24 07:01:33 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 03:48:17 2019.

Many of the same people who don't read or observe any other signs or markings while driving. One of the reasons for this endless thread. Actually the city has some pretty good online resources all the way down to a block by block map of traffic signs. There are always exceptions to the general rules like a few areas with later meters in Manhattan that take over after commercial parking ends.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 24 08:58:57 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 05:07:18 2019.

12 hours of parking us at least $30. And don't forget about the 18 percent tax.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:31:01 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 24 08:58:57 2019.

Well, 30 + tax is less than 48. And you don't have to keep on feeding the meter.


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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:31:50 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by pragmatist on Fri May 24 07:01:33 2019.

The people I am referring to won't use any of those because they don't drive.


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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri May 24 09:35:56 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by pragmatist on Fri May 24 07:01:33 2019.

What are the earliest and latest metered times? I know there are some that go to Midnight, and I think I've seen 6a.m. in some spots (after, for example, a 5:30a.m. to 6a.m. ASP session).

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 24 10:46:11 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:31:01 2019.

Feeding the meter is illegal.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 16:01:43 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri May 24 10:46:11 2019.

All the more reason for a garage being a better deal if you need 12 hours of parking.



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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:41:33 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 23 11:29:08 2019.

It's all right here.

"If you drive you would know that and how ridiculous that law is."

I get that you don't oppose the 30 MPH speed limit, but you oppose the 25 MPH speed limit despite the benefits to implementing it. I didn't put any words in your mouth, period. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend your own statements.

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(334487)

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:43:18 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 23 11:14:12 2019.

I think we've established my limited experience was less applicable than I thought. I still stand by most of what I've said in response to BrooklynBus.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:49:55 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 23 12:06:56 2019.

You won't miss your bus if you adapt to the changed conditions. Your complaint seems to be unique. For someone who claims I only care about theory rather than actual conditions, you seem quite unaware of what actually happens when bus stops are discontinued.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Mon May 27 05:58:09 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:49:55 2019.

Speaking as the husband of a partially disabled person, however, I assure you that there is a lot to be said in favor of more frequent bus stops too. There is no ideal answer.



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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:00:38 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:49:55 2019.

My complaint is not unique at all. Sure some stops can be eliminated with little negative impact, but there should not be a general rule that makes the system less accessible just to save money.

And to not miss the bus by adapting to changing conditions, bus time always has to work perfectly or buses always have to be on schedule, neither of which is reality.

So yes, you are only interested in theory not actual conditions. You refuse to believe that SBS generally just doesnít work and is a waste of money. New 2018 ridership is now out for NYCT. The three Brooklyn routes are all failures with paid ridership declines for the B44 and and B46 which have SBS down by 7 percent and 7.7 percent respectively, which is greater than the average borough decline of 6.4 percent. Only the B82 performed slightly better than the borough average with a loss of 5.3 percent.

Is it any wonder that after almost three years no performance report was ever issued for the B46 SBS?

So I am quite aware of actual conditions, You are the one who is living in a state of fantasy.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:00:38 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:49:55 2019.

My complaint is not unique at all. Sure some stops can be eliminated with little negative impact, but there should not be a general rule that makes the system less accessible just to save money.

And to not miss the bus by adapting to changing conditions, bus time always has to work perfectly or buses always have to be on schedule, neither of which is reality.

So yes, you are only interested in theory not actual conditions. You refuse to believe that SBS generally just doesnít work and is a waste of money. New 2018 ridership is now out for NYCT. The three Brooklyn routes are all failures with paid ridership declines for the B44 and and B46 which have SBS down by 7 percent and 7.7 percent respectively, which is greater than the average borough decline of 6.4 percent. Only the B82 performed slightly better than the borough average with a loss of 5.3 percent.

Is it any wonder that after almost three years no performance report was ever issued for the B46 SBS?

So I am quite aware of actual conditions, You are the one who is living in a state of fantasy.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:10:53 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by pragmatist on Thu May 23 16:23:14 2019.

Not always. I was on 31 Street near Ditmars Blvd on Saturday. Two spaces said No Parking Monday through Friday. The spaces looked perfectly legal until you looked for another sign 50 feet away that said those spaces were metered and therefore in effect on Saturday. So I thought that the meter regulation that should have been on that pole was just missing. So while waiting there for my friend, I checked the signs across the street and the same situation existed. Two spaces which said No Parking Monday through Friday and a meter regulation on another pole 50 feet away!

The likelihood that two meter signs were missing is very slight. So most likely, those were the way the signs were installed. Now if a sign does not show a meter regulation in effect, why would you look for another one on another pole a short distance away? Totally ridiculous. Either sloppiness, or intentional.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:17:08 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun May 26 18:41:33 2019.

There are no benefits to a default 25 mph speed limit especially for arterial roads when there are no highways in the area and you must drive ten miles on those roads with a 25 mph speed limit and a realistic average speed of 9 to 12 mph due to unsynchronized signals. Local trips of ten miles should not take over an hour by car and even longer by bus.

And your link does not work.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 28 06:45:50 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:10:53 2019.

I always look in both directions.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 28 06:53:45 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:17:08 2019.

You can fix the url. But donít bother because itís just a link to one of your posts where you explain why the 25 MPH speed limit doesnít work. But he ignores that and doesnít list the benefits he claims there are (I admit there are benefits). IMO, 25 or even 20 should be the speed limit for narrow side streets. People might respect it more if the speed limit for arterials were 30 or 35.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Tue May 28 07:15:17 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 04:10:53 2019.

I would believe sloppiness. Most of the time there are signs at both ends of the metered parking stretch. If it were deliberate one would expect more consistency of only one sign.


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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 28 09:27:07 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 28 06:53:45 2019.

Actually there are some streets where 15 is appropriate. When I was on Summit street, I didn't feel safe going more than 10 mph because the lane was so narrow with all the parked cars.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 28 20:48:47 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 28 06:53:45 2019.

It's stupid that people seem to need a speed limit sign to tell them how fast to go.

There's sidestreets here in Albany (default 30MPH) where going more than 20 is a terrible idea... so no one does, except at night when it's not such a terrible idea.

There's also unposted state roads (default 55) where if you go that speed, you will careen off a cliff and never be seen or heard from again.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 29 03:47:20 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 28 20:48:47 2019.

One reason the speed limits are needed is to set an appropriate yellow phase on the traffic signals. If there's no speed limit they could make the yellow as short as they want and drivers may not have an opportunity to stop, unless they are expected to approach the green at crawling speed.

Anyway, technically a speed limit is just that - a limit. You are always expected to drive at a safe speed and the sign is basically just saying that according to someone, that speed will never be higher than x.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Wed May 29 05:06:56 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 28 20:48:47 2019.

There's also unposted state roads (default 55) where if you go that speed, you will careen off a cliff and never be seen or heard from again.

I once witnessed a motorcyclist being chased by the police go 55 on a county road where it had a sharp turn, not so obvious because it was also a steep uphill.

He went off the road into the bushes, and amazingly was uninjured.


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(334512)

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed May 29 06:50:54 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 29 03:47:20 2019.

One reason the speed limits are needed is to set an appropriate yellow phase on the traffic signals.

Whether there is a posted speed limit or not, vehicles are still traveling a measurable speed that can be used to set traffic signal clearance intervals.

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(334513)

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 29 07:19:58 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 29 03:47:20 2019.

The Federal Highway Administration's Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices provides guidance that the yellow interval be between three and six seconds without tying the requirement to specific approach velocities. That said, anything falling below the yellow times shown here should be considered as a potential short yellow light.

25 MPH -- 3.0 Seconds
30 MPH -- 3.5 Seconds
35 MPH -- 4.0 Seconds
40 MPH -- 4.5 Seconds
45 MPH -- 5.0 Seconds
50 MPH -- 5.5 Seconds
55 MPH -- 6.0 Seconds


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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 29 07:41:34 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 29 03:47:20 2019.

By that logic, there is no need for speed limits on highways without lights. Not just controlled access, but country roads with no lights for long distances.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 29 10:26:56 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 29 07:19:58 2019.

Here's the basis for this from NCHRP REPORT 731

Y = t + V/(2a + 2Gg) Equation 2
Where:
Y = yellow interval (s);
t = reaction time (typically 1 s);
V = design speed (ft/s);
a = deceleration rate (typically 10 ft/s 2 );
G = acceleration due to gravity (32.2 ft/s 2 ); and
g = grade of approach (percent / 100, downhill is negative
grade).

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 29 10:29:40 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed May 29 03:47:20 2019.

One reason the speed limits are needed is to set an appropriate yellow phase on the traffic signals.

The red clearance phase (both directions red) duration is inversely proportional to the approach velocity.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 29 13:27:21 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Tue May 28 07:15:17 2019.

This was an unusual case. There are signs at both ends of the metered parking stretch. Except that there are two spaces within that stretch where parking is not allowed Monday thru Friday from like 8AM to 6 PM because the sidewalk widens at that point. . Since Sunday is free that means you have to pay on Saturday. But the poles that say No Parking Monday thru Friday say nothing about any meter regulations and since there are no more meters, only muni meters sparsely spaced, it's not obvious meter regulations are in effect unless you look around to check other poles. But there should be no reason to do that if the sign that is there is telling you the regulations in the direction you are interested in.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 29 13:28:13 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 28 06:45:50 2019.

It wasn't a question of looking in both directions. See my response to AIM below.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 29 19:13:52 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 29 13:27:21 2019.

That is an interesting case.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 30 02:50:03 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 16:01:43 2019.

Not if the 12 hours cost you $30 or $40.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 30 04:02:32 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 29 10:26:56 2019.

Cool!

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 30 04:05:08 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 29 10:29:40 2019.

Does that mean that a 55 MPH limit (in all directions) results in a shorter clearance phase than a 40 MPH limit (in all directions)?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Thu May 30 04:33:51 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 30 02:50:03 2019.

Um, I was discussing the significant array of places where the cost of a meter is $4 per hour.

I'd certainly rather pay a garage $30 + tax for 12 hours.




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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu May 30 05:07:45 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 30 04:05:08 2019.

Does that mean that a 55 MPH limit (in all directions) results in a shorter clearance phase than a 40 MPH limit (in all directions)?

Assuming the intersecting street is the same width, yes.

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