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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:37:00 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon May 13 03:01:16 2019.

You shouldn't need a shapes.txt file to figure out stop locations relative to other places, unless I don't understand what it is you are trying to demonstrate.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:47:48 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 13 08:53:42 2019.

I've passed driving licensing exams in multiple countries, and have to adapt to the laws and regulations of the country where I am driving at any given time. I also am a pedestrian, transit user, and cyclist. Perhaps my multiple vantage points give me perspectives you lack. To claim I don't drive is utter bullshit.

NYC is a unique driving environment. Considering the layout of the city, it seems reasonable to have laws in place such as 25 (or 30) MPH speed limit unless otherwise posted. Are you seriously going to have speed limit signs on every block in Manhattan to allow for variable speed limits? It is a lot easier to know I'm in NYC and therefore x y and z rules apply, whereas they are no longer in effect once I'm beyond city limits.

I'm in favor of fencing to prevent midblock crossings where appropriate. Has it occurred to you that pedestrians could still be struck at intersections? What does the fencing do to prevent those collisions?

How do you feel about HAWK signals for lesser used pedestrian crossings? Or are those unnecessary too?

Jurisdictions replace signals with traffic circles because traffic circles have the perception of being more dangerous, so people pay more attention and are more cautious when driving through them. I suggest you read Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do (and What It Says About Us) if you haven't done so already.

You should also read The High Cost of Free Parking to understand my comments about parking policy on a general level. NYC may be an exception in some regards to the theories and ideas laid out in that book, but in other ways NYC parking policies create the same sort of congestion identical policies in other locales experience.

When free parking is required for various building uses, rents increase as the cost of parking is bundled in to the rent. Again, if you read Don Shoup's writing on the topic, you'll get the full explanation.



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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:48:08 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 09:15:46 2019.

How do you feel about HAWK signals?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Mon May 13 20:37:49 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:47:48 2019.

Where does "free" parking exist in NYC?

Most on-street-parking is accompanied by the high labor cost of having to move the car and sit in it during ordinary business hours while the street is being cleaned.

I would agree that an apartment complex that has free parking for tenants probably charges higher rents than a neighboring complex that does not have free parking for tenants. But the former are relatively rare in NYC.




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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Mon May 13 20:41:50 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:48:08 2019.

There really had better not be many pedestrians using them, and/or they can't be too densely spaced. If you have them every tenth of a mile or so and they are heavily used, you just end up with a mess of unsynchronized signals.

In other words, of minimal usefulness in NYC.


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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 14 03:35:58 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:37:00 2019.

What I'm trying to figure out is the spacing between stops along the bus route. At the very least, I need to know the number of stops (I get that from stop_times.txt file) and the route length, for which I need from the shapes.txt file.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 05:41:13 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 16:02:21 2019.

Don't understand your question.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Allen45 on Tue May 14 06:00:55 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon May 13 13:53:22 2019.

Cuomo extended the hours to 10 PM not 9 PM.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 06:07:46 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:36:25 2019.

I once got a ticket for doing 36 mph. It happened after I was doing 10 to 15 mph for 15 blocks because of traffic. Then without explanation all the traffic disappeared, so naturally I speeded up. Couldn't see a school and didn't notice any signs. The school was on the other side of the block and I was passing by the playground of the school I guess. I think the photo showed the words school zone painted on street. There were no people around. I never drove on that block again and will continue to avoid it. Maybe that was why the there were no cars on that block. Maybe everyone else is doing the same thing, avoiding that block.

And it would be nice if you actually read what I wrote. I said 29 mph is the highest legal speed where you won't get a camera ticket. You will get one going 30. It used to be 36. You will be getting four mph leeway.

But that doesn't prevent a policeman from ticketing you by going lower. I know someone who got a ticket doing 26 in a 25 mph zone. They don't have to allow any grace like the cameras do. She told me she is so afraid of getting a second ticket because you will get your license suspended, that now she always drives at 25 or less, and everyone is blowing their horn, but she doesn't care about them. Is this the future for everyone?

I was once driving on Ocean Parkway cruising allowing at about 25 mph because that was what traffic allowed. Then all of a sudden, it slowed down to 19 mph. Then I saw the reason why. There was a cop with a radar gun on the side of the road, so everyone slowed down not to get a ticket until they passed him and then speeded up again.so tell me what he accomplished other than causing more congestion and people to lose time.

As far as statistics, I have seen so much lying with statistics, that without seeing the raw numbers, I won't believe them. There is so much manipulation just to prove the points they want to prove. It was irresponsible to make a half dozen changes along Queens Blvd and then publicly state there were fewer deaths and injuries because of the lower speed limit of 25 mph one year after the commissioner stated that her engineers believe that 30 mph was the proper speed for Queens Blvd. So why did she overrule the engineers by lowering the speed limit? It's because she was ordered to by her boss, Mayor de Blasio.

I know someone who got a ticket in Nassau County right after getting off the LIE. He new a school zone was coming up, not because he saw a sign, so he made sure to slow down to 25 mph. He got a camera ticket anyway because the limit was 15 or 20. AND HE WAS A COP AND HAD TO PAY IT. Now tell me again that the primary purpose of these cameras is not TO RAISE REVENUE.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by JerBear on Tue May 14 07:00:02 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Mon May 13 20:37:49 2019.

That's the joke, and why "free" is juxtaposed with cost. In actuality, no parking is free. It gets paid for in higher rents and higher prices for consumer goods and services.
But Shoup's point is not that parking must be priced but that it must be priced to intentionally affect behavior of the people, instead of accidently and clumsily affecting behavior while pretending to be laissez-faire and libertarian about parking. In reality there is not a free market and parking is highly controlled, but in a haphazard manner. He wants cities to get intentional and monitor and adjust to ensure open spaces on each block by manipulating the price. Not manipulating the price to get a windfall (in fact he wants all revenue pumped immediately back into the neighborhood from whence it sprung), but to affect the behavior of drivers and parkers. Same as congestion pricing: getting money from it is secondary to the desire to change the behavior of massive amounts of people.
There just don't seem to be many scalable methods for adjusting behavior. We seem to assume they are all either policy decisions by government, or disruptive start-ups like Tesla and Uber. Is that true? I don't know. But I haven't heard any other valid methods for mass behavior adjustment.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 14 07:01:17 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 06:07:46 2019.

so naturally I speeded up. Couldn't see a school and didn't notice any signs. The school was on the other side of the block and I was passing by the playground of the school I guess.

You just gave a sound reason for lower speeds. One's field of vision decreases with increasing speed. That's why you guessed and did not "see" it.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue May 14 07:24:03 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:48:08 2019.

How do you feel about HAWK signals?

I think it wasn't the best idea to use the same indication for "proceed if the pedestrian finished crossing" and "proceed and you'll be hit by a train."

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 14 09:12:36 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 05:41:13 2019.

What reports mentioned that the cameras will photograph at lower speeds?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 14 11:10:37 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 05:41:13 2019.

Where did you determine that the speeding threshold will be lowered? The new statute does not amend the portion of the law specifying a ten mile threshold.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 11:21:33 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 14 11:10:37 2019.

It was a news story on TV several weeks back before Cuomo signed the law. They said the times would be extended, the definition of a school zine would change and the thresholds would be lowered. I have not seen it in writing.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 14 14:56:03 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:48:08 2019.

I donít understand why they canít use a conventional traffic light that can be activated by a push button.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Joe V on Tue May 14 15:19:39 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:36:25 2019.

In South Bound Brook, NJ, I have heard from multiple people, including County bus drivers that they will get you for doing 27 in a 25.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 16:40:18 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 14 07:01:17 2019.

I was guessing that there was a school behind the playground after I received the ticket.

I saw the playground as I was passing it, but I could not tell there was a school with it because it was out of my sight. The fact that I was doing 36 had nothing to do with not seeing a school.

If I was going five mph I still would have not seen the school because it was too far from the street. My eyes are on the road where they should have been, not looking off to the left or right.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 15 05:59:02 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 16:40:18 2019.

My eyes are on the road where they should have been, not looking off to the left or right.

That's contrary to the defensive driving practice recommended by the NYS DMV.

"Keep your eyes moving, notice what is happening at the sides of the road, and check behind you through your mirrors every few seconds."

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 06:12:38 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 15 05:59:02 2019.

"what is happening" means pedestrians and cars on the side of the road, etc. It doesn't mean paying attention to the kind of land use.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 06:20:34 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 06:12:38 2019.

If I pass a playground, I try to be aware of the greater likelihood of a child darting out.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 15 11:39:07 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by pragmatist on Wed May 15 06:20:34 2019.

Yes if there are children around. In this case the block was deserted. Not even a pedestrian.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 15 11:40:04 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 06:12:38 2019.

Correct. Especially if that land use is 100 feet away or so from the road.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:09:22 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Mon May 13 20:37:49 2019.

I obviously don't live in NYC, but I don't recall seeing any metered parking on NYC streets, anywhere. Is there metered parking somewhere I've never seen?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:11:14 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Mon May 13 20:41:50 2019.

I believe HAWK signals only enter their "walk" mode when it will not disrupt the traffic flow. In other words, pressing the button to activate the signal does not mean it will change immediately, but rather at the next opportunity that is synchronized with the rest of the traffic signals on that street.

Alternatively, we could just have standard lights at those intersections, but BrooklynBus is opposed to that.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:11:23 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue May 14 07:24:03 2019.

I never thought about that.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:11:35 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 14 14:56:03 2019.

I'd be fine with that, too. Will BrooklynBus?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:12:03 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Joe V on Tue May 14 15:19:39 2019.

From a camera?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:13:25 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 06:12:38 2019.

Right, but BrooklynBus has said on other occasions that his focus on what is in front of him is so important he can't look left or right for things such as pedestrians, cars, or cyclists that might be on the side of the road.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:13:40 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 15 05:59:02 2019.

Excellent post

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:17:15 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 14 06:07:46 2019.

Have I said the cameras are there primarily to raise revenue? Yes, some are set up that way, but others provide a clear safety benefit.

Technically from a legal perspective, you can be ticketed for doing 26 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. In practice, it rarely happens, and if the officer didn't properly calibrate his or her speed gun prior to pulling you over, chances are you're getting off if you bring it to court. It isn't worth the hassle for the officer to write a ticket in that circumstance.

It seems that the problem is you dislike statistics that disprove what you believe. Why don't you contact the NYDN and examine the raw numbers for yourself?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 15 21:03:23 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:09:22 2019.

Most of Queens Blvd
108st in Rego Park
Austin St in Forest Hills

While I can't think of a specific street in Manhattan, NYC DOT has a whole page on metered parking rates with a special section for Manhattan streets, so there must be some somewhere...

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 15 21:07:21 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon May 13 18:47:48 2019.

We need more traffic circles. Some pretty awful intersections in Albany now flow nicely even during rush hour once they converted them to circles. That said, knowing NYC they'd put traffic lights all around the circle making it worse than the standard intersection it replaced.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by pragmatist on Thu May 16 03:03:19 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 15 21:03:23 2019.

There are around 15,000 meters controlling over 80,000 metered spots.
They are less noticeable than before because the individual meters were replaced with one or two per block machines that spit out receipts to put on your dash. They take credit cards as well as cash, and you can also pay for parking with a smartphone app. In parts of Manhattan the meters are for commercial parking only during much of the day.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 16 05:20:52 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 15 21:07:21 2019.

To have a traffic circle without lights you need the yield sign at each entrance to be practical (i.e. you often have to stop to yield but you aren't sitting there all day waiting for pedestrians and traffic within your part of the circle to clear all at the same time). Hard to do in many cases in NYC.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Thu May 16 05:32:17 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:09:22 2019.

See pragmatist's post.

Also, with few if any exceptions, not a single street spot in NYC is legal 24/7. They just about all have a time when there is no parking for street cleaning.

So even if you don't have to pay for a meter, you have to pay with your time to move your car around, and typically sit in it for 90 minutes double parked during the street cleaning time. Those 90 minutes are almost always during regular working hours, so you'd better have a boss who allows flexibility.





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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Joe V on Thu May 16 05:51:44 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 16 05:20:52 2019.

Traffic circles are very bad for pedestrians. They need traffic signals.

First day they put one up in West Windsor, NJ at the south end of Alexander Road, there was a fatal crash.

All roads coming to it effectively get equal preference. Bound Brook, NJ put one in. Not only is it dangerous for a pedestrian to cross the street, it has created huge traffic jams every rush hour.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:05:59 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:09:22 2019.

Are you fucking kidding me?

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:09:37 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Thu May 16 05:32:17 2019.

There are actually many exceptions. Most of Staten Island for one. Outlying outer boroughs. For example, I recall a particular SubChat poster who lived in Manhattan and worked at Kingsborough Community College and stored his car near the Brighton Line east of Ocean Avenue where there is no ASP.

When I worked in Brooklyn I moved my car from an 11:30-1PM ASP to a 9:30-11AM ASP at 11 AM almost every day.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:11:05 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:11:14 2019.

I don't think he's opposed to standard lights that only change when pedestrians press the button as you describe.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:13:39 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed May 15 19:17:15 2019.

Have I said the cameras are there primarily to raise revenue? Yes, some are set up that way, but others provide a clear safety benefit.

The new law at least requires advanced warning and bans them at highway exits. The way it's implemented now is a money grab.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:18:05 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu May 16 05:20:52 2019.

No, you don't. The only reason you do is because Americans don't know how roundabouts work, so they would be confused in the absence of yield signs.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:19:31 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Joe V on Thu May 16 05:51:44 2019.

No, they're not. The only issue is that pedestrians have to deviate from a straight path to cross.

It's only dangerous because drivers don't yield to pedestrians in crosswalks.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:28:23 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:19:31 2019.

It's only dangerous because drivers don't yield to pedestrians in crosswalks.

Like it or not, traffic lights encourage cars to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks.



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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:31:34 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:09:37 2019.

I thought David had to store his car a long way from the Brighton Line.

Agreed, there are still places in NYC where the 9:30 to 11 ASP hasn't filled up long before 11 with cars whose drivers remain in the cars until 11. :)




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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:33:16 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:18:05 2019.

Do all states have laws that say the entering traffic must yield? Not having a sign is asking for trouble in cases where the entering street is much more major than the cross street.



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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:35:24 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:28:23 2019.

Essentially, where stuck with shitty streets to control for the actions of idiot drivers, because our economy would suffer worse if unqualified people didn't have drivers licenses.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:38:48 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:35:24 2019.

we're

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:39:31 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:31:34 2019.

Ocean Avenue is 4.5 short blocks from the Brighton Line. The non-ASP parking begins immediately east of there.

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Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 06:40:03 2019, in response to Re: Will Queens Bus Redesign really speed things up?, posted by AlM on Thu May 16 06:33:16 2019.

Some might not, but they can enact appropriate legislation. It works in England.

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