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| (974964) | |
Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010 The actions of the LIRR in face of hurricane Earl surmount to a General calling retreat when he/she hears the enemy might be comming.Railroads are suppose to be all weather transportation. Canceling the service with no problems reported is nothing but abandoning your post. Mr.Walder should seriously concider accepting or forcing a resignation letter from Mrs Williams. What a way of not runnig a railroad.. Just my $0.02 |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 4 08:33:48 2010, in response to Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010. Your two cents is worth a million. It was ridiculous to inconvenience the entire east end of LI, when there was no problems on the railroad. Stupid. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 08:34:35 2010, in response to Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010. I agree but when you have such a wimpy fleet of undependable diesel engines that's what happens.There was a train stuck in the snow for hours last winter and they got very bad press for that. She didn't want a repeat. She'd rather err on the side of caution. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 08:36:46 2010, in response to Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010. I agree with you 100% between the way she handled the fiasco with the HALL fire, and this on top of how bad the LIRR has been in recent years should get her out. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Sep 4 08:37:41 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 08:34:35 2010. That's a good point and it would have been worse to have passengers stuck in bad weather, although this isn't a great scenario either. I don't think this is an episode that requires anyone to step down.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:39:05 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 4 08:33:48 2010. by forcing her commuters to take the day off, she cost the economy probably a billion or two.She did not save money since crews still need to be paid their runs, yes even if lirr cancels. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:41:49 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Fred G on Sat Sep 4 08:37:41 2010. Fred as railroad president you cancel service when the shit hits the fan, not before the fan starts blowing.for wind and flooding you go as needed and slow down based on conditions. not pre-conditions. |
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| (974977) | |
Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Sep 4 08:45:28 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:41:49 2010. True also, this wasn't some category 5 hurricane but I think the unreliable equipment tips the equation to the cautious side. I concede I have a layman's opinion here.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Sep 4 08:56:50 2010, in response to Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010. The Wrong Island Failroad.....Going No Where!!! |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Sep 4 10:09:16 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 08:34:35 2010. As per the LIRR's own tweets, there was more to the East End servoce cancellations than the reliability of the diesel fleet. With high winds expected, there wwere issues concerning the crossing gates, which I understand were tied in the "up" position, plus the possibility of trees fouling the ROW, and flooding.Williams erred on the side of caution, and although she inconvenienced the customers, imagine the lawsuits if the storm had been as bad as anticipated, and a passenger got hurt or killed by flying debris, or a grade-crossing malfunction... I think Ms. Williams' decision was influenced by lawyers, not weather... |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 4 10:26:28 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 08:34:35 2010. "There was a train stuck in the snow for hours last winter and they got very bad press for that. She didn't want a repeat."Right after last week's switch fire, NO WAY were they going to risk any more bad press. If the tropical storm did hit there, service might have been out all weekend while repairs were made, and yes, passengers may have been stranded. Sorry folks, the world is different today. You don't plan normal service in any and all conditions. Animals do that sort of thing. We're supposed to have brains in our heads that keep us from doing stupid things. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 11:21:46 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 4 10:26:28 2010. stupid things would be normal service.stupider things is no service at all. Even Generals take advise from troops in field. They should have ran trains at reduced spedd as deemed by the experienced crews. Not a pre-emptive shutdown. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Sep 4 13:15:39 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 11:21:46 2010. Monday morning quarterbacking. I did not see any of the comments that they should have run the railroad this weekend on Thursday or Friday when the announcements were made about the cancellation of service. They did what they thought would be the safest for all concerned based upon the weather predictions. What would your comments have been if the storn turned out worse in LI than was predited? What precautions/preparations did any of you take based upon the forecast? If they ran the railraod and stranded passengers due to a downed tree or flooding, the subject line would be the same! |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by 9 local on Sat Sep 4 13:19:39 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:41:49 2010. The dumb thing was not sending the entire diesel fleet out there to get people out of potential danger. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Sep 4 13:24:50 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by 9 local on Sat Sep 4 13:19:39 2010. I don't think the storm was THAT serious; it was cat 2 before it hit nyc even.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:27:44 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:39:05 2010. In fairness to her, the areas east of Speonk and east of Ronkonkoma doesn't have a large number of commuters. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:29:44 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:41:49 2010. I agree but once they leave Jamaica and something happens in the meantime by the time they get out to Speonk now there is a problem on what to do with the riders. Bustitutions may not be available either. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:32:58 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 4 10:26:28 2010. I agree. Amtrak cancelled service from NY to Boston. Are we criticising them too? |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Sep 4 15:33:59 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:32:58 2010. Well- Amtrak cancelled it due to damage to the line... which is a bit different. (Disclaimer: I do not have any issue with how either amtrak nor LIRR handled the situation. ) |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by R30A on Sat Sep 4 15:34:30 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 08:36:46 2010. Hall was handled spectacularly. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:39:09 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 11:21:46 2010. Even with reduced speeds the press and public would be bitching about 2 hour late trains to/from Montauk. Plus if trees were down bwtween stations nwo what? Sorry, but train crews do not cut trees into pieces to get them off the roadbed.Another case in point: last year in a snowstorm a train left Port Jervis late one night, IIRC had downed trees before Otisville, tried to come back to Port Jervis but had more trees down and was now isolated. Weren't they out all night and rescued by a local volunteer fire unit eventually. Also, LIRR riders are not as well behaved as our riders to the north. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:41:26 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by R30A on Sat Sep 4 15:33:59 2010. Yes, I agree that overhead power lines are an issue as well as the ROW in places being right next to water. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:46:49 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 08:36:46 2010. I don't see how they could have handled the Hall fire any differently. A fire there couldn't have happened in a worse location for them. A similar situation/fire happened 5 years ago a Chambers St. A/C/E. They repaired the E switches while A5 between Chambers & Canal on the A/C was o/s for a very long time. It was a miracle LIRR make repairs to all those circuits inside a week.Coming soon: NYS Comptroller DiNapoli bitching about all the overtime at MTA, discounting all that was required at LIRR and buses due to this situation! |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 4 16:00:00 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by 9 local on Sat Sep 4 13:19:39 2010. Montauk is not NOLA. It is not below sea level to begin with. The only dikes down there are sunning themselves on the beach. (☺) AND they are high enough above sea level that the flooding of homes was not likely.
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 16:03:55 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:46:49 2010. "I don't see how they could have handled the Hall fire any differently."They could have handled it way better. LIRR was extremely slow in reacting to the fire the first day. They didn't think of even bustituting until many hours went by, and many pax were stranded (NJT had an issue the next day and immediately had buses up and running and their disruption wasn't even more than 1/2 a day), also in the first few days of the LIRR HALL fire there was lack of communication which many pax had complained about. LIRR does not know how to manage a crisis. I give them credit for getting it back after just a week, but by no means was it really handled right.Quite frankly, everytime there is a hiccup the LIRR fails, and the crews and staff are rude. I can say this as a regular pax of the LIRR, but it comes from top down. The workers aren't happy with mgmt and it shows. Where I work at MNR we have 2 former LIRR employees and they even say the same thing. LIRR needs new mgmt. Helena was an improvement but fell into the status quo and did not handle this right either. Now they shut down the RR for the storm that had already been downgraded a category before getting here? I am not saying run full service, but to run no service?? No, sorry I've seen other RR's operate in similar conditions. "Coming soon: NYS Comptroller DiNapoli bitching about all the overtime at MTA, discounting all that was required at LIRR and buses due to this situation!" Yes, that sadly I agree with, he'll get right on it after he is done frying all NYCT workers for all their wasteful OT and spending of course he won't look at who authorizes it or agreements that MTA signed he will just single out the workers and then the media will sensationalize it and villanize the employees :( |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 16:05:39 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by R30A on Sat Sep 4 15:34:30 2010. I totally disagree, but that is ok. We are all entitled to our opinions. As I said to Bill:They could have handled it way better. LIRR was extremely slow in reacting to the fire the first day. They didn't think of even bustituting until many hours went by, and many pax were stranded (NJT had an issue the next day and immediately had buses up and running and their disruption wasn't even more than 1/2 a day), also in the first few days of the LIRR HALL fire there was lack of communication which many pax had complained about. LIRR does not know how to manage a crisis. I give them credit for getting it back after just a week, but by no means was it really handled right.Quite frankly, everytime there is a hiccup the LIRR fails, and the crews and staff are rude. I can say this as a regular pax of the LIRR, but it comes from top down. The workers aren't happy with mgmt and it shows. Where I work at MNR we have 2 former LIRR employees and they even say the same thing. LIRR needs new mgmt. Helena was an improvement but fell into the status quo and did not handle this right either. Now they shut down the RR for the storm that had already been downgraded a category before getting here? I am not saying run full service, but to run no service?? No, sorry I've seen other RR's operate in similar conditions. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 4 17:27:09 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:41:26 2010. Overhead power lines shouldn't be an issue with a line that has two ways of getting to Boston, and a railroad that has dual mode locomotives that can go into Penn. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 17:28:52 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 4 17:27:09 2010. Only Dual modes Amtrak has, are NY state funded and for Empire service only |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 17:54:17 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Sep 4 17:27:09 2010. also CSX does not await Amtrak with open arms to accomodate them on their B&A route.sufficient notice is required and only a few crews are qualified still over that route. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Sep 4 18:18:48 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:27:44 2010. "In fairness to her, the areas east of Speonk and east of Ronkonkoma doesn't have a large number of commuters."During the summer months they do with alot of commuters headed to the East End for leisure or for work. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:32:34 2010, in response to Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 08:30:57 2010. You do remember that at the time she made her decision that Earl was suppose to be a Category TWO Hurricane by the time he reached anywhere near Long Island, it wasn't until Friday, the day he was suppose to come that he feel apart.And in all fairness, The National Hurricane Center did say that there was a uncertain chance that Earl COULD HAVE HIT Long Island if he tracked just a little seat before he touched North Carolina, I don't know how many of you here could have predicted with 100% accuracy that there wasn't a chance that Earl could have hit Long Island, i doubt there are any, but i believe that the LIIR, and Ms.Williams did the right thing. I know i wouldn't want to ride in a train in an area which could or couldn't be in the path of a hurricane which could possibly kill me. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 4 18:34:55 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:32:34 2010. So, *what* would you rather ride in? A car?
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 18:39:31 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:32:34 2010. in my opinion Bullshit, She shut down the railroad way to early.You don't call it quits till shit hits the fan. not when you think you smell a fart. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:39:55 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 4 18:34:55 2010. If a Hurricane was coming i would be out period. But that wasn't the point i was trying to make, Why put peoples lives in danger by keeping those lines open when there was a chance that Earl could have been worse. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 18:40:55 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:39:55 2010. in my opinion Bullshit, She shut down the railroad way to early.You don't call it quits till shit hits the fan. not when you think you smell a fart. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Sep 4 18:44:09 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:39:09 2010. Once some kids left a bycicle on the tracks at Garwood, and we went over it and the hoses between the first 2 cars uncoupled. So the train was delayed a few minutes while we re-coupled the hoses. A jackass from Westfield demanded that we get fingerprints off of the bike so we can catch the culprits! :-) |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:44:28 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 18:39:31 2010. She was going with the Info she had at the time which was that Earl would be a Cat to when he arrived and about a thousand mile chance that he could have come closer to Long Island. It wasn't until near noontime, yes i was watching the weather, that Earl had fallen apart and its track nearly set in stone.But there was a chance of flooding which it the tracks were close to the water would have been covered with water. Would you really want a train full of people trapped on flooded tracks and casing massive delays because the track is one track going all the way out there because you need a rescue train to reach the stuck one? |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:58:32 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 18:40:55 2010. Well, you believe what you do and i believe what i do.Which was until noon yesterday, i thought Earl was going to be badder then he was. Now you can call me names, and tell me who stupid my way of thinking is/was. It is easy for one to sit here now, after Earl has passed and say that what Ms. Williams did was the wrong thing, but when you Literally have the lives of customers and empolyees in your hand, don't want to do the wrong thing which could cost people their lives. There for at that time the only option there was to shut down those lines. If i was here i would have done the same thing, i would have called it when she did and not reopened it until i knew it was safe. And the reasoning is, because my family comes from a line of volunteer Firefighters, i know that you NEVER put another persons life endanger, not matter what. And if you and anybody else agree with my actions then fine, but at least i know i would go to bed at night knowing that nobody was hurt or killed that day. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 4 19:07:12 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Sep 4 18:44:09 2010. Yeah, right! Like some kid is going to have his fingerprints on file.Bike was probly stolen anyway.
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 19:12:32 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:58:32 2010. Ok having worked for railroad for 26 years and gone out of my way to run on time in snow,wind, rain, etc etc, but since you seem its ok to stay home next time the weathers is foul, I will.Railroads are all weather transportation, let me explain again, the planes flew, the buses ran, the cars ran. Only wimpy MRs Williams shut down her all weather outfit, and 7 hours before the storm was due. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 4 19:13:52 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 19:12:32 2010. I'll bet Meatball Norsk was rolling ... and probably on time too. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Diverging Route on Sat Sep 4 19:14:01 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by R30A on Sat Sep 4 15:33:59 2010. The tree damage occurred at about 2:30pm, well before any effects of Earl were in the area. But the squalls of wind and rain came in during the repairs, hampering the efforts. Amtrak decided to wait until after the bad weather to do the final inspection, which was after midnight. So the Amtrak cancellation of BOS-NYP service was not due to the storm itself, but resumption of service was delayed because of it. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Sep 4 19:19:41 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Sep 4 19:07:12 2010. Yup...I sarcastically told the guy that I left my "gumshoe" at home! :-) |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:46:16 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:44:28 2010. "But there was a chance of flooding which it the tracks were close to the water would have been covered with water. Would you really want a train full of people trapped on flooded tracks and casing massive delays because the track is one track going all the way out there because you need a rescue train to reach the stuck one?" If Earl was as bad as they say there still would have been enough time to suspend service, but doing it pre-emptively was wrong. Not on something that isn't guaranteed (Earl being as bad as it wasn't). |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:49:52 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Mac5689 on Sat Sep 4 18:58:32 2010. I see your points but she acted way too early. Service could have been suspended later after you see how the storm is not for the "chance" and operative word there "chance" I would never myself would suggest putting lives in danger, but she did call it off way too early.I do not think I would fire her over this particular issue by itself but as many said this was just one of the reasons not the only reason. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:50:54 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 4 19:13:52 2010. Yes it was. Even though I am on leave, I heard from my coworkers there and they were running. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 19:52:24 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:46:16 2010. Thats when you trust your crews to make a decision, not some dumb Desk railroader |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:55:43 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Sep 4 19:52:24 2010. Exactly. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by Mr. MTA on Sat Sep 4 20:11:15 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Sep 4 15:27:44 2010. Do you no why it doesn't have a large number of commuters? Because the LIRR treats customers on these lines like krap by providing extremely limited service and canceling trains. Everyone knows that the LIRR wants to get rid of the Greenport branch and they'll take every damn chance they get to not have to run trains. The weather was fine all morning and afternoon and they KNEW that but they still canceled ALL trains. Even the Cross Sound Ferry was running that day. I took the 3pm boat from New London and sea conditions were quite calm. The LIRR obviously didn't do enough research about the hurricane. |
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Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ?? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 4 20:11:21 2010, in response to Re: Helena Williams former LIRR president ??, posted by arnine on Sat Sep 4 19:50:54 2010. Well ... to be fair to the LIRR, the sun wasn't out. :) |
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