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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 20:07:37 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Aug 26 17:33:33 2009. Brian gets to be like a broken record when he can't type out an answer. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 20:09:32 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Aug 26 17:32:37 2009. That he will. But he'll make a link to an earlier quote of his again. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 20:10:55 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Aug 26 16:19:31 2009. There you go again. Too lazy to type out an answer. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 20:14:57 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Edwards! on Wed Aug 26 17:22:13 2009. It's $2.25 to enter the subwayand $5 to enter/exit Airtrain at Howard Beach or Jamaica. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 20:17:07 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Aug 26 17:27:34 2009. When someone is too lazy to type an answer, people just quote themselves. It happened already and will happen again and again and again. So says Brian. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by JohnL on Wed Aug 26 22:01:03 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 23:06:05 2009. So, it costs $5 to get onto airport propertly from Howard Beach. No-one in their right mind would make the trek you described.So Brian is correct. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by JohnL on Wed Aug 26 22:09:02 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by WillD on Wed Aug 26 16:18:48 2009. That's fine, but making it free would lead to complete assymetry in passenger flows.I understand your point, but why is that important to the PA? The airport circulator isn’t free, there is some part of the charge build into the PFC fee on the airline ticket. Unlike Jamaica, no service is being provided off airport property. If the demand is then biased towards Howard Beach, then provide more trains. Then extend AirTrain to La Guardia, where it has the potential to be really useful and run the two airports as one. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 22:54:08 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by JohnL on Wed Aug 26 22:01:03 2009. Believe it or not(and some won't!) some people DO take that trek down North Conduit to Lefferts Blvd for a free ride on Airtrain The things people would do to save $5. And it's $5 to get on Airtrain at Howard Beach. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by terrapin station on Wed Aug 26 23:45:37 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed Aug 26 17:32:37 2009. wrong. it is. someday you'll learn. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Aug 27 00:19:29 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by JohnL on Wed Aug 26 22:09:02 2009. I understand your point, but why is that important to the PA? The airport circulator isn’t free, there is some part of the charge build into the PFC fee on the airline ticket. Unlike Jamaica, no service is being provided off airport property.If the demand is then biased towards Howard Beach, then provide more trains. That is true, but if they're going to provide a financial disincentive to use the Jamaica branch and reduce its ridership down to those for whom the ride via Howard Beach simply isn't worth their time then why bother building the Jamaica branch at all? I feel the regional connectivity provided by the Jamaica to JFK link is potentially vital, but if it were to operate with its current five dollars in what is essentially competition with a free Howard Beach connection the ridership would never justify its construction. Then extend AirTrain to La Guardia, where it has the potential to be really useful and run the two airports as one. I'd love to see that done as well, but I believe the line from Contact was "...why build one when you can have two at twice the price?" I'd be willing to bet the PANJNY could easily build an extension of the line to LGA, and it'd make a lot of sense to do so. It'd make even more sense to run it over to Astoria Blvd to connect to the N and W, and then integrate the fare system to provide some manner of free transfer from the Subway to this new peripheral line across Queens. Unfortunately I don't see them doing any of that any time soon. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 00:37:09 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 25 16:38:23 2009. If the Jamaica branch is $5, I would like to think at least the Howard Beach one is at most $2.25. I do agree that it doesn't seem right that it costs the same for varied distances.The PA should change each side based on distance. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 00:37:22 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 25 16:38:23 2009. If the Jamaica branch is $5, I would like to think at least the Howard Beach one is at most $2.25. I do agree that it doesn't seem right that it costs the same for varied distances.The PA should charge* each side based on distance. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by terrapin station on Thu Aug 27 00:53:50 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 00:37:09 2009. wtf?? they are similar distances! |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 01:39:08 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by terrapin station on Thu Aug 27 00:53:50 2009. If they are similar distance then why are you so pissed off about HB charging $5 then?I would think having HB being $2.25 would be a better compromise? |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 01:44:34 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 01:39:08 2009. I like your idea. After all, the imaginary line at Jamaica is much thicker than the imaginary line at Howard Beach. Thicker imaginary lines call for higher fares. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by terrapin station on Thu Aug 27 01:59:04 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 01:39:08 2009. i think i've made my reasoning pretty clear oh about 20 times in this thread so far. would it kill you to actually read and understand the thread first before replying? |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 02:10:21 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 01:44:34 2009. :) |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 05:30:15 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Grand Concourse on Thu Aug 27 00:37:09 2009. It's PA's transit line.They set their own rule. Either play along with them or find another way to JFK. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 27 07:21:06 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by terrapin station on Wed Aug 26 23:45:37 2009. Nope. Your links to your posts are not proff of anything except your inflated view that you are perfect. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:01:47 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by JohnL on Wed Aug 26 22:01:03 2009. So, it costs $5 to get onto airport propertly from Howard Beach. No-one in their right mind would make the trek you described.So Brian is correct. Yep. Diagram time again. Here's the present situation:  And here are two possible alternate scenarios without a pedestrian toll to get onto airport property:  
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Thu Aug 27 10:13:51 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 23:06:05 2009. with luggage get out of town pay the $5 and stop being cheap |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:47:23 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Aug 26 16:13:14 2009. So what gets in the way of walking out of the parking lot access road onto Aqueduct Road from Howard Beach Airtrain station? That looks shorter than from Lefferts Airtrain. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:54:45 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 01:44:34 2009. I like your idea. After all, the imaginary line at Jamaica is much thicker than the imaginary line at Howard Beach. Thicker imaginary lines call for higher fares.No. Imagine that you do not have $5. If you arrive at Jamaica Airtrain station, you have no way of exiting. If you arrive at Howard Beach Airtrain, you can walk out through the parking lots onto a public street to the north, but not onto a public street to the west. Jamaica Airtrain station has a fare zone. Howard Beach Airtrain station has an arbitrary pedestrian toll for exiting to one street rather than another. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Aug 27 10:58:12 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:47:23 2009. Lefferts is much closer to the. Everything else is fenced in. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:01:48 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:23:18 2009. All fare control exists to collect a fee for crossing an imaginary line. There is no point in the NYC subway that has what could be considered a natural line for fare payment.You're misunderstanding this. A fare control protects a fare zone or paid area. The entire subway system is a single paid area. A toll protects no fare zone or paid area; instead it affects a link. The link in question here is 159th Avenue to Lefferts Boulevard. It is no different from the idea of charging pedestrians to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:06:36 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 08:29:06 2009. If it makes you feel better, they raised the daily parking fee from $15 to $18 at the long term lot.A car usually has four seats. The first day should therefore cost at least $40, or fares should be charged at all stations to Federal Circle. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:10:50 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Wed Aug 26 15:35:52 2009. Poor customers. |
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Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:12:53 2009, in response to Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 11:21:12 2009. Now suppose the LION entered the AirTrain at Howard Beach and got off in Jamaica. Would his fare card remember that he had just paid to get on and let him get off again without a fare deduction?You could be charged $5, $10, or $12.25, depending on which entrance you used at Howard Beach. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 11:15:58 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:54:45 2009. Don't make me send you to the School of Imaginary Lines. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:20:47 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Aug 27 10:58:12 2009. So it's not possible to walk across the triangle of grass next to where Aqueduct Road bends to run alongside the subway? |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:21:56 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 11:15:58 2009. No, it seems that you are the one in need of understanding the difference between a fare and a toll. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 11:24:13 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 11:21:56 2009. Sorry bud, but you've failed to reply to any of my posts correctly.Better luck next time. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 11:41:19 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrai, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 27 07:21:06 2009. The only thing it proffs is that Brian is too lazy to type an answer. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 11:59:34 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:01:47 2009. There is no way to go directly to the parking lot from1) Coleman Square 2) Howard Beach Subway stop 3) Howard Beach Airtrain stop |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:00:05 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:01:47 2009. There is no way to go directly to the parking lot from1) Coleman Square 2) Howard Beach Subway stop 3) Howard Beach Airtrain stop |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:18:01 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 11:59:34 2009. False. You can walk straight out of Howard Beach Airtrain station into the parking lot. You can also walk from the parking lot to anywhere else in North America, but it will take a very long time. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:18:19 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:00:05 2009. And you double posted again. :-P |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:22:00 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:18:01 2009. You can talk all you want about North America.We're talking about Howard Beach. And you can't walk from Howard Beach Airtrain Station to the parking lot. You'd have to take Airtrain to Lefferts Blvd. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:22:41 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:18:19 2009. It happens sometimes. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:25:01 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 11:24:13 2009. Sorry bud, but you've failed to reply to any of my posts correctly.Why don't you stop being an arrogant dick? You might learn something. However much you may dislike Terrapin Station, he is absolutely right on this one. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:34:29 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:22:00 2009. You can talk all you want about North America.We're talking about Howard Beach. Howard Beach Airtrain station is in North America. It is physically walkable to from most other parts of North America without paying any fares or tolls. And you can't walk from Howard Beach Airtrain Station to the parking lot. Yes, you can. It's called Lot C. We've been trying to tell you this for days. Look it up if you don't believe us. You'd have to take Airtrain to Lefferts Blvd. That's Lots A and B, as you would know if you'd just looked at the information that has already been posted in this thread. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 27 12:45:03 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 12:34:29 2009. Free exit to lot C, no access to the Howard Beach SUBWAY station from lot C without going through AirTrain fare control. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Aug 27 12:45:07 2009, in response to Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009. Apparently the price doesn't bother them either.... :) |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Aug 27 12:47:54 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 27 12:45:03 2009. That seems to make sense if Lot C is the Port Authority's lot. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Aug 27 12:48:49 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 10:01:47 2009. What's the rambler's association? |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 27 12:51:28 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by d_mind on Thu Aug 27 11:15:58 2009. Sounds like more fun than the Bog of Eternal Stench. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Aug 27 14:45:44 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Aug 27 12:48:49 2009. Another Britishism, but hey, it's at an airport. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Aug 27 15:32:34 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Aug 27 12:45:03 2009. Free exit to lot C, no access to the Howard Beach SUBWAY station from lot C without going through AirTrain fare control.Which pretty much proves it's a pedestrian toll and not a transit fare. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by terrapin station on Thu Aug 27 19:57:45 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Thu Aug 27 12:22:41 2009. only you and others who don't know how to use the software and hardware correctly, and don't care to learn, and don't apologize for legitimate mistakes. |
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Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by terrapin station on Thu Aug 27 20:42:01 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Aug 27 12:47:54 2009. no it doesn't |
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