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| (825188) | |
Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009 LINK TO ARTICLENEW YORK, NY August 01, 2009 —Now that it's August and summer travel season is kicking into high gear, more and more people are taking the AirTrain. It connects JFK airport to the New York City subway system and the Long Island railroad. As WNYC’s Andrea Bernstein reports, five years after its inception, the AirTrain draws 5 million passengers a year despite confusing signage, insufficient information, and a bumpy transfer into New York’s transit system. Bill Newkirk |
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| (825191) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 07:28:31 2009, in response to Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009. confusing signage, insufficient information, and a bumpy transfer into New York’s transit system.As well as the $5 fee to cross an imaginary line at Howard Beach. |
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| (825193) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 07:36:19 2009, in response to Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009. and a bumpy transfer into New York’s transit systemBumpy? That word does not fit here unless you're talking about the plane ride too. |
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| (825194) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 07:52:13 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 07:28:31 2009. Also at Jamaica Station. |
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| (825195) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 07:53:27 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 07:52:13 2009. LOL |
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| (825196) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 07:57:49 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 07:52:13 2009. LOL. You do know what he means. Right?It's funny seeing employees get off AirTrain at Lefferts, and walk all the way to South Ozone Park, over the Belt with luggage, to their cars or wherever they're going. |
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| (825202) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 08:05:26 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 07:52:13 2009. False. |
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| (825213) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 08:29:06 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 08:05:26 2009. If it makes you feel better, they raised the daily parking fee from $15 to $18 at the long term lot. |
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| (825215) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:41:06 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 07:57:49 2009. I was reminding him that the same people that pay the $5 to cross an imaginary line at Howard Beach have a line like it at Jamaica Station.If employees get off Air Train at Lefferts Station because they parked their cars over there, fine. If they walk over to Aqueduct/North Conduit to catch the subway they won't have to pay $5 to leave Air Train. But they'll have a good walk over there. |
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| (825216) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:42:16 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 08:05:26 2009. Explain. |
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| (825217) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 08:45:28 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:41:06 2009. I don't think anyone is walking all the way from Lefferts Airtrain to Aqueduct for the A train. Many park their car in South OZ, or catch a bus.Brian's beef is that you can get off at Howard Beach Airtrain, walk downstairs, and get in your car without paying for the train. That's where the imaginary line is. Or maybe the imaginary line is before both Lefferta and Howard Beach? |
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| (825218) | |
Embedded Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Aug 25 08:48:21 2009, in response to Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009. |
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| (825221) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Aug 25 08:54:39 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:42:16 2009. Howard Beach has two (non-emergency) exits: One to the long-term parking lot, and another that leads to the subway station and the surrounding Howard Beach community. Only this exit has the fare gates which require people to pay to exit the system. There are two sets of fare gates here. One for those exiting to the Howard Beach neighborhood (where $5 is collected), and another that leads directly into the subway paid zone (where $7.25 is collected). |
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| (825222) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:00:29 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 08:45:28 2009. You mean to say that if one enters/exits Airtrain at the parking lot at Howard Beach Sta., one need not pay the $5? |
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| (825230) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Aug 25 09:07:14 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:00:29 2009. Correct. |
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| (825231) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:09:12 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Aug 25 09:07:14 2009. Thanks. I'll keep it in mind next time the TA runs a Bus Shuttle to Rockaway from H.B. |
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| (825232) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:14:42 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by R36 #9346 on Tue Aug 25 09:07:14 2009. Only if a customer exits Air Train at Lefferts Blvd.There is no way to exit at Howard Beach and go directly into the parking lot. |
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| (825233) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:15:43 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:09:12 2009. When there is a G/O you could.Not otherwise. |
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| (825241) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:36:17 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:42:16 2009. Explain.Wow... The $5 fare at Jamaica is not a $5 fee to cross an imaginary line. |
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| (825243) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:37:37 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:41:06 2009. I was reminding himNo, you were making a false statement, as usual. the same people that pay the $5 to cross an imaginary line at Howard Beach have a line like it at Jamaica Station. No, not the same people, and no, not a line like it. |
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| (825245) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:38:28 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:15:43 2009. Um, when else would there be a shuttle bus? |
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| (825246) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:39:17 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:14:42 2009. Only if a customer exits Air Train at Lefferts Blvd.There is no way to exit at Howard Beach and go directly into the parking lot. That's 100% incorrect, Douce Man. Why do you speak on things you have no clue about? |
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| (825252) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:51:03 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:38:28 2009. What shuttle bus? |
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| (825255) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:54:03 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:39:17 2009. Sorry Brian. In this case I'm 100% correct.There is no way to exit the subway at Howard Beach and go directly into the parking lot. The next time you comeout to Howard Beach, you'll see for yourself. |
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| (825288) | |
Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 10:55:16 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 08:41:06 2009. So If the LION wants to RAILFAN the Airtrain, he could get on at Lefferts Station, ride around the airport, see Howard Beach, and Jamaicaand then back again to Lefferts without paying a fare? ROAR |
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| (825303) | |
Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 11:12:13 2009, in response to Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 10:55:16 2009. You could get on (or off) Air Train at Lefferts or Federal Circle or one of the stations at the airport and it'd be free.The only way you'd have to pay the $5 fare would be in you wanted to exit (or enter) Air Train at Howard Beach or Jamaica. |
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| (825306) | |
Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 11:21:12 2009, in response to Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 11:12:13 2009. Now suppose the LION entered the AirTrain at Howard Beach and got off in Jamaica. Would his fare card remember that he had just paid to get on and let him get off again without a fare deduction?ROAR |
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| (825307) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 11:24:03 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:00:29 2009. Right. You don't pay the $5 to get in the parking lot. But to enter TA property from Airtrain, you have to pay, even if there is a shuttle bus running. |
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| (825308) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 11:25:31 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 09:54:03 2009. But this wasn't what you said in the first place. Go back and read what you originally said. |
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| (825310) | |
Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 11:28:22 2009, in response to Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 11:21:12 2009. No. You would pay to enter at Howard Beach, and you would pay to get off at Jamaica. Total of $10. |
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| (825311) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Howard Fein on Tue Aug 25 11:30:34 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 07:57:49 2009. -and those who want to railfan AirTrain but don't want to pay the $5, or ride the Q3, Q10 or B15 all the way to Terminal 4. It's actually a pretty long walk over the Belt, under the Nassau, and through several signalized intersections- mostly on a very narrow sidewalk. Don't know that I'd want to do that late at night. But people do.This very issue has raised complaints from residents in the community immediately adjacent to the Lefferts AirTrain station- that is, north of North Conduit on either side of Lefferts. The side streets are being parked up, and sleep is disturbed by vehicle owners coming, going, and making noise all night long. Parking restrictions may be next. |
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| (825320) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 11:36:39 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Howard Fein on Tue Aug 25 11:30:34 2009. I figured it would bother the locals. I figured they would just fuck with people's cars instead of formally complaining. I don't think they have alternate side parking in the area. Douceman might know. Adding alternate side parking would help a little bit. |
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| (825321) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Fytton on Tue Aug 25 11:38:15 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Howard Fein on Tue Aug 25 11:30:34 2009. When I railfanned the AirTrain I did just that - came in on a Q10, jam-packed as it happened, then rode the whole AirTrain system without exiting at either Jamaica or Howard Beach. I'd intended to leave the way I came in, but in the end, though, bearing in mind the conditions on the Q10, I decided to cough up the $5 to leave via Howard Beach and the A train. |
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| (825330) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:23:18 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:36:17 2009. Sure it is. All fare control exists to collect a fee for crossing an imaginary line. There is no point in the NYC subway that has what could be considered a natural line for fare payment. At Jamaica you're again paying 5 dollars to cross the imaginary line from the Port Authority property to the MTA property.It is an extremely foolish bit of fantasy to pretend the Airtrain could exist with a 5 dollar fare at Jamaica and a free transfer at Howard Beach. Just in terms of the traffic flow the people would flock to the free HB leg while leaving the Jamaica branch empty. |
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| (825333) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 25 12:30:44 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:23:18 2009. turnstiles on sidewalks! yes they ae all imaginary lines erected by legalised highwaymen. |
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| (825337) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 12:36:52 2009, in response to Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Aug 25 07:22:04 2009. 13,699 passengers a day . . . ? Kinda low for NYC. Imagine how much higher that would be with a direct JFK rail link. |
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| (825340) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by metropod on Tue Aug 25 12:40:12 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 07:28:31 2009. once again, the cheep ass loser is wrong. the PA has every right to decide how and when they will charge for their services. there is no way to get into airport without paying someone or driving yourself. |
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| (825341) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Aug 25 12:42:15 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by metropod on Tue Aug 25 12:40:12 2009. I just have someone drop me off at long term parking thus no fee. |
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| (825345) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by metropod on Tue Aug 25 12:46:53 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by brightonr68 on Tue Aug 25 12:42:15 2009. I think that was designed as a way to cut back on car traffic in the central terminals. they don't charge because the infrastructre wouldn't be worth it. |
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| (825348) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by metropod on Tue Aug 25 12:51:22 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by transitbuff on Tue Aug 25 09:00:29 2009. you pay the fee for using the lot instead. |
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| (825349) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:56:35 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 12:36:52 2009. Any such direct rail link being operated without a multibillion dollar infrastructure investment in Manhattan would shortchange other services. If it were an LIRR branch via the Rockaway line out of NYP then vital peak hour slots from that station would have to be allocated to airport trains which would need to be operated for frequency, not capacity. Conversely if it were a branch off the A train then Far Rockaway, Lefferts, and Rock Park would stand to come out very much the losers if 6tph were dedicated to JFK. And of course with either solution we're faced with choosing between access to Lower Manhattan / Brooklyn and Midtown. Airtrain may require a transfer, but its a convenient one that enables quick access to both destinations in Manhattan, as well as other points in Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island. |
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| (825359) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 25 13:34:55 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 25 12:36:52 2009. Imagine if it didn't have that idiotic fare structure. |
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| (825362) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by brightonr68 on Tue Aug 25 13:41:35 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:23:18 2009. Not really. Most air travelers value time over a few dollars. If the jamaica connection was faster then they would take it no matter a few extra dollars. It costs me on average $35-$40 for a cab ride to JFK from brooklyn(split between 2 guys) The $5 fee is chump change. Long term parking cost $70 last time I used it.Many people on this board just don't have the mindset of 85% of travelers, most are traveling for business, middle income or higher and are looking for the least amount of nonsense |
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| (825376) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 14:27:00 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 11:36:39 2009. I know the area somewhat. But not well enough to know if there's alternate side parking. |
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| (825379) | |
Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 14:33:33 2009, in response to Re: Railfin Airtrain: was: Article: Millions, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 25 11:21:12 2009. If you entered Air Train at Howard Beach and exited at Jamaicaor the other way around, $10 PLUS subway fare of $2.25. |
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| (825383) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 14:37:49 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:36:17 2009. It is just $5 to exit Air Train.Plus additional to ride the LIRR, subway or bus. |
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| (825385) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by daDouce Man on Tue Aug 25 14:40:50 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Aug 25 09:36:17 2009. It is just $5 to exit Air Train.Plus additional to ride the LIRR, subway or bus. |
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| (825420) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 25 16:03:06 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by WillD on Tue Aug 25 12:23:18 2009. I can see it both ways: AirTrain is simultaneously an airport circulator (which are almost universally free) and an airport access railroad (which are almost universally not free).Brian’s point about the $5 to enter the airport property at Howard Beach (you don’t have to get on the AirTrain…) I think is reasonable, though I can also see the Port Authority’s goal to have uniform pricing across the two access points. Personally I would drop all fares and put the AirTrain costs into the PFC portion of the tickets. |
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| (825422) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 16:07:49 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by JohnL on Tue Aug 25 16:03:06 2009. Then how would you stop people from taking AirTrain for free as a short cut between Howard Beach to Jamaica??? |
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| (825431) | |
Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Aug 25 16:38:23 2009, in response to Re: Article: Millions of Passengers Manage to Find the AirTrain, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Aug 25 16:07:49 2009. They shouldn't. Instead, the fare should be equivalent to the local bus fare, and it should be integrated into the city's existing transit system. |
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